Seeking a bit of an advice

[Sivrug]

Hey Ken!

Please keep the bold font! It is much easier for an old fart like me to read! I always thought that using all caps was hollering or whatever.

I think most of your ideas are falling on deaf ears. What we need here is an "Atta Boy" or "High Five" subject where no negative responses are allowed.

[KenC]

[KenC]

Sivrug,

I hear ya!

KenC

[Turboguy]

ken, Perhaps you didn't   jb and Andrewfin did and you said they were 100% correct.

[KenC]

ken, Perhaps you didn't   jb and Andrewfin did and you said they were 100% correct.

Turbo,

Maybe you and your bud, Photo should actually read the posts you are attempting to criticize!  I may agree with jb and Andrew's viewpoint on the fact that a R/W's decision to seek an American husband is initially guided by the thoughts of a better lifestyle, but I never at any time in this thread said that jb was 100% correct.  And if you knew anything about Andrew and my history, you would begin to understand how ridicules the Andrew comment is.  I don't really expect you to know that though.

KenC

[Jet]

It's raining like hell, the wife and little guy are in Russia so I just muddled through all 7 pages of this thread...

JB, KenC, BC, and Andrew have brought up more excellent points than I can count. Ste seems to be the ONLY guy who is not currently living with his wife/fiancee/girlfriend that "gets it" :?  The rest of you won't fully understand the advice you've been given until later, and it's a shame really.

Turboguy, your intentions are noble but I've seen first hand what happens when a guy who doesn't have the resources, wins the girl's heart, gets her over here and runs out of money before she is fully legal and adjusted to her new country of residence - it is UGLY and heartbreaking, and both parties would have been far better off if they had never met and got the relationship started.

For the rest, day to day life with a wife from FSU is like driving a car for the first time. You can read books about it, you can talk to experienced drivers, you can watch others do it, but until you slide into the driver's seat and actually DO IT, you have absolutely no idea what it's like. To think you do is just foolish. So as much as you don't want to hear what's being said by the other married guys, and as much as you think you know better than they do, it's been my experience in the 2 years Liliya and I have lived together, that they are VERY close to being "dead on the mark".

[BC]

ken, Perhaps you didn't   jb and Andrewfin did and you said they were 100% correct.

Perfect examples of miscommunication with native language.

just wait....

[KenC]

BC,

Too funny!  Has it ever occurred to you that a guy's debating skills become much better honed after a few years married to a R/W?

KenC

[BC]

Ken,

Yes, it's a completely different world once you carry her over the threshold.

btw have you ever figured out what traditional is?

[Turboguy]

Jet,  Thanks for the comments.  I am not disputing what jb says.   I respect your judgement a lot and think you are right on with your statements.  

I have seen enough with my gal to know that if she is typical and I think she is, most any American guy will have his hands full with an FSU woman.   That doesn't scare me.   I am sitting here right now going back and forth between here and a friendly (sorta) arguement with her over some stupid tv show she saw last night and that coupled with pre-disrupt your whole life jitters. 

Actully I think jb over a lot of his posts probably paints a fairly realistic picture of what is ahead.   I think I have learned a lot from him since  I started coming here.   I am sure if Luda and I make it ok that his posts will have helped a lot.

I have some friends, such as my buddy in Michigan who may be stretching a bit financilly to do the things they are doing.   Personally I still believe that if someone wants something bad enough they will overcome the pitfalls.   I am not concerned about the financial side of my relationship at all.  That was never the point.  I can afford to do what ever I need to without worrying about it. 

 

[KenC]

BC,

Whatever your R/W thinks should be a tradition!

KenC

[Bruno]

Bruno,

I never sited 4 years as a benchmark for success, but rather as 4 years more experienced than Turbo has.  I wish you the best, Bruno.  I really do.  I do think you need a better balance between your naturally romantic ways and logic though.  You need to take a more practial approach to this and stop wearing your heart on your shirt sleeve.  You are a good guy, Bruno, but if you don't change your ways, you will continue to make the wrong choices and be heartbroken again and again.

