Just another example of why I am no longer interested in AW ...

[Simoni]

I just posted this link a month ago that listed Mississippi the fattest and Alabama, #2. Colorado has the leanest people.

http://calorielab.com/news/2006/08/12/fattest-states-2006/

hmm.... guess that is scientific and correct.  But seems to me the fattest girls I have seen are in new england....lots of blubber for cold winters :-)

[Misha]

hmm.... guess that is scientific and correct.  But seems to me the fattest girls I have seen are in new england....lots of blubber for cold winters :-)

And the men? It seems we comment about the "fattest girls" but in fairness we should remember that the United States is not a nation of Jack Sprat's and their overweight/obese AW. For every "fat girl" there is in all likelihood a "fat guy."

[Mishenka]

This is a alarming,

Nearly 119 million American adults, 65 percent of the population, are currently overweight or obese. The direct and indirect costs of obesity in America are more than $117 billion per year. Since states and the federal government have a crucial role to play in fighting the obesity epidemic, TFAH conducted a study of government action. TFAH concluded that America does not have the aggressive, coordinated national and state strategies needed to address the crisis, and that threatens to make the epidemic worse.

"The added weight of the obesity epidemic to our already ailing health system is causing it to burst at the seams. Americans' growing waistlines are leading to escalating disease rates and costs," said Shelley A. Hearne, DrPH, Executive Director of TFAH. "While personal behavior is at the center of maintaining healthy levels of diet and exercise, there is so much more the government can and should be doing to address the obesity crisis."

[mspanky]

An the men? It seems we comment about the "fattest girls" but in fairness we should remember that the United States is not a nation of Jack Sprat's and their overweight/obese AW. For every "fat girl" there is in all likelihood a "fat guy."

 There are no fat guys in the U.S.  Because fat  guys don't call themselves fat. They call themselves BIG and the fat is'nt fat,it's muscle. Geez!!!

  But seriously, fat American men are in full denial. Few will admit to being fat. I never realized the proportions of obesity in American society that till I began travelling and talking with FW who were easily able to  identify AM from European men.  They  knew the fatter guys had a greater chance of being American than anything else.

   That's why I try to keep myself fit. I think many women would rather marry an older man who keeps himself in shape and fit rather than one who does not have the discipline to stay fit. Fat is not attractive to FW at all.

[USCFAN]

WOW ... interesting to see this thread get some legs 

Totally correct.  For you guys in the search, Marina appreciated me because I was positive.  She shares that before meeting me, whenever she met a negative man who trashed american women, she ran from them as fast as possible. Cuz if you are negative about american women, you may be about FSU women, too.

I agree with you bud ... and other posts along this vein.

Perhaps as the person who started this mess, I should chip in with a little more info from my side.

* I would guess that 99% of the members here are men.
* I would guess that 60-70% of the members here are from the USA.

So you could say that this thread was started toward a 'major target audience' here 

In my conversations with many AM about this subject, they have all made disparaging comments about the 'attitude' of AW these days. It just so happens that I'm the brave soul (joking) to post this on a message board. So my thoughts, while mirrored by many, many other AM, left myself open to scrutiny. So be it.

Remember, this was not intended to necessarily be a 'fat AW' thread but more of the 'attitude' of many AW these days. And that 'attitude' is even worse among women with weight issues.

When conversing with a RW either in person or a letter, when talking about my search in the FSU for a partner, I ALWAYS point to the positive things I have heard, read or experienced in meeting RW. Once again, KenC's post a few pages back making some comparisons between RW and AW are spot on.

But, the next question is usually "what about AW"? Then, I honestly tell them about my feelings toward the majority of AW (not all). But I don't spend hours 'bashing' AW. A few simple points, tactfully shared, gets my point across and they understand and generally agree as they have heard many of the same comments from other AM.

[USCFAN]

Anastasiya, please forgive my typo, from the Dr. Phill show post, it should read that 40% of all American women are NOW reporting abuse in the home.  which backs up some of my previous posts that others have argued against as not factual.  It now actually is reported as fact. True in some states as in California, women are better protected.

