Money changes everything

[myrddin]

For the interpretation of this and other typical FSUW profile expressions, you could have a look at our Russglish Glossary (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/mwiki/index.php?title=Russglish_Glossary) .

Thanks   I did read the FAQ and the Glossary (and then many thousands of words of posts) before I jumped in.  Of course it never hurts to look at it again.

"able to support a family of 3 or 4 comfortably".  I'm just trying to get a grip on the likelihood that my idea of "comfortably" would match hers, that's all.  There's some wiggle room in that term

Also, to everybody, if RW are so much better than AW,

Personally, I don't think RW are better than AW.  People are people, but the culture we grow up has a great influence on us.  I think that I have a better chance of finding the right woman for me in the FSU, probably not an uncommon view among men on this particular forum.  

it is pride but not boastfulness. Elders from this board will support me in this because they, as some humbly admitted it and not once, are not worth their wives. Because their Russian wives are beautiful, educated and smarter than them. Yes, it is true, I believe them...there is something to be truly proud of...

One day I hope to join the ranks of men who are not worthy of their wives!  

[mspanky]

 If a man doesn't feel worthy of his wife thee must be a reason why. If he's successful, has a good personality,why does he feel inferior. Does he feel his age or looks does not match up to what she may really want sexually? I don't get why anyone would feel they don't deserve the wife the have unless they are not the total package and feel insecure somehow.

[BC]

Elders from this board will support me in this because they, as some humbly admitted it and not once, are not worth their wives. Because their Russian wives are beautiful, educated and smarter than them. Yes, it is true, I believe them...there is something to be truly proud of...

Not declaring myself an elder here, but when asked why she accepted my proposal,  one of two responses usually ensue:

Version 1: Because you were clever!

Version 2: Because I was drunk!

Maybe these response are somehow related??

 

[AnastassiaAsh]

If a man doesn't feel worthy of his wife thee must be a reason why. If he's successful, has a good personality,why does he feel inferior. Does he feel his age or looks does not match up to what she may really want sexually? I don't get why anyone would feel they don't deserve the wife the have unless they are not the total package and feel insecure somehow.

This is correct. I want to believe though that our successful couples are happy because in reality both of these men and women are worth each other, they accepted each other for who they are and truly love each other. They may say so some times humbly but i think they are on the same level as their wives. They are such gentlemen who say that 'woman is always right' or something of this kind. It is very nice to hear this for us women and we may reply 'Of course, dear, but I wouldn't have become who I am with out you!' There is a difference between real inferiority complex and just being nice and adore your wife and still being confident and worthy partner to her...

[Misha]

Also, to everybody, if RW are so much better than AW, why do you think they do not have a right or even just a desire to live in a better house or a better car? If AW have all this and they are so much worse, surely you should be willing to give all this to RW who truly deserve it all. But no, it seems like all of you want both pure, honest and unmaterialistic woman AND do not want to appreciate it.  This smells abuse and torture.

I can't really speak of AW (I am Canadian after all), but I wouldn't say that RW are automatically better or worse than Canadian women. However, one thing to keep in mind is that a marriage is a partnership and in North America usually both the man and the wife will work. Not necessarily because they want, but because they have to work to pay the mortgage and maintain their lifestyle. If the woman wants to stay at home, this will require some sacrifices in most couples and this doesn't matter if it is a AM+AW couple or an AM+RW couple. The simple fact of the matter is that for most couples in Canada (and I would presume the same is true in the USA), if they want to drive better cars and live in a nicer home, both will have to work. It is not a question of giving or not giving or a question of "abuse and torture" but a question of simple economics.

[Daveman]

Daveman,

I won't put you in that category because I know you don't live in a trailer and you make more than 30K let's say. So I wouldn't worry if I were you but at the same time be realistic and charm ladies not only with your humour. It is all awesome but one needs more than that, and you got it! ok?  :angel: 

Christian people would understand me absolutely right. It's the same way when we have to marry only 'equally yoked', it doesn't mean that non-christian men are bad, it is just they are not for us, and vice versa.

