Turboguy's K1 Ordeal

[Sonar]

I had no intention to stir up so much dust when I posted here a couple of days ago.

I really do not believe that there is any right or wrong to be taken from any of this.

For me it is only a discussion with many different opinions. But there are always those who feel a need to create a certain outcome.

For those who wish to place a spin or a slant on any of this, let me say that the girl involved would not share in your opinion. Every realtionship is unique in it's own way and the two people involved are the only ones that see everything from the inside.

If necessary, I will try to get the girl ( who is basically the center of this discussion) involved.  There is no doubt that she will tell you the same story about the interview.

She has a computer at her home that I gave her a few years ago and she reads and writes English almost perfectly.

She has apologized to me many times for "being unreasonable"(as she puts it) during her 1 week here in the US and I have apologized to her many times for not being more patient with her. We both understand each other very well.

If she is willing, I will try to get her to tell the story of the interview in Moscow.

[Sonar]

BC, I know what you are saying. But you are a married man with a commitment and obviously a loving wife. There is a hugh difference between you and me in the fact that I am a single man who has not commited to anyone at this time.

I am only in the stage of thinking about another commitment. That is how I ended up here in the first place. I am 'THINKING' about a commitment. The other side to that is I am also 'THINKING' about remaining single. I have not made a decision in either direction yet. For me, single life is very exciting sometimes but it also has it's downside. But I would never become married again without being very close to 100% sure about it. If and when I do become involved in a relationship such as yours, I would most definatly be commited to only her. I do very strongly believe in family values and morality.

As far as emotional baggage is concerned, I got rid of that a couple of years ago. There is no emotional baggage hanging around here.

[andrewfi]

Sonar ~ your question about 'why is it the poor girl' probably tells us much about why you had the problems. If you understood, you would not ask the question, it would not need to be asked.

I do not know you, but we know only what you tell us and for sure it is what you WANT to tell us.

If a person tells me that he invited a woman to his country to marry him and that he sent her home after a week, I would be able to make some reasonable inferences as to that person's tolerance and sensitivity.

If a person tells me that he blames an conversation with a third party for his relationship woes, then  I can make a reasonable inference as to the strength of the relationship.

You are probably a very nice man, with issues. We all have issues, sometimes those issues (baggage, if you will) render us unsuitable for certain types of lifestyle, job, relationship, whatever.

Oh, why is it the poor girl? She is the one giving up her job, life, family, friends, security and more to make her life with a new and strange man in a new country. She is the one with everything to lose although if things work well, both sides have much to gain. So, for, I think most people, the sympathy goes with the 'poor girl' and not with the man who does not understand what he is doing.

[Sonar]

Sonar ~ your question about 'why is it the poor girl' probably tells us much about why you had the problems. If you understood, you would not ask the question, it would not need to be asked.

 So, for, I think most people, the sympathy goes with the 'poor girl' and not with the man who does not understand what he is doing.

Give me a break man. I don't believe in such drama as 'the poor girl syndrome' as you are trying to apply it. Pick the bones all you want but it does not apply to me or my former Russian fiancee'. I did not twist her arm to do anything. Period!!!

She was the one who made first contact with me almost 6 years ago.

She was the one that asked me to visit her in Russia.

She was the one that originally suggested that I give her an engagement ring and possibly become her husband in the future.

She was the one that thought that she wanted to live in the USA.

I was the one that made it all possible for her.

I was the one who traveled halfway around the world to visit her often.

I was the one who provided 100% financial support for her and her parents for three years.

I was the one who encouraged her to think very carefully about what was involved in a multi-cultural relationship.

I was the one who decided that if we were married, we would live 6 months per year in Russia.

It was a 50/50 arrangement and there was just as much risk for me as there was for her. All Russian women are not the 'poor girl' that is totally 100% at the mercy of the guy that takes them away. Mine certainly was not and I would not be interested in such a girl. I realize that when a man takes a girl away from her country and brings her to his, that he is the one totally responsible for her and her happiness. But it's not like I took her to the moon. The world is a very small place today and I can get on a plane and be anywhere in the world that I wish in less than 24 hours in most cases. If I decide that I want to have dinner tomorrow night at the La Cantina on Tverskaya Street in Moscow>> Well guess what>> I can drive 30 minutes to Miami International Airport and be in Moscow in plenty of time. The same always applied for her.

