I'm still not convinced! The official stats just don't make sense!

[Eduard]

Finally, you have just reply to one of my question from long time ago... 16 married client for a site started in 2007 is a good result...

What is so difficult to show your own numbers ?

This is a legit question that's why i will respond. I will not waste any more time trying to fight off the dingos. Let them chase their own tails all they want, I'm done with this thread.
While I was waiting for my wife to come here I already had 2 friends who asked me to "hook them up with RW" and I did. They are the ones that suggested I should try this as a business. The first 2 years I didn't have a site and got a few clients as referrals and a few from advertising. I only put a site up in 07 because i decided to continue doing this.

[Lit_1nce]

I think several of you need your heads examined ... and one of these should do the job ... http://www.hardnesstesters.com/  just don't break them.

[Lit_1nce]

Here's also something for free !.. just copy it for future use as many times as you want ...

 |<-an inch->|

Now when ever you want to, you can give one of these.

[Eduard]

A while back we had a heated argument on the ratio of available men to women in Russia/FSU. I stated that in accordance to my personal experience of growing up in Russia, finding my own wife there, finding wives for other people and visiting it on a regular basis I felt that there are many more single women than men. I was accused of everything from trying to manipulate the numbers for my own business benefit to being an outright liar (by williamthe3d). It's been a couple of months since that topic was locked. All this time I've been working with several clients and I still see quite the opposite of 1:1 stat that my opponents were presenting. Not only I talk to many Russians both women and men on a daily basis. But I also do translation for my clients who talk with many different women. The general concensus among people from the FSU is always the same - there are a lot more single women than men. I don't know weather they mean only men and women who are looking for a commited relationship, they usually don't specify. But this is what they say (see a letter from a RW woman to my client below). I haven't met one yet who woud say the opposite!
Seems like in the beginning of the correspondence one of the most asked questions by a RW is "Why are you looking for a woman in Russia? Aren't there enough pretty, single AW in the USA? The most recent exchange just happened today which prompted me to post this. My client answered that he lives in a small town in the state of Wyoming and that in their town there are a lot more available men than women. Something like 1 woman for every 4 men. This was the responce from a woman:
Irena 05.04.08 23:29
Привет, R*****! Пенза -это тоже, как и у вас, небольшой город в 600 км от Москвы.Но у нас все наоборот, женщин намного больше, чем мужчин.И мужчины этим пользуются.А откуда вы так хорошо говорите по-русски?
Hi R*****! Penza is also, like your town is a small town located 600km from Moscow. But here it's the opposite - a lot more women than men. And men take adventage of this situation. How do you know Russian so well? 

Now this is happening over and over again. Anyone who lives in Russia or spends  considerable amount of time there will confirm the same thing, that there are a lot more available single women than men there.
I'm confused. What am I supposed to do? just look at your stats, dismiss what my eyes and ears are telling me, dismiss basically all my senses, oppinions of people who actually live in Russia and accept your numbers as the gospel? I'm sorry, but 1:1 stats that you presented is not the reality that I see every day of my life!!!
I would like to hear from people who either live in Russia or really did spend at least a few months (6 and up) there. What are your thoughts?

[Serebro]

Eduard, we have men, a lot of them, but many modern women are sure that we don't have enough of "worthy men"for every "worthy woman"//so women have to be either with local men who are so-so as most good men are already married or to look somewhere else.

[Admin]

A while back we had a heated argument on the ratio of available men to women in Russia/FSU. I stated that in accordance to my personal experience of growing up in Russia, finding my own wife there, finding wives for other people and visiting it on a regular basis I felt that there are many more single women than men. I was accused of everything from trying to manipulate the numbers for my own business benefit to being an outright liar (by williamthe3d). It's been a couple of months since that topic was locked. All this time I've been working with several clients and I still see quite the opposite of 1:1 stat that my opponents were presenting. Not only I talk to many Russians both women and men on a daily basis. But I also do translation for my clients who talk with many different women. The general concensus among people from the FSU is always the same - there are a lot more single women than men. I don't know weather they mean only men and women who are looking for a commited relationship, they usually don't specify. But this is what they say (see a letter from a RW woman to my client below). I haven't met one yet who woud say the opposite!
Seems like in the beginning of the correspondence one of the most asked questions by a RW is "Why are you looking for a woman in Russia? Aren't there enough pretty, single AW in the USA? The most recent exchange just happened today which prompted me to post this. My client answered that he lives in a small town in the state of Wyoming and that in their town there are a lot more available men than women. Something like 1 woman for every 4 men. This was the responce from a woman:
Irena 05.04.08 23:29
Привет, R*****! Пенза -это тоже, как и у вас, небольшой город в 600 км от Москвы.Но у нас все наоборот, женщин намного больше, чем мужчин.И мужчины этим пользуются.А откуда вы так хорошо говорите по-русски?
Hi R*****! Penza is also, like your town is a small town located 600km from Moscow. But here it's the opposite - a lot more women than men. And men take adventage of this situation. How do you know Russian so well? 

