Money changes everything

[myrddin]

Likewise for the men. If they expected the "10" who will also be the traditional wife and will bring them a beer during the commercials, they may be in for a rude shock.

You mean I have to wait for a commercial?!!   

[Faux Pas]

Also, some of the posters here sound pretty hypocritical. It is an obvious recurring theme on this forum that most AM go to FSU to find a bride for one major reason: you want and can find a much younger and beautiful woman there and that's what you want.
However, it sounds like those young hotties should only want you for who you are, just because you're a nice guy (no matter how old you are, how you look, and heaven forbid them to be interested in your income).

Well, to be fare and follow your logic about love first, and outer attributes (like income) being secondary.....you should stay in the US and be happy with what is available to you...there are a lot of nice women close to your age in the US. They of course may be not so young and pretty, some of them even overweight - but why should this matter? You should love them not for the outer attribute (appearance), but because they have nice personalities 

Pitbull

What you state here would seemingly apply to a percentage in this quest. How big or small of a percentage I have no idea. Perhaps I read it wrong but it appears to me you are painting all WM's with the same brush and thats not only not fair it's very misleading. I love AW and have my entire life. My mother is one, my daughter is one, I married and divorced one, dated them exclusively all my life. There is nothing wrong with AW. However, I do see concern for income, status attributed so often to AW in the women I've dated and even in my own daughter. I've never considered it "a bad thing" but silently wondered how they expect to find real love when love is at the bottom of their checklist. Ironically, my last long term was with an beautiful AW who earns significantly more money than I do and, I do quite well compared to these figures floating around this thread.

I started like many before me searching for my companion on the usual american date sites and wandered off by way of a scammer and my interest became peaked at broadening my search to other countries. I am looking for the woman that I can love unconditionally who will give me that love in return. I only say that to say this: I am not now nor ever have I set out to find a young Russian hottie, Not young, not Russian or a hottie. I've had the American versions of those. I've also had them closer to, around to and even older than my age. God forbid but YES I do expect a women to love me for me. For the life of me I can't really understand why so many on this thread seem to be thinking in the opposite direction. It nauseates me. I suppose if I don't find the love I seek I will continue to do as I have in the past and keep on, keeping on.

[pitbull]

Pitbull

 Perhaps I read it wrong but it appears to me you are painting all WM's with the same brush and thats not only not fair it's very misleading.

Faux Pas,

I'm sorry you read my post this way. Painting all (insert any class here: WM, AW, RW, etc) with the same brush is exactly what I'm opposed to. In my post I was critisizing the percentage of RW-seekers who justify their quest for RW by saying that ALL AW are fat, materialistic, feminist etc...

Luckily, there are men in this endeavor who think just like you do. I totally support your opinion:

I love AW and have my entire life. My mother is one, my daughter is one, I married and divorced one, dated them exclusively all my life. There is nothing wrong with AW.

As to concern for income and status (as financial standing of her family), I have to yet see a woman who doesn't give a damn. Every sentient person (a woman or a man) does. What makes a difference is whether income is THE only thing she cares for? Is it #1 reason to choose a mate? Does this woman love YOU as a successful man, or just loves your money?

And here there are lots of variations both among RW and AW. Materialism cannot be exclusively attributed to either group.

I have only one piece of advice: know your woman before you marry (be her an AW or RW)

[Faux Pas]

Pitbull

Thank you for that clarification. I did misread your meaning. I agree with you completely on knowing the woman no matter her country or culture. Of course it matters to everyone male and female, western and eastern. It is a factor to be considered no doubt. Personally, I'm not looking to raise or lower a lifestyle of any woman but rather have one join me in mine. Where hers happens to be at the time isn't a factor. Mine is what it is and the lifestyle is just a small part of the package deal.

[Gator]

No one is answering AJ's question.

when two people of the two cultures meet, lets assume
they are in the average incomes for thier respective locations …… Arnt we talking about marriage? two people that really connect?  she is hopefully marrying a man she loves, and her lifestyle and oppurtunity will be above the average she had in her home country.

This thread continues to strongly imply that just isn't good enough.

so please lets answer the "why" is that??

