Money changes everything

[MaxxumUSA]

Quite interesting bit of info, Maxx. Was she offered to act as a "recruiter", too, after joining, as a way of recovering her initial expenditure ? Does she know how her  "recruiter" became such ? In addition to "word-of-mouth" as in her case, does your wife know of other "recruitment" methods used by Elena's ? Newspaper/magasine ads, maybe ?

I am unsure of other methods of advertising.  This one was word of mouth.  There is no official Elena's Models office in Samara, but if a single woman in samara wants to be on the website she will find the woman in Samara that can make it happen.

She did not get a "kick back" or commission if she sent a friend her way.  It is not MLM type thinking at all.  Quite legitimate actually.

It is interesting to me also for a couple reasons.  First reason being that a RW that pays 5,000 ruble to be on the site would almost certainly be very serious about wanting to marry a foreign man.  It is also interesting that people in Russia come up with creative ways to earn cash.  (Like posting a woman's profile with photos and writing an introduction for her.)

This information was spawned from me telling my wife (jokingly) maybe we should start a matchmaking service for AM seeking RW.  She asked how much will we charge the woman.  WOW.  I had not thought about that.  No - I am NOT seriously considering starting an agency at this time.  Just was thinking out loud more than anything.

[SANDRO43]

I am unsure of other methods of advertising.  This one was word of mouth. There is no official Elena's Models office in Samara, but if a single woman in samara wants to be on the website she will find the woman in Samara that can make it happen.

One wonders how that info spreads around in a city of 1 million+ people.

She did not get a "kick back" or commission if she sent a friend her way.  It is not MLM type thinking at all.

As in Multi-Level Marketing (I had to look that one up )?

It is interesting to me also for a couple reasons. First reason being that a RW that pays 5,000 rubles to be on the site would almost certainly be very serious about wanting to marry a foreign man.

IIRC, it's also Rvrwnd (damn these unhelpful monikers: River Wind ?) Tver Angels' approach. But possibly at Elena's it only applies to those who cannot do on their own the

posting a woman's profile with photos and writing an introduction

[MaxxumUSA]

One wonders how that info spreads around in a city of 1 million+ people.

That is a tiny mystery to me also.  Like any town I would guess there are certain "circles" or "Clicks" of people that everybody knows everybody.

As in Multi-Level Marketing (I had to look that one up )

Exactly.  - "Pyramid schemes" is another related thing to look up.

[Lily]

  There is no official Elena's Models office in Samara, but if a single woman in samara wants to be on the website she will find the woman in Samara that can make it happen.
 

If a single woman in Samara wants to get on Elena's Models, she could go to the Public Library that provides a public internet access, and make a fine profile with photos for herself. Btw, the Library is within a walking distance from your wife's home (please tell her my best regards Maxxum!), located at the crossing of prospekt Lenina and Osipenko street. I am teling the situation that used to be there a few years ago, when I was living there.

Additionally, the Americans Council in Samara made an agreement with that Library that it will provide FREE internet access for public on Thursdays and Fridays, one hour pro day for a person. This is more than enough to create a profile on EM for any woman in Samara. What agent are we talking about?  Just go and get on it!

When I experienced a financial shortage, I used this Library free facility to a maximum. How did I know about that possibility? Just walked in the Library and looked around the information boards!   

[Jazzyclassy]

Forgive me KenC

but I think this topic is really doublefaced one, cos  many of you claim that you never gave money or would not rely on money in order to pick up  very young hot russian wives , it is not true in  many ways

obviously you spent half of your fortune in order to persue and finally marry russian woman and you just can not deny this

the other question is if she asks presents and money from you when you are only dating and things,  yeah that should be a red flag of course, but I am sure you gave presents yourself and they have been waiting for your initiative (some married women do not dare ask for presents btw)

To tell that your women are the least materialistic in the whole wide World I just laughed it is ridiculous, it is unbelievable, if they were that non materialistic as how you say here, they would be living in a tent with you , cooking , cleaning and  being natural women without asking any presents in returm , can anyone of you boast to have such a woman ?

[Serebro]

Maxxum, what are you talking about?!
Any woman can do it herself in any internet cafe or a library or in a post-office if neither she nor her friends have a PC with the Internet at home/work.
I have to agree with Lily.

