looking for travel advice from the experienced

[kkhoustontx]

A friend and I are just starting to plan a trip in June to Odessa but plan to go to some other areas of the Ukraine. This is our first trip. Is it easier/better to use public transportation or to rent a car? Is it true that I will be able to use my ATM card there? Cell phones, I think I was told it is very smart to rent one there? Any interpreter, ideas? Neither one of us speak Russian or Ukrainian.  We really are going as tourists but are very interested in meeting women there. Anyone offering input knowledge would be greatly appreciated. Such as money, credit cards or travel lists? Thanks!  Kerry

[BC]

ATM's are available in most many larger towns, but check on your ATM card/bank website for an ATM locator to see where they are at the cities you are visiting.

Quite sparse when it comes to accepting credit cards for restaraunts and smaller hotels though.

Regarding cell phones don't know about rental, but it might be cheaper just buying a cheap or used phone there if yours is not already one of the tri-band models.  Think it's easy to get a prepaid type SIM card in Ukraine, but might be a bit more difficult in RU.  

[Jack]

Hey Kerry.
 
Don't even think about renting a car. Use public transportation. You will be amazed at how efficient their mass transit is and the cost is really cheap.
 
I am not sure all ATM's will work. I do know that the Visa ATM with the Cirrus logo (and one other type logo) will work everywhere in the fsu.
 
Yep, rent a cell phone. Guys who do will never make such a trip again without one. It is your lifeline to help at any time.
 
It would be better if you did not have to use an interpreter, that is communicating with ladies who can speak at least a little English, and often that is all it takes, a little English. But you will also probably meet some ladies you have interest in and should plan on spending about $5 an hour for interpreter.

[Jack]

Think it's easy to get a prepaid type SIM card in Ukraine, but might be a bit more difficult in RU.
 
BC, your right about that. A little trick we have learned with guys traveling from Ukr to Russia or Belarus or Moldova, load up on your cell time in Ukr, get a LOT of minutes, and then travel to Russia and you can use the time on your card.

[Stirlitz]

I would advise to hire a driver with car. It costs about $0.35 per kilometer and in my view is worth it. Trains are pain in the ass (I mean it), buses are only good between Kiev and Odessa probably.

I think you can use your ATM but you should have some cash you on too. You do not have to carry $10K but $1K to $2K is OK. You don't have to worry, you are quite safe here.

Cell phone? If you have a GSM phone you can get a SIM chip for $10 and use it anywhere in Ukraine. Superjeans is the best since it never expires and calls are relatively cheap, about $0.25 around Ukraine regardless of who you are calling.

Interpreter, it's me. I have done such jobs. But $5 an hour is a little bit old-fashioned nowadays. I used to charge that years ago when prices (especially gas) were  much lower. But when traveling this way, it is daily rather than hourly fee.

Top five major cities that you should visit while in Ukraine (by regions):

• Kiev (North) [/*]
  
• Odessa (South) [/*]
  
• Lvov (West) [/*]
  
• Dnepropetrovsk (East) [/*]
  
• Sevastopol (Crimea)

In addition, you may also want to go to [/*]

• Harkov [/*]
  
• Nikolayev [/*]
  
• Herson [/*]
  
• Simferopol [/*]
  
• Yalta[/*]

[Jack]

Hey Stirlitz,
 
First I would say that I would hope most men would not need an interpreter on a daily basis, but hopefully for only a few 1 or 2 hour meetings. I think if a guy needs an interpreter all day he's probably in trouble.
 
You may have charged $5 an hour for your interpreting services some 3 years ago and charge more today, but as of a last week we were still getting TOP quality interpreters thru-out all Ukraine for $5 an hour with the exception of Kiev and Kherson. Kherson is pretty much $6 an hour and Kiev from $6 to $8. Ocassionally we might have to use an interpreter in Odessa who charges more than $5 but this is usually in the spring when their might be a lot of request for interpreters.
 
I think my top five cities to visit in Ukraine will differ from yours but I can understand why you would recommend 6 of the top 10 that are close to you.
 
My top five, Kiev, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk, Kharkov, Yalta. Second five would be Chernvosti, Lviv, Lugansk, Kherson, Simferopol. Third five, Krivoy Rog, Sevastopol, Zaporozhye, Poltava, Vinnitsa.
 

