Just another example of why I am no longer interested in AW ...

[Serebro]

Why does a woman in Ukraine have to be American to understand English?  My g/f was born and raised in Ukraine and she is fluent in English as is her best friend.

You didn't get the point. I am kidding...


USCFAN, you seem to be a very intelligent person with a high IQ level, so it looks like I need to repeat the question for you:I am from FSU and I speak English , you say that my English is limited and that's why I am sure that you are primitive and a loser, why do you think that any woman who is from FSU will think that you are a noble and intelligent man after your saying mean things about AW?

[Misha]

Why does a woman in Ukraine have to be American to understand English?  My g/f was born and raised in Ukraine and she is fluent in English as is her best friend.

Does your g/f live in the USA or another English-speaking country? If she does, how long has she been living there? I know people who reached high levels fluency studying English in Russia, but it was still a second language and they were not able to fully understand everything until they lived for a while in Canada.

[USCFAN]

Serebro ... for a young woman from Russia, I think you have very good English. When I say it is 'limited' I mean that within the English language there is often more meaning behind what is said or written than just the words used.

In the case of the woman's ad I mentioned at the start of this thread, what came across from her words that bothered me was the 'ATTITUDE' expressed. That 'ATTITUDE' that I described in my other posts in this thread. I don't think you fully understood that ... much in the way if you told me something in Russian and I didn't fully understand the meaning behind it. You thought I was concentrating on the weight issue. I was concentrating on the growing spoiled, selfish, me-first 'ATTITUDE' that is becoming more and more popular within the women in American culture.

I don't spend my time 'trashing' AW. But when I am asked by a RW why I am searching the FSU for a mate instead of here in America, I am completely honest with them and they appreciate that. While there are good women in every country, my experience with AW over the last couple of years has led me to look elsewhere for that special someone. Every single woman has understood me and they themselves have expressed what disappoints them about the men from their country. When they tell me that most the men they have dated are rude, drunks, bad husbands, etc ... I don't take it wrong. They are just telling me how they feel and what they have experienced.

Just to illustrate my point ... If you go to a restaurant and have bad service or the food is terrible, and then someone asks you "did you like it?" ... what do you tell them? Do you 'hide' your feelings because you don't want to 'trash' the restaurant ... or are you honest about your experience?

Hopefully, after reading this, you will better understand what I was trying to say. If not, can I at least suggest that the 'name-calling' is unnecessary? I don't expect everyone to agree with me ... or with anyone else for that matter. But maybe the posts from here on out can be more constructive instead of attacking ...

Have a good day,
Steve

[Mir]

Steve

Certainly the misunderstanding here is what we can have in a WM-RW relationship
To me it looks as Serebro did not call you a looser or anything else, what she wrote is that when a WM contacts a RW and tells her that the reason he is looking for a RW instead of a woman in his own country is that the women in his contry are fat, ugly etc. then the RW will think that this man is vain and a looser.
Since you don't do any such thing you are not a looser.

However it is one of the first questions that RW/FSUW ask when WM conact them.'Why are you looking for a Russian wife? Why can't you find one in your own country?' I am sure there are a many different reasons given by men, I find it hard to imagine that there is any answer to this question that does not give off some odour of desperation to the women
KenCs approach is perhaps better, to make it clear at the start that one is not fixated at finding a wife in FSU but wants to start the relationship with an open mind and see what develops. However many FSU women might think that this man is not serious and just playing the field and will be put off.

[Globetrotter]

Wow, reading this one page says magnitudes!!!  It says just how easily one AM and RW can totally misunderstand each other...one's intentions, one's humor, the meaning or sincerity one is trying to get across, etc., etc., etc.

It has certainly happened to me too!

[Misha]

You thought I was concentrating on the weight issue. I was concentrating on the growing spoiled, selfish, me-first 'ATTITUDE' that is becoming more and more popular within the women in American culture.

