Teaching moment, learn from another's missteps Part 1

[ISORW]

Taz, excellent posts and writing, I do hope you post more. A lot of insights there and I'm afraid I have to agree with Anastassia, I think there are many dysfunctional guys like JD who pursue RW/UW and make a mess of things.  As I discussed with a friend of mine who has been there and illustrated by JD, many guys who go there do so because they don't have the social skills to date a woman here in the US and the FSU becomes a bandaid cure for them which of course usually does not work as you so well illustrate.

[Taz]

To all, thanks for the feedback. I continue to write as I best as I can accurately recollect the events. I may make some mistakes or screw up time lines but I really felt I should get it out there for someone to make use of the info before I totally forgot it all. It is as unbiased as I can possibly make it.

I've tried to edit it so people get the point without substantively changing it. I have also had to walk a fine line with giving out too much info as to invade people's privacy which I totally respect. All the event are true to the best of my ability to recount them. I've almost completed the next episode.

On a side note, there are a lot of dysfunctional men and women. JD was able to rely on his sex appeal with women for a long time. Now it isn't enough. Older women and by that I mean closer to 30 and up, are looking for a man who has what they need emotionally as much as physically. I have seen so many men lack the social skills needed to get beyond more than just having sex with Russian women. At the same time, many of these RW aren't as beautiful as they were when younger but they still haven't learned how to please a man beyond just showing off some bare parts of their body. When they were stil about twenty, that would have been enough for most men but now the bloom is sort of off the rose and they are struggling in their own way.

I'll recount a quite experience I had on my last trip with JD. This is my history rather than JD. I was sitting at this agency waiting for JD to come back to meet a woman he had arranged a meeting with. I was just killing time chatting with a translator when in walks this very pretty woman. She looked to be in her mid 20's. She apparently was new to the agency and had just dropped of her profile and photos. As she was leaving she remarked to the translator that I seemed interesting and basically the door was open if I wanted to contact her.

The translator told me this after she left. I though what the heck, I'll go out as I am not doing anything else at the moment. Anyway I went out with the very attractive woman. We hit it off pretty well. Went out on another date. Very nice time then. Another date followed. A common theme though quickly reared its ugly head. This woman was almost never on time or sometimes would cancel the date at the last minute.

She was a model and had done quite a bit of it but had I known that I would have probably passed on even going out with her. Unlike some other models I've dated she was very sensual and not the "cold fish" type of you can look at me but don't touch me. Intimacy was not an issue with her but I think she was accustomed to using sex to smooth over the issues of her lack of punctuality and other personality problems.

After about a week of this I bailed out. She was just stunned. She couldn't believe I would dump her. How could I, dump her, a model that had been in several magazines and was the "face" of this brand and the "hands" of another brand. I calmly explained that if he she couldn't keep our planned meetings, how could I trust her on anything else. First one was her friend was leaving to marry a man from the US and it was legit but she knew it was coming but didn't tell me until the last minute.

She thought I'd come back to her when she promised an "interesting" evening but I politely declined and said while I enjoyed our intimate moments together, that wasn't all I was looking for in a relationship nor was pure physical beauty enough to keep me interested. Perhaps if I was a teenager or I needed to put a notch in my belt, it might have been worthwhile but I am not so easily manipulated. I told her she needed to grow up and be more mature in a relationship as someday her beauty would fade and all that would be left is personality that nobody was interested in.

So to me, she was as dysfucntional as JD in her own way. She constantly used her sex appeal to get by and because she was young enough and hot enough, she could get away with it. She never learned how to have a normal relationship as most men would due damn near anything to get into her pants and bed her. The more I resisted her the more she then threw herself at me. I was a challenge she couldn't overcome. Now I see her name plastered all over the Internet by men trying to find out if she is a scam or not. I can assure these guys she isn't a scammer but you sure as heck don't want to go on the ride this woman is likely to take you on.

[chernoble]

I am afraid JD is a typical WM in this endeavor.

No offense but this JD and his escapades disgusts me in ways you cannot imagine.  I think Russians have a saying that if it looks like sh*t, smells like sh*t, comes out like sh*t... you sure as hell don't want to taste it to find out if it is sh*t. 

The whole thing with Gaia and Anna and all the other victims or casualties of war was just too tragic to hear not only for the human suffering and time wasted but also because of the negative brush this tars ALL WM with accurately or not!  Though one good thing I think happened with the Gaia episode is she lived happily ever after because that was something that would NOT have happened if she went to the loser instead.  She would have been completely dependent on JD for everything from money to finding directions and from what I read of him he would have dominated her w/o remorse and used her as a slave sex toy.  So the fact Gaia smartened up and got on with her life makes that part good news.