[RacerX]

I understand the "poor," but like Sonar I more often than not, have reservations about the characterization: "poor girl."  I personally know of two cases (most girls find a way to stay) where the girl returned (and I don't mean from these boards) back to her home.  She was more than welcomed by her friends and family and the  employer felt so badly for her, they were both offered their jobs back - OK, one had to get her ex-fiancee to cough up a few $$$ to 'buy back' her job. but they both returned save and sound and a lot wiser.

OTOH, if I had acted like Sonar, my wife would have been on the next flight to Moscow, oh let's see, about five or six times.  I always have my suspicion about those guys who regale us with how great their post-interview lives have been.  Sure, if you marry a "poor" girl, she will have already figured out the best course of action is to keep quiet, go with the flow, and keep her future options viable.

Sonar ~ I think this thread is beginning to take on some of the character of Doug's.  What you did and why will undoubtedly be something we board jockeys will not be able to fully appreciate, BUT, if there's one lesson to be learned IMO: do not bring your fiancee here unless you can totally devote at least the first 1-2 weeks to her.  Likewise, it seems more than a truism that about the third month is the hardest - after the cultural shock and lack of familiarity dissipates, one is in a much better shape to begin a life together.

[andrewfi]

Look man ~ You invited her over and because she was not all sweetness and light you packed off again. Simple.

Now, given that you were the the guy who did this bad thing I am not surprised that you do not agree. You would hardly have posted originally if you felt otherwise! There is no way that  you can spin this in a positive way for you!

If she was the wrong person, then how come you did not pick up on it earlier, you had plenty of time. If you new she was having trouble adjusting, why did you not give her time to adjust. If you knew there were problems why did you not work to deal with them, instead of packing her bags.

This is interesting not because you will modify your stance, you will not. You have sent several years in building a self justified position; but because, hopefully, others can see the picture, the pitfalls and do something about it for themselves.

Just because she agreed to come to the US does not abrogate your responsibilities. If she had not given her consent then I believe the term that applies would be 'kidnap'! TG had problems with his fiancee, at least he was willing to spend the time to work on a solution. You simply got scared.

[Sonar]

Look man ~ You invited her over and because she was not all sweetness and light you packed off again. Simple.

Now, given that you were the the guy who did this bad thing I am not surprised that you do not agree. You would hardly have posted originally if you felt otherwise! There is no way that  you can spin this in a positive way for you!

If she was the wrong person, then how come you did not pick up on it earlier, you had plenty of time. If you new she was having trouble adjusting, why did you not give her time to adjust. If you knew there were problems why did you not work to deal with them, instead of packing her bags.

This is interesting not because you will modify your stance, you will not. You have sent several years in building a self justified position; but because, hopefully, others can see the picture, the pitfalls and do something about it for themselves.

Just because she agreed to come to the US does not abrogate your responsibilities. If she had not given her consent then I believe the term that applies would be 'kidnap'.

You are totally off the wall. In case you don't understand the purpose if a K1 visa, I'll explain. It is a 90 day period for a foreign woman to enter the USA with her potential husband. The key word is POTENTIAL. It is a 90 day period for a man and a woman to decide if they are compatible.

There are No guarantees. She was not heartbroken to go back to Russia. We both were very reasonable about it and it was a mutual agreement. It would not have been very difficult for her to persuade me otherwise if that was what she wanted.

Don't know where you are headed with this kind of BS but I modify my stance on nothing!! Her coming the the US was a mutual agreement between the two of us at the time. It was not written in stone that she would stay or that we would be married. As far as the US government is concerned, that is the sole purpose of a K1 visa. To decide!!! It may be different in your country but that is of no concern to me.

Kidnap?? What are you some kind of joker or something?? And exactly what responsibilities of mine do you feel were abrogated? There were no responsibilities to annul since we were two single people. My responsibilities were to care for her while she was here and insure her safe return shoud it be necessary. Those responsibilities were met 100%.

[Bruno]

If she was the wrong person, then how come you did not pick up on it earlier, you had plenty of time.

I will write here for general of my personal case...

Why men cannot pick up problem earlier ?

Several people change with time... a woman can have some ireal expectation of foreign life... a woman can loose interest in man after be together, thinking that the work is finish...

In my own case, i have pick the problem when she have ask the divorce, just after she have receive the Belgium nationality...

I don't think that so much men are telepath ( mind reader ) and are able to pick what woman think really... woman can be in bad mood and say nothing, so you are not able to adjust yourself and correct the problem...

Andrew, you attack Sonar and find him a bad guy... you have nothing who confirm it... What you have wish, that he marry a woman with who he have already problem... Are you lawer and are prospecting for new customer ( divorce )... when something is wrong, when both side agree, it is better break off early that be hurt more hardly later...