AJ, I can not answer the “why” because I do not believe it is true. 

Average income should be good enough for a man and woman to build a stable life together.  Over time, a man and woman may change in different directions.  Happens all the time.  Yet, if they are committed to each other, they will mutually decide how to reconcile their differences.  If not committed, they will part because they will become sick of each other for many reasons, not just money.

[Christian]

Am I the only one that wants to take a shower after reading Christian's post? :noidea:
KenC

KenC,

No, for you see there have I viler than she washed all my sins away.  I have already cracked open the red Easter egg and seen the white of my hope and redemption displayed.

Isaiah 1:16-20

16 wash and make yourselves clean.
       Take your evil deeds
       out of my sight!
       Stop doing wrong,

 17 learn to do right!
       Seek justice,
       encourage the oppressed. [a]
       Defend the cause of the fatherless,
       plead the case of the widow.

 18 "Come now, let us reason together,"
       says the LORD.
       "Though your sins are like scarlet,
       they shall be as white as snow;
       though they are red as crimson,
       they shall be like wool.

 19 If you are willing and obedient,
       you will eat the best from the land;

 20 but if you resist and rebel,
       you will be devoured by the sword."
       For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.

16 Омойтесь, очиститесь; удалите злые деяния ваши от очей Моих; перестаньте делать зло; 
17 научитесь делать добро, ищите правды, спасайте угнетенного, защищайте сироту, вступайтесь за вдову. 
18 Тогда придите--и рассудим, говорит Господь. Если будут грехи ваши, как багряное, --как снег убелю; если будут красны, как пурпур, --как волну убелю. 
19 Если захотите и послушаетесь, то будете вкушать блага земли; 
20 если же отречетесь и будете упорствовать, то меч пожрет вас: ибо уста Господни говорят.

Исаия 1,16-20

У меня надежда. А вы тоже?

Christian
 

 Violated ToS. Use English. No Prosyletizing.

[beachcomber556]

I'm with KenC.  Time to hit the shower.  YEEESH!!!!

[Gator]

Best to ignore him when he gets this way.  Back to the topic.

The concept that many RW may value a man’s income above all else seems preposterous to me.  A few may but most do not.  

The following is my experience.  Your mileage may vary.  And I would appreciate knowing if the RW here would agree or disagree.  

Romancing a RW advances through phases, starting with correspondence, culminating in marriage when a married life together begins.  In the beginning, before a meeting, a RW will only have information about a man’s job.  Yet, that will not mean very much to her because she is not familiar with American jobs and pay scales.  Many RW will have a minimum standard for a man’s education and profession, and the more educated they are, the more rigid the standard.  Thus, some may not even begin correspondence if a man does not have a notable profession.  This is more about esteem than perceived income.

A few men wrote my future wife, bragging about their fancy lifestyle and millions in the bank.  She deleted all of them, believing it devious bullsheeeeeet and considering it improper even if true.  

After meeting a man and continuing the courtship, a RW will at first judge a man on how her heart feels and whether he is interesting and fun.    Even if a man discloses his income and assets, she will not understand the value in the sense of what lifestyle it can provide in America.  There are too many variables to factor.  

Does that mean she is taking a man's word that everything is perfect and that he is highly successful.  She may listen; however, I think a RW will make several qualitative judgments just by observing his actions, judgments related to whether he will take care of her:

-  Is he a strong man?

-  Is he stable?

-  Is he generous?

-  What is his current lifestyle?

My personal experience is that if an AM passes those tests, plus her other tests such as her heart, he will be considered eligible for a serious relationship, possibly marriage.  I believe at this stage that she is judging far more about the man than the man is about her.  Why?  She has much more to lose!

The rest of time before marriage is spent enjoying each other and learning everything that is possible in the typically short meetings together.

Now what happens when a RW moves here and her eyes get big?  I have no idea.  I would think some RW would be happy and contented with what they have and where their life was heading.  Others would be perfectionists and would want more and more, never completely contented even if the man did fairly well.  This latter behavior can be identified in the courtship phase if a man spends enough time with his RW.