Thanks Anastassia... I know, I know, I know... I am a hypocrite to a degree when I speak about money.  You know much more about me than most though.

 

If it seems I'm being harsh here in the thread to Anastassia I certainly don't mean it that way.  Just trying to get the dialog a little deeper.  She's amazing at what she does and she works with me to help me in the RW pursuit every day because I do trust her completely.  Truly, I could not recommend her highly enough... not only does she translate letters beautifully so each can freely communicate in native language (expressing idioms cross language in a way where you truly understand what the other MEANS - even if the lady is great with English, communication in native tongue in the early phases allows you to learn so much more about her) but also points out things we as men would naturally miss during correspondence, even when we understand it.  I also met her late husband several years ago when I worked with Microsoft.. (amazing how small the world really is sometimes) a very charming gentleman and also an Age of Empires geek (though I'll never admit my addiction to computer games on a forum where I'm supposed to be an adult.. at least sometimes).  Anastassia isn't at all the way she could be taken in this thread.  She's really a very down to earth, classy lady with normal goals and dreams and a total pleasure to work with.  Top notch.

Anyway, back to the topic:

Okay, so, yes, I've accomplished many things, but I really don't see anything wrong with "aspiring" to have a more simplistic life as long as I concentrate on meeting ladies who share that dream of a simple family life.  I've put in enough 60-80-100 hr weeks, and now I just want to kick back and enjoy *living*.  I want that simple life my parents had.  I don't think having simple dreams or goals is a bad thing at all. Some aspire to achieve and some aspire to enjoy, others aspire to do both in a variety of combinations.  I respect people who are happy with what they have, even if it is not much and it is all they want.  What I don't respect are those who are not happy, whine about it, and don't get off their butts to do something about it. The latter are the lazy losers, the former are just simple people with simple dreams (and are just as successful as anyone else because they are indeed happy in life) - and that's the feeling we all strive for, but we each have our own visions and definitions of what will give us that "feeling".  Make sure they match. "Equally yoked" is an excellent way to say it.

About AW vs FSUW - when AW can master speaking English with a beautiful and sexy Russian accent, then they'll be equal.. 

Dave

[Jumper]

i DO see a lot of good points in this thread-

but i enjoy playing devils advocate-


and so I  also still see a lot of justifications,
 for why a  normal *average life*  RW should  expect better than her AW sisters have on *average* , or she will be unhappy in her choice.
  
Intentionally looking or expecting a minimum standard is certainly realistic,
this point keeps being brought up,
and i think everyone agrees with it!!
having some *rational minimum* standard  isnt the question at hand. ?

but when we are looking into the topic of RW establishing a "minimum" income requirment for a partner,
the very natural question is:
  at what level does this become true gold digging..??
or at the least , materialism?

Above (western) average ,just above the average, well above the average?
ogilarch?
where is that line drawn?

ok -
A man that  chases mostly  boob size  
still has the  same shallow label attached to him.
(and no justification can be made because he is poor, or rich, beauty or beast )

so do we also draw a line of where his shalowness occurs?
a minimum cup size?
a cup? b cup? c cup? dd cup?

no *we* dont?
 he is consided quite shallow if he is using any cup size at all,
 to exclude potential partners.

As  mentioned i'm way past being PC on this topic.
and dont mind asking the rather obvious questions ,even if they are uncomfortable.

This forum ,on this topic , continues to suggest that the *average*
 western man ,is not a good prospect for success in this venture.
(and yes he would be meeting  normally an avarage RW)

The justifications are many ,and include:
"let him have the average american woman"
"he is just as shallow, for looking for beauty or youth"

I do not disagree !!!!
but i am pointing out they are justifications,
they are not reasons why the average RW should expect/feel *entilted* to  more
 than average being a given in marriage to a western man...
and by saying an average western man is a poor prospect for success in this venture ,that is exactly what is being portrayed?