[An_adult-male]

map.odessa.net

http://www.odessacity.nm.ru/map.htm

http://www.odessaglobe.com/russian/map.htm

Stayed @ the Black Sea Hotel just 4 blocks from the Train Station.

We (ladies with me) walked a ton in Odessa. Off line I can help you

a ton. Use the maps if you like. They sure have the eaterys in Odessa.

   With so many agencies in Odessa, that gettting a dinner date is

not even a problem. All could speak English good enough I dated. Use

http://www.loveclub.com.us/staff_en.htm

Where else do you want to go? Kiev will be great in June as well.

Note: I had two International ATM cards. One I know worked the

other a local bank said it would work. I no longer use that bank.

It is hard to get a card to work in Ukraine. Had used http://www.hotelsukraine.com

and was not total happy with them. So many other to use with better price.

Chernoye Mope = Black Sea Hotel is in photo with train station = BoK3a^

[Jack]

Adult-Male, the link you included did not work, try this  http://www.loveclub.com.ua

This is a good agency I have worked with in Odessa for the last 4 or 5 years. Marina L and her staff run's a pretty good agency.

[An_adult-male]

Thanks Jack, (for covering for me,)

  I hope you understand that Odessa is visited by many other nations. From

the prospective of hearing "I'm Italian" on the beach. Don't worry the Ukrainian women are well use to the Georgian men. If you look at the maps, it's from the train station (BOK3A^) to the city center where the 5 star hotels are located. Well not all are 5 star. Don't listen to B.S. buy the First class ticket on the train to the next city your going to go off to. Been there done that. All the hotels have a travel agent which can get you a ticket. Or go to the train station and get it at cost. Warning you will need to speak Russian or have a letter that explains what you want in Russian. Good Luck!

[acrzybear]

If you can have your lady purchase the ticket, there is a BIG difference in pricing if you are a westerner.  I thought I was getting a good deal (I was by American standards) and proudly told her what I was going to pay for the train tickets.  Well she was shocked at how much it would have been, She insisted on purchasing the tickets and they were a fraction of what I was quoted.  My proud male ego was put into check!!  (so much for impressing her with my bartering skills) I wanted her to keep the change, but as usual she refused to. 

[Stirlitz]

Jack, and don't you find it funny when, for example, gasoline in Ukraine costs exactly as much as it does in America and interpretation rates differ ten times? A professional interpreter in the US would charge US$50 to 100 per hour. Why should Ukrainian interpreters charge $5? Of course we don't pay as much taxes and insurance, and some things such as food probably cost less… but the difference is huge anyway.

If you can have your lady purchase the ticket, there is a BIG difference in pricing if you are a westerner.

Hm, as far as I know, train tickets cost the same for anyone.

[Jack]

Train ticket's do cost the same now, but this was not the case only 1.5 years ago.  The two tier pricing was suppose to be done away with, and for the most part has, although their are still a few isolated cases where someone thinks they can pull it off and they usually do if the foreigner does not know. What I think acrzybear does not know is that his lady cannot legally buy his ticket, but with a copy of his passport and a well placed $5, it can happen.
 
Stirlitz, to answer your question "Why should Ukrainian interpreters charge $5?" Because you can get MANY quality interpreters for this price.
 
Stirlitz, if you can charge more then it is a sign you are good and have plenty of clients so you can charge more for your services. Our associate Rostick also charges a few dollars more to be an interpreter in Kiev for the same reason, he is good and has many clients who are willing to pay that to retain him. Many times people have thought he was American because of his English. But I literally know 105 excellent interpreters thru-out Ukraine who charge $5 an hour and are happy to get each and every client they can.

[kkhoustontx]

THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL THE INFO! KEEP IT COMING! I forgot to ask a basic question. I have only needed my passport in the past for traveling abroad. Will we need a tourist VISA or anything else to get around the Ukraine?

[Goombah]

Absolutely need a VISA.  Search this board for instructions on how to get one, I just posted them this weekend.

Kevin C.

[kkhoustontx]

Thanks Kevin! I found it....

[Admin]

If you can have your lady purchase the ticket, there is a BIG difference in pricing if you are a westerner.