I am just curious. Both American women and MEN grow up in the same culture, the same society and are subject to the same social influences. If American women have this attitude, would it not follow that American men would also have a selfish me-first attitude?

[KenC]

I am just curious. Both American women and MEN grow up in the same culture, the same society and are subject to the same social influences. If American women have this attitude, would it not follow that American men would also have a selfish me-first attitude?

No, because there is a different set of rules for women than men and our culture has taken a turn where women are held in higher regard than men.  It has become very popular in our society to degrade men in order to boost the self esteem of women.
KenC

[mspanky]

 KenC,

 I beg to differ. many AM have the me first attitude. I see in in business where I know someone can easily be of help somehow, but will not because he is afraid I will get ahead of him he will pretend to care, but will do nothing .


 I see  many men who have little time for the wife and kids. But going out with the guys,watching sports,Nascar,or some other obsession takes priority. I know a guy who literally blew his wife's inheritanc. In talking to him you think the divorce is her fault and she's such a bitch. But when the real story came out I wonder how she kept from strangling him.

   On another board some guy's ex-wife actually came on board to tell the "real truth" about him. Turns out he did'nt work for 2 years. Has 3 kids and owes backpay  in child support.has a daughter who is 3 who needs a kidney and he said NO!! as a donor.

 When he replied about the ex, he explained she "volunteered" him as a donor and he said no. Because how dare she tell him what to do.  Not one person on that list admonished him. In fact she was looked upon as the bitchy ex -wife. But the fact this man actually admitted he was not going to  give his kidney to his own child because "noone tells me what to do speaks volumes". I feel sorry for his fiance who had also written. As she thinks he's the love of her life. he  hays he loves his kids. But he loves noone but himself.

   Never is it so obvious as how self entitled and selfish AM may be then when they have the choice in dating FW. I've traveled all over. I've seen men who obviously have not looked in a mirror in years,nor seen a dentist, get picky and insulting of women who do not fit their Barbie doll ideal of who they think they deserve. Why do they think they are so deserving of Ms. Perfect when they are less than perfect themselves?? Because of some special accomplishment? No,simply because they hold an American passport.

 Yes,some AW are horrible, but many of the guys on this endeavor who complain the loudest about the AW are horrible themselves. "Birds of a feather flock together".

  I have yet to meet a man (myself included) who is decent looking,makes a good living and the only women he can attract happen to all be fat and ugly. That gives me a big heads up on his own attraction to the opposite sex. This man may go to a Foreign country and get a real beauty, but as soon as she's here and sees he does not come close to even measuring up to average she will be gone.

   Women will look at who is admiring their men. They are very competitive in that way. To have even fat,ugly women not find him attractive is not a plus for him.

[WmGO]

This would be my advice to all the men here – don't fool yourself, be honest to yourself and stay true to your own beliefs, don't compromise your standards, try to be realistic and optimistic at the same time, search only for something that you yourself can equally give back to her. And the same goes for women.

And another thing that I thought I wouldn't mention but right now I think I can't help it. I would have absolutely failed to do everything I did in my life, including finding my two amazing husbands, without God and my faith, without praying every single night, without talking to Him and seeking the same answers. I don't have any idea how others do that standing in a complete dark and having nothing to lean on. How can you even decide at the end if she is the one or not, without God, without asking Him? How do people know what road to take when they are in front of 3 or 4 roads at once? How do you survive the moments when you have to brake up with a wrong person or when they brake up with you, or when the same USCIS puts sticks in your wheels to be together with your beloved, or when sickness strikes, or somebody dies, or…or….or…?

Wise words, very wise....

[WmGO]

While I respect your right to that opinion, you haven't walked in my shoes nor have you had the 'dating' experiences I have had the last few years. After being constantly lied too, having women 'flake' out on you, women with hidden physiological issues or substance problems, etc ...