Misha

Respectfully Misha ... DR. PHIL has one audience ... the same as Tyra Banks, Oprah and any other afternoon talk show ... American women sitting home watching this 'drivel' and having their collective ears tickled with what makes ratings and makes men look bad.

Any 'facts' reported from any of these sources has to be taken with more than a 'grain of salt' ...

[mspanky]

The grass is alwasy greener. I avguely remember some RM on a message board named PrinceLion and another RM who'se name escapes me have the same issues with RW.

[ISORW]

Do some research on the web and you'll see that Dr. Phil is guilty of either lying or grossly exaggerating some numbers here...Mishenka, you need to do some better research as well .  In this site http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html, I quote:

BATTERING. Although only 572,000 reports of assault by intimates are officially reported to federal officials each year, the most conservative estimates indicate two to four million women of all races and classes are battered each year

If we take these reported numbers, then it is 0.3% of women (if we assume that half of the 300 million residents of the US are women, a fair assumption IMHO) who are the subject of DV (assault by intimates).  If we use the upper estimated number, say 3 million (averaging 2 and 4 million) we arrive at a rate of 2% - a FAR FAR cry from 40%.  If it was 40% we'd see women getting the cr*p beat out of them on every city street, dozens on every block in the suburbs.  The fact is they don't.  I've never done it, my 4 brothers have never done it.  My best friends to my knowledge have never done it to their wives.  We'd have the emergency rooms spilling over with 40% of 150,000,000 women (approximately 60 million women, which is about 164,383 women per day, or 3,287 per state per day.  I don't think so Dr. Phil...besides I never thought much of Dr. Phil anyway...

[rose]

Scanning the last posts about the increasing number of reported assaults by AW and combining it with the title of the thread one might to the conclusion that AM don't like AW because AW report assaults, while RW do not.

[Mishenka]

Respectfully Misha ... DR. PHIL has one audience ... the same as Tyra Banks, Oprah and any other afternoon talk show ... American women sitting home watching this 'drivel' and having their collective ears tickled with what makes ratings and makes men look bad.

Any 'facts' reported from any of these sources has to be taken with more than a 'grain of salt' ...

I may not have made it clear that this reported abuse in the home includes child abuse, not only spousal abuse.  Spousal abuse goes both ways.   these facts are taken from police records so I would not take them with a grain of salt.  All one has to do is spend 24 hours at any childrens hospital in America and it will change your attitude forever on child abuse in the home.  Arrests are typical on the night shift.  After spending 10 years as a marriage family councillor I have my own figures on this subject, Mine are much higher than Dr Phil's.  Abuse comes in all kinds of packages, not just physical.  Mental abuse causes more permanent damage. Child abuse,, there is no excuse for.  I don't sit and watch Dr. Phil but he does seem to hit the nail on the head when I do hear him. It's not his audience that gives him credibility, its his experience and training. it's typical that working as Dr Phil does you are going to hear about it often are more sensitve to it.

Misha

[Mishenka]

Do some research on the web and you'll see that Dr. Phil is guilty of either lying or grossly exaggerating some numbers here...Mishenka, you need to do some better research as well .  In this site http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html, I quote:

BATTERING. Although only 572,000 reports of assault by intimates are officially reported to federal officials each year, the most conservative estimates indicate two to four million women of all races and classes are battered each year

If we take these reported numbers, then it is 0.3% of women (if we assume that half of the 300 million residents of the US are women, a fair assumption IMHO) who are the subject of DV (assault by intimates).  If we use the upper estimated number, say 3 million (averaging 2 and 4 million) we arrive at a rate of 2% - a FAR FAR cry from 40%.  If it was 40% we'd see women getting the cr*p beat out of them on every city street, dozens on every block in the suburbs.  The fact is they don't.  I've never done it, my 4 brothers have never done it.  My best friends to my knowledge have never done it to their wives.  We'd have the emergency rooms spilling over with 40% of 150,000,000 women (approximately 60 million women, which is about 164,383 women per day, or 3,287 per state per day.  I don't think so Dr. Phil...besides I never thought much of Dr. Phil anyway...