Hm, as far as I know, train tickets cost the same for anyone. [/quote]

Igor,

A basic principle of capitalism is that of supply and demand. When supply outstrips demand, the price-point declines. In this case, it is now pretty easy to find people in Ukraine who can speak English well enough to act as an interpreter. Now admittedly, there is a GIANT difference betwen a professional translator, and the college kid that has studied American movies and has a terrific command of spoken English.

I have met with members of Ukrainian government who could speak no English, and even though I can muddle my way through most Russian conversations, I paid for a professional translator who had formal training at the Moscow Institute for Language. His rates are considerably more than a university student who is completing English studies.

The reason I paid more is - I needed a higher-level of competency, and the competition of professionals ALL charged the higher rate.

But most guys don't need that level of professional support for meeting ladies - and THAT competition is reasonably-priced. Certainly it is MUCH lower rate than the equivalent service in the USA.

Let me give you another example. I have my haircut at an extremely nice shop on Krasnoarmiskaya. I think I spend about $20 US each time. That is *almost* as much as I would pay in the US - BUT - the amount of time the lady spends cutting my hair just perfect is about three times the amount of time - probably an hour as opposed to 20 minutes (if that) in the US. I also have had my hair cut in Kremenchug for about 15 Hr. ($3) - and it was done well. It is merely a matter of supply and demand.

BTW - the road to riches is to find a product/service in which the demand is high - and the cost to deliver is low. Look around - see where there is very high margin business. Find the opportunity to enter that business and provide the product/service for even lower costs - OR - provide a higher quality that people are willing to purchase at a premium. Do this, and you will get rich.

Best of luck to you.

- Dan

[5150]

I used one interpretor in Kiev who was a young girl provided by the agency. Very pretty even invited me to party with her when thigs didn't work out with MY girl.:dude: But when she WAS interpreting I was not too happy. Spent WAY too much time talking WITH the lady.
Rostick is EXCEPTIONAL. I too was extremely impressed with his English. Heck, he speaks better English than many guys I went to school with.
But personally my favorite would be Galina from FirstDream. She does a great job translating & does not bs if she gets the feeling the lady is not straight up. She'll let you know. I truly appreciate that. I would venture to say I consider her a friend more than someone I use for business. Having said that when she "works" for me I treat it as such & not take advantage. I would suggest if your in the Kiev area do NOT hesitate to use either Rostick or Galina...that is if they are avaialable.

[An_adult-male]

Fly to Ukraine! Don't walk.

  Not funny? Ok you'll have to get over the big pond (Atlantic Ocean) so which airline do you use. Well LOT (Polish Airline) flies to Lvov, Odessa and Kiev. Yes, I know http://www.kievconnections.com does not have this listed. But Brett said he would add it and Baltic Airline. Yes you can go to Riga, Latvia from Kiev.

  If you want to save money the Rep. is in Chicago called Pol Travel on Archer Ave. in Chicago. They always have the lower price than even the web sites. LOT flies out of Chicago non-stop to Warsaw. For a beginner you'll never get a Visa into Ukraine with out showing your flight ticket out. Believe me I went threw all the problems with the consulte in Chiacgo. Of course, I was going to take the trains in from Warsaw.

 

  My first trip to Ukraine was very daring and I would never do it again the same way. But to give you an idea. Chicago to Warsaw same day next flight Warsaw to Lvov. Find Sasha a personnel driver to take me to the train station (BOK3A^) to go to the city Ternopol. Next day off to Vinnitsa (Which is south of Kiev) to meet Larisha of the Laura Agency. Note: Larisha is in Germany and the Laura agency has been closed. Meet this woman to party (Still having jet lag) with her friends(a couple) and then jump on a 2:00 AM train from Kiev to Odessa. Note: This city (Vinnitsa) is on the fast train from Kiev to Odessa as well on the return trip. Noting is fast by train. Arrive in the morning in Odessa to walk to the Black sea Hotel. Don't do this! Get set in and work that city.

   Now to answer how did I know the cities and the train time table. The Web site in Poland http://www.pkp.pl has most of Ukraine's trains listed. Note: names are at times spelled different. Like Vinnista is spelled Winniza. Use this to know when and where you can go. I never took a train that was not direct. No get off this train and wait for another. This web site has changed from its original design and feels better. Great stuff if you use it. Note: Lvov to Odessa has only two trains daily non-stop which depart Lvov @ 19:53 on P (=train) 26LJ and @ 0:29 after midnight on P 107. The 107 is a faster train and makes 6 stops. Of course the sixth is Odessa. In pkp.pl click the English (upper right) than to see what's available click Trains Time-Table...