If a single woman in Samara wants to get on Elena's Models, she could go to the Public Library that provides a public internet access, and make a fine profile with photos for herself.

and also with Jazzy on the statement

To tell that your women are the least materialistic in the whole wide World I just laughed it is ridiculous, it is unbelievable, if they were that non materialistic as how you say here, they would be living in a tent with you , cooking , cleaning and  being natural women without asking any presents in returm , can anyone of you boast to have such a woman ?

[MaxxumUSA]

Serebro and Lily,

I am telling you it is true that not all women know how to get on the Internet and post a profile.  While it is basic knowledge for the two of you it is not common knowledge for all people.  (Lily I will give my wife your greetings - thank you.    )

My wife is computer literate and had a laptop when in Russia.  But her sister - almost same age - grew up in and living in same city - Would not know how to turn the power on.  Her sister would have not a clue as to even search for such things, other than to ask her sister.

Jazzy -
You are right.  We want hot women for our wives.  The women want financial stability.  True True.  But...  I think that for many of us - if we're married to the right woman - that if/when financial trouble comes she will not walk out on us.  And the second she gets her green card she will not want a divorce and try to take 1/2 our money.  I think these are (extremes) possibilities the spirit of this thread is trying to avoid.

[Jazzyclassy]

     -
 But...  I think that for many of us - if we're married to the right woman - that if/when financial trouble comes she will not walk out on us.  And the second she gets her green card she will not want a divorce and try to take 1/2 our money.  I think these are (extremes) possibilities the spirit of this thread is trying to avoid.

                       

yeah I understand these things, but you can not really discourage the fact that your women married you when you were more or less in your great nice financial position and financial stability  did matter to them , what if you were not that rich and you met those women , here you need to ask yourself a question would they be so willing to marry you , you can not answer this question cos you never were poor at that period of time when you met them, you were rather fortunate. So the point that money changes everything can be actually a rhetoric question , as you know the answer and at the same time you do not really know how things might have occur.They simply might have never married you at all and search for more financially stable people.

So to say that in particularly women who married you are the least materialistic it is kind of strange cos you actually never knew them in a situation when you were poor for example, of course they will tell you do not buy me this cos they know you will and you can do it.  Just think how these statements will seem to other people who see the situation from the side . When those rather fortunate stable men are telling  that they got hot wives and they are completely not interested in money would be just such a lie.

It is like a poor person will brag how rich he is come on  ...enough of self showing off

[Gator]

Jazzy wrote,

what if you were not that rich and you met those women , here you need to ask yourself a question would they be so willing to marry you

Maxxum, Jazzy is correct.  There are plenty of financially unstable men in Russia to choose from. 

The mere fact that you showed up in Russia says that you have some money.  Plus I can read in the personality of your posts that you are confident and have enjoyed success and will achieve even more in life.  Women can sense that with their intuition. 

Nevertheless, if you were a dork I doubt that your woman would have spent more than a day or two with you, regardless of your money and the gifts you bought.  There are plenty of Western men for a beautiful, young woman such as your wife to choose from.

[Gator]

Maxxum wrote,

I think that for many of us - if we're married to the right woman - that if/when financial trouble comes she will not walk out on us. 

Exactly.   From what I have learned of Russian mentality, when times are good, they enjoy the fruits of their labor.  Little is saved.  When times are bad, the man looks for more fruit and his woman supports him emotionally (although I imagine she is on his back every day and pushes him out the door each morning). 

Just because a woman enjoys the good times does not mean she will walk out when times go bad.   The Decembrist spirit lives in good RW.  Except for young RW, all RW have experience with bad financial times.  As a man is getting to know his woman, ask her what it was like then, what did she feel, what did she do, etc.

And the second she gets her green card she will not want a divorce and try to take 1/2 our money.

This boils down to - know your woman before you marry.
 

[KenC]

Forgive me KenC

but I think this topic is really doublefaced one, cos  many of you claim that you never gave money or would not rely on money in order to pick up  very young hot russian wives , it is not true in  many ways

obviously you spent half of your fortune in order to persue and finally marry russian woman and you just can not deny this

This is simply not true, Jazzy,  First I am assuming you are exaggerating when you say "half your fortune".  If you consider the fact that I always wanted to visit Russia any way, I would say the time I spent with Lena was realtively inexpensive or at least no more expensive than being with an AW for the same period of time.  Over all, this was not an expensive venture for me.

the other question is if she asks presents and money from you when you are only dating and things,  yeah that should be a red flag of course, but I am sure you gave presents yourself and they have been waiting for your initiative (some married women do not dare ask for presents btw)

  I treated Lena well, but I was not overly lavish with my gifts either.