Now this is happening over and over again. Anyone who lives in Russia or spends  considerable amount of time there will confirm the same thing, that there are a lot more available single women than men there.
I'm confused. What am I supposed to do? just look at your stats, dismiss what my eyes and ears are telling me, dismiss basically all my senses, oppinions of people who actually live in Russia and accept your numbers as the gospel? I'm sorry, but 1:1 stats that you presented is not the reality that I see every day of my life!!!
I would like to hear from people who either live in Russia or really did spend at least a few months (6 and up) there. What are your thoughts?

Eduard,

You may have missed the post I made a while back, here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7337.msg131008#msg131008

There is yet another statistic posted there that contradicts your opinion.

There is an English idiom that goes something like this:

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

It is your choice, of course, but you are certainly paddling up-stream against a torrent on this one.

- Dan

[BC]

As a self employed person, I have the possibility of wandering around our town during times that men are usually working.

Of course I will see more women than men wandering the streets or local markets at those times.

normalna.

[Eduard]

Dan,
you might have noticed that I'm not trying to argue your statistics, rather resolve my confusion about this issue. There is another proverb: "If it walks like a duck...it is a duck" Well it sure looks like a duck to me even  though your official stat says that it's a banana. Could it be that the Russian government trying to cover something up and inventing stats to make RW believe that they have a good chance for a family of their
own with a nice RM? With a huge demographical problem that Russia is dealing with and so many people leaving Russia to live in the West, is it not possible that the government would manipulate the numbers? Would it be the first time for the Russian government to publish false information? IMO these are good questions.
BC, I appreciate your point, but I spend enough time in Russia to see and observe not just shopping malls during the day on a work day. Believe me I have more sense than make a conclusion just from that. And you don't have to just take my word for it. I offered another RW's prospective in my post, that I hear over and over again. Do you think that her and all these other Russian women only come out to shopping malls during the week and formed their opinion on that???
How is it possible that in 2 years of being single, I only went out with 5 women. 4 of them were one date only and one I was seeing for about 2 months, but I totally couldn't stand her attitude and broke it off. On the other hand when I went to Russia at the age of 42 and mentioned to my dad and another friend that I was single and "looking" they had like 5 dates lined up for me in 3 hours?
All my experience tells me that your stats are wrong, Dan. Yes, I see that I am swimming upstream according to you on this one, but so does salmon when it's time to propagate and leave a legacy. They make an ultimate sacrifice and die exhausted after mating and making sure that there is a continuation of their species. I might die exhausted after reading more nasty replies (I'm not referring to yours, but I'm anticipating some from some other distinguished members)
But what a way to go! Another one Dan: "The truth will set you free"!

[Eduard]

Eduard, we have men, a lot of them, but many modern women are sure that we don't have enough of "worthy men"for every "worthy woman"//so women have to be either with local men who are so-so as most good men are already married or to look somewhere else.

so you are just confirming exactly what I'm saying: "but many modern women are sure that we don't have enough of "worthy men"for every "worthy woman" "
The woman who's letter I posted said exactly that, without the "worthy" part
If this is just a perception on the part of many Russian women (and men, including myself) and the reality is different and there is 1 man for 1 woman in the FSU, where is this perception coming from? Why is it that if I was single here in the US I could only get a date occasionally and mostly not with the type of women that I really would want to be with, when in Russia I can have a date with a beautiful, desireble different woman pretty much every day of the week?

[Serebro]

so you are just confirming exactly what I'm saying: "but many modern women are sure that we don't have enough of "worthy men"for every "worthy woman" "
The woman who's letter I posted said exactly that, without the "worthy" part

I don't know what that woman meant, why didn't you ask her and why is this so important for you?! Are you going to bring all avaivable women to your agency?!

[wxman]

Eduard, we have men, a lot of them, but many modern women are sure that we don't have enough of "worthy men"for every "worthy woman"//so women have to be either with local men who are so-so as most good men are already married or to look somewhere else.