Listen Taz some people are worst case scenarios and I know hes your friend (Though I wouldn't make friends with guys I met online.  Too many wierdos surfing around.) but you should have also put more consideration into the girl's feelings and happiness you introduced JD to.  Especially with that first decent girl's case Nastya.  Man that was just wrong and a huge warning siren with the abortion and how he just fu*ked and dumped her like trash.  That should have told a biography about what kind of guy he is.  This guy must have a 1cm dick the way he was waving it around every girl he saw.

Though I have to admit I wish the relationship with Lena worked out.  I couldn't have seen a more compatible couple in my life (their egos, personalities, selfish arrogance were like two sides of the same coin) and he found her all on his own!  You have to admit he has great skills in meeting his "type" 

[Daveman]

Chernoble, why not tell us how you REALLY feel.. this sugar coating nonsense just doesn't cut it.. LoL

...him he would have dominated her w/o remorse and used her as a slave sex toy

god, man, I wouldn't go THAT far... true, he's rather a basket case, but 'sex slave toy' is stretching a bit with the information available..  immature as hell in relationships for sure.  Not someone I'd want to introduce to any woman of any culture..

Good move getting rid of the self centered woman, Taz.. 

Dave

[Taz]

I am not going to make any excuses for JD. The only personal introduction I made was with my wife's relative. I can tell you that I didn't cover up his flaws on the times I translated for him. I did try and keep him on point when communicating with the women he met.

He did meet quite a few women that were total flakes. Fortunately I was there to help him weed out the really bad ones. As I write this I remember a few other episodes I should detail regarding how bad some of these women can be as well. JD isn't an angel by any means but he has met some women that are far worse than he is.

I don't want to spoil the ending but during the last trip, when JD was really seeming to lose it, I made sure the women saw his character very visibly. I wouldn't want to outright sabotage his meeting but I made sure I didn't cover up for him either. Basically I bowed out as much as possible the last trip as we got into a pretty heated argument. He had a piss poor, self-defeating attitude and I didn't appreciate how he was acting. I rarely curse but this time I did and pretty much let him have it but that as they say is a story for another day.

If JD could be similar to what he is like when he is at home versus what he becomes in UA or RU, he would be more successful. You either have to play the game by the current rules or get out. Complaining does now good at all. I've heard from other guys besides JD that is more difficult now than before such as a few years ago. Maybe it is but I think the overall quality of women and their sincerity has increased. So I think there are less women than before but the remaining ones appear to be better.

I can say for the first time in my personal experience watching JD, I have actually seen agencies that are worth using. Previously I had an incredibly negative opinion about agencies but I am the kind of person that when presented with new information I can see if it warrants revising my opinion. With respect to some agencies I can actually see their benefit for a lot of men AND women. A good agency will actually know their women very well and can provide salient advice. They can have men steer clear of particular women and point out women they would be more suitable for.

[AnastassiaAsh]

I sometimes wonder how JD became successful but I know it was his attention to detail, perseverance and intelligence. He did have a very difficult course of study in school and usually to survive the academic rigors of his chosen course of study requires a lot of work to graduate (more so than most disciplines).

I'll try and answer your other questions Anastassia. My romance with Natasha took place well after my wife and I divorced. I am not the type of guy who would cheat on his wife. I would be lying if I said I didn't have lots of opportunities but I didn't take advantage of them.

As for my ex-wife, she is a good woman. Her daughter though is almost the exact opposite of her mom.  I'll call her daughter Zhenya. Zhenya is totally out of control child and I do blame her mom for a lot of that though Zhenya has a pretty bad character. I don't think her mom is strong enough to control her.

Whenever I tried to enforce order in our household, Zhenya would complain that I was being mean to her or hit her. Trust me there was plenty of reasons to hit her but it really isn't my style of parenting. Zhenya thinks she is some amazing person and that everyone should treat her like a princess. She can't even be polite or respectful to adults. I can't wait until she goes to high school. She has such a big mouth she is going to get smacked down pretty quickly.

Sadly it will take that before she wises up. I have a son about Zhenya’s age. I told him me must protect his family from Zhenya if she is physical with him or anyone else. Girls mature physically quicker than boys until about twelve or so. So Zhenya was bigger than my children even though I have a son about her age. I told my children that if she physically hits them or hurt them they have the right to defend themselves. I taught my sons to not hit women if you can possibly avoid it and then only in self-defense. My children are very polite.