I find it odd-

Noone mentions if an new average  FSU couple ,
immigrates to the west, neither the RW ,or RM involved ,
will expect the other to suddenly be above the western standard?
in fact they will both look  foward to the oppurtunities fo rthemselves and thier possible children

If they had good stable job offers at average income,
for the areathey were relocating to -
the members on this board knowing the realities of both societies,
would wish them well, and with the normal caveats positively  recommend they  immigrate !!!
 and it certainly would not be hinged on them being able to
start out *above average* western  lifestyle.
 



yet a single RW , immigrating to the west on a K1,
this board has a different "advise" for her , and her potential suitors.


while maybe good advise,
it is, at the very least, quite interesting.. ??







 

[Jumper]

Anastasia said

It's the same way when we have to marry only 'equally yoked'

Ana,
you know  i am not taking you wrong, and appreciate your candor in this thread , and your always good advise ..

We are talking  the average couples that meet in this process.

At what point when an average RW that a western man meets, is not equally yoked with him?
(financially and in general)

of course there are huge variations individually..
but for generalities sake,,?

i met a lot of  normal lifestyle  RW ,
Certainly good people!!
but there is no way to say they would not be *equally yoked*
 with a average western man , that can afford the trips etc..
and that same man, many here are saying he had better look very closely at his finances before pursueing this.

while i agree he should (yes in this respect i'm being hypocritical)

noone finds that odd?

except me.

hmmm

LOL!

[pitbull]

AJ,

Could you please define an "average" AM and "RW"  (explain what you mean by this) using the following categories: Education, income, looks, age...?

Thanks!

[docetae]

About expecting better, this is not linked to AM or RW... this is linked to move from one country to one another. When you decide to leave your country, your family, your friends, you expect to do it for a better life... What is better is depending of the person, but even for the more spiritual mind, material things will always come back in daily routine and will have an impact on her... We live in a capitalistic system, so money is one if the factor that make life better, got some or none, hate it or like it, we all live with it.

[AnastassiaAsh]

It becomes true gold digging in case of Anna Nicole Smith, when it is laughable and obvious…

I personally don’t think that ‘he is considered quite shallow if he is using any cup size at all, to exclude potential partners.’ He just has to fit the desires of that woman too and it will be a match. And that woman would be picky too, just in other areas. That’s all.

Take for example height, I included that into my search, it IS important to me for my man to be higher than me, the more the better actually, i am 5’7’ myself. So what? Is this shallow on my part? Not at all. I just want a guy to be tall on top of other important things in my list. I don’t see it as shallow. I just know exactly what type of man i will be attracted to.

I am not sure what ‘average’ is. I would say for me those men who earn 50K and higher will be quite comfortable in this endeavor. What is average? I don’t know.

AJ, you started comparing Russian couples who immigrated here with RW who want to come here on K1. This is how I look at it. Those married Russian couples who immigrate here do exactly that – immigrate – they come for better life, better jobs. You know that i came here through K1 too. Well, I did not immigrate! I was not looking for ‘better life’ or better job. I was quite comfortable where i was in Moscow. But I married an American man. This is different in my opinion. I am sacrificing everything and giving all of my heart and soul to an American citizen, I take care of him, give him perfect environment to work in, make him happy and so on and so forth…Excuse me, this is not even close to immigration. This is million light years beyond that. Risk is higher, sacrifice is bigger, intentions are totally different – hence the ‘advice’ is different.

I didn’t quite get your second post where you said: i met a lot of  normal lifestyle  RW ,Certainly good people!! but there is no way to say they would not be *equally yoked*with a average western man , that can afford the trips etc..
and that same man, many here are saying he had better look very closely at his finances before pursueing this while i agree he should (yes in this respect i'm being hypocritical) noone finds that odd?"