I think this statement probably is true in the US too. I would imagine many US women would say there are not enough worthy men in the US. Strangely though, AM dislike AW who think like that, but yet are attracted to RW who do think like that.  Sometimes it seems very hypocritical.

[I/O]

Eduard: Read Serebro's posts up thread twice or thrice.

I/O

[BillyB]

Ed, if you don't believe there's a 1 to 1 ratio of women to men, then you need to call the Russian government a liar for putting out the statistics. Us guys here just repeat what we read from the most reliable sources out there.

Of course us men are going to see more women when we're in the FSU. Not many of us have a habit of staring at other men.

Also, more RW tend to be walking around the time us tourists walk around while the RM work, some long hours and after work, they don't tend to go shopping, visit attractions or walk in the park like RW and tourists do.

Maybe more RW are available because some RM don't want RW. Here's a business idea for you.

http://nvo.com/danikon/gayrussia2001tour/

[wxman]

so you are just confirming exactly what I'm saying: "but many modern women are sure that we don't have enough of "worthy men"for every "worthy woman" "
Why is it that if I was single here in the US I could only get a date occasionally and mostly not with the type of women that I really would want to be with, when in Russia I can have a date with a beautiful, desireble different woman pretty much every day of the week?

One can not equate this with being "worthy" just because you can get a date with any RW. Many women find a puppy cute, but that doesn't mean they would keep it. 

[Gator]

Eduard,

You are correct! 

The others at RWD are not aware of Russia's darkest secret that 80% of Russian men are homosexual, thus yielding an effective ratio of women:men::5:1. 

The Russian government propaganda machine works overtime to repress this truth about the predominance of Blue Boys.  The fact also explains why Russia's birth rate is so low.

[Gator]

Serebro,

Logical explanation from one who lives there and encounters RM.

P. S.  Another new avatar.  You keep me off balance.  With this new one, you need sova t-shirt (see photo).

[Jet]

Eduard, we have men, a lot of them, but many modern women are sure that we don't have enough of "worthy men"for every "worthy woman"//so women have to be either with local men who are so-so as most good men are already married or to look somewhere else.

Bingo! This is exactly the feeling of my wife. It is not that there were no men in her town, there were plenty and quite a few were interested in her, but these are not the type of men she would ever consider getting married to. These men wanted to be married; they wanted a maid, cook, and a Mamma to look after them. They were guys that had a hard time holding onto a job and an even harder time holding onto a paycheck. Some have problems with alcohol, some have problems managing their tempers, some have problems with both. These guys are invisible to women looking for a good husband, and apparently are invisible to you too. Just because they are undesirable doesn't mean they are not there.

[Jet]

If this is just a perception on the part of many Russian women (and men, including myself) and the reality is different and there is 1 man for 1 woman in the FSU, where is this perception coming from? Why is it that if I was single here in the US I could only get a date occasionally and mostly not with the type of women that I really would want to be with, when in Russia I can have a date with a beautiful, desireble different woman pretty much every day of the week?

The perception comes from discounting the existence of those not deemed "worthy" as if they didn't exist. Russian census (or American for that matter) isn't biased against peoples looks/status/mental state. It counts all heads in Russia, not just the pretty ones.

To illustrate a point, here's a lovely 39 yr old Muscavichka looking for her other half

Would you honestly travel half way around the world for this woman when this 39yr old lady is also seeking a husband right in your hometown area?


How about if all you could find in your town who was interested in you was this 39 yr old


Would that entice you to consider going to Sevastopol to meet this one


The women in pictures one and three are no less marriage minded than two and four, but they'll probably have a much more difficult time attracting the Prince Charming of their fairytale dreams.

To be fair, here's two 39 yr old guys, is #1 really less marriage minded than #2? Who do you think has a better shot at finding the Russian lady of their dreams?




_{NOTE: Pictures 1 & 4 are from bride.ru all others from okcupid.com}

[KenC]

I know many people have the same impression as Eduard, including my wife, Lena.  I mentioned this in the other thread but no one really paid much attention to it. 

Let's use Tver as an example of a city rich with marriage minded women and thought to be "short" of men.  First of all it is a city with a university.  It has been told to me that there is a greater number of women attending universities in Russia than men.  Secondly, you would have to take into consideration the military.  Are not Russian males required to join the military at 18?  This alone takes a significant number of males out of our "test" city of Tver.  Once in the military, some of the young men make it a career and others relocate to other areas.  Many young men leave their smaller cities to seek their fortune in Moscow or St Pete.