Well one day Zhenya grabbed my other son by the arm and dug her nails deep into his arm because she was mad at him for something. I wasn't around at the time and neither was her mom. We were outside working in the yard. My son to his credit walked away. She didn't get the reaction she expected and did it even harder. She apparently wanted him to hit her so she could run to us and complain that he hit her.

He came to me and showed me the marks on his arm. I said you have my permission to take her down the next time she does that. My son is excellent condition from playing both football and soccer all year long. Zhenya did that one more time even harder to the point of causing him to bleed. That was it for him, he knocked her flat on her butt so hard she couldn't breathe and then came out crying to us unaware that I already knew the score. She then tried to manipulate her mom until I showed her how many times Zhenya had already scratched him.

So once I realized I had a piece of trash for a stepdaughter rather than a little girl, I knew it was just a matter of time before things would unravel. It wasn't long after that when Zhenya choked my younger son with a belt. Thankfully his older brother was there and took care of Zhenya. To this day Zhenya will keep a wide berth from my oldest son if she sees him somewhere. Zhenya is just a self-absorbed, spoiled little (well I won't write what I really think but let's just say it isn't a compliment).

At the moment I am working on the next episode of JD’s saga and I may have it wrapped up tonight.

Taz, thank you for clarifications.
I would probably blame your ex-wife more than Zhenya herself for how this girl turned out. It starts from a young age and parents should be in control, that's when respect and manners should be taught to them, not when they are twelve. I feel so sorry for your relationship because it seems everything was more or less fine with you and your ex. It's a pity it was impossible to change the girl. Have you talked to her, heart to heart? It seems to me she was undergoing some problems she maybe didn't tell you about? Maybe English, alien environment, lack of friends.... There must be a reason. Did you show her enough of love? Also how come two grownups couldn't cope with a little girl?

Again, thank you very much for your story, there are things to learn for newbies and to confirm for experienced.

[Taz]

I agree that her mother should have done more to help. Unfortunately this child was spoiled from a very early age. When her father left, I think the rest of the family over compensated. As a result the child had an overly inflated ego. She grew up thinking she was a princess because everyone doted on her in part to help her not think about her father leaving. I’ve seen this quite often in Russia and Ukraine.

Additionally there is the problem is little girls have lots of “rights” in the US as do all children. For example in many states you aren’t allowed to spank your children or you can go to jail. Where I live you can only do it under certain circumstances and quite honestly it very easy to break the law if you don’t do spank them just as the law dictates.

For example you can’t spank a child if you are angry. It doesn’t matter how hard or soft you hit them, if you spank them while angry, you can go to jail. It doesn’t matter whether you are angry with the child or some other person. If you spank your child while angry, you can go to jail.

Let’s say the child tries to cut you with a knife. You can’t use tape on their arms to restrain them. You can’t do almost anything to tie their arms so they can’t cut you. That is against the law. They often suggest to children (in school) that if they have problems at home they should call 911 (the emergency number). My step daughter did this several times when she was unhappy with being told to do things like clean her room.

I did try and speak with my wife but she seemed to think Zhenya would grow up and not be so difficult. Unfortunately that was no the case. We married when Zhenya was about 6, divorced when she was about 9, she is 12 now and still a terror. Her grandfather came to visit my ex for about 3 weeks. He can’t speak any English. Zhenya was with him a lot of the time. She never once spoke to him in Russian or have a conversation with him. It was fine if he wanted to buy her something but she never ever tried to help him when out or do anything for him.

Zhenya received plenty of love and attention. She was difficult before coming to the US and would lie all the time. The culture change just made her character defects more visible and accelerated the rate at which they were revealed. In general my ex and I had a pretty good relationship. Her daughter has definitely become worse even threatening to kill me or her mom when she didn't get her way and that was after the divorce.

This past summer her cousin who often took care of her when she was in Kiev, came to visit as well. Her name is Alyona. She is an international business major and speaks excellent English. After staying with Zhenya and her mom about 2-3 days, she couldn’t stand to be around Zhenya any more and told her to get as far away as she could. There is so much more to this story but that is for a different thread. I’ll be posting more about JD later today if I have time. I have written the next episode but I just want to review and check and see if I need to edit anything.

[IAmZon]

Got here late ...