KenC

Ken,

Really don't worry about my romantic side... each bad adventure remove some part of them... i work more logic and hard now... and seriously, sometime, i begin tired of these logic... since my return for Ukraine, i have write to almost 500 women and around 50 have write to me... result of the logic, no one was good enough and all to the trashbin... stau actually only two of Bielorussia where i wait some reply but i am not sure that the resultat will be good... i have stop with romantic introduction letter... my first letter is only about what i wish in a woman and for my futur... no more negociation...

Here, on the forum, i don't always react logical... i like the discussion so i try to show the opposite point of view from some... and it is enough easy because no one have the full knowlegde... here, i try to reach some equity in the meaning...

See now these discussion about the financial attraction... all people who have post have right about own meaning... but these individual meaning are only a part of the true... all the post together are a way to the true... several time, the true is between two opposite meaning...

And this quest of the controversial is really a big help for me... during so discussion, my own meaning can change... sometime more "left" or more "right"... i think that newbies make the same proces... the full topic, with opposite meaning allow them to have a personal appreciation who can be between the two opposite...

For RW, the same is true... you have pure logical woman and pure romantic... and you have million who navigate between the two position...  the objective of these discussion is that newbies can make a choice of what they wish and can accept... only so, they will be able to choose the right woman in function of personal selection... Doug is a full romantic and he need a romantic woman... other are more logical and need a woman who can think logicaly... no one man or woman type are bad... they are different... some compatibility is needed for a successful relation... so speaking allow other to know where they in in own logical and make the right choose for THEM...

Some forum are fully negatif, some other are rose story... what make the forum a very good place, it is the difference of meaning between all members... these forum is little, only a little more that 300 member but the content is more rich that several other with 3000 members of more... of course, this difference can lead to some fight but until now, Dan have make good his work of moderator...

Several time, people who post stay on personal position... but you cannot imagine the work it make for a newbies... he is free to navigate between these two extrem... and these extrem become border for him... it is a little like the protection on the side of bridge... they are limit who protect you from the fall...

 

[KenC]

You guys have fun, as I am leaving for Malibu for the weekend with the wifey.  Catch up with yous later!

KenC

[Photo Guy]

jb wrote:
I understood Andrew's post perfectly, and I agree with him, money and a better life style are indeed the prime motovators. You'd have to be smoking crack not to understand this.

Andrewfin wrote:
Any man who thinks these women are not marrying for money needs his bumps felt.

KenC, do you agree with those statements above? I think a lot of us question those sweeping generalizations.

And where does jb get off implying that others are working on a 'shoestring budget'? I agree that this process of finding and marrying and supporting a RW requires more than a shoestring budget and who doesn't agree with that? Having the audacity to appraise the economic situation of people, without seeing all of the facts, is moronic, in my opinion. To make the statement that the endeavor should be carried out with adequate resources is acceptable. What exactly is 'adequate', must be determined by the  couple and not by outside sources, like jb who makes condemning statements like:
'Yep, even to the point of not being able to adequately support the needs of your new bride. My guess is you intend to keep her barefoot and preggers for the next five years. You kill me...  '

I'm sorry, but a remark like that is total bull***t!  If you don't agree with jb, that's what he hits you with. Does KenC agree with jb's implication that a number of members should just take their marbles and go home, and stay away from RW? It's ridiculous. Getting back to the 'needs' of a new bride, -don't those needs vary with each individual, or is that besides the point?  Why imply that Turboguy does not have adequate resources? Do you really know that much about his resources?  How do you look when you make an accusation like that?  Doug

[Turboguy]

Ken, 

This is what you said that you now say you didn't say.

Money and better lifestyle are the deciding factor to even consider a marriage to an American.

That was in the same post with the stick my head someplace and see how well my rose colored glasses work looking out my arse or whatever it was.

Some of the people seem to keep thinking I am trying to get a bride on a shoe string budget and as PhotoGuy mentioned they are assuming too much.   I have made the statement that I was talking hypotheticly.   I also said I could afford to make as many trips to Russia as I wanted and stay as long as I wanted.   Way back in an early post I mentioned exactly what my financial condition was.  If anyone really cares you can dig way back and it is outlined exactly.  My finances are fine.   

