Ask me, I've done it! and have been married for 3 years happily!

[groovlstk]

privet Lilia!
I didn't say that my wife and her friends wouldn't use a website to meet men. I said that they wouldn't sign up specifically for an agency site that markets Russian women to western men.

My wife and her friends feel exactly like Eduard's. We can debate whether they're wrong or right until the cows come home. The fact is... if you limit yourself to using agencies w/out exploring other methods of meeting FSU women, you're really only seeing the tip of the iceberg when it comes to available women.

[Eduard]

Another possible reason may be that they do not want to let their friends know about it . Not easy to identify a person from the scant information in an agency profile, while a photo is a dead giveaway.

Yes there are women who will not put their photo on the profile because they don't want to be identified. But once again, if you read what they say you will see that those women will put something like "just looking to talk to a guy" and many times they will actually say that they are married. On the other hand if a woman writes something like: "I would really love to find a good family oriented man for marriage and children, who will be loyal to me and I to him. Tired of players and cheaters and just want to find my one and only sunshine"
You can bet that this girl is what most of us look for and not just trying to hide her face because she is cheating...
You also said "agency profile" You won't find the women and profiles I'm talking about on any agency site. I think you might be missing the point.

[Eduard]

My wife and her friends feel exactly like Eduard's. We can debate whether they're wrong or right until the cows come home. The fact is... if you limit yourself to using agencies w/out exploring other methods of meeting FSU women, you're really only seeing the tip of the iceberg when it comes to available women.

That's exactly what I'm talking about!!!

[SANDRO43]

You also said "agency profile" You won't find the women and profiles I'm talking about on any agency site. I think you might be missing the point.

OK, I should have written "website" profile .

[Simoni]

My wife and her friends feel exactly like Eduard's. We can debate whether they're wrong or right until the cows come home.

That's fine.  But I had a lot of experience dating girls who were signed up with good agencies, and the vast majority were honest, good girls.  Gator made the same point back-thread, too.

So while I can agree with Groove and Ed that there are a lot of great girls out there on non-agency sites, I'll totally disagree that girls on agency sites are somehow "tainted." 

On a good agency, it's just not so.  I know.  Been there, done that.  And I still know girls who are meeting men via good agencies.

[groovlstk]

I don't think anyone except Thor will deny that there are many wonderful girls who are using agencies, in my experience it's even possible to find good girls through the worst, most dishonest agencies. 

However, there's no denying that there is a perception among many in the FSU that girls who use agencies are pro daters or simply looking for an easier life in a Western country. Again, we can debate the reasons for this until we are blue in the face, but the smart single guy who is still in the search process will use this knowledge and diversify his search methods to appeal to the broadest segments of single FSU women.

[Jumper]

the smart single guy who is still in the search process will use this knowledge and diversify his search methods to appeal to the broadest segments of single FSU women.

most certainly...

Anyone who limits thier search by concentrating on one method ,
or even one nationality of women,
is a bit silly in my thinking..

but i guess that's another debate , isn't it? lol


There are  about as many ways to meet people as thier are people!


unforunantly, a LARGE majority of WM that start this process , start simply by the very fact they think agency profiles and websites are  an EASY way to meet.
 The very basis of why they are even looking on some random RW dating site,
 is because they have limited interaction locally.
why it is limited -
likely has  a million reasons,
 job, personality, ,few hobbies or interests that get them out and about,,
what have you?
but it is a big part of why many guys are involved in this..

it is more comfortable than walking up to some stranger they find attractive,
 and having to posses enough game to strike up an interesting conversation ,
and face the very real possibilty of rejection ,
without it beating thier fragile ego up..

so a RW dating site, where email first, (afterall its much easier to handle rejection at a distance ) is very appealing to a lot of guys.

thats not a bad thing,in itself,
but it does set the whole scenerio up to be very agency based..

and these same guys are not the ones to meet random RW in public, or in other ways
 thru charity work there, or thru  employement that takes them in the area..
the yar eno tthe type to look into that ,or into alternatives really.


Ed is offering an alternative that would also fit in with the majority of men looking on agency sites.
it's "comfortable" and maybe even more so than other ways..
a good idea, thats certainly fits many of the customers in the marketplace..
and likely provides  good oppurtunities for the clients.

 heck, i would suggest he add in the *newspaper ads* route as well?
since he can easily read them and answer them in Russian.

but in any case anyone ,wether they fit the majority profile ,or are exceptions to it,
should look into everyway possible..and keep on open mind.
it's common sense to keep your options as many  as possible!
and yes that includes not discounting a RW that may have signed up at an  agency..


It's a good idea Ed..

If i had any buddies looking into this, i'd suggest they try several ways,
including your method..

[Lily]

so a RW dating site, where email first, (afterall its much easier to handle rejection at a distance ) is very appealing to a lot of guys.

thats not a bad thing,in itself,
but it does set the whole scenerio up to be very agency based..

and these same guys are not the ones to meet random RW in public, or in other ways
 thru charity work there, or thru  employement that takes them in the area..
the yar eno tthe type to look into that ,or into alternatives really.
 