When Turbo have write that he was 50/50 in the middle of the K1 periode, it was already the end... he have try to repair but what repair in so short time when the relation is just started...

And who are you for judge Sonar... you the man who have never be married, with numerous relation with FSU woman... in all you starting love relation, have you never have one who have last only one week or fewer...

In my life, i have know relation who have last a few year, some one year, some one month, some one week and several one night... I have break some relation, woman have break some other... a few was break by mutual accord...

Give a break, we are all the same, we try to find the right way... sometime, we make mistake in our choice... nobody is perfect...

 

[Ste]

[user=630]Sonar[/user]
You are totally off the wall. In case you don't understand the purpose if a K1 visa, I'll explain. It is a 90 dayperiod for a foreign woman to enter the USA with her potential husband. The key word is POTENTIAL. It is a 90 day period for a man and a woman to decide if they are compatible.

I'm not an expert on US immigration but everyone here and on other boards tell me that the K-1 visa is NOT a trial period, it is a MARRIAGE visa, the 90 days being to arrange and commit ur wedding vows, not see if you like each other or not.

Perhaps others can add to this?

Ste

[KenC]

Sonar,

You wrote:

As far as the US government is concerned, that is the sole purpose of a K1 visa. To decide!!!

Um, wrong answer, Sonar.  The 90 days are given to make wedding arrangements and not for test drives.  You had to swear to the fact that you were engaged to marry this woman within 90 days.  Didn't you read the documents?  The commitment to marry is an absolute condition of a K-1.

"Poor girl" doesn't apply to all RW in relations with an AM.  You are correct.  But the term does apply in this case.  This "poor girl" wasted 3 years of her life on a guy willing to cut bait after a weeks worth of minor problems.  Yeah, poor girl that was willing to give up everything she ever knew for a guy that dumped her ass after a few days of less than great time together.  Yeh, poor girl that choose a man that was not ready for a relationship let alone marriage.

Sonar, you really have mastered the art of playing "victim" haven't you?  Everyone is at fault except you:

Finacee wrote to you.  (You didn't write back?)

Finacee decided on engagement (You didn't agree?)

Finacee wanted a ring.  (Silly girl.  Isn't this standard?)

Finacee wanted to move to USA (You didn't want her here?)

Exwife ambushed you with the embassy (Who gave her the ammunition?)

Embassy CO ruined your relationship  (Now you really didn't give your fiancee time to see what, if any, that impact would have on your relationship did you?)

I know, I know, you Sonar, are a hero.  You traveled to Russia (Where on earth did you think Russian women lived?), you spent a lot of money (Did you think it was gonna be cheap?) and you most importantly of all were willing to sacrifice all of seven fricken days of your life in order to make it work.  What a guy!

RacerX,

I too see the similarities to our friend Photo.  It is called impulsive behavior.  But in another way they are Polar opposites: One is impulsively rushing into a relationship while the other impulsively rushed out of one.

KenC

 

[Sonar]

[user=630]Sonar[/user]
You are totally off the wall. In case you don't understand the purpose if a K1 visa, I'll explain. It is a 90 day period for a foreign woman to enter the USA with her potential husband. The key word is POTENTIAL. It is a 90 day period for a man and a woman to decide if they are compatible.

I'm not an expert on US immigration but everyone here and on other boards tell me that the K-1 visa is NOT a trial period, it is a MARRIAGE visa, the 90 days being to arrange and commit ur wedding vows, not see if you like each other or not.

Perhaps others can add to this?

Ste[/quote]
General Information: The K-1 Visa, also known as the Fiancée Visa, may be used by United States citizens who wish to bring their prospective husbands or wives to the United States with the intention of getting married. Minor children of fiancées can also accompany them to the United States, they will be issued K-2 visas. The U.S. citizen must file a petition with the USCIS on behalf of the foreign fiancé(e). After the petition is approved, the fiancé(e) can obtain a K-1 fiance visa. The K-1 visa is issued at a U.S. embassy or consulate abroad. The marriage must take place within 90 days of the fiancé(e) entering the United States.
The above is the official definition.

http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/visa_k1.html

The definition of a K1 visa can be somewhat subjective depending on where you go for your information. My defination is informal and based on an Immigration attorney's point of view.

At the time that I applied for the K1, my intentions were marriage. At the time when I brought her here, I was not so sure. There is nothing that says that you must become married. It only says that if you do become married, you must do it within a 90 day period.