   The price for First class is not cheap. But in the past I paid 5 r. (About $1) to go from Kiev to Vinnitsa during the day with the people. This is only a three hour ride. A Taxi ride is never under $50 bucks to do this same route. See 1st Class (Caxap)

   GOOD LUCK!

[Doug Salem]

Hey,

Good advice from Stirlitz - hire a car and driver, it's the best way to get from city to city in Ukraine. Every year Olga and I hire a car and driver to come 400 miles from Krivoy Rog (with Olga's parents in it), pick us up at Borispol, and take us all back to Krivoy Rog. Then the same thing in reverse when we leave.

Also, Stirlitz is right about paying interpreters. C'mon, don't be cheap! They work hard - it's a difficult job. I would be wary of any interpreter that is willing to work for only $5 per hour, no doubt they will find a way to get some more money out of you without your knowing it.

If you want some examples of how they do that, I can come up with a few. Stirlitz probably has better stories about that than I do.

I think its a big mistake to go cheap on communications. By that I mean electronic translators and "ladies who speak a little English." Some of the nicest ladies and maybe even YOUR soul mate speak absolutely no English (yet). Not speaking any English is a really bad reason for not considering a woman as a future wife.

Rather, I think it is better to pay for high-quality communications in spurts while spending lots of time getting to know, and trying to communicate with, your Russian date without any help. By this I mean, spend the first half of the day without a net - you and she both doing your best to communicate, then in the evening pay for a high-quality interpreter (like Stirlitz, for example) to spend an hour or two with you clarifying things you thought you communicated but weren't sure or got stuck on.

Ditto for written communications. One well-written, professionally translated (by a human) letter can clear up a whole week of misunderstandings.

I'll bet I spent a couple thousand dollars communicating with Olga before we got married. Best investment I ever made.

- Doug 2/too

[Muzh]

Cell phone? If you have a GSM phone you can get a SIM chip for $10 and use it anywhere in Ukraine. Superjeans is the best since it never expires and calls are relatively cheap, about $0.25 around Ukraine regardless of who you are calling.

 

Not completely true.  Any unlocked Tri-band cell will serve this purpose.  You can get good ones in the States.  I just bought a Sony Ericsson, brand new and factory unlocked for $149.00 and plan to use it here and in UA.

[Stirlitz]

Not completely true.  Any unlocked Tri-band cell will serve this purpose.  You can get good ones in the States.  I just bought a Sony Ericsson, brand new and factory unlocked for $149.00 and plan to use it here and in UA.

What does it matter. The phone must support the GSM technology anyway, be it a triband or dual or simply GSM-900.

[Jack]

Doug, I can assure you their are many fine and wonderful interpreters in Ukraine for $5 an hour. Next time your in Krivoy and you need a good interpreter for $5, you holler at me and I'll line them up.

[Stirlitz]

Doug, I can assure you their are many fine and wonderful interpreters in Ukraine for $5 an hour. Next time your in Krivoy and you need a good interpreter for $5, you holler at me and I'll line them up.

[align=justify]Jack you are so keen on promoting cheap interpreters and persuading everybody not to pay more than $5 that I am starting to wonder why. Perhaps you find pleasure knowing that someone is underpaid and cannot afford one per cent of what you can, and you can line them up at that.[/align]
[align=justify]