Because of this mentality we have such ignorance in America.  This is 2007. Get educated! do research??? Hello I spend my life doing reasearch. Get off the internet and welcome to reality.  Speak to people face to face in a private councilling session!.  60% divorce rate in America, Higher Divorce rate in second marriages, Getting very close now to 100 % divorce rate in your lifetime!!!!

Hello, testing 1,2,3, can you hear me now,,, How many of these 60% of divorces have not experienced some form of Spousal abuse in either direction or child abuse????  I rest my case.

[Mishenka]

Do some research on the web and you'll see that Dr. Phil is guilty of either lying or grossly exaggerating some numbers here...Mishenka, you need to do some better research as well .  In this site http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html, I quote:

ISORW, sadly your web page is 13- 15 years out of date, look at their sources at the bottom of that page-
SOURCES:

"Violence Against Women: A National Crime Victimization Survey Report", U.S. Department of Justice, Washington, D.C., January 1994.
"The National Women's Study," Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center, Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston, SC, 1992.
"Five Issues In American Health," American Medical Association, Chicago, 1991.
Bullock, Linda F. and Judith McFarlane, "The Birth Weight/Battering Connection," Journal of American Nursing, September 1989.
McFarlane, Judith, et. al., "Assessing for Abuse During Pregnancy," Journal of the American Medical Association, June 17, 1992.
Federal Bureau of Investigation statistics, 1992.
Sheehan, Myra A. "An Interstate Compact on Domestic Violence: What are the Advantages?" Juvenile and Family Justice Today, 1993.
Sherman, Lawrence W. et al. Domestic Violence: Experiments and Dilemmas, 1990.
A study of five cities -- New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Boston and Minneapolis -- by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, published in 1992.

Misha-  does do his research


 

[ISORW]

You know Mishenka you are very fond of extending your personal experience as statistics...just as in another thread about rape where Billy B. asked you over and over again for creditable sources you never produced a single statistc.  So you're saying that somehow in 12-15 years the amount of abuse jumped up from .03% to 40%???

And as far children abuse to be honest I think you are full of sh*t.  What does child abuse have to do with AW and RW???  And if so many children get abused, why is it that I've NEVER seen the numbers of child abuse approaching what you claim?  If we subtract the 3% or so of women abused, that leaves 37% of all children abused, which means 1 out of 3 of my friends were abused as kids and of my 3 nieces and nephews one is getting abused as we speak.  Again <cough> bullsh*t.  Stop making up statistics from your own experience.  You are pulling stuff out of your arse in every post you make.

It's obvious when you say do research you mean what of my personal experience can I extrapolate to the entire United States population...I cited actual studies, I have only heard you cite Dr. Phil (a noted authority in...NOTHING) and your own experince. Billy B and I are STILL waiting for you to quote actual verifiable sources.

[USCFAN]

Misha - How in the world did this thread become a 'abuse' thread? This thread was about me (and other AM) not being interested in dating AW ... not child abuse

If you want to address that issue ... why don't you start another thread.

BTW ... Dr. Phil is a creation of the media ... He was a pet project of Oprah and put on TV for the reasons I mentioned before ...

[ISORW]

After spending 10 years as a marriage family councillor I have my own figures on this subject, Mine are much higher than Dr Phil's. 

Misha

If you spent 10 years as a family counselor (it's funny that you were a counselor but yet you cannot spell  your own profession...did you business cards read Mishenak, Family Councillor???) how was it that you could not even recognize until much later that the RW you were with was not that serious about you...that you were indeed only friends?  Yet you somehow thought it was the romance of your life...where were your marriage counselor skills during that relationship?

[ISORW]

Because of this mentality we have such ignorance in America.  This is 2007. Get educated! do research??? Hello I spend my life doing reasearch. Get off the internet and welcome to reality.  Speak to people face to face in a private councilling session!.  60% divorce rate in America, Higher Divorce rate in second marriages, Getting very close now to 100 % divorce rate in your lifetime!!!!

Hello, testing 1,2,3, can you hear me now,,, How many of these 60% of divorces have not experienced some form of Spousal abuse in either direction or child abuse????  I rest my case.