I'm not trying to 'stereotype' all AW ... I'm sure there are plenty of nice, decent and loving women around the country ... but I haven't found any. And much like the shortage of decent RM/UM that we always hear about, I feel there is a shortage of quality AW as well. I could search for 10 years before finding the right AW. But I don't feel like waiting that long. If the odds of finding the kind of women that I am looking for are greater somewhere other than the US, does it not make sense to go that route?

IMO ... America is the greatest country in the world to live in ... but the culture and society in this country in going down the toilet. The 'me-first', selfish, materialistic, superficial nature that permeates the 'air' here makes me so frustrated that it is enough to make me consider moving to another country.

And I don't disagree with anything you say above. That is why I have been involved off and on with pursuing FSUW for many years (more off than on) - but for me it is not a be all end all, it is just another possibility -  and I believe in taking advantage of the opportunities.......

Admittedly     I have witnessed and experienced the kind of culture disease with AW that you have - probably the majority of them that I have dated (dozens upon dozens)................unfortunately we have a lot of culture disease in America..........there are a lot of broken people.........and divorce and broken families leave a permanent negative imprint on most people...........it is sad.........

I think that others have expressed it well though that when communicating with FSUW it is important not to sound like a bitter person when it comes to AW as that will cause the antennae to go up with most FSUW (assuming they are normal *and* sincere).

*I have to add this for perspective: For the most part I blame men for the overall
sociological and psychological condition of women..........too complicated to go into detail right now, but suffice to say that men are the leaders in society and IMO men in America have, overall, failed to be the right kind of leaders........

[KenC]

And I don't disagree with anything you say above. That is why I have been involved off and on with pursuing FSUW for many years (more off than on) - but for me it is not a be all end all, it is just another possibility -  and I believe in taking advantage of the opportunities.......

Admittedly     I have witnessed and experienced the kind of culture disease with AW that you have - probably the majority of them that I have dated (dozens upon dozens)................unfortunately we have a lot of culture disease in America..........there are a lot of broken people.........and divorce and broken families leave a permanent negative imprint on most people...........it is sad.........

I think that others have expressed it well though that when communicating with FSUW it is important not to sound like a bitter person when it comes to AW as that will cause the antennae to go up with most FSUW (assuming they are normal *and* sincere).

*I have to add this for perspective: For the most part I blame men for the overall
sociological and psychological condition of women..........too complicated to go into detail right now, but suffice to say that men are the leaders in society and IMO men in America have, overall, failed to be the right kind of leaders........

As usual, I agree with you WmGO!  If AW are monsters, it is by the creation of AM.
KenC

[Mishenka]

I have to agree on this one.  Dr Phil just stated on his TV show this morning hoow 40 % of all AM women are not reporting abuse in the home.  Still much goes unreported.  I have seen women change to the point of taking on some of the personality of their  abusive partners.  Not good!

Misha

[mspanky]

 Many Americans have issues men and women. If you ask FW what type of men  the majority of letters they receive  are from   , they will tell you a majority are men who have issues. That it can easily be seen with pictures and letters speaks volumes. Usually you have to get to know a person before you can make that assesment, but with these guys it's easy.


  There are plenty of "broken people" in the U.S. male and female. But to say society is making the woman worse while not affecting the men is wrong.

 Reality is many AM are alchoholics(beer does count),drug users(pot does count), wife abusers,irresponsible, cheaters,obese, lazy,liars. Just like everywhere else.

[WmGO]

1. But to say society is making the woman worse while not affecting the men is wrong.

2. Reality is many AM are alchoholics(beer does count),drug users(pot does count), wife abusers,irresponsible, cheaters,obese, lazy,liars. Just like everywhere else.