To tell that your women are the least materialistic in the whole wide World I just laughed it is ridiculous, it is unbelievable, if they were that non materialistic as how you say here, they would be living in a tent with you , cooking , cleaning and  being natural women without asking any presents in returm , can anyone of you boast to have such a woman ?

Jazzy, I don't think you understand.  Least materialistic woman I have ever met is a relative term.  Meaning that in this case, Lena is the least materialistic woman I know in relation to all the other women I have known.  That doesn't mean she is completely devoid of any materialsticness entirely.  The term "materialistic woman" is usually meant for a woman motivated primarily by money.  Lena is not.  I stand by my statement.
KenC

[AnastassiaAsh]

Well, and who said that it is good and 'gracious' to marry a poor man?! 

My husband asked me, and not once, would you have married me if i was poor? And I said - Of course not, my dear! I wouldn't even looked at your profile simply because it wouldn't have popped up on my search list.... Would you have married me if i was short and fat and illiterate? 
But the one thing I can promise you - if i am married to you, then i am committed to the end, if you start struggling with money, i will still be there, no matter what....

Of course, women want stability. Those women who hate poverty and lack of good marriage material married foreigners. It is not a bad thing. It is great. They feel responsibility and don't want to waste their lives any more. It's not bad to take gifts and even expect them.

i will tell you what materialistic is in my mind -

when a pastor says - come and tithe in my church

when a beautiful young woman marries an ugly fat guy who signs her name on all of his twenty properties

yes, when a woman asks on first/second day to buy her these beautiful boots...

[groovlstk]

I think the word "materialistic" is too broad and has negative connotations in the way it's being discussed here.

For example, I met a good number of FSU women who were very materialistic for their own benefit. Some of their behavior can be rationalized because they were completely clueless about finances and assumed all Western men were rich, but that's a topic for another thread. That said, they expected their man to spend every spare dollar he had on making her happy. To such women, this is how a man shows his love. Any man who has spent enough time in Russia or Ukraine has encountered such women, and God help the poor SOB who falls for one.

Now, my wife may be just as "materialistic" as any of these girls. She certainly likes the finer things in life, but she understands our finances and every penny she spends is done with an eye to our future. We are looking to buy our first home soon, and since explaining the process to her I have to literally drag her out of the house to dine at a restaurant as she prefers we save a few $$ by eating at home. Every penny we spend comes under scrutiny, yet even before we decided to buy a home she preferred to do something together like attend a Broadway play (God help me, I know I should be grateful but I'm not a theater fan) rather than buy a pair of jeans for herself.

It's not bad to be materialistic, the important distinction is whether she's in it for herself or is she part of your team?

[BillyB]

In defense of maxxum's situation, he did come here once implying he was a time of his life where he is financially struggling and may lose everything. His wife, then fiancee, remained by his side throughout his struggles. Got to respect that.

I'm sure it's on most men's minds that if they ever get in the position of financial struggle or even finacial disaster, will his wife stay and support or leave? Hard to know the true answer to that question until it actually happens.

Many would say never to be stingy with your money when it comes to your woman but the greater problem is that men spend money too loosely and never get a good read on their woman pertaining to money issues. How well can she handle the occasional "NO, we can't afford that", or "Those $400 pair of shoes is living beyond our means"?

A good woman will handle family finances responsibly, she will support her husband through tough times(as long as he's not a willing deadbeat), and she will even get a job to help chip in for her family's benefit when necessary.

One thing guys can do to weed out some gold diggers if give the impression that he lives a normal life. He will get less responses/interest from certain ladies but it will be a good test of his charisma if he can keep the remaining ladies interested in him as a person when richer men are knocking at her door.

[Misha]

Many would say never to be stingy with your money when it comes to your woman but the greater problem is that men spend money too loosely and never get a good read on their woman pertaining to money issues. How well can she handle the occasional "NO, we can't afford that", or "Those $400 pair of shoes is living beyond our means"?