When these boards sizzle with the inadequacies of the American Women (AW), I always wonder why more is not written about the MANY inadequacies of the American Man (AM).  More often than not, I am certain they are most deserving of each other.  As the character JD clearly points out.

One most be simultaneously "strong" and infinitely "patient" to make these arrangements work.  THAT IS FOR SURE.  A person who is rigid, and set in his ways, must not only look for his second half  ... but a second half who is entirely willing to conform.  Not the best for a true and enduring relationship.

[AnastassiaAsh]

A person who is rigid, and set in his ways, must not only look for his second half  ... but a second half who is entirely willing to conform.  Not the best for a true and enduring relationship.

Rivardco, you absolutely nailed it. Can't be said better. It is SO true. Especially for AM over 45 or so. To conform, accept, obey, not say a word...so not fair towards some good RW.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Taz, again i would like to say thank you very much for writing so much and providing your story. All of this is so 'wholesome' if i may say so for everybody. I am aware of children's rights situation. In some cases this protects them and in others doesn't really do good for other people who are involved. You are right, this whole topic is for another thread and maybe you will start one. Children from both sides actualy can be a bigger problem than it may seem that can affect any relationship. Please, keep posting about JD and your experience. This is a really good thread. 

[Taz]

The integration of children into a new relationship is always a challenge. When you make it intercultural it is exponentially more difficult.

The problem with people like JD is they don't realize they are so rigid. By comparison I am so flexible I could be a gymnast. 

Actually I think I find a good balance between being strong AND flexible. I can change my opinion when presented with enough evidence. If you are too flexible, women will view you as week. Too rigid and you are unlikely to be successful unless you are simply lucky.

Both men and women who seek an intercultural marriage need to be flexible. They need to realize there will be misunderstandings and how they resolve them will often set the tone for their relationship. Patience is not just a virtue but a necessity as well.

Often I reminded JD that all it takes is one good woman to markedly change your life. One wrong choice can also destroy it. The more reasonable the expectations of both man and woman are, the greater the chance for success. Unrealistic expectations are a recipe for disaster in most cases.

If you are fat, old, ugly and poor and super model type woman wants to be with you, then you better accurately assess her motives. I can assure your personality isn't that good nor are parts of your anatomy that impressive as to keep her.

I have reminded JD that he still seeks the same age women as he did about 6 years ago.  However he obviously has aged in that time so his odds of successfully finding a woman in that original age range diminish each year UNLESS he has some factor that is improving rapidly enough to counter the decline. So maybe he is much richer now than before, that could offset it somewhat. Maybe his understanding of the culture has improved and his language ability as well. These could factor into the woman's decision as to whether he is an appealing candidate or not.

One misstep on h is part is to assume that the woman should be flexible for him but not for her. For example he wants woman to accept him at the age of 45 when her target is to 40 years old. OTOH, he won't accept her at all if she is 33 and his target is up to 32. Why should she yield when he won't? His rules are inviolate but he wants hers to be mutable. This is the fallacy of his logic in general.

I personally thing it stems from his thought process that he is "rescuing her" from a bad situation. Sure there may be economic factors but most of the women I've met are truly looking for love, not a better economic situation. Maybe a better life financially will be a bonus of finding a man who really cares about her. It is pretty easy to tell what women are motivated by money rather than love though some men are blind to a beautiful woman's charms.

[Daveman]

** We interrupt this thread to bring you more psychotic and idiotic ramblings from the Daveman **

Since this thread title is "teaching moment" rather than just a 'report', I'll toss an idea out there.

Rivardco wrote:

A person who is rigid, and set in his ways, must not only look for his second half  ... but a second half who is entirely willing to conform.  Not the best for a true and enduring relationship.

And then Nastya added:

Rivardco, you absolutely nailed it. Can't be said better. It is SO true. Especially for AM over 45 or so. To conform, accept, obey, not say a word...so not fair towards some good RW.

Yep, very true but "Rigid" is symptomatic.  I think there also is a deeper, more revealing point to be made here pertaining to all relationships and especially to AM/RW relations.

A man who does not view his lady/partner as his absolute equal will be 'rigid' (and not in the FUN sense) because he feels his position superior and hers inferior in some way.  If you drill down every situation of 'rigidity' far enough, you'll hit this eventuality. It's a superiority complex.

From the male perspective, two notable primary causes of the conscious, or worse, *unconscious* perception of inequality are "Age Gap" and "Rescue Syndrome". 