[align=justify]OK, let's see what we have here. $5 an hour at 8 hours a day, 5 days a week is $800 a month at best. And it is very important that it is the maximum. On the average most freelance interpreters get probably 30% of workload, which means they earn about $250 a month. To earn $800 means you have to find an employer who would keep you busy all the time, all month long, full day. Usually people who need translation have it for five days in a row at best. Then you wait for another customer. Sometimes you get two customers at a time and are forced to give up on one of them, sometimes you can have no work for a month. So $800 is absolutely unreal. $250 is what you take home averaged over many months and all your overheads paid. Yes, of course there are 'happy' months when you can make $400 to 500, and in some cases even more. But then you can get nothing for a few months.[/align]
[align=justify][/align]
[align=justify]Which is actually the poverty line in Ukraine. Of course the official poverty line is set ridiculously low by the government, actually lower than the same government charge its citizens for apartment rents, etc. But let's not be unsubstantiated. Imagine you live in an average two or three room apartment in a city. First of all you pay for the apartment. About $10. Heating -- about $20. Electricity -- it depends but average is I would say $15. Telephone subscription -- about $5. Cell phone is censored expensive, up to $0.5 per minute, $0.3 on the average, so even if you use it for damned 5 minutes a day for outgoing calls, you will get a $50 bill every month. Internet costs: typically around $30 a month. Public transportation and cabs: about $20 a month. Food: one person can eat about $90 a month though I am not sure if you, Jack, would like to eat this way on a daily basis. Plus some snacks that you have to buy sometimes in cafes, etc. It will add another $10. What do we have? $250 a month minimum. That is what I call the poverty line because if you spend all the money on basic costs such as bills and food, you are deep in poverty.[/align]
[align=justify][/align]
[align=justify]Remember, other people may not need all the Internet, cells, but we are talking about interpreters who must also improve their English, take her of their appearance, teeth, etc. A suit costs about $100, a pair of shoes $30 to 40, to fix a tooth $20. As far as I can see you mean that someone else will have to pay for it. Also, you imply that if tax police goes our way we can simply smile and tell them we don't make anything. What about serious costs such as buying a car or apartment? At $5 you can bury the very hope of that. At $250 a month you will have trouble maintaining your flat in a good condition, let alone buying any property. God forbid you or your relatives to get seriously sick. And, what about people who don't own their apartments and have to rent for $100 a month?[/align]
[align=justify][/align]
[align=justify]So thank you Jack for promoting poverty in Ukraine. Unfortunately there are too many desperate people here who are ready to work for any $, and the likes of you seem to enjoy the opportunity. I feel shame for our people who are willing to work for anything, sometimes literally free (did you hear about many months' backlogs in salaries). But it's changing. The latest events in Kiev show that our people have changed. They are not slaves any more.[/align]
[align=justify][/align]
[align=justify]The reason I will not work for $5 is not that I realize it is just below poverty line, and not because I have enough good customers. The reason is I respect myself and respect my country and I am not going to submit to cheap Americans. Fortunately, I have met a lot of kind and generous Americans, so I don't have to think all Americans are this way. But I have little respect for the cheap ones. [/align]
[align=justify][/align]
By the way it is funny. Line up means a lot to choose from. Actually I cannot think of many good interpreters in Odessa which is a large city with lots of tourists and foreigners. I don't think that Krivoy Rog is better off in this respect. Of course, if you mean students whose bills are paid by their parents, $5 a day is not bad probably. But hey, who's talking about interpreters here? How can you be sure that the interpreters you mention are really good? You can never be sure unless you know Russian. If you know Russian, you don't need interpreters. Catch-22. Do you know what a good $5 interpreter is? The one who never gets lost if they don't understand something, and can always say something rather than being silent. I have seen such 'interpreters' in action. What they do is talk, talk, talk. But not necessarily translate. And they indeed will find a way to cheat more money out of you without you realizing it.[/align]
Igor Kalinin

[Bruno]

Hello Igor,

I think that the price of 5$ hour for translator ( quality service ) is very low... but the real question is other...

Why use a translator on a first date ?

When dating Russian women from marriage or dating agencies, the issue of whether to use a translator on the first date will often come up. In fact, the agencies will usually offer it to you, so they can make some extra money. Whether to bring one on a first date or not is a tricky issue, and I can't give a firm yes or no answer. But here are some things to consider.

If you aren't confident of your communication skills, and are meeting a lady who can't speak any English, then it may help you feel more comfortable to bring a translator. However, there are some pitfalls to using a translator on your first date.

1) First, some women depend so much on the translator, that they only talk to him/her and rarely even look at you. This makes the date very awkward, and you even feel like you're dating the translator rather than your date. And it also makes it hard for you to read the lady's body language as well, since it's mostly geared toward the translator rather than to you.

2) Second, it makes the date more like a crowded three than a romantic two.

3) Third, the purpose of the first date is to see if there is enough chemistry or attraction for a second date. A translator will not usually make a difference in that (though some may disagree with me). Chemistry and attraction tend to be subjective things, and finding out more basic facts about each other isn't usually going to influence that.