[Photo Guy]

gabaub wrote:
'....Another woman, may have expected a double-wide and will be absolutely overjoyed with the middle-class home in the suburbs...'

For some reason I can't picture a RW picturing THAT scene. I understand your point. It's logical,
BUT I think a lot of you guys are overlooking the prevalent stereotype in the FSU that
WM are 'rich'.  (No thanks to the guys who throw their money around in the FSU)

I think Christian is saying 'choose spirituality and good values over materialism, when searching
for a wife'.  And I'm glad he found redemption.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Well, guys, you might be shocked, but Christian's posts in this thread so far have been ok and true with me. In one he provided a very picturesque and vivid example, it was supposed to make you 'throw up'...
And this post is just a breath of fresh air for me.  He is trying in his own way to do what i would never be able to do on this forum.

Give him a brake, ignore or don't spit fire...

Yes, maybe some of you need to go to the shower, go there from time to time or stay there constantly depending on the amount of...

I am leaving this thread...I have said enough.

[Jumper]

Darth Gator said :

AJ,  i am your father

ohh wait wrong movie plot...

AJ, I can not answer the “why” because I do not believe it is true.  

Average income should be good enough for a man and woman to build a stable life together.  Over time, a man and woman may change in different directions.  Happens all the time.  Yet, if they are committed to each other, they will mutually decide how to reconcile their differences.  If not committed, they will part because they will become sick of each other for many reasons, not just money.

Gator -
 I agree with you, i was posing that  question ,exactly for that reason, because i did not believe the inferences ,and direction the thread was going  to be the  common  reality. heck i certainly live an alternate experience , if where the thread was headed was  the reality of the situation.

i would hope to know as well as anyone , that it takes a certain finacial security to be comfortable and "fair" in this endeavor,and as stated before, I  completely agree with the point of a WM being responcible and sure he is able to afford it.
 but that covers  a much broader range than was being thrown about.
A newcomer  reading those posts ,that several  were questioning,
 would  think it was possible to find happiness in this venture on a decent western  salary,and yes i found it odd, in regards to whom the whole K1 was set up for in the first place.

I think my temporary boredom made me beat this dead horse too long though..lol

but there seemed to be some interesting things came out...
*shrugs*

[KenC]

Well, guys, you might be shocked, but Christian's posts in this thread so far have been ok and true with me. In one he provided a very picturesque and vivid example, it was supposed to make you 'throw up'...
And this post is just a breath of fresh air for me.  He is trying in his own way to do what i would never be able to do on this forum.

Give him a brake, ignore or don't spit fire...

Yes, maybe some of you need to go to the shower, go there from time to time or stay there constantly depending on the amount of...

I am leaving this thread...I have said enough.

There is a time and a place for religious sermons and this thread is neither.  I respect everyone's right to choose their religion. please respect mine and stop forcing your's on me (Christian)
KenC

[timothe]

How about calling it a problem of not being able to revise expectations to conform to reality. If a woman expects a mansion and gets an average middle-class home in the suburbs, she may be miserable. Another woman, may have expected a double-wide and will be absolutely overjoyed with the middle-class home in the suburbs. Likewise for the men. If they expected the "10" who will also be the traditional wife and will bring them a beer during the commercials, they may be in for a rude shock.

This reminds me of a wise statement I heard during therapy. 

"Your level of serenity is inversely proportionate to your level of expectation."

I think part of this adventure requires that the man be completely honest with the woman about his financial situation before bringing her over, especially if he is on the low end of the scale.  This may require that you explains things like mortgage, car payment, credit cards, health insurance, savings for the child's college, etc.

[Misha]

BUT I think a lot of you guys are overlooking the prevalent stereotype in the FSU that
WM are 'rich'.  (No thanks to the guys who throw their money around in the FSU)

Yeah, that stereotype is prevalent. Again, comes down to getting to know the woman (or the man) that you are going to marry. Why are they willing to leave their country? Some are doing it for money, but others are interested in more than money. My wife for example, likes the stability in Canada, she likes the clean environment, she likes the fact that when we go to a park that the toilets have toilet paper even in the middle of the woods.... She also believes it is a better place to raise a family.