JD exemplifies this quite nicely.  In his mind, these women are inferior to him, and probably not on a conscious level.  I think the guys with the most trouble with this process have this hangup and unfortunately, there is no known cure other than having life spank one's tail enough times to finally get it. These guys will perpetually fail until they ultimately either give up or land in some form of hell. 

With the age gap, men have a tendency to view the ladies as "girls", and not at their level of experience, intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, whatever, so of course expect the lady to conform to his superior position.

With the rescue syndrome, he may think he's a knight but certainly isn't there for altruistic reasons. He's there for the spoils of conquest - tight ass, firm breasts, smooth beautiful face.  He spent a small fortune in this process and brought her into a new life.. so in his mind she OWES him for this. She's indebted to him so must conform to his superior position.
 
What do the successful relationships/marriages all have in common at the most basic level from the male perspective (even with an age gap)?  Okay, looking at posts from KenC, jb, ScottInCrimea, BC, just to name a few.. the first, bottom line, most basic common factor in *all* of their success is -  down to the absolute core of their being, they know, not just consciously but at that unconscious level down to the depths of the soul that their partners are absolutely and completely equal (and even superior) to them in a balanced way.

JD, or any other man who doesn't feel exactly that way will ultimately fail. 

Then again, maybe I'm just completely full of crap. Who knows?

** We now return you to the non blatherous (neologisms are not against TOS) postings of other members, already in progress **

[Adrian]

I couldn’t believe I had just witnessed a miracle! JD finally didn’t muck it up and actually had found a great woman (though I shouldn’t have worried). He even didn’t get too hung up on the photos. He amazingly looked past her NOT being a candidate to appear on Hugh Hefner’s magazine pages. Things were going great but I kept waiting for the other shoe to fall. I know Mr. Murphy and his damned laws were just waiting to be proven right!

Interesting stories. But, you somehow seem to believe that your way of choosing a wife is superior to JD's. I gather from your posts that you married an FSUW and are now divorced. So, you are not that good a judge of women and that adept at choosing a partner are you? JD wants a beautiful woman. So? That is what is important to him. Just because a woman is beautiful, does not mean she is not marriage material. Just as a less attractive woman is not necessarily marriageable. You married a woman with a child. How stupid was that? A child is a red flag. Integrating a child AND a wife into America and into your lifestyle? Not very smart. Anyway, the point of my post is that, you are no smarter than JD, regardless of what you believe.

[Taz]

Interesting stories. But, you somehow seem to believe that your way of choosing a wife is superior to JD's. I gather from your posts that you married an FSUW and are now divorced. So, you are not that good a judge of women and that adept at choosing a partner are you? JD wants a beautiful woman. So? That is what is important to him. Just because a woman is beautiful, does not mean she is not marriage material. Just as a less attractive woman is not necessarily marriageable. You married a woman with a child. How stupid was that? A child is a red flag. Integrating a child AND a wife into America and into your lifestyle? Not very smart. Anyway, the point of my post is that, you are no smarter than JD, regardless of what you believe.

Where did I ever say my way of choosing a wife is better than JD's? When did I ever describe "my way"? So far JD has never had a wife; ever. In reality, I am a pretty good judge of character however there is always the wild card element of how will they be once they come here. There is lot of a stress related to adjusting to a new environment and even the best woman can change. Adding a child to the mix totally complicates it. No matter how well you plan things, mistakes still happen.

One thing I can definitely say is that almost every woman I've ever dated, still will speak highly of me except one. I think that speaks pretty well to my character. My ex and I are still good friends with no animosity between us so we must have done something right. I have a very family oriented life style and I am very close to my children.

As for JD, he doesn't exactly pick beautiful women. If he consistently did, I could understand it. JD often chooses a woman based on some perceived notion that she isn't so hot that he will be in danger of losing her once she comes here. In general the women I've dated have been far more beautiful inside and out than the ones he has dated but I have never viewed it as a contest like he at times does. I have never said a beautiful woman isn't marriage material. I don't know where you came up with that idea from my posts. If there was a remotely related point to that it was concerning models. I avoid both lawyers and models in general.

I don't see why a child is a red flag. That point of yours I don't get at all. There are incredibly few women in the 27-37 age range that have no children. If I were looking for a 21 year old women it would be much easier to find a woman without children. So to follow your logic to its logical conclusion; because I have children, it should be a red flag to women as well? For the most part woman appreciate that I have children and how I care for them as it shows I can be a good father to potential children we might have together at some point.