The advantage of both the dating sites and agencies is that both ways ensure that available and eligible people are to be aproached. In reality, if we are attracted to someone, we may spend weeks and months on a person who may be unavailable. This is one obvious reason to use them.

Second, as AJ pointed, the good thing of both options is that the first and the most complicated part to bring two available people to each other are the emails, or the written words. That makes a lot of difference. Totally agree that it is easier to handle a written rejection.

That makes a lot of difference vs dating in reality, and is a great advantage for agencies and dating sites.

However I did not get it why it sets a whole scenario to be very agency based...So far I can not think of why using an agency could be a benefit except of being an outfitter for WM visiting Russia and targeting women who are not fluent in English. at least for a RW I don't see any advantage..

I have a question to Eduard: how do you form and maitain a database of women to find prospective options for your male clients?

[Eduard]

Ed is offering an alternative that would also fit in with the majority of men looking on agency sites.
it's "comfortable" and maybe even more so than other ways..
a good idea, thats certainly fits many of the customers in the marketplace..
and likely provides  good oppurtunities for the clients.

 heck, i would suggest he add in the *newspaper ads* route as well?
since he can easily read them and answer them in Russian.

but in any case anyone ,wether they fit the majority profile ,or are exceptions to it,
should look into everyway possible..and keep on open mind.
it's common sense to keep your options as many  as possible!
and yes that includes not discounting a RW that may have signed up at an  agency..


It's a good idea Ed..

If i had any buddies looking into this, i'd suggest they try several ways,
including your method..

Thanks for your kind words and understanding, AJ!
All my clients have been extreemely happy with the outcome. It only takes 2 to 4 months to find and get to know 3 to 5 girls with whom they feel genuine connection with. They get to know each other through letters and phone conversations with no language barrier and then when we travel to Russia and spend a few days with each woman the chemistry usually dictates which woman he will be with. I'm also there to translate, observe and advice. Being a native Russian speaker and the fact that I grew up in Russia gives me an advantege over a foreigner in figuring out what's on a girls's mind. Sometimes things that are not being said and/or the body language are more important than what a woman's lips are saying. I observe their interaction and her body language and later advise my client on which woman seems to be really attracted to him, is more genuine and will likely be a better match. With the level of communication that I faciliate for my clients there is never a need for the second visit to Russia and they have no reason to travel there again (unless they just want to).
AJ, your idea about the newspaper ads is a good one, I've thought about it...but in reality most women in the FSU are on line. If by chance they don't have a computer at home, they are working on one at work and spend plenty of time chatting with friends, browsing, and who knows what else.
Since I have access to around 6,000,000 direct contact women's profiles why bother with the papers? It would take me a lifetime to go through just those available on line!

[Eduard]

I have a question to Eduard: how do you form and maitain a database of women to find prospective options for your male clients?

Lil'chik, ti hochesh shto bi ya vse svoi sekreti raskril ?

[Lily]

Of course Eduard, you don't have to answer, no problem 

I'd be curious about how many women that you introduce to your clients are fluent in English to be able to express almost everything they feel and want to say? Are you also present at the meetings where in fact no translating is necessary?

[Misha]

So far I can not think of why using an agency could be a benefit except of being an outfitter for WM visiting Russia and targeting women who are not fluent in English.

Why is there a presumption that women using the free Russian dating sites automatically know no English or are not fluent? The main dating site (the mambo network with sites such as singles.ru) allows women to indicate which languages they speak (including English). It is possible to find women who have indicated that they know English and then through chatting you can judge their level of fluency. 

[William3rd]

Yes- he is present at meetings where no translation is needed. He also likes to watch

[groovlstk]

I observe their interaction and her body language and later advise my client on which woman seems to be really attracted to him, is more genuine and will likely be a better match.

I would imagine there are guys for whom this could be useful, but IMHO any guy who needs a 3rd party to tell him whether a FSU girl is genuinely interested in him is socially inept.

With the level of communication that I faciliate for my clients there is never a need for the second visit to Russia and they have no reason to travel there again (unless they just want to).

I'm sorry, but this is absurd. Putting two sincere people together is one thing, expecting them to make a commitment to MARRY after a week or two together is insane. What kind of woman would agree to marry a virtual stranger and relocate to his country thousands of miles away?

This sort of thing may "work" for truly desperate men and women, but why would anyone with a little self-respect want to roll the dice on something so risky as this? 

[Lily]

Why is there a presumption that women using the free Russian dating sites automatically know no English or are not fluent? The main dating site (the mambo network with sites such as singles.ru) allows women to indicate which languages they speak (including English). It is possible to find women who have indicated that they know English and then through chatting you can judge their level of fluency. 

My guess would be that women who use the free dating sites would more likely to know English or even be fluent, as there are no intermediaries like agencies. Actually, I don't think this presumption exist, rather the opposite.