[mspanky]

Well, guys, you might be shocked, but Christian's posts in this thread so far have been ok and true with me. In one he provided a very picturesque and vivid example, it was supposed to make you 'throw up'...
And this post is just a breath of fresh air for me.  He is trying in his own way to do what i would never be able to do on this forum.

Give him a brake, ignore or don't spit fire...

Yes, maybe some of you need to go to the shower, go there from time to time or stay there constantly depending on the amount of...

I am leaving this thread...I have said enough.

 Anna,

 I'm with you. I thought Christians post made a lot of sense and wonder why someone would feel dirty after reading it. ???

[Jazzyclassy]

Money changes everything for those who talk about money , for those who create such topics here , talking  only  about money and material fortune all the time, do not know how to brag else about their money

When you die you wont be able to take those money  with you into your coffin unless you ask about it in your will or something

It is really an empty talk

cos really you can not measure everything with money even a child knows this, the main thing money should be enough for living , if you want luxury go to the Hollywood and live there with those silly crazy materialistic people and boil there and talk only about  diamonds and your golden panties  and silver toilet papers,(why would you need a forum like this at all ???) it is shallow and does not deserve any deep thinking.

Just everybody knows Money it is a sort of a lesson which God gives to this or that person, and Poverty is also a lesson which God gives and he checks people how they will change, or stay the same . If they remain generous with bags full of money , or become somebody inhuman . If they remain generous and supportive and understanding with a happiness in their hearts  cos they are healthy and their families are, without a lot of money , or become evil and revengeful towards rich people

In marriage  money changes  situation, technically a wife can be bought , her body can be bought her presence can be bought but her love can not be bought and sooner or later if there is no love , she will fly away no matter how much diamonds or gifts or gold you give her. Then again do not think of women as a product  or accessories , there are shallow women the same as there are shallow men who can be bought so  it all depends on what a person with huge bags of money searches , if he searches for a young beautiful pic beside him, he can have it, if he wants a real wife a soulmate  no money will help him to buy her, unless she just loves him for real.

I am not telling anything extraordinary , you try to dig into this matter deeply than it actually should be done, money is not a subject of deep spiritual conversation, you will need money only here once again on earth ,when you die believe me no money will save you from hell and in heaven you wont need them anyway

[KenC]

Jazzy,
You know it is obvious that you have not read this thread from end to end or you would not run your sanctimonious mouth like you are here.  My original premise was to not allow money to influence your building a nonmaterial relationship where love and companionship are of utmost importance.  There has been 23 pages of intelligent conversation on the subject matter and it is an important matter.  Try reading it before you come here and make foolish statements, OK?
KenC

[Jazzyclassy]

         There has been 23 pages of intelligent conversation on the subject matter and it is an important matter.

                   

You think  this is serious and important and so smart?

      personally pay attention to how much a man earns because most often than not (again there are exceptions) such people have a bouquet of personal qualities I respect and adore: organized, good thinker, thoughtful, good planner, wise, respected, overacheaver, goal oriented....I would like to think I possess these qualities too and would want to be together only with an equal person or much better. If I have X amount of money earned and saved, my husband MUST have 5X amount of money or more. There is no way in the world I even correspond with men who earn 1/2X....this is called self-esteem, knowledge of self worth     

It is just a laughter how people think like that, well maybe cos she lived in the USA for probably a long time already and just this thinking kills me  it is just not a russian woman anymore

        Because I am better than average where ever I am in the US or Russia.         

it is amazing how ridiculous it can become, because I am better than everybody else, and how do you know that you are better? who evaluate this, who identify this? well yeah and cos you are better you deserve tons of money ))  it is just a crazy  understanding of the world , nothing to talk  with a person about this subject anymore when you see such reply!

[acrzybear]

  Sometimes it is good to be poor civil servant, at least I know who my friends are and that a woman is actually interested in me and not my money.