What did you mean?

And also it is quite hard to read your posts.  quite original placement of lines etc. There is no beginning and no end in your sentences, and then when you think it is the end it is not. So hard to digest it.

[AnastassiaAsh]

About expecting better, this is not linked to AM or RW... this is linked to move from one country to one another. When you decide to leave your country, your family, your friends, you expect to do it for a better life... What is better is depending of the person, but even for the more spiritual mind, material things will always come back in daily routine and will have an impact on her... We live in a capitalistic system, so money is one if the factor that make life better, got some or none, hate it or like it, we all live with it.

He-he, spot on!

[AnastassiaAsh]

If it seems I'm being harsh here in the thread to Anastassia I certainly don't mean it that way.  Just trying to get the dialog a little deeper.  She's amazing at what she does and she works with me to help me in the RW pursuit every day because I do trust her completely.  Truly, I could not recommend her highly enough... not only does she translate letters beautifully so each can freely communicate in native language (expressing idioms cross language in a way where you truly understand what the other MEANS - even if the lady is great with English, communication in native tongue in the early phases allows you to learn so much more about her) but also points out things we as men would naturally miss during correspondence, even when we understand it.  I also met her late husband several years ago when I worked with Microsoft.. (amazing how small the world really is sometimes) a very charming gentleman and also an Age of Empires geek (though I'll never admit my addiction to computer games on a forum where I'm supposed to be an adult.. at least sometimes).  Anastassia isn't at all the way she could be taken in this thread.  She's really a very down to earth, classy lady with normal goals and dreams and a total pleasure to work with.  Top notch.
Dave

Thank you Dave so much for this paragraph.  You are an amazing man and you are 'doomed' for happiness with a RW and her adoration of you.

Again - the most important thing for me is to help you all in this, and I truly care about each and every man and woman who asks for my help. To ensure your happiness is my ultimate goal. I am very happy in my marriage and I would want all of you to experience the same. 

[myrddin]

Take for example height, I included that into my search, it IS important to me for my man to be higher than me, the more the better actually, i am 5’7’ myself. So what? Is this shallow on my part? Not at all. I just want a guy to be tall on top of other important things in my list. I don’t see it as shallow. I just know exactly what type of man i will be attracted to.

I've heard that less than one percent of husbands are shorter than their wives. (Sorry, can't find verification at the moment, saw it on documentary several years ago.)  Even if that's shallow, it seems like it's programmed in at the genetic level.

[Bart]

About expecting better, this is not linked to AM or RW... this is linked to move from one country to one another. When you decide to leave your country, your family, your friends, you expect to do it for a better life... What is better is depending of the person, but even for the more spiritual mind, material things will always come back in daily routine and will have an impact on her... We live in a capitalistic system, so money is one if the factor that make life better, got some or none, hate it or like it, we all live with it.

Of course this is true.  Well expressed.

[Turboguy]

so money is one if the factor that make life better, got some or none, hate it or like it, we all live with it.

I can agree that not having money usually makes life worse but once you have enough for a normal life how does money make life better?

[Jumper]

Pitbull said

Could you please define an "average" AM and "RW"  (explain what you mean by this) using the following categories: Education, income, looks, age...?

Thanks!

Pitbull-
Because this topic was "money changes everything"
In my examples, I  was sticking strickly to the definition of finances,
 or average *lifestyle*(income)
I meant that they both, before meeting , living a lifetstyle that is considered the norm,
the average , for thier respective countries.

and it should be duly noted,  that I am playing devils advocate

My questions are towards the topic's cordual debate  , and to offer a counter position ,
to some of the points made within it.
Hopefully to draw out a more clear understanding on all views.

They are not always my personal  stance, or my perception of the world!

i do recognize the many other factors involved, but in this thread we are talking "lifestyle or salary".