In my case, it is my wife who will tell me "no, we can't afford that" and she is the one who keeps a tight grip on our spending. My wife yesterday went with a Russian friend to a used clothing store that sells almost brand new clothing (often with the old price tag on it) for a few dollars. Given the option of buying a blouse for $50 in a boutique or buying the same blouse in near-perfect condition in a used clothing store for $5, she will chose the latter. And, my wife isn't that different from the other Russian women that we know.

[groovlstk]

A good woman will handle family finances responsibly, she will support her husband through tough times(as long as he's not a willing deadbeat), and she will even get a job to help chip in for her family's benefit when necessary.

Not all married FSU women are stay-at-home wives, in fact I'd say this is probably the exception rather than the rule, based on couples we know. My wife started working in Nov. and she's already established herself as one of the top designers in her Manhattan firm and earns an excellent salary.

[KenC]

In defense of maxxum's situation, he did come here once implying he was a time of his life where he is financially struggling and may lose everything. His wife, then fiancee, remained by his side throughout his struggles. Got to respect that.

I'm sure it's on most men's minds that if they ever get in the position of financial struggle or even finacial disaster, will his wife stay and support or leave? Hard to know the true answer to that question until it actually happens.

Many would say never to be stingy with your money when it comes to your woman but the greater problem is that men spend money too loosely and never get a good read on their woman pertaining to money issues. How well can she handle the occasional "NO, we can't afford that", or "Those $400 pair of shoes is living beyond our means"?

A good woman will handle family finances responsibly, she will support her husband through tough times(as long as he's not a willing deadbeat), and she will even get a job to help chip in for her family's benefit when necessary.

One thing guys can do to weed out some gold diggers if give the impression that he lives a normal life. He will get less responses/interest from certain ladies but it will be a good test of his charisma if he can keep the remaining ladies interested in him as a person when richer men are knocking at her door.

If this is a deception, I strongly disagree.  But it has been my experience that "men with money" have an inbuilt "gold digger alarm" and can sort out the rift raft rather quickly.  I don't think men should hide their wealth, maybe they should not flaunt it, but be who you are and if that is rich, then so be it.
KenC

[KenC]

In my case, it is my wife who will tell me "no, we can't afford that" and she is the one who keeps a tight grip on our spending. My wife yesterday went with a Russian friend to a used clothing store that sells almost brand new clothing (often with the old price tag on it) for a few dollars. Given the option of buying a blouse for $50 in a boutique or buying the same blouse in near-perfect condition in a used clothing store for $5, she will chose the latter. And, my wife isn't that different from the other Russian women that we know.

These Russian gals certainly love their "deals" don't they?  My wife regularly scowers the new deliveries at Marshalls for designer clothes at a discount.  She even knows when the new stock is coming into the store.
Ken

[BillyB]

I don't think men should hide their wealth, maybe they should not flaunt it, but be who you are and if that is rich, then so be it.

Ken, I have a feeling everything I post will be inspected under a microscope and scrutinized by certain posters but don't contradict yourself just to disagree with me. Did you or did you not expose your wealth and be who you are, rich, when in the FSU? I think any "good" woman would respect a man who does not flaunt his money in a attempt to win a woman's heart and look down at men who does attempt to expose his financial superiority to get the edge in the dating game.

Money Changes Everything-

You freshmen need to think long and hard about how you will handle your money in this pursuit of a RW.  As it may be true (not always though) that you can offer your potential RW a better life in your home country, do you really want to use your financial superiority as the bait to land your future wife?  Do you want your relationship to be clouded with the concept that she is yours because of your wallet?  Or do you want a woman that loves you for your qualities as a man and a human being?  The choice is yours.  But it is a difficult choice too.

It is a much harder road to win the heart of a woman half way around the world, with your charm, romantic ways and character than it is to just overwhelm her with gifts and money.  Most men in this venture IMO take the easy way out and just dole out the cash to win the prize.  And some prize that might be if she is into your wallet more than she is into you.  Is that what you really want?

   My best advice is not to open those financial floodgates until after you two walk down the aisle.

[Daveman]

I would agree that "materialistic" is just too broad of a term.  I know what I don't like in a woman when I see it, but that isn't necessarily her desire for *some* nice things in life.

It's an attitude that flashes like a neon sign "I'm a high maintenance woman"... I like simple girls with brains.