[virginiajoe]

GQ Blues,back to your original point,I had 2 young ladies both of who are not engaged tell me I am the nicest,most caring man they have know of.Yet I am still single.I told them both I really appreciate those kind words.They both know about my relations with the Russian women and seem to understand me where as most people around here think I am crazy and lost.It seems that many women around Va Beach are either engaged,married,etc,that is what made me think of a FSU or Russian women for a wife.
I think there are many honest,decent men in this country that are looking for romance not just a party and a brief marriage divorce,etc.Love Walks In,you just don't know when,that Van Halen song still is so special for me even after 1986.

[Timmy K.]

 HELLO EVERY ONE,

Well I decided to talk a little bit about the income thing, and I will tell the truth about my experience with Victoria and we are still writing and we are planning to get married in September or October in Kharkov and do the {DCF} a very good friend I have met through this forum has pointed me in the right direction on this. 

  Yes this is difficult, I am a union carpenter here in the middle of the USA. The average wage for people like me is about $15 an hour with hopefully a few bennies attached. I make a little bit more than $20 an hour with excellent bennies. Average year for me on my wages,$35 k to $40 k plus my insurance and two pension funds.  A perfect year for us guys in this business is about $50 k, no rain outs, freeze outs snow outs ha ha ha and no lay offs between jobs. When I went to Kiev in April I was laid off at the time. It took me abouit 9 months to plan and save for the first trip. I spent alot experimenting with different services from different agencies and blew about $1,000 on ignorance, I only lost $150 on a scammer though. The rest was on personal listings, a ton of addresses which I never did use all of them and a bunch of e- books which later I found out from Bruno that I could have got the same information for free. Then the agency I used was full of little surprises and Bruno knows about a couple of them and I probably could have saved at least a thousand there. From start of this search until I met Victoria last April has cost about $7 k.  Complaining? Absoulutely not. I met the most wonderful woman I have ever known in the entire single life I have lived this last 20 years. Big plus for me, I met a girl who is a common worker like my self in the same type of business, a survivor through tough times even by Ukraine standards. Is she interested in my wallet? Of course she is , she wants to see if I can support her and 1 or 2 future children. Did I write down my earnings and my monthly expenses and show her?  Sure did and her mother and her step father and her brother and her cousin and some of their friends. Is she aware that in the winter months things can be a little tight for us guys in this business? She sure is, she has lived it herself and understands this perfectly well.  Will I take care of her and buy her a car and help her improve her education and do I have a warm and cozy house for her. Yes I can and Yes I will. and Yes I do. I even asked her if we could wait until October instead of September to get married in Kharkov because I could save that much more money for us while our work is in full swing for us guys in this business. She accepted with no problem.  OK  A woking man like myself can make this happen but you have to do your homework, 2 trips a year is maximum. Like I said and like some of my friends have said from this forum, I am a lucky guy to make this happen the first time. I had some down time when I came back, I was supposed to have $2k waiting for me but it was not paid to me and I lost it. It took some hard work to rebound and now I am back on track but I never neglected Victoria, she still got money from me every month about $225 a month plus e- mail expenses and a very nice birthday present for her and a trip to the dentist for her and a electronic dictionary.  Now we are expediting her international passport a little quicker than usual with a little help from a friend from this forum who pointed us in the right direction on this.  The goal is for me to carry her through the front door of this house for Christmas.  She also has 2 new female friends here who want to be friends for her. I have 2  very good female friends here who have supported me on all of this and they want to be Victoria's new freinds. One is married to my best friend and the other is single and used to date another friend of mine. Victoria is overwhelmed with this, she is so exited to know she has new freinds here, of course my e- mail and translation expenses will probably triple but its worth every penny.These two girls are also common workers here in America and this does not bother her, I even sent photos of these two girls on their own Harleys and Victoria is really excited about this. Yes these girls have their own Harley Davidson motorcycles.This is funny, when I was in Kiev, Victoria and I did alot of walking around independence square area, we would check out the little kiosk sales tents and stuff. We came across one that had Harley T shirts with the harley logo written on the back in Ukraine and saying Kiev, Ukraine on them. A big hit here with my riding friends. Now she says Tim now I know why you got the t shirts for us. Well it looks like I'll have to sell my Triumph and get a Harley for us and now she wants her own too but that will be a year or so down the road. She has to learn to drive a car first. I thought I would share this little bit of good fortune with all of you.