In summary, maybe there is a 1:1 ratio of men to women, but they might just not be evenly distributed.  Maybe there is more men in Moscow and less in the university cities like Tver.  Make sense? :noidea:
KenC

[viking]

Awww Jet, you know pics don't tell the whole story. The guy in pic one is landing in Moscow next week on his own Gulfstream to cut the opening ribbon to the new 500 room hotel he built in Red Square out of the proceeds he received from selling one of the 5 software houses he started and owns. And he is honest about his looks.

The guy in the second photo is gay, dyes his hair, has only a high school education, can't spell Russa, and works as a delivery man for a furniture company which is why he is muscular.

As far as the women go, I am sure the first 39YO AW is looking for a 35YO hedge fund manager. But she will settle for a 40YO if the company is doing better than the others and his yacht is docked closer to her friends house so she can invite them over for Margarities on the aft deck. The one in photo 4 goes for about $1000/hr but lets ask my ex-governor first. He may have a better handle on this.

As far as the other two ladies are concerned, well they have their work cut out for them selves, BUT..they might be the most loving and honest and loyal companion a double wide guy could ever want. And maybe a little make up class will do wonders.

These photos are the same woman, one sans a supply of cover girl.

[FredC]

Let us not forget that there was that 1 study done here back in the 80's that said something to the effect that a single woman over the age of 30 stood a better chance of getting killed by a terrorist than getting married. I forget the exact age they said, it may have been 40. Now if that were true, then most AW would have been scouring the Earth and we AM would have really been in the catbird seat.

[Caperone]

The others at RWD are not aware of Russia's darkest secret that 80% of Russian men are homosexual, thus yielding an effective ratio of women:men::5:1. 

Oh no! Are you telling me that my buddy Fat Yuri isn't trying to scam me, he actually really wants to marry me? 

 

Seriously, does it really matter? The ratio could be 10:1 or 1:10, the fact is that is still the same amount X of women who are looking for a husband abroad right now. What's the point of fighting on such frivolous matter?

[tim 360]

Jet, Loved your pic's!  And your post too.  I think you did touch on a good point which raw numbers don't really address very well.  I think that just as men seek certain qualities...so do women and this should come as no surprise.  Raw data is just that---raw data.  Even here in the USA mate selection is a complex subject and raw data alone does not yield a comprehensive conclusion.  There are many factors at work here, some tangible and some nearly etheral or nebulous.  However, I think I agree more along your with your statements than what the raw data statements suggest...which does not even compare apples to apples.  Just gross numbers.

Eduard started this thread and I don't think he is too far off the mark, yet there are many factors and I don't know if a generality can suffice.  There are many different women with very different circumstances, like where they live.  An RW with a child or two may have a very difficult time finding a suitable mate.  Raw numbers ignore the details.

[Eduard]

I know many people have the same impression as Eduard, including my wife, Lena.   Maybe there is more men in Moscow and less in the university cities like Tver.  Make sense? :noidea:
KenC

Ken, it seems like the opinion is sharply divided alone Russian and Non-Russian.
Again, your wife Lena, myself and anyone from Russia will say that there are many more available women than men in Russia. And seems like WM who spent very limited time in Russia will insist on the Russian Government's version of truth that they read on the internet.
By the way, Moscow is also a university city, and IMO there are a lot more available women than men in Moscow. This is my hometown, I spend plenty of time there to make this assessment.

[Eduard]

I don't know what that woman meant, why didn't you ask her and why is this so important for you?! Are you going to bring all avaivable women to your agency?!

Serebro, firstly I don't have an agency. I offer a service that finds women outside the usual agency circuit of women. These women are not looking for a foreign husband and are quite different from what most WM meet when they work with an agency.
It is important for me because I'd like to figure out what the real deal is.
You basically confirmed that what I'n saying is true - that many RW feel that there are a lot more available RW (worthy ot not I don't know how can one judge their own worthyness?)
So on one hand you are confirming that my perception is correct, yet you seem to be arguing with me. You said that you didn't know what that woman who wrote the letter meant and that I should have asked her. Well there is nothing to ask. She wrote:
Привет, R*****! Пенза -это тоже, как и у вас, небольшой город в 600 км от Москвы.Но у нас все наоборот, женщин намного больше, чем мужчин.И мужчины этим пользуются.А откуда вы так хорошо говорите по-русски?
Which part of "we have a lot more women than men" you didn't understand?
Anyway, is that realy you on the pic?