  I decided long ago that unless I hit the lottery I will never be rich.  I earn enough to travel and do most of the things I want, would that change with a lady in my life? Yes it would, I wouldn't eat out so often, I wouldn't waste so much money on things I don't really need.  But you know something, I enjoy what I do and at the same time the "lack" of money helps eliminate the women that only see the surface and not the person.

  If she sees what kind of person I am and how I live (My Top Ramen days are over) she will be able to decide if she wants to be with me because of who I am or she can decide to move on because my bank account doesn't meet her expectations.   

  As long as you have a decent place to live, food in the pantry and the means for her to go visit the homeland once or possibly twice a year-then you should do ok. 

 You can be an average working Joe and still take her on a picnic, to the park or the beach.  Americans get too wrapped up in making money and purchasing material things and not concerned enough with spending time with those you love - Time is the one commodity you can not buy back.

 Some of my fondest memories are of my girlfriend at the time and I scrounging through the cushions on the couch and the car ashtray to gather enough loose change to go buy two 99 cent Whoppers (yeah I'm dating myself).  If she cares for you, there is no need to buy diamond earrings and fur coats to make her happy.

  It's the simple things a lady appreciates the most, but hey I'm just a SUB what do I know.   :noidea:

[Jazzyclassy]

  Sometimes it is good to be poor civil servant, at least I know who my friends are and that a woman is actually interested in me and not my money.

  I decided long ago that unless I hit the lottery I will never be rich.  I earn enough to travel and do most of the things I want, would that change with a lady in my life? Yes it would, I wouldn't eat out so often, I wouldn't waste so much money on things I don't really need.  But you know something, I enjoy what I do and at the same time the "lack" of money helps eliminate the women that only see the surface and not the person.

  If she sees what kind of person I am and how I live (My Top Ramen days are over) she will be able to decide if she wants to be with me because of who I am or she can decide to move on because my bank account doesn't meet her expectations.   

  As long as you have a decent place to live, food in the pantry and the means for her to go visit the homeland once or possibly twice a year-then you should do ok. 

 You can be an average working Joe and still take her on a picnic, to the park or the beach.  Americans get too wrapped up in making money and purchasing material things and not concerned enough with spending time with those you love - Time is the one commodity you can not buy back.

 Some of my fondest memories are of my girlfriend at the time and I scrounging through the cushions on the couch and the car ashtray to gather enough loose change to go buy two 99 cent Whoppers (yeah I'm dating myself).  If she cares for you, there is no need to buy diamond earrings and fur coats to make her happy.

  It's the simple things a lady appreciates the most, but hey I'm just a SUB what do I know.   :noidea:

very good post Bear!

[KenC]

Jazzy,
There are many kinds of people.  You are the type that puts all emotional and spiritual feelings above all else.  My Lena is very much like that too.  Other people are more pragmatic and logical.  And then there is everyone in between.  You and I think we have found true love in our respective mates.  Not everyone will be that lucky.  In fact IMO, most will not in this venture.  Most are hoping to meet a partner that fits their criteria that they would hope their partner matches and then they hope that love will develop over time.

When people discuss their criteria for their mate, it runs contrary to your own beliefs and appears to be an unnatural form of mate "shopping."  I can understand this and to be honest with you, I don't know if I could ever do it "their way."  In a perfect world, everyone would be able to experience what I did with Lena and what you and your husband did.  Deep and lasting love almost from the start.  It was only after that love was established that we even considered the practicalities of our relationship.  But I am also open minded enough and experienced enough in my lifetime to realize that there are other ways to find happiness in a marriage.  Give these people a break, Jazzy, not everyone is lucky enough to live a fairy tale romance like you.  In the end, they are only looking for love too, but their path to find it is just different than yours.
KenC

[beachcomber556]

On the way in to work this morning I was thinking about this thread, and the whole money = happiness thing.  We know a couple -- RW / AM here in Houston.  He is doctor making skads of money.  He is rarely home and they are neither one happy in the marriage.  As soon as she can stand on her own, she will be off to hopefully happier pastures, but likely not any greener.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Jazzy, I think you are a little immature in this field and you don't know this. That's ok, because you still have enough of years ahead of you to understand me. When you move to England and have a baby it will be a little more clear for you what I meant.