Ana-
I will attempt to clarify my post. This topic was fundamentaly financial, you brought up the point that a married couple should be "equally yoked".
I agree.
The thread was insinuating  strongly , that a western man of average salary,and lifestyle, is not enough,or barely sufficient in this endeavor.
So I was raising the question,given that the RW the man is most likely to meet has an equal "lifestyle" ,  why is this not the perfect example of "equaly yoked" ?

For the purposes of this thread , they have equal backgrounds in lifestyle.
Certainly within thier own respective cultures they would , marry the same.

Yet in the context of WM/RW, this dynamic changes.
The justifications then continue, that she is leaving all she has,,
so this trade up in lifestyle is compensation, or the "why" she would consider it.

I do not disagree!
but am I allowed to point out that it is still a justification for a materialistic action?
This same RW would not simple "expect" it in her homeland.It amounts to a raised expectation of the  husband , based solely on his nationality, or the situation.

Is this understandible actions? or thinking ?  Absolutely!
(trust me , i completely understand)

but it doesn't change the definition of those thoughts and  actions?
They define materialism.

 If a man traveling to the FSU *expects* or holds her to a higher standard of  "beauty"
based on her situation or her nationality. Things he would not "expect " or feel
*entitled to* in his own country.  Those actions are shallow.

But if a RW holds the western man to some higher standard of living  because of the situation  or his nationailty, it is glossed over  or justified in a million ways.


It's funny, I am simply pointing it out.That it exists on both sides of the equation.
 I am not condeming it, or saying it is bad.
To what degree ,is what was really in question.

It does not mean i do not undertstand the "whys" , empathise with them, or even agree with the reasons and justifications completely. (I often do)
We are all adults and know how the world operates!
 I do find it amusing the ways the heart of the matter gets dodged around though.

Ana- i think very highly of you,and i am using your words now,
only to illustrate a point, not to give you a hard time.

To define a person to marry as your life partner and soulmate, by thier  height,
 is shallow.

It is understandable, and it is very natural to only seek those you know you are attracted to.It is probably foolish even to do anything else.
 
but to truly believe this is not a bit  shallow, in the context of *who* the person really is,
or the quality of spiouse they can be???
   

Before you get defensive, rest assured ,by the words definition i am shallow as well.
I believe all people to be,again it is just the degree  ?
I do not have any criteria on a persons height, but if a woman weighs more than me ,
 i simply would not be attracted to her ,and it's not something i can control or change within myself,  and so we would simply not be a good match.It's the reality.
but  i cannot dodge the word.. this is shallow of me , because her phyisical attributes likely have very presious little to do with anything of substance.

To me this is the same as  any average income person anyhere,
having an *expectation* that thier spouse provide above average.
 it is being materialistic ..


Now I think I have made very much about nothing,
as this is simply how the world turns, how things "are".
I just see things  black and white, to me there is very little grey in the definitions
of those two words.
I can easily accept that this is how things are,but i do call them how i see them.

[alantodd]

Getting back to Page 1 of this post.  Does not matter what country a woman is from but money is important.  Women want security and money is part of that. Most women I have met in Kiev think all Americans are millionaires.  Really is not hard to be a millionaire in USA when your 35 plus years of age. Fact fairly easy to do that in Kiev and Moscow currently. Nothing wrong with a RW who expects her future husband to be good mannered and successful which in todays society is measured on your pay check and networth.  Not measured on being a good teacher, fire fighter, etc.

Stereotype of most AM with Russian wives is probably true.  And that is why a lot of AM get divorces with RW when there wives can trade up. I know a lot of RW who have done this or planning on doing this.  But a smart AM will be very upfront with his future wife.  Tell her where he fits in class and status.  So there is no surprises.   The married couples on this discussion board have done that in their relationship. 