 I am having some difficulty with the lady from the agency I used, Bruno knows about this and so does my other friend from here.I questioned this lady from the agency I used on a few of her surprises and some of her business practices and refused to meet about 10 women when I came to Kiev in April. I met Victoria first and we hit it off and that is that. We finally broke away from her about 15 days after I got back and started to use the services of another agency that my good friend from this forum referred me too, in her home town the same one where my good friend met his wife. This guy is excellent and is helping Victoria and I with alot of things like the passport thing, our wedding and apartments and even some work for Victoria and her mother and father if needed. Well this has made the lady in Kiev mad and also the fact that I refused to write a recommendation {testimonial] on behalf of her services which quite frankly if you ask me were very poor and like I said very questionable on a few occasions. Of course I am grateful to have met Victoria but she has been paid and Victoria and I are moving on with out her. We do not need some one in Kiev when Victoria is from Kharkov.  Well this lady thinks I am mean and nasty and has tried to undermine Victoria and I when we were in Kiev, when we were in Kharkov  and now after almost 2 months with out her she has suddenly appeared again raising havoc again. She called Victoria's mother and asked her mother to talk Victoria into breaking up with me, she wrote Victoria a letter saying she had work for Victoria in Kiev but she must do this for free because Victoria owed her for meeting me and then told Victoria to dump me because she could get a more hansome and wealthy man for her and that I was worthless and afew other things. Victoria wrote to me and told me this and Victoria told me not to reply and she loves me and wants this lady to leave us alone and that I am her future husband and no one else. All of this took place this last week. At the same time this lady wrote me a very nice letter saying how much she misses us and so on .  I have not replied to this last incident to the lady in Kiev, I simply do not want to waste my time or energy on her any more.  But I sure would like to  write her a good letter telling her my views on this and it would not be nice.

 Any way I hope this blows over, I am changing a few ways that Victoria and I correspond and hopefully it will eliminate this lady from the picture. Any comments on this are apprciated.

  I would also like to apologize to every one here for not being as active as maybe I should be. Believe me all of you are great and if a person takes his time and reads as much as possible here you can learn alot and pick up some good friends.  I am very busy as a typical carpenter I like home projects and I have a few unfinished ones around here and I have a lady to think about now, the master bedroom is getting a face lift, some carpet is getting laid , a new floor for the kitchen and the rest of the kitchen cabinets and counter tops, a wall is comming down expanding the bath room,the garage I built is getting electricity for real instead of the dropcord I have leading out there for temporary lighting, my patio deck extension is going to be built a step down for a hot tub. I can get a free hot tub from my brother inlaw in Utah. It is used but we refinish it and put new pumps, a heater and plumbing in it. And a few more things. My home is an older one but very straight and study and it is very livable as it is and would probably be OK for Victoria. I am saving some things for her to make decisions on after all this will be her house and she wants to be part of some of the redecorating and such. Even though her education will not do her much good here she does have a lot of talent and almost has her maters in construction management and has a completion{ some degree} in landscaping.

 Well I have probably bored you all to sleep so I'll say bye for now

 

[virginiajoe]

No you have not bored us! It is good to know that not just a rich Donald Trump type of man can get a Easter Euro girl! I hope everything works out,what made you want to take the plunge for a Euro Russian girl? I will admit it is because they look better,I am so turned on by the accent and their sweetness,call me the hopeless romantic,at least I admit it!

[Photo Guy]

Thanks Timmy,
I was wondering what was going on with you two. I'm curious to see what kind of advice you get.

VirginiaJoe,
Sure you can be a romantic. Just don't be too hopeless.
Keep your eyes open.