Typically once a woman has met JD, they want very little to do with him ever again. My point isn't to compare and contrast my situation vis a vis JD's but to help people learn from JD's experience. I would say someone who is successfully at marrying a RW is a man who has been married to a RW for at least 20 years. Unsuccessful is someone who has never been in a long term, serious relationship with a RW. Based on that criteria I am moderately successful; our relationship lasted about 5 years.

I'll live you with one last point to ponder. You seem to be willing to dismiss my viewpoints because you don't deem me as being successful. I'll explain it in the same way I answered a similar question from JD when I was given him feedback while on a date. JD was PO'd that I was pushing him a bit on a date to get him to open up a bit more. He said that he didn't need my "blankin' help" and he could do it on his own. I said fine, you are totally on your own. In 5 minutes the woman was begging me to continue to help them. Later on JD told me that he was just frustrated and wanted to be able to do it all on his own even if it was so damn difficult and complex. He was my cogent reply. "JD, I know you want to do it on your own. I appreciate that I understand your frustration. I just want you to keep one thing in mind, even the best athletes in the world have coaches and trainers. How do you think they became so successful? It typically wasn't raw talent alone!" Often the best coaches aren't necessarily the best players in that sport, sometimes they were good but not the best but they have a talent to communicate as well as observe and understand the fundamentals.

I am not going to say I am God's gift to RW but I do have a good foundation to work with. I communicate well in several languages, I am patient and I have a warm and generous character so for many people I make an ideal coach. I have helped several friends find their soulmates in Russia and Ukraine. JD just happens to be the most difficult one with the most complex issues to overcome. So do I have to be the ultimate success to help other people? No. Does that mean because I divorced a RW that I am a failure? No. It simply meant that nothing could have prepared me for the fact that my step daughter would try and kill my son. My desire to protect my children outweighed my love for my wife (as it should have).

[IAmZon]

** We interrupt this thread to bring you more psychotic and idiotic ramblings from the Daveman **

Since this thread title is "teaching moment" rather than just a 'report', I'll toss an idea out there.

Daveman wrote:

With the age gap, men have a tendency to view the ladies as "girls", and not at their level of experience, intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, whatever, so of course expect the lady to conform to his superior position.

With the rescue syndrome, he may think he's a knight but certainly isn't there for altruistic reasons. He's there for the spoils of conquest - tight ass, firm breasts, smooth beautiful face.  He spent a small fortune in this process and brought her into a new life.. so in his mind she OWES him for this. She's indebted to him so must conform to his superior position.

Regarding "age gaps" (always dangerous around here), I think we too often over simplify based on tight ass and firm tits. I find myself dating younger girls this year than last ... and last year was pretty young   But, I am at a point in life of "starting over"  ... so I find I have something very important in common, not in difference.  The fine ladies I have met that are closer to my age are like men closer to my age, "older and more rigid in thinking".  Tight ass and firm tits are a nice plus, but nothing compared to the enthusiasm to expereince - which often dies with most people around the age of 35.


Regarding "rescue syndrome"  This is something I have never had.  I think its very presence speaks negatively of the possessor, and almost entirely makes any relationship a farce.  I would add that one never truly knows who is "rescuing" whom.


Then again, maybe I'm just completely full of crap. Who knows?

** We now return you to the non blatherous (neologisms are not against TOS) postings of other members, already in progress **

[AnastassiaAsh]

Adrian, I think you ASSumed and jumped to some wrong conclusions. It doesn't matter if those ladies were beautiful or not beautiful, how JD was choosing them and if Taz himself knows better. The lesson here is how not to treat RW, how not to build a relationship... Taz was in one of the most difficult situation that AM could appear after bringing his lady here.

[AnastassiaAsh]

With the rescue syndrome, he may think he's a knight but certainly isn't there for altruistic reasons. He's there for the spoils of conquest - tight ass, firm breasts, smooth beautiful face.  He spent a small fortune in this process and brought her into a new life.. so in his mind she OWES him for this. She's indebted to him so must conform to his superior position.
 
What do the successful relationships/marriages all have in common at the most basic level from the male perspective (even with an age gap)?  Okay, looking at posts from KenC, jb, ScottInCrimea, BC, just to name a few.. the first, bottom line, most basic common factor in *all* of their success is -  down to the absolute core of their being, they know, not just consciously but at that unconscious level down to the depths of the soul that their partners are absolutely and completely equal (and even superior) to them in a balanced way.