Does anyone know of any statics that exist regarding K1 visas that do not result in marriage? I'm beginning to fell that I am the only one who had ever sent a Russian girl back home. 

[KenC]

Sonar,

There is no way a K-1 would be issued if your fiancee told the embassy that marriage wasn't a sure thing.

KenC

[Sonar]

As far as the US government is concerned, that is the sole purpose of a K1 visa. To decide!!!

Um, wrong answer, Sonar.  The 90 days are given to make wedding arrangements and not for test drives.  You had to swear to the fact that you were engaged to marry this woman within 90 days.  Didn't you read the documents?  The commitment to marry is an absolute condition of a K-1.



 
[/quote]
Sure the absolute condition of a k1 is a commitment to marry. I think that we all know this. And when I applied, those were my intentions!!!!!!!!!

I didn't want to go this far with this because it is embarassing to admit it but I began to feel very suspicious about her just before I brought her here. Caught her in a couple of lies for one thing.

She was spending a lot of time on the internet also which I found a little suspicious. She also refused to bring the IBM Thinkpad that I had given her. What does that tell you?

She had another cell phone with another # in addition to the one that I had given her. I of course did not have the #. The cell phone rang several times while she was here. Everytime they were very short calls and she said that it was her mother. I had no reason to doubt her until one evening when we had just returned from dinner. We were watching tv and her cell phone rings. She anwers it and speaks in Russian for a few minutes. Then she looks at me and says "Mother says very big hello to you". About 2 minutes later my house phone rings while she is still on her cell phone. Guess who it was? Her mother who I know very well and speaks some English. I spoke to her for about 5 minutes while at the same time my girl claims to be speaking to her on the cell.

After my girl finished her conversation she again says to me the her mother sends a big hello. When I told her that I had just spent 5 minutes speaking to her mother and that her mother wants to speak to her she actually turned pale white, knowing that I had caught her in a lie. She went into the bedroom and refused to talk about it. I have no idea who she was talking to but it was definately not her mother.

There are a few other things also but there is no need to go into detail about it. 

Go ahead Ken C and continue your attack. YOU ARE WRONG!!

 

[Sonar]

Sonar,

There is no way a K-1 would be issued if your fiancee told the embassy that marriage wasn't a sure thing.

KenC

Who said that she told the embassy that?? Hell, I don't know what she told the embassy or what the embassy told her since I was not allowed in.

[BC]

[size="-1"]The consular officer is required by law to verify that your relationship with your Fiancee is real and that you do intend to marry within 90 days of your Fiancee's arrival in the United States.  [/size]
[size="-1"]Your Fiancee will be required to sign a statement regarding his or her legal capacity to marry and intention to marry.
[/size]
[size="-1"]http://www.usavisanow.com/k1fianceevisainfo.html[/size]
[size="-1"]also one of these visa support/attorney orgs
[/size]

[KenC]

Sonar,

We can only respond to the information you provide.  You are now presenting a completely different story than before.

KenC

[Sonar]

Ken, I am only giving more information than I originally felt necessary. I don't want to label this girl as a scammer. That leads to an entirely different area where I perfer not to go.

Man you guys are wearing me out. And besides that, the Steelers/Browns game is coming on in a few minutes.

Merry Christmass to everyone and may the world be at peace tonight.

GO STEELERS !!!

[BC]

Sonar,

Nobody here is attacking.. just trying to figure out curious bottom readings on the scope..

Verbal proctology practiced here may be uncomfortable but surely no harm intended.  

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"][color="darkred"]Sonar,
Welcome to the rugby match!

I don't think you have changed your story. I do think you have added additional information.

I do think there are valid reasons for cancelling an engagement prior to marriage. I think most would agree with me. If she turned out to be the opposite of the person you had known for the prior three years, or some fatal flaw came to light, like she had a penchant for throwing kitchen knives after breakfast or something.
If the relationship falls apart, both parties must share the responsibility. True, I generally feel that the western man is probably a little more responsible, but it's debatable.

Maybe your reasons for sending her home were valid. Here at RWD, we only see the tip of your iceberg. On the other hand, your story encourages us to ask questions.

You knew her for three years before she came over. You were in love with her. Then you saw a strange dark side of her, when she gave you the sullen silent treatment during those first 7 days.  You now say there were other factors for rejecting her. Okay, I'll take your word for it.