My fiance likes money and a man to treat her like a queen.  I like women who want a successful respectful man.  Does that mean I bought her.  Most on this board would say yes.  But I met her on a business trip.  Really had no intention on a overseas relationship.  Never wrote her one letter.  I do well at work and used to be a Calvin Klein model.  To tall to be a model longterm.  I visited her four times in person before anything very serious.  I am old fashioned.  Met her parents several times before getting serious.  After we were engaged, I bought her a very nice apartment right near River Palace overlooking the water on the river on top floor.  I have never been to River Palace and if I did my fiance would throw me to the curb.  Don't blame her based on the stories I have heard.  Buying an apartment is a no no on ten commandment list.  But I want my future wife to be taken care of.  Wear nice clothes, nice apartment, etc.  She has a debit card with a very high withdrawal limit and can take as much money as she likes. Another no no for this board.  But she always asks what she can take.  I always tell her take what you need.  Sometimes it is $5 sometimes several thousand.  Kiev is a very expensive city.  I have been there 19 times now since July 2006.

Also, my ex AW was great.  We just married to young and she liked sports and working to much for me (football is for the guys). Men who say AW are bad probably are not that desirable themselves.  There are many good AW unless your in California and New York (than I agree with you).  I want a traditional woman and I should expect this woman to want a successful man.  I agree with AnastassiaAsh.  Nothing wrong with her requiring financial stable man with good manners.  She has a child to think of.  I do disagree about if you were in America when you were born you would be rich.  It is easier to become rich in Russia right now than USA.  I was just in Iran and you can make ridiculous money there right now.

I also think the men on this board with good looking wives tend to have money or our a celebrity / athlete.  Your wives knew you were successful on how you act.  Women like successful man (provides security).  Men like beauty.

Most men I know who seek women in Ukraine never write letters or go on discussion boards.  They visit Ukraine often.  No key board / text messaging romeos here.  Once they fall and love and meet her parents they buy them an apartment.  Very big population of men doing this. Women in Kiev know this and the very good ones expect this. Not because there gold diggers.  But because they are worth it.  Women near 30 years of age or older remember standing in line to receive food, Chernobyl, several monetary collapses, mafia killing people.  They do not want this for their future families.  Sorry guys.  Money is important.

One thing RW do like and is unique to their countries is that they tend to like men over 40 years of age for marriage.  For a couple of reasons but mainly because you are less likely to cheat on them and you have a stable income.  You are serious about marriage and family and based on your age they believe you have money.

I am sure no on on this board uses Delphania.  Most of these girls are really serious at Delphania but very high expectations.  But if you want a great woman but you better be a great catch of a guy this is the place to go.  Major leagues.  If not got to Elena Models and the bush leagues.

[acrzybear]

Bear, sorry if it looked like I am writing about you, but I didn't really have you in mind, I don't know you really.

AnastassiaAsh

I appreciate the thought, but even if you were it's no big deal.  I don't take things personal (something I learned years ago in my line of work), besides how could anyone get mad at you

[deccie]

Getting back to Page 1 of this post.  Does not matter what country a woman is from but money is important.  Women want security and money is part of that. Most women I have met in Kiev think all Americans are millionaires.  Really is not hard to be a millionaire in USA when your 35 plus years of age. Fact fairly easy to do that in Kiev and Moscow currently. Nothing wrong with a RW who expects her future husband to be good mannered and successful which in todays society is measured on your pay check and networth.  Not measured on being a good teacher, fire fighter, etc.

Stereotype of most AM with Russian wives is probably true.  And that is why a lot of AM get divorces with RW when there wives can trade up. I know a lot of RW who have done this or planning on doing this.  But a smart AM will be very upfront with his future wife.  Tell her where he fits in class and status.  So there is no surprises.   The married couples on this discussion board have done that in their relationship. 