First if you spend your life doing research, can you please quote the case studies, etc that you were involved in?  I'd really like to know and if you actually can quote these and show me sources, I will respect your opinion...

However, in my own experience with friends who are divorced, numbering about a 2 dozen, NONE involved abuse either way...so can I extrapolate my "research" and "study" to say that 100% of all divorces do not involve abuse??? Well if I use the Mishenak Methodology it will be valid to extrapolate these numbers to the entire USA in 2007...

[Mishenka]

Misha - How in the world did this thread become a 'abuse' thread? This thread was about me (and other AM) not being interested in dating AW ... not child abuse

If you want to address that issue ... why don't you start another thread.

BTW ... Dr. Phil is a creation of the media ... He was a pet project of Oprah and put on TV for the reasons I mentioned before ...

Sorry, USC, I didn't realize this thread was all about you,  thanks for clearing this up for me.

I already started and ended another thread about this subject,  you quoted from it yourself. It's a dead thread.  

How do threads get hijacked?

This happens when people like you and aparently many others try to pick apart my posts, take things totally out of context and read them wrong. The you post your argument or objection because of misunderstanding.  Try reading them with clarity and an open mind and forget the old news from 15 -20 years ago and realize we live in a different time where abuse in the home has doubled as the population has increased.  You somehow create this .03 % out of the sky  with some math you came up with that has nothing to do with reported stats.  In a word,  nonsense.  Again,  I rest my case.

[Mishenka]

First if you spend your life doing research, can you please quote the case studies, etc that you were involved in?  I'd really like to know and if you actually can quote these and show me sources, I will respect your opinion...

However, in my own experience with friends who are divorced, numbering about a 2 dozen, NONE involved abuse either way...so can I extrapolate my "research" and "study" to say that 100% of all divorces do not involve abuse??? Well if I use the Mishenak Methodology it will be valid to extrapolate these numbers to the entire USA in 2007...

Sure, you show me proof that your 12 friends divorces had no abuse in the home, and I will show you my written logs of who walked in my door for marriage and family counselling. How many were having affairs, (7 out of 10) There are always two sides.  Have you ever heard of patient and client privilege,  legal privacy?  No. your friends are not going to admit to any possibility of abuse in their homes. No mental manipulation, no heated or violent arguments, certainly no hitting the kids, or the wife hitting on the husband, and vise versa.  I can just imagine your buddy embarrassing himself by saying my wife beat my face last night during one of our fights. NOT. It has a stigma to it that will not change.  I'm giving you a figure of reports that are common among professionals

[USCFAN]

Misha ... seriously ... you really need to get over yourself 

First of all ... when I even began interacting with you on this thread ... I said 'respectfully' ... I was trying to be polite ... you're the one that that is getting his dander up ...

Second of all ... the thread wasn't all about me ... though I started it. The THEME was AM not being interested in dating AW ... look at my other post and you see (and other AM)

Third ... I don't know what thread your talking about starting ... but I have never quoted you before this particular thread

Fourth ... I haven't picked you apart about anything other than your blind loyalty to Dr. Phil ... your argument about picking you apart should be with ISORW ... not me. Show me where I mentioned ANYTHING in this thread about statistics like .03%

[rose]

Please, explain me why don't you like AW:
a) because they report when AM abuse them or their children;
b) because they abuse AM;
c) because you know that anyways you'll end up in divorce;
d) because AW are not the only child in the family (or this was in the another thread...)
Did I forget something else?...

[Mishenka]

I haven't picked you apart about anything other than your blind loyalty to Dr. Phil ... your argument about picking you apart should be with ISORW ... not me. Show me where I mentioned ANYTHING in this thread about statistics like .03%

Obviously I meant that .03% for ISORW, sorry about that.  Im over it,  You can search the threads yourself. Lets get it back on track.
It's late, Im off to bed.
Gnight.