[Bruno]

[user=71]Timmy K.[/user] wrote:

  Yes this is difficult, I am a union carpenter here in the middle of the USA. The average wage for people like me is about $15 an hour with hopefully a few bennies attached. I make a little bit more than $20 an hour with excellent bennies. Average year for me on my wages,$35 k to $40 k plus my insurance and two pension funds.  A perfect year for us guys in this business is about $50 k, no rain outs, freeze outs snow outs ha ha ha and no lay offs between jobs...

Yep, Timmy is the best example that foreign dating is possible for usual man... of course, the big problem for people like us is the shark from the internet ... since we cannot allow a bunch of trip each year, we need to ready carefully our search and meeting... each misluck is a big delay in our quest...

It took me abouit 9 months to plan and save for the first trip. I spent alot experimenting with different services from different agencies and blew about $1,000 on ignorance, I only lost $150 on a scammer though. The rest was on personal listings, a ton of addresses which I never did use all of them and a bunch of e- books which later I found out from Bruno that I could have got the same information for free. Then the agency I used was full of little surprises and Bruno knows about a couple of them and I probably could have saved at least a thousand there. From start of this search until I met Victoria last April has cost about $7 k.  Complaining? Absoulutely not. I met the most wonderful woman I have ever known in the entire single life I have lived this last 20 years. Big plus for me, I met a girl who is a common worker like my self in the same type of business, a survivor through tough times even by Ukraine standards.

I remember this periode... a lot of e-mail and time for search the right woman... but in any case, your succes is your own work... i have only show you a bunch of different way and give some advice... and yourself, you have find the right path for YOU... of course, you have can spare some money if you have not make some little mistake but i think that you have spare a lot of money by your own search method... you was searching the wrong kind of woman... style top model ... now, you have find a very beautifull one ( too short for be a top model but she is a reduction in size of top model  ), with almost the same job that you... she will be certainly a perfect support when it come about your job... and from your last news, why not think about a personal business together since she show a lot of interest in the American technic of construction... imagine : T&V International wood construction... you can already have some customer in Ukraine... :D:D i was joking but all is possible :cool:

Is she interested in my wallet? Of course she is , she wants to see if I can support her and 1 or 2 future children. Did I write down my earnings and my monthly expenses and show her?  Sure did and her mother and her step father and her brother and her cousin and some of their friends. Is she aware that in the winter months things can be a little tight for us guys in this business? She sure is, she has lived it herself and understands this perfectly well.  Will I take care of her and buy her a car and help her improve her education and do I have a warm and cozy house for her. Yes I can and Yes I will. and Yes I do.

Here we can see the difference between woman who ask a rich man and these who ask a man financialy secure... yes, several woman will a better situation... but they wish security and stability... Tim have these stability with the union carpenter... in my case, i am simple gardener but i work for state with a life contract... holiday, ill, bad weather, ... i am always pay the same amount... better, i am pay twice for my holiday ... several insurance are pay by my job... by example, hospital is pay back at 100%... yes, sometime we have not a lot of cash but some other advantage allow us to spare a lot of money... Ken have speak about people who stay with 200$ for life after tax, insurrance, ... i earn only 1300 euro month... tax already pay by boss... home, food and expense is around 500 euro month ... so, if i don't go out, i can spare 800 euro month... enoug for a meeting each 3 month... unfortunaly, my big problem is more the time, only 6 week holiday in the year... same problem for rich people... several say me that time is money and they find that these process use a lot of time... time is really the very big one problem for everybody...

... I am having some difficulty with the lady from the agency I used... I met Victoria first and we hit it off and that is that. We finally broke away from her about 15 days after I got back and started to use the services of another agency that my good friend from this forum referred me too... Well this has made the lady in Kiev mad ... Of course I am grateful to have met Victoria but she has been paid and Victoria and I are moving on with out her... She called Victoria's mother and asked her mother to talk Victoria into breaking up with me... and then told Victoria to dump me because she could get a more hansome and wealthy man for her and that I was worthless and a few other things.