[Misha]

My guess would be that women who use the free dating sites would more likely to know English or even be fluent, as there are no intermediaries like agencies. Actually, I don't think this presumption exist, rather the opposite.

Thanks Lily for the clarification. In my experience, most of the legitimate women who are using the agencies are also on the free Russian dating sites. Given the odds that a woman will find and marry a foreigner using the agencies (5% give or take from what I have heard), a woman would be wise to explore other options as well.

[Simoni]

I'm sorry, but this is absurd. Putting two sincere people together is one thing, expecting them to make a commitment to MARRY after a week or two together is insane. What kind of woman would agree to marry a virtual stranger and relocate to his country thousands of miles away?

Hmm...not my cup of tea.  But LOTS of guys here do just that, including a couple of our "esteemed" posters. 

It's in the followup.

Meet a girl on a single trip and then become engaged.  Get to know her over the 9 month visa wait via email and phone and sms.  Then fly her to your country and marry in 90 days.

My guess is that lots of guys do that, including our one week wonders.

And even guys who are veterans of multiple trips settle "quickly" when they find the "one" for them.  Maybe they make one more trip to see her, maybe not.

I was more cautious; I met Marina many times in her country and others before we reached the visa stage.

Putting two sincere people together is one thing, expecting them to make a commitment to MARRY after a week or two together is insane.

What I read of Ed's method does not say he expects two people to meet and commit.  He clearly says the man is meeting 3 to 5 women, and that the man finds someone from multiple meetings.  The women he "clicks" with then leads to followup.

[Mod7]

Lil'chik, ti hochesh shto bi ya vse svoi sekreti raskril ?

Eduard, it's bad forum etiquette to post in languages other than English here (except for the International boards).

Please refrain to do so in the future.

[Misha]

Hmm...not my cup of tea.  But LOTS of guys here do just that, including a couple of our "esteemed" posters. 

And even guys who are veterans of multiple trips settle "quickly" when they find the "one" for them.  Maybe they make one more trip to see her, maybe not.

I was more cautious; I met Marina many times in her country and others before we reached the visa stage.

This is a misquote.  What I read of Ed's method does not say he expects two people to meet and commit.  He clearly says the man is meeting 3 to 5 women, and that the man finds someone from multiple meetings.  The women he "clicks" with then leads to followup.

It would make for an interesting poll: How much time did you spend with your fiancee (face-to-face time) before filing the paperwork for her going to your country?

In my case, I met a number of women before meeting my wife. However, when I met my wife, it "clicked" and I quickly realized that I had found the one for me. I asked her on a bus two weeks later if she would consider marrying me (I am still getting flack from her for this as it was not romantic enough LOL). Nonetheless, she did say yes. We would, however, spend 6 months together before the actual wedding.

[groovlstk]

What I read of Ed's method does not say he expects two people to meet and commit.  He clearly says the man is meeting 3 to 5 women, and that the man finds someone from multiple meetings.  The women he "clicks" with then leads to followup.

I don't see that Ed is recommending followup below...?

I observe their interaction and her body language and later advise my client on which woman seems to be really attracted to him, is more genuine and will likely be a better match. With the level of communication that I faciliate for my clients there is never a need for the second visit to Russia and they have no reason to travel there again (unless they just want to).

[Makkin]

  Ed there does seem to be a red flag concerning the times a person SHOULD meet?

Makkin

[Jumper]

lily said

However I did not get it why it sets a whole scenario to be very agency based......

ahh lily, i was not clear enough.

i meant that this is just "how it is",
 by the very nature ,and situation ,of the WM most likely to be involved,,

The majority come across the whole "possibilty" of marrying a RW,
by stumbling upon an agency  dating site, or being written to on a dating site they have joined, and peaks thier interest to look into it more ,
but most of the time thier correspondence is going to start  thru agency profiles.
Many of the men involved, their first contact is thru an agency, and few will ultimately change into any other style of meeting.
 
 I agree with you that the main positive of dating and agency websites is the fact that the people posting a profile are availible,and actively "looking".
That is a huge advantage for sure.

Ed's is a variation on the theme,, but is still using the local Russian dating sites profiles to initiate contact, and is acting as a guide and interpreter,,
simply doesnt have RW sign up with him on a website, and instead uses other sites to get RW profiles..
it is a good variation, but ultimately is the same basic concept..
so fits the same scenerio ...?

not saying thats a bad thing at all..

 

[Simoni]

I don't see that Ed is recommending followup below...?

Of course he is.  The couple has lots of communication during the visa wait.

[Misha]

Of course he is.  The couple has lots of communication during the visa wait.

The way that I read it is that Eduard does not have to return as once his client has met the right person on the first trip, they are fully capable of pursuing a relationship without him.

[Simoni]

The way that I read it is that Eduard does not have to return as once his client has met the right person on the first trip, they are fully capable of pursuing a relationship without him.

Exactly.   My comprehension, too. 

Of course unless their followup conversations need a terp.

I've met him and know that's the case.