It's my understanding that Turbo endured a lot of crap with his fiancee when she was over here with him. I give him a lot of credit for spending 89 days with her, before sending her back. So that's the part of your story that bothers me- the 7 days with your fiancee. I remember the jet lag I had in Kiev. A major negative factor.

How did you handle her silent treatment? Did you sit her down and tell her you think the world of her? Did you apologize and ask her to forgive you? (for the alleged transgression) Before she arrived, did you tell her what your work schedule would be? Any mature woman would realize that a husband must go to work, in most cases. If a woman will not discuss what is bothering her, you have to force the issue.

:offtopic:How do guys here at RWD deal with the silent treatment?   -doug   [/color][/size]

[Turboguy]

Hi Sonar,

This is off topic, but it is quite a game.  Where are you that you are a Steeler fan?

 

[KenC]

How do guys here at RWD deal with the silent treatment?   -doug  

Women give the silent treatment in hopes that you will pay more attention to them.  I do agree with you when you said:

Did you sit her down and tell her you think the world of her?

But not when you said:

Did you apologize and ask her to forgive you? (for the alleged transgression)

Why would you ever apologize for something wrong if there was no wrong doing?  A foreign bride takes much more patience than a hometown girl because of the many other adjustment factors involved, but you still have to be careful as to not set precedences that you are not willing to live with later.  It is a bit of a tightrope you need to walk.  You want to do everything possible to help them adapt to their new enviornment, but not spoil them to a point of being totally PW'd.

The "silent treatment" is an attention getter, period.  If they get the attention they seek, expect more of the same.

What to do?  Tell them that you love them and leave them to their own silence.  (Ignore it)

KenC[/size][/color][/font][/b]

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"][color="darkred"]Ken,
Yes, I understand what you are saying. I think there can be disagreements over a 'wrong-doing'. It could be a fight over whether or not something IS a wrong-doing. It's subjective. What is a trivial item to you, could be a major transgression to her, especially if there is some unexpected cultural misunderstanding. I can remember the way my grandparents interacted. He would do something(trivial) that she considered a 'wrong-doing', she would become livid, and he would apologize which had the effect of totally disarming her. This would happen about once or twice a month. It seemed to be a better strategy than locking horns. If the 'fight' is over something very serious, than that would call for holding a firmer position. I think you can apologize in a way that honors her, while not compromising your point of view, or values. You are right- you have to walk a fine line. It's a valuable social skill. I might sit her down and say, 'Look, I am sorry I had to work overtime. You KNOW I'd rather be home here with you. This happens with my job sometimes- they unexpectedly need me to work a couple of hours extra. You can expect that this will happen about twice a month. I have a great job. I enjoy it, but it is not perfect. When I am at work, I miss you very much. Today during my lunch break I was telling jb how happy I am that I found you.' [/color][/size]

[KenC]

Doug,

There will be many tests along the way.  The one to look out for is the "I want to go home" one that is sure to come.  If you allow your woman to play that card as a way of manipulating you, you are toast.  My answer was and always will be, "I love you and I don't want you to go, but if you want to leave I will not stop you.  When do you want your flight out"?  We are way past all that silliness, but take it as a preview of coming attractions.

KenC

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"][color="darkred"]Ken,
I totally agree. That reminds me of a tour I was driving about ten years ago. A demanding high-maintenance couple from New York, was threatening to leave the tour, because they were not granted the 'proper' time for their upcoming dinner reservation at Grand Canyon. They became very aggressive about it, telling the tour director that they were personal friends of the owner of the tour company in Connecticut. The tour director was this big burly guy from Montana. The couple got in his face and since he was not going to give in to their demand, they were going to 'leave the tour'.  I was curious to see how he would handle it. He politely told them that he thought they were making a mistake leaving such a fine tour, but he would make arrangements for them to fly home, out of the Grand Canyon airport, the next morning. The rude couple backed off. They became quiet. The next day that couple was cheerful and far from angry, and without compaints.  They went on to enjoy the tour, just like the other guests.

So yes, you have to stand your ground, and be a man.  -doug[/color][/size]

[Sonar]

Hi Sonar,

This is off topic, but it is quite a game.  Where are you that you are a Steeler fan?

 

Hey Turboguy,

I'm in south Florida near Miami. But I was born in Pittsburg and I go there a few times every year to catch Steeler games. Been a Steelers fan all of my life. I love the city of Pittsburg. A lot of good and friendly people there very much unlike Miami.


Hey, how about James Harrison slamming that Cleveland fan yesterday. HaHa!!

You are not a Browns fan are you? Being from Beaver Falls I would think not.