My fiance likes money and a man to treat her like a queen.  I like women who want a successful respectful man.  Does that mean I bought her.  Most on this board would say yes.  But I met her on a business trip.  Really had no intention on a overseas relationship.  Never wrote her one letter.  I do well at work and used to be a Calvin Klein model.  To tall to be a model longterm.  I visited her four times in person before anything very serious.  I am old fashioned.  Met her parents several times before getting serious.  After we were engaged, I bought her a very nice apartment right near River Palace overlooking the water on the river on top floor.  I have never been to River Palace and if I did my fiance would throw me to the curb.  Don't blame her based on the stories I have heard.  Buying an apartment is a no no on ten commandment list.  But I want my future wife to be taken care of.  Wear nice clothes, nice apartment, etc.  She has a debit card with a very high withdrawal limit and can take as much money as she likes. Another no no for this board.  But she always asks what she can take.  I always tell her take what you need.  Sometimes it is $5 sometimes several thousand.  Kiev is a very expensive city.  I have been there 19 times now since July 2006.

Also, my ex AW was great.  We just married to young and she liked sports and working to much for me (football is for the guys). Men who say AW are bad probably are not that desirable themselves.  There are many good AW unless your in California and New York (than I agree with you).  I want a traditional woman and I should expect this woman to want a successful man.  I agree with AnastassiaAsh.  Nothing wrong with her requiring financial stable man with good manners.  She has a child to think of.  I do disagree about if you were in America when you were born you would be rich.  It is easier to become rich in Russia right now than USA.  I was just in Iran and you can make ridiculous money there right now.

I also think the men on this board with good looking wives tend to have money or our a celebrity / athlete.  Your wives knew you were successful on how you act.  Women like successful man (provides security).  Men like beauty.

Most men I know who seek women in Ukraine never write letters or go on discussion boards.  They visit Ukraine often.  No key board / text messaging romeos here.  Once they fall and love and meet her parents they buy them an apartment.  Very big population of men doing this. Women in Kiev know this and the very good ones expect this. Not because there gold diggers.  But because they are worth it.  Women near 30 years of age or older remember standing in line to receive food, Chernobyl, several monetary collapses, mafia killing people.  They do not want this for their future families.  Sorry guys.  Money is important.

One thing RW do like and is unique to their countries is that they tend to like men over 40 years of age for marriage.  For a couple of reasons but mainly because you are less likely to cheat on them and you have a stable income.  You are serious about marriage and family and based on your age they believe you have money.

I am sure no on on this board uses Delphania.  Most of these girls are really serious at Delphania but very high expectations.  But if you want a great woman but you better be a great catch of a guy this is the place to go.  Major leagues.  If not got to Elena Models and the bush leagues.

Alantodd, your post leads me to ask this question. What is YOUR expectation if you are ever in the situation you lose you financial freedom due causes outside your control. Do you expect your partner to leave you? If not, why not, based on the criteria you've written?

[Photo Guy]

Where do you, and where does she, draw the line between needs and  luxuries?

A Porsche will not necessarily make a person happier than a VW.

a 3,000 square foot house will not necessarily make a person happier than a 1,500.

Personally, I would like to have a bigger music studio. I'm currently using a small bedroom.
Would the bigger studio make me happier.  ...No -just a bit more 'comfortable'.
When I look back at my life and think of the good times, the happy moments, I rarely think
of things that were 'expensive'. I think about certain people that were fun to be around.
I think we should focus on that human interplay, rather than the monetary/materialism.
It's best to avoid people who dwell on the size of their house, the car model, their investments. In that context, you must discover what makes your fiancee, wife, or girlfriend happy.

Are her values the same as yours?

If she expects you to be 'generous' without any bounds, you could easily fall into debt.

[gabrielo]

and so I  also still see a lot of justifications,
 for why a  normal *average life*  RW should  expect better than her AW sisters have on *average* , or she will be unhappy in her choice.
   