Just be yourself, whomever/whatever that is.. I love to give gifts.  If I felt the urge to buy a lady something nice, I'd do it without hesitation whether in the FSU or at home.  It's just the way I live my life.  But if she *needs* expensive gifts for me to prove my love, then she's outta there.

Dave

[groovlstk]

Billy,

If I remember correctly, Tiger Paws hid his wealth during his search.

Since I don't have his money problems and never will I'll keep my trap shut on whether or not it's a good thing to do.

Based on many of his posts, however, it seemed to me that his wealth closed a lot more doors than it opened.

[Shadow]

Ken, I have a feeling everything I post will be inspected under a microscope and scrutinized by certain posters but don't contradict yourself just to disagree with me. Did you or did you not expose your wealth and be who you are, rich, when in the FSU? I think any "good" woman would respect a man who does not flaunt his money in a attempt to win a woman's heart and look down at men who does attempt to expose his financial superiority to get the edge in the dating game.

Billy there is a difference between hiding your wealth and flaunting your money.
There are many guys who flaunt their money and make gold diggers believe they have caught what they were after, only to find a train wreck later as they can not keep up with their holiday habits. On the other hand guys may get too stingy and lose a woman that has seen the picture of the new SUV and is denied a pair of boots while the K-a is applied for.
The thing to do is be yourself. Dating in the FSU is not a holiday where you get to throw out buckets of cash. It is not a local date where you split the bill if there is no chemistry. It is an attempt to fins a partner that you will live your life with. This means that you should behave just as you will the rest of your life, and hope she does the same.

[Christian]

I would agree that "materialistic" is just too broad of a term.  I know what I don't like in a woman when I see it, but that isn't necessarily her desire for *some* nice things in life.

It's an attitude that flashes like a neon sign "I'm a high maintenance woman"... I like simple girls with brains.

Just be yourself, whomever/whatever that is.. I love to give gifts.  If I felt the urge to buy a lady something nice, I'd do it without hesitation whether in the FSU or at home.  It's just the way I live my life.  But if she *needs* expensive gifts for me to prove my love, then she's outta there.

Dave

Daveman,

Your ideas here expressed are a good demarcation as well as a beginning point in defining materialistic if it is broadly concieved as a spectrum.  Just like the wonderfully colorful and ornate trappings that ofttimes typify the Russian artisic expression, whether with red lipstick, illuminated manuscripts, bright and cheering Church cupolas or the heavy yet lively Russian eye for ornate written verbal expression, the enriching of a RW's life can be as simple as a good book given or a trip to the arts.

The western mentality is skewed with western images of what is enriching, while all the while leaving the individual untouched.  This is far from what a traditional Russian would consider as such.  In fact the simple and sincere conversations which two people share is key to unlocking the full beauty of her as well as yourself.

Christian   

[timothe]

I think Anastassia brought some common sense to this thread with her latest comments.  Money is a consideration...at least at the level where the woman needs to feel secure in the relationship.  My fiancee asked a lot of financially relevent questions before our first Visa application.  I hid nothing because I knew her well enough to know that she wasn't angling for the money.

I've been on the other side of the fence, too.  The Muscovite I met was not a pro-dater, but she was quite materialistic.  I spoiled her.  It didn't turn out well.  I learned not to do it again.  

Somebody on the old RWG boards...it may have been MarkinTX...said that it is best to bring many small gifts and to give them throughout the visit.  Good advice.

Now, I tell my fiancee my financial present and future in full detail.  I do it for two reasons...to show her that it's necessary to make financial choices in the USA just like it is in Russia and to train her to take care of the finances when she arrives.  Since we don't know when she will be able to work because of her disease, I want to make sure she stays both busy and involved.  When we were in Kiev, I discovered a sense of heroism in her when things were difficult.  She seemed to thrive when she was needed so I want her to feel needed often.      

[Lily]

If this is a deception, I strongly disagree.  But it has been my experience that "men with money" have an inbuilt "gold digger alarm" and can sort out the rift raft rather quickly.  I don't think men should hide their wealth, maybe they should not flaunt it, but be who you are and if that is rich, then so be it.
KenC

I think KenC just touched on an interesting subject that would probably be worth a separate thread. How a man should behave if he is wealthy but wants to avoid golddiggers.