Equality - Isn't this what i have been posting and telling both AM and RW in almost my every second post?

Daveman, these are very wise 'ramblings'.  Thank you, we are on the same page. 

[Daveman]

While we're waiting on the next exciting segment.. might as well dive into it a bit more for the fun of it...

Riv said:

But, I am at a point in life of "starting over"  ... so I find I have something very important in common, not in difference.  The fine ladies I have met that are closer to my age are like men closer to my age, "older and more rigid in thinking".  Tight ass and firm tits are a nice plus, but nothing compared to the enthusiasm to expereince - which often dies with most people around the age of 35.

I see where you are coming from Riv.  I don't really have anything at all either for or against age gap relationships.  I simply advocate going into them with an understanding of the big picture, the possible risks, ways to avoid them, etc..

There's also another angle to take a peek from (isn't there always? the more angles you view a situation from, the more likely you are to actually grasp the big picture and get a real handle on it).

Since Anastassia does so much counseling of AM/RW couples, my first thoughts were more fcused towards disagreements and finding solutions.  I take it you are referring to rigidity as "molded by experience and set in his ways".  I don't see this as a bad thing at all.  This brings stability on at least one major level and that is growth direction.

The highest risk group for marriages is two young people with little life experience.  They will share many experiences together, but each one is unique to them individually. The exact same experience might mold each one in different ways thus knocking their growth vectors in different directions - so eventually they accumulate enough experience to realize they've grown apart and have become two very different people.  Very simplistic for discussion of course.  There are various reasons young couples fail, probably the most common along with growth in different directions is having babies prior to being able to financially handle the situation - throwing a curve to financial stability and increasing stress.  They adore the kids, but the relationship must endure the stress.

So the above would be a fluid/fluid situation. Neither are stable in life from personal experience.

The age gap relationship, if both are really attracted, into each other, etc.. love/soul mates , not merely an 'arrangement with benefits' - is more stable because it's a fluid/stable situation.  The woman might conform to the man, but as long as they have many things in common, she's still in the fluid stage and adapts easily. There is a difference, however, in trying to force a woman to conform as opposed to finding one whose compatibility conforms her naturally.  Maturity levels do not equate to experience levels and the effects future experience will have on growth direction.  It *is* a risk. Just be aware of it and deal with it. Real compatibility alleviates some of the risk.

The lowest risk would be the stable/stable relationship where life's experiences has molded two people in the same ways, making them fit together naturally and be more "set" there.  They are less likely to change and grow in different directions from new experiences. However, finding this "set in her ways" woman who matches the "set in his ways" man will probably take a considerably longer amount of time. 

Of course these are simplistic point tossing discussions in a forum. A complete dissertation would consume volumes.

Dave

[Daveman]

Equality - Isn't this what i have been posting and telling both AM and RW in almost my every second post?

Daveman, these are very wise 'ramblings'.  Thank you, we are on the same page. 

Thanks, Anastassia.  I have a moment every now and then.. too bad they're few and far between!    Sorry, I've missed your posts on equality. I've been away for a bit and haven't caught up on my reading here yet.  Yes, we're definitely on the same page there.

Without equality, how can there possibly be a real other half? I can see a man placing in his profile - "I'd love to meet my other quarter"  or in some cases "penny"   

I like the golden coin analogy I heard some years back. A man and woman in a relationship are like two sides of the same coin, equal because made of the same substance, yet different responsibilities as the images stamped upon them.

Dave

[chade1968]

Taz I just wanted you to know I appreciate the time you have put into such a well written and informative post not to mention very funny at times.

[IAmZon]

I like your points too Dave ...

The rigidity I was referring to was a combination of what you call "stable"  AND the "rescue syndrome". 

I have come to know many RW who live temporarily in the US very closely.  One of the BIG considerations they worry about is not the "rescue syndrome" but the female version of the same disequilibrium - they worry that the economic advantages of a "stable" man will unduly, and negatively affect the growth of an otherwise natural relationship.  In more than one example this influenced a girl to shun a potential mate.

The "traditional role" of a women (the perception most often discussed as a prime motivator for an AM to find a RW) is enhanced with maturity, but after the age of 25ish is rather "stable." (that is 25 year old FSU woman ... for an AW, the age is more like 35 to never).  Not enough value is stressed in discussions to the acts and performance of the "traditional female role" in a relationship.  Truly only the female can bring the kind of warmth, devotion, and love that makes a home a home ... makes a family a family.  That is a GREAT gift and a GREAT value that equals any bit of security or provider the male brings.  The REAL risks with age gaps is a man's ability to discern "authenticity". That is the reason why some members are treated differently than others ... members worry about authenticity of the woman's goals and commitment.  man "shopping" for a wife in a week, or 2, or 3, is less able to discern authenticity that a man who is biding time and passing through.