4) Finally, if there is no chemistry and no second date, then the money you spent on the translator would have been a waste, since you could have found out the same thing without one.

Therefore, what I suggest is that if you can deal with the basic communication, save the translator for subsequent dates, when you two have more serious and in-depth things to talk about.

[Doug Salem]

Jack,

No thanks. My money is on Igor. In case you hadn't heard I am really down on old Western farts gallivanting around Ukraine exploiting the aspiring young people there.

Paying a professional interpreter like Igor, who is independent and doesn't have any conflicts of interest (unless you're courting his sister or girlfriend), will be well worth it.

Igor,

Don't let him get your goat. "Cheap is as cheap does" or whatever they say.

Bruno, 

There are two assumptions that don't fit, and which I hold to be extremely limiting in terms of being successful in finding a nice, sincere Russian wife.

First, that said man would meet the women through a so-called "marriage agency" (which has a conflict of interest when it comes to the man's need for an interpreter).  Yes, you are right about the conflict of interest with regards to interpreters, but my own personal opinion is that using a "marriage agency" to introduce you to women is a bad way to go. Selling Western men interpreters is just one of their conflicts of interest. Even worse, the "agencies" sell the men meetings with women who aren't really interested in them (but whom the Western men are HIGHLY interested in, as they "pick them out" of the agencies' catalogues).

The so-called "marriage agencies" don't care if the Western men end up happily married. They just want them to come to their town and spend their money futilely trying to hook up with "their girls." They get cuts on everything from interpreters, to apartments and hotel rooms, to meals. They coerce the women to meet with the men whether they are interested in them or not. The women cooperate in hopes that Mr. Right might just sneak through this maze somehow, because the "marriage agencies" hold the power of cutting them off from that chance if they don't cooperate, and because they are starving and the lunches are free.

So when it comes to picking a professional, independent interpreter like Igor, there should be no conflict of interest because there shouldn't be a "marriage agency" involved. I don't know this for a fact, but it is my guess that if Igor ever does align himself with, or works through, a so-called "marriage agency" it is only because he is forced to do so in order to stay "billable." And that is only because so many Western guys prefer to rely on marriage agencies to meet the women rather than go at it independently.

And why do the guys prefer that? Well, because if they approached those same women independently a lot of them wouldn't give them the time of day - a vicious cycle of denial, co-dependency, enabling, and exploitation by all parties that makes me sick, gives the whole "Russian Mail Order Bride" phenomena it's seedy underbelly, and gets everybody jaded (the Russian women and the Western men).

For a real wake-up call, try approaching the Russian women you think you are interested in independently, if you dare. If you are brave enough to try this, natural selection will match you up with the right Russian woman a hell of a lot more efficiently and accurately than any so-called "marriage agency" will. Of course, you may not get to lunch or go to the disco with that luscious supermodel-looking babe from the catalogue, and you will have to work a lot harder than just sitting on a plane, getting picked up at the airport, and letting somebody else do all the work.

O.K., enough of that rant for now.

The second assumption is that a Russian woman speaks enough English to communicate with the Western men on the first date, or that you should only go on first dates with Russian women who do.

Well, I have said it before and I will say it again, any Western guy who limits his search for a potential Russian wife to those who already speak some English is seriously shooting himself in the foot. There you sit, romantically, at a table with a colorful umbrella at a street side café on a main street in Novo Sonny Bonogorod, sipping "milk cocktails" with a super-hot Russian babe who is ignoring you and treating you like shite in her marriage agency "Level 3" English. While on the sidewalk your soul mate passes by, unable to tell you what you are missing because she doesn't speak any English (yet).

I, for one am glad, glad oh-so-glad I took the time and energy, and paid the money, to work my way through the language barrier with my now-wife Olga. She did not speak one word of English when I met her. A slow learner and shy, she only managed a few more words during our K-1 wait. WE used help, help, help; translators and interpreters. We got along fine and we got to know each other well enough to know that we were compatible and most likely headed toward marriage. And when Olga got to the U.S.; still only a few words of English. But then it came, and it came, and it came.

How did I know Olga would eventually learn English and do just fine? Well, a professional, independent, fairly-compensated INTERPRETER told me she said she would.

Doug S.

www.goeastnow.com