The main difference in my search is that I am trying to find true love in my circle of society, not among '20 y.o. students' or men who earn 30K or live in 40 y.o houses that their parents bought for 2K, with pink bathrooms and red carpets...

And why is it automatically implied that there is no love there, romance and all that? I have it all more than anybod I know, because I am romantic, I am like that and I am searching and looking for that...

I thought this thread is devoted to money more than money vs. everything else. People asked some straight questions and I tried to give some straight answers just about that, not mixing anything else. But it doesn't mean that those things don't exist and don't mean so much more than money.

If I really was how you described me, I would be married to some CEO of some Oil company and wouldn't be doing what I am doing here and on my website for pennies. I wouldn't have married a 27 y.o guy who much later we found out had cancer stage IV, I wouldn't have become a professional nurse for him, I wouldn't have gone and stayed with him in hospitals for 50 times, I wouldn't have been happy with a $200 ring that he gave me, I wouldn't have taken care of him till his last days and surely wouldn't have had a baby from him...

Jazzy, if a person talks about money and expresses that she/he wants to succeed in this area, it doesn't mean that that person is not romantic. It is called maturity, responsibility, wisdom... Not everything is ok in the mind of those people who say they don't care about money and are happy living in those conditions that I described, who don't strive to succeed in everything and in finances, who want to find a woman who would close her eyes on this ugliness and would 'love him only for who he is'. Well, in my eyes, he is at least a looser and a lazy guy. Which is fine when he is alone. I personally would never ever keep the woman in the dark about his man if i see some questions and concerns. It is my job after all. I wouldn't want any woman to be on the seventh sky during courtship and then get into the *** later. After failure with only one K1 she has only a tiny chance of doing it again. At the same time it is also my job to warn a man if I see that a woman is interested in his money much more than she should be...

Anastassia

[Gator]

I wrote this before Anastassia responded to Jazzy.  Here it is unedited.

Jazzy,

I am not taking sides and I am not being critical of you.  So please be patient with me.  I wish to use your issue with Anastassia to focus some of the discussion here.

Anastassia has withdrawn from this thread so she can not defend herself.  What she said could be easily misinterpreted.

You say that she is not a “Russian woman anymore.”  For sure she has changed from her Soviet days.  Yet, I still see many similarities with RW still in Russia.   Believe me, there are many RW who would not reply to letters from men whose job was not that of an educated professional.  In part it is because they would question the ability to take care of them, but mostly because of esteem, RW pride.  RW are long on pride and short on cash.

I took Anastassia's statement of reaching for "5x income" as not so much wanting the money but wanting the personality of a man who is successful.  All of us are different.  Some RW may want an intellectual soul as a husband, another may want a trustworthy family man, and one or two may want a Latin dancer or weightlifter.    Anastassia described exactly what appeals to her.


Like many RW, Anastassia has a lot of pride.  Why not?  She has accomplished a lot in life, followed the path less traveled to find her first husband, without a family network for support she overcame a personal tragedy of a magnitude that is rare for people her age, earns a decent income, and she is pretty.   That can go to one’s head, and at times her posts do come across as conceited.  Yet, many of her posts exhibit wholesome values such as charity.  

So maybe we should give her the benefit of the doubt.  Otherwise when she writes  “Because I am better than average”, one may just jump to the wrong conclusion and write “it is amazing how ridiculous it can become, ‘because I am better than everybody else…’ ”  Huge difference between the two.

[mischief]

Jazzy,

... at least Anastassia is honest with herself and others about her values and expectations... it's better than rub your spirituality on everybody and then wonder how come I'm unhappy... there is no decency in poverty... since you mentioned God, in proverbs it said: "Give me neither poverty nor riches; Feed me with the food that is my portion" ...and this portion is different for everybody... You are talking about love... love doesn't come from the first sight... lust comes from the first sight... Love needs to be planted and cultivated by hard working hands and will need years to grow... and money as well as anything else is important part of this process... they way you handle your money can say much more about you than your words...

I would rather listen what people being married for more than a couple of years have to say than speculations of the ones with little or no experience...