Getting back to the main point, the character JD, the borderline OC personality type (we all know some don't we), are the least suited for this challenge than the rest.  I feel like I know JD (in my life he is JZ).  Opinion on everything, and always right. 

Although it may not seem like it at first, for a AM to find and merry a RW, and bring her back to the states to live ... it is VERY VERY MUTUAL challenge.  It is more than the looking, and financial abiltiy to pull it off ... it is entire life changer.  IS IT NOT?

I can hear the chorus beginning to sing:  "How the hell does Rivardco know?".  Well guys, you don't have to fall down the cliff to know it is a LONG PAINFUL fall.

[Taz]

I am pleased there is continued interest in JD’s saga. I don’t claim to have all the answers. I just report what I’ve seen and my assessment at the time. It is likely I’ve overlooked details but most likely they are minor. I should have written it all as it happened but I never thought that after almost 6 years JD would still be looking. Heck, he could have gotten 2 doctorate degrees in that time. 

I can honestly say that almost every time I learned from JD even if at times it was painful to watch. I think it made me better as a person as a large portion of the time he was searching for a woman I was married and not seeking a woman.

In the next episode I’ll detail the FINAL trip of JD. Final as in according to JD, it will be his last trip. This is the trip where JD finally has to confront his own demons. I think this is when he finally realizes there is no light at the end of the tunnel. He had 2 good wingmen helping him out for about half of his trip.

I totally altered all my personal plans to give him the best chance of success. I threw away an apartment in a town that I prepaid for 10 days just to stay in one town to help him out. I rented a car just to make it more convenient to go from town to town in order to help him out. In spite of everything I did for him, I am then ultimately blamed by him for many of his failures as if I caused personally caused them.

Ultimately I may write about some of the other less important ladies he met that point out how screwed up RW can be as well. Some of these women would have you shaking your head in dismay likely as much as you have with JD at times. There are some real losers among these RW. One thing I will give JD credit for is he didn’t look to too young of a woman in general.

I do agree he has a pretty big OC streak in his character. When I saw his garage floor was cleaner than most people’s tables, I new there was something lurking there emotionally. Quite honestly I wasn’t prepared for the depth of it or how intense it could be at times. During normal, non-stressful situations it is not so obvious. Once he is out of his native environment, he reverts back to what is his nature and that he can’t easily suppress.

I am open to specific questions about JD’s saga if there is something you think might be relevant but I haven’t yet mentioned. I have tried to find a balance between enough detail without being too wordy while still making it interesting enough to read without affecting the content.

[tim 360]

Taz, Thanks for your posts about JD and your role in trying to help him.  Sadly, the guy has issues which appear to be unsurmountable with regards to having a quality relationship with anybody.  You have taken a good deal of time detailing his adventures and your efforts to help a problematic guy.  No good deed goes unpunished.  I am sure he is not a singular case in this RW pursuit and thanks for shining the light on it and other aspects, Cheers, tim360

[Taz]

Well it appears after talking to JD, my planned final chapter in his RW adventure may not be the final chapter after all. It appears after assessing his local options again, it might be worth searching for RW again.

The following is a test of the emergency JD alert system. This is just a test. Should an actual emergency be declared, you will be notified in red letters.
Warning! If you a Russian woman (act or look like one) JD may be in your area in a few months. Take shelter at that time and don't come out until I give you the signal! This ends our test of the emergency JD alert system. Thank you for your cooperation!

I would almost swear he must have been reading this thread but I've never told him about this website. He would come here and try and attract the beautiful women like Lily! I told him very bluntly that I have no plans to help him unless he has a major change in his attitude and treats people better. I also suggested he study his Russian so he won't need any help from others.

I told him I can't help him if it will be like the last few trips. It was emotionally very stressful and I feel my help wasn't appreciated even though it was definitely needed. Maybe if he improves his Russian he will feel less stressed out and be a little less OCD. Anyway I'll post the latest episode of the JD saga.

[SANDRO43]

I told him very bluntly that I have no plans to help him

Taz, why don't you turn him over to Eduard ? That'd give them both an opportunity to show their own mettle .