Intentionally looking or expecting a minimum standard is certainly realistic,
this point keeps being brought up,
and i think everyone agrees with it!!
having some *rational minimum* standard  isnt the question at hand. ?

but when we are looking into the topic of RW establishing a "minimum" income requirment for a partner,
the very natural question is:
  at what level does this become true gold digging..??
or at the least , materialism?

when RW put money first, sentiments second, likes him, maybe she thinks love him, maybe will love him with time, but knows which will be financially secure now.

but let's face it's not RW fault totally, it's the lack of face time in building (not having, if is  a VM) the relationship, (yeah some will do find their true love or perfect partner in a few weeks, but they are the exception not the norm) if they don't invest in face time before how will know each other??.

yeah the trips cost money, and more if are a few trips and not only one, more the cost of relocation, but if one can manage the costs without severing his current lifestyle why not?

maybe some posts will be read as a RW will choose a man earning 200,000 over one  making 100,000  but thats posts leave without answer what happens when RW loves the second man.

also each WM and each RW are different trying to find a set of rules to apply to all of them is impossible, because sentiments which form the base of a relationship cannot be expressed logically or mathematically, also if one not strike gold today ( and not mean a gold digger  ) maybe tomorrow will be.


also be one prepared to change the mindset from single to married.

Now if that man decides to use his limited purchasing power to buy a new fishing boat rather than new appliances or new furniture, she will protest, and justifiably so if she did not participate in decision making.

so buy that new fishing boat before getting in the airplaine

well the man with the mindset in getting married will be buy that boat while not drain his (their) money.

because is not more HIS is OURS, OURS, OURS, HER, HER, his money.

Gabrielo
 

[Photo Guy]

Turbo wrote:
I can agree that not having money usually makes life worse but once you have enough for a normal life how does money make life better?

That's an excellent question. I would define 'having enough' as not having to worry about the basic expenses- food and shelter. When a couple has enough money, they are free to enjoy each other without worrying. I think in the West, we are brainwashed to a degree, by TV commercials that promote products. They allege: We will all be so much happier once we obtain a Blackberrry or iPod, or BMW, etc. The reality is, these things do little for happiness and only add a bit of comfort. Remember, once it was enjoyable enough, just to go on a picnic, or play cards, or read a novel.
Let's face it, there's very little connection between material acquisitions and happiness.
Think of all the people you know.

I think couples start to fall into the 'unhappy' category, when they can't afford THE BASICS.
ie cannot afford to get their car repaired, or pay the rent/mortgage, etc.
Yes, unhappiness can be the result of financial insecurity and debt.
So, if you have basic financial security, I think you can build a relationship on that,
 along with values of good character- honesty, loyalty, trust, love, and empathy.

I think a couple's ability to be happy can be greatly affected by their attitude toward money, rather than the actual dollar amounts. For example, two couples might have $100,000 in the bank. One couple is constantly worried about how far that money will go- What if disaster A happens and the money is wiped out by medical bills? etc. The other couple faces the same dangers, but doesn't constantly worry about it. I am sure the couple that worries and/or fights over the money, will be more stressed-out and less happy.

As far as financial guidelines.... maybe RW should find out what her fiance's credit rating is and look at his credit report, just to determine if there's a problem with debt.

 

[Bluebell]

  Once they fall and love and meet her parents they buy them an apartment.  Very big population of men doing this. Women in Kiev know this and the very good ones expect this. Not because there gold diggers.  But because they are worth it. 

Very good ones at what exactly?   Do they have kinder hearts than other women, do something important to the humankind, do charitable work, help orphalines, help homeless people, or what exactly are they so good at?    I would be very interested to know what makes this 'very big population of men'  buy apartments for Kiev women, because you see, I too know hundreds of very good women but sadly enough, nobody buys them any apartment. Now I find it outrageous   Maybe the problem is that they don't expect it ??   Now that you explained, I too see that it is not an act of gold digging to expect an apartment from a suitor, it is just natural to get what one worth. It's great also that some women know exactly what they worth (an apartment), and the men too know the exact worth of these women.

 

[deccie]

What a great reply...