[Misha]

This happens when people like you and aparently many others try to pick apart my posts, take things totally out of context and read them wrong. The you post your argument or objection because of misunderstanding.  Try reading them with clarity and an open mind and forget the old news from 15 -20 years ago and realize we live in a different time where abuse in the home has doubled as the population has increased.  You somehow create this .03 % out of the sky  with some math you came up with that has nothing to do with reported stats.  In a word,  nonsense.  Again,  I rest my case. [/b]

Here is the problem: how do you define abuse?

The Office on Violence Against Women (OVW), http://www.usdoj.gov/ovw/domviolence.htm, defines abuse as follows:

"Domestic violence can be physical, sexual, emotional, economic, or psychological actions or threats of actions that influence another person. This includes any behaviors that intimidate, manipulate, humiliate, isolate, frighten, terrorize, coerce, threaten, blame, hurt, injure, or wound someone.

* Physical Abuse: Hitting, slapping, shoving, grabbing, pinching, biting, hair-pulling, biting, etc. Physical abuse also includes denying a partner medical care or forcing alcohol and/or drug use.

* Sexual Abuse: Coercing or attempting to coerce any sexual contact or behavior without consent. Sexual abuse includes, but is certainly not limited to marital rape, attacks on sexual parts of the body, forcing sex after physical violence has occurred, or treating one in a sexually demeaning manner.

* Emotional Abuse: Undermining an individual's sense of self-worth and/or self-esteem. This may include, but is not limited to constant criticism, diminishing one's abilities, name-calling, or damaging one's relationship with his or her children.

* Economic Abuse: Making or attempting to make an individual financially dependent by maintaining total control over financial resources, withholding one's access to money, or forbidding one's attendance at school or employment.

* Psychological Abuse: Causing fear by intimidation; threatening physical harm to self, partner, children, or partner's family or friends; destruction of pets and property; and forcing isolation from family, friends, or school and/or work."

Using this definition of abuse, it is possible and quite easy to come up with a statistic that 25% of women will be abused over the course of their lifetime. The  OVW website enditnow.gov (http://www.enditnow.gov/dv/am_tipsheet.html) cites the fact that 1 in 4 women will be abused in their lifetime based on the OVW definition of abuse. It should not come as a surprise that 25% of women are abused given the relatively broad definition of abuse, rather it is shocking that 100% of women did not claim to be abused at once in their lifetime. How many women have not been shoved at least once in their lifetime? How many women have not been called a name at least once in their lifetime? 

[USCFAN]

Please, explain me why don't you like AW:
a) because they report when AM abuse them or their children;
b) because they abuse AM;
c) because you know that anyways you'll end up in divorce;
d) because AW are not the only child in the family (or this was in the another thread...)
Did I forget something else?...

Hello Rose ...

I would suggest you go back to the very beginning of this thread and read the first 4-5 pages. I still have no idea ... well I do but I'm being nice ... how the topic of 'abuse' was brought into this discussion.

You'll read in my posts (before this little board tug-of-war with Misha) that my interest in AW has basically gone away because of many have a selfish, materialistic, shallow, feminist attitude ... and it seems to get worse with AW who have weight issues. This thought is becoming more common among AM that I talk to. Many of us have learned to appreciate the positive qualities of RW compared to AW and that is why we have begun our search overseas for a good wife.

I can see how you might have gotten confused. Once again, this thread originally had NOTHING to do with any kind of abuse ... spousal or child.

Have a nice day Rose ...

Steve

[USCFAN]

BTW ... excellent post gabaub ... 

[Mir]

Gabaub

I am not taking anyone's side in this argument but just putting things in context. Looks like you conveniently omitted some parts of the publication that did not suit the argument you wanted to make. Here is that part:

'Domestic violence can be defined as a pattern of abusive behavior in any relationship that is used by one partner to gain or maintain power and control over another intimate partner.

Domestic violence can be physical, sexual, emotional, economic, or psychological actions or threats of actions that influence another person. This includes any behaviors that intimidate, manipulate, humiliate, isolate, frighten, terrorize, coerce, threaten, blame, hurt, injure, or wound someone'

Please note the important thing is a pattern of abusive behaviour and not an isolated act like one shove in 20 year relationship or some name calling in a heated argument now and then.
Most men and women will drink alcohol but the majority will not be considered alcoholic (an analogy)