{numbers my insert}

Agree with #1, but I don't think anyone suggested otherwise.
Agree with #2, and that is *part* of what I was suggesting.....here is more:

Men control society. Men control movies, TV, music, the internet, commerce, education, etc. As men control society they either pollute it or protect and nurture it. They either sow good seeds or they sow bad seeds. In America, we have had nearly half a century of bad seed sowing and people wonder why we have all the cultural disease that we see....it isn't too hard to figure out. [You can see an analogy in FSU]. HOWEVER........

...I still believe in individual free will and individual responsibility, so ultimately responsibility lies with the individual as to how they are going to act, think and behave......but it doesn't help to be constantly bombarded with bad messages/influences/isms/etc.......

[AnastassiaAsh]

I have to agree on this one.  Dr Phil just stated on his TV show this morning hoow 40 % of all AM women are not reporting abuse in the home.  Still much goes unreported.  I have seen women change to the point of taking on some of the personality of their  abusive partners.  Not good!

Misha

I wonder why aren't they reporting? Isn't that foolish? As far as i understand women in the US are so much more 'protected' than in Russia.

[AnastassiaAsh]

...I still believe in individual free will and individual responsibility, so ultimately responsibility lies with the individual as to how they are going to act, think and behave......but it doesn't help to be constantly bombarded with bad messages/influences/isms/etc.......

So wise, very wise... 

[KenC]

{numbers my insert}

Agree with #1, but I don't think anyone suggested otherwise.
Agree with #2, and that is *part* of what I was suggesting.....here is more:

Men control society. Men control movies, TV, music, the internet, commerce, education, etc. As men control society they either pollute it or protect and nurture it. They either sow good seeds or they sow bad seeds. In America, we have had nearly half a century of bad seed sowing and people wonder why we have all the cultural disease that we see....it isn't too hard to figure out. [You can see an analogy in FSU]. HOWEVER........

...I still believe in individual free will and individual responsibility, so ultimately responsibility lies with the individual as to how they are going to act, think and behave......but it doesn't help to be constantly bombarded with bad messages/influences/isms/etc.......

This is what  was referring to when I said men created the monsters that AW have become.  If you look at the underlying message being transmitted it is that women are smart and strong and men are weak and feeble minded.  The old images of "Father knows Best" or Ward Clever are now replaced with Homer Simpson and Ed Bundy.  Almost every sit com portrays an idiot male figure fumbling and bumbling through life while the lead female character is strong, wise and grounded.  And the commercials are even worse.  What kind of message does that send?
KenC

[mspanky]

 With men controlling the media and still portraying men as weak, with more women going to college then men, with men pointing to their wives and saying "ask the boss". I think some men in America are becoming too lazy and behaving more like females then men.  The real men are far and few here. Men who are willing to take responsibility for family,career,making decisions,keeping fit,not falling prey to bad vices are very few.

  I am not going to toot my horn here. But I don't drink, smoke,do drugs,gamble. Have no porn addiction,take responsibility for my actions,respect others and try to help. I make sure I have enough set aside for future retirement, make sure to invest safely and wisely for my future families well being. But a lot of guys I know are not that responsible and have vices that are hidden from the public.

[ISORW]

Does your g/f live in the USA or another English-speaking country? If she does, how long has she been living there? I know people who reached high levels fluency studying English in Russia, but it was still a second language and they were not able to fully understand everything until they lived for a while in Canada.

My g/f currently lives in Ukraine and has never spent a day outside of the country.  She is absolutely fluent, thinks in English or Russian depending of course on which language she is speaking at the time.  I've only had to explain uniquely American phrases/slang to her, other than that I rarely (maybe once per 2 hour phone call) have to explain what I mean.

[Misha]

My g/f currently lives in Ukraine and has never spent a day outside of the country.  She is absolutely fluent, thinks in English or Russian depending of course on which language she is speaking at the time.  I've only had to explain uniquely American phrases/slang to her, other than that I rarely (maybe once per 2 hour phone call) have to explain what I mean.