Tim, you have use these agency only for have contact with woman... you don't need to pay for service that you have not receive... i remember the problem about translator... when she have ask to pay for 2 week since you have need the service only a few day... same the more hard people here go say that you have make the good move to break with the agency... since you don't need it anymore... several agency don't wish that man marry... it is a customer who dissappear... for some, the number one lady is these who have meet and date the more man... sorry, but for me, so lady is the last number... a professional dater without real intention to marry... so, now, the agency is not happy, they have hope take more of your money and it is not working... and now, they try to break your relation... and these 5000$ for the owner of agency escort your future wife to USA is the more big visa scam organized by the owner of a agency... don't pay one more cent to them... 

  I would also like to apologize to every one here for not being as active as maybe I should be. 

No being active ??? I think the reverse... you are busy with the second part of the process... ready a marriage and bring your bride to USA... and after this, come the last one part, the integration process... maybe not the last... later, you can maybe will busy with children ... maybe in some year, when all the big work will be finish and you have a little more time, you can publish some post with your experience... but now, use your time for yourself and Victoria... you have always a lot of work to make...

PS : It seem that my best advice to you was to invite your on these forum... you have find some friend who help you actively in the actual process... Dan can be happy, these forum have help almost directly Timothy to organize his marriage... this give a great value to RWD...
 

[BC]

Ken,  

This is what you said that you now say you didn't say.

Money and better lifestyle are the deciding factor to even consider a marriage to an American.

That was in the same post with the stick my head someplace and see how well my rose colored glasses work looking out my arse or whatever it was.

Turbo,

When you quote someone you should try to quote it in context.. why did you decide not to include the sentences that followed in Ken's post?

[/quote]Money and better lifestyle are the deciding factor to even consider a marriage to an American.  And I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing either.  It is human nature.  Men are attracted to good looking women and women are attracted to good providers.  Hopefully there are other criteria involved in the selection process, but they all come second after the initial needs are met.

[Turboguy]

No particular reason.   If you quote a whole bunch of words then the point you are trying to make gets lost.    He said that he had not said those particular words.

I think this arguement is not worth the time and effort we are putting into it.  jb belives you can not do this on less than $ 65,000 a year or so.   I think if someone wants to do it bad enought that is not going to stop them.   Timmy and Bruno are examples.   There are a lot more examples of people doing it on less and I personally don't think it will create that much of a problem for them.   I also think that money is not equal.   $ 65,000 a year in San Francisco or NYC is poverty level.  In Iowa (or Beaver Falls) you can live like a king. 

The other part of this arguement is about the importance of money and status to a Russian woman.   We are really just spitting out a bunch of verbage over a degree of relevance.   They are saying it is 99% of the motivaiton.  I am saying it is 75-80%.  Who really cares and what does it matter.    To me, if you think all the Russian women want is money it is demeaning to them.   I tend to respect Russian women a lot.  If that is bad.  I apologize.

[BC]

Turbo,

I believe what is being said is:

1. It takes a lot of disposable income (whatever the gross is)

2. The risks increase proportionally with less time spent together beforehand.

3. What's the motivating 'dream' a RW is seeking when signing up with an international marriage agency? Of course a better and secure life is at the top of the list. Not uncommon among any women.. Everyone looks for a step up.

4. Her point of view will change after she arrives and adjusts. The thrifty minimalist you met will very very likely not remain so and will re-evaluate her 'position' among her new peers.

5. Don't put her in the position where her overall 'quality of life' is less than it was back 'home'.  Many aspects such as loss of friends and family, language probs and limited trips home etc. weigh into the quality of life equation and have to be made up for elsewhere. Endless hours alone on a comfortable couch and TV won't hack it.

All not unreasonable imho.  Remember 2, 3, 4, and 5 usually require increased #1.

[Turboguy]

I will vote for that.   It sounds if not perfect, as good as anyone could work out.  You were not one of the drafters of the constitution in a previous life were you?

[BC]

I will vote for that.   It sounds if not perfect, as good as anyone could work out.  You were not one of the drafters of the constitution in a previous life were you?

No Turbo, but surviving intact (so far) has required tenfold more thought, reflection and effort (much within myself) than any relationship experienced before. Keep in mind that I have lived with many different cultures throughout my life and most of my relationships were with international women.

Not to say I am better than any man here, just that without my prior experiences and insights from tough talkin' folks here I would be very lost now.