That is pretty good. There are some things that are harder to understand for a non-native speaker: idioms, slang and humor. Also, it takes a while to get used to body language when you meet face-to-face. Much of what we say is communicated nonverbally and it is too easy to miscommunicate even if you are fluent in a language.

[WmGO]

  If you look at the underlying message being transmitted it is that women are smart and strong and men are weak and feeble minded.  The old images of "Father knows Best" or Ward Clever are now replaced with Homer Simpson and Ed Bundy.  Almost every sit com portrays an idiot male figure fumbling and bumbling through life while the lead female character is strong, wise and grounded.  And the commercials are even worse.  What kind of message does that send?
KenC

I agree - and that is *just* ONE example of the dozens of different bad cultural ideas/isms/influences that have been permeating American society since the cultural revolution of the 1960s.

What does your above mentioned message send?  That men are not to be trusted, respected, honored or looked up to because they are all stupid, weak and lazy.

[rose]

Reality is many AM are alchoholics(beer does count),drug users(pot does count), wife abusers,irresponsible, cheaters,obese, lazy,liars. Just like everywhere else.

Is it really so bad these days? Wow!!! That's why I see dozens of drunk, unemployed men, who cheat and lie with or without any reason...
Oh, wait...
The reality is that you'll see whatever you want to see. Depends on what you'll focuse your attention. If your friends/surrounding are "alchoholics(beer does count),drug users(pot does count), wife abusers,irresponsible, cheaters,obese, lazy,liars" then that's what you'll see, and if your friends are decent, caring for their families men then you'll think that that's who AM are. You probably watch Lifetime channel too much...
Why do people try to generalize?

 

[mspanky]

 I did not say all. I said man. Just as many bad AM as AW. Ask any FW who are in search of an American man how many letters they get from men who have it all going on and have everything a FW would want in a husband.? The truth is it's the minority, not the majority.  A majority of the men who would contact them are not men they would choose if they lived in America. Why? As Williamrd3 always says. The success rate is much lower than we think. Probably because Mr. American Prince Charming is not all he is thought to be once she lives with him.

    I will also add I live in one of the best areas in the country. People who you think have money and class are not all they are cracked up to be. The young lawyer nearby  whose family owns tons of prime real estate cheats on his wife. 2 of the most out of shape guys I know who are in the television industry are multi-millionaires in their 50's,divorced and only think they are entitled to women 18-25 and who look like models. Drinking a lot of wine is acceptable for many here. I think money makes people so unaware when they are alchoholics. They call it social drinking. I know a couple of very high players who have obsessive compulsive disorder.  I can go on and on. I sometimes laugh at this whole situation. The more you know about people the more you see there is no difference between many people with money or without. They all have their vices,their secrets,their bad behaviors,their sense of entitlement. Look around at the American guys you see in your travels next time you are abroad and tell me if you really think it's the minority who have issues.

[rose]

Ok, did I understand you correctly: you claimed that many AM are alcoholics, cheaters, liars, etc. Correct? I agree with that. Moreover, we all have issues. Here in America, and in Russia, and in Ukraine. I understood your post as a statement that you are not happy with the situation of the American society. And the point of your post was..?

In the American society there are all those described above categories, so what? Name me the country where there is no people who drink, for example. That's life.
The point of my post is YOU SEE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE. Look for drinkers and you'll find drinkers, look for cheaters you'll find cheaters. There are a lot of nice and decent people around, look at this forum, for example, look how the majority of men here dedicated to building solid families. (Guys, I'm not trying to kiss... I just state what I see). Why not to try to find something positive in this life and focus the attention on it?

[mspanky]

Rose,

 Of course there are good and bad in all societies. That's why when some men claim all AW are bad I wonder why they would say that. I've met plenty of Aw and FW(Filipina,Russian,Latina) in the U.S. who I think would make a great mate for a lucky man. Unfortunately, THEY may not have thought the same about me . But I will not put them down for that as we all have our preferrences and when opportunity strikes we all can get as picky as our environment allows.