Turboguy's K1 Ordeal

[Bruno]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Okay Bruno. I will brace myself for her abrasive side. And then I'll try to reform her. I'll make sure my guns are locked up.

Photo, you are not yet married... but you can be sure that when a RW will something, she have it... but don't woorry, if you are a good guy, the reward is over the problem... but you will know some not easy period... RW have good but hard character...

Don't worry, you will know it soon... :?

PS : Your gun are nothing... RW use bazooka :P:P I am almost sure that the one already married will agree with me... it is very difficult to win a argument with a RW... you need to be very strong ...

 

 

[jb]

PhotoGuy,,

You may not like the way I express myself, your choice, you don't have to read my posts..

However I generally choose my words with some care because where I went  to school I was taught that words have weight and measure.  When  I'm discussing something as important as who is and who isn't marriage  material I don't want to risk someone being in doubt about my  meaning.  I might have chosen softer words to make my point, but I  would fear the inexperienced among us might come to think I didn't  actually believe in that which I speak.  I always try to make the  issues clear, and my talking points are designed to be as forceful as  possible.

BTW, both you and Bruno are totally wrong with your 80/20 ratio  horsehocky.  If you marry the wrong woman it's 100% hell, OTOH, if  you are lucky and smart enough to marry an intelligent woman who loves  you, and is willing to pull in tandem with you, it's 100% good.  I  know, I'm married to such a RW. 

[Bruno]

BTW, both you and Bruno are totally wrong with your 80/20 ratio horsehocky.  If you marry the wrong woman it's 100% hell, OTOH, if you are lucky and smart enough to marry an intelligent woman who loves you, and is willing to pull in tandem with you, it's 100% good.  I know, I'm married to such a RW. 

I have use the ratio 80/20 because it was used before in these topic... like i have post before , you need to be sure at 100% before marriage...

But how to be sure 100%... same now, i have some doubt... specialy because of the difference of age... JB, if you have the magic receipt to be sure at 100%, give it to us... i am sure that a lot of guys here wish have it...

Yes, i forget... 100% sure don't exist, some doubt always stay...

100% good !!! Don't you have some argument with you wife... some moment when she don't agree with you... i don't think that 100% all the life is possible... maybe in faery tale but not in real world...

 

[TigerPaws]

 Marrage is a gamble, a calculated risk a man hopefully dose anything and everything possible to minimize the risk and of course works hard and in earnest to make the relationship work.

 The only thing which is 100% in life is that you will die, everything else is up to you.

[KenC]

Sonar, OTOH, if he did not overlook issues beforehand, certainly found a load in a tiny amount of time, if he is to be believed. As we know that people do not change in any significant manner in a very short period of time, we can discount the 'personality change' argument. So, he had not done his due diligence, or not kept good notes and thus did not know his inamorata at all well, even though they had had a 'relationship' lasting 3 years. In Sonar's case he then ran away as soon as he found, at a time, for her in particular, of immense stress, that she did not act exactly as she had done in the comfort of her home environment. She (and he) might have been great once she had settled down and he had learned to give something of himself, to do his job properly.

I agree totally.

KenC

[jb]

No, Bruno, my wife and I do not fight or argue in the common sense of  the word.  Do we ever disagree?  Certainly we do, however we  are mature enough to discuss points of opinion without it ever  escalating into a full blown arguement.   Of course, we  actually share a common language so our communication ability is far  better than most men picking a MOB agency bride.  We have a lot of  interests in common, we are both educated in the hard sciences, we both  have either taught, or currently teach, at the college level, we both  enjoy the same recreational activities, but most importantly, our  little family is the most important thing to both of us, and the two  boys are a constant source of pride to their mother and to me.

You asked for my recipe for building a 100% happy marriage.  I  have given it to all who are willing to listen about a million  times.  The problem is not too many guys are willing to invest  what is required to achieve that level of confidence in their wife or  g/f.  The list looks something like this:

1.) You just can't do it in a week.
2.) You can't do it with infatuation over a photograph. 
3.) You can't do it with just little head thinking. 
4.) You can't do it with short term passion.
5.) You can't do it on a shoestring budget.
6.) You can't do it all on a 90 days K-1 visa.
7.) You can't do it showing only the green lure.
8.) You can't do it on unrealistic expectations.
9.) You can't do it like a business deal.
10.) You'd better really be in love with her, not a masturbatory fantasy.
11.) She had better really love you, not your money or lifestyle.
12.) You had better be willing to go all the way before you write the first letter.
13.) You have to invest all of your worldly possessions in your wife and family.
14.) You have to be ready to support her mentally as well as physically.
15.) You can't do it out of self interest.
16.) You have to recognise you are not alone, there are her desires as well.

These items, and many many more, are necessary to make a marriage work  and all that presumes you have fallen in love with a good and honest  woman.  If you can't, or won't, make the effort then perhaps you  aren't quite ready for marriage.

It's up to you, Kemosabe

[Bruno]

These items, and many many more, are necessary to make a marriage work and all that presumes you have fallen in love with a good and honest woman. 

The bold character sentence is something not easy... some people ( and i was from these group before ) choose always the wrong woman...

About your list, not bad... some parameter can maybe be removed but certainly a lot of other can be added...

But in short, if both partner are able to work TOGETHER for build a happy life, all is possible... being married is mainly sharing his life with someone other... the good and the bad

 

[Photo Guy]

[color="darkred"][size="3"]jb, Excellent post! Again. [/size][size="3"][/size]
[/color][size="3"][color="darkred"]Without put-downs or accusations about having her running around the house 'barefoot and pregnant', or your disdain for alleged lowly career choices.

jb, gems -like your post above do add a lot to RWD. I and many here appreciate your great insights, as opposed to your ..darker side. But, hey, nobody's perfect.  -doug

PS  And Bruno mentions a key factor- the ability to perceive a 'good' woman.
[/color] [/size]

[jb]

The bold character sentence is something not easy... some people (  and i was from these group before ) choose always the wrong woman...

My little list was not intended as the "be all/end all".  Go back  and re-read items #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 11, and 15 again.  Mostly  this is called due diligence, heedfulness of any warning signs, and the  willingness to cast your line into the waters again and again until you  get it right.  A pretty face and sexy body does not necessarily  make for an honest character, if that were the case most of the women  in the world would be perfect wives.

You need to learn to read between the lines a bit and see what is being  said by her actions as much as by her words.  Persistence usually  pays off in the end, but it's the "leap before you look" that will make  you pay the price for such foolishness.

[TigerPaws]

You asked for my recipe for building a 100% happy marriage.  I have given it to all who are willing to listen about a million times.  The problem is not too many guys are willing to invest what is required to achieve that level of confidence in their wife or g/f.  The list looks something like this:

1.) You just can't do it in a week.  Agreed
2.) You can't do it with infatuation over a photograph.  Agreed
3.) You can't do it with just little head thinking.  Agreed
4.) You can't do it with short term passion. Agreed
5.) You can't do it on a shoestring budget. Agreed
6.) You can't do it all on a 90 days K-1 visa. Agreed
7.) You can't do it showing only the green lure. Agreed
8.) You can't do it on unrealistic expectations. Agreed
9.) You can't do it like a business deal. Wrong
10.) You'd better really be in love with her, not a masturbatory fantasy. Agreed

11.) She had better really love you, not your money or lifestyle. Hopefully
12.) You had better be willing to go all the way before you write the first letter. In a perfect world yes.
13.) You have to invest all of your worldly possessions in your wife and family. Wrong
14.) You have to be ready to support her mentally as well as physically. Agreed

15.) You can't do it out of self interest. Hopefully
16.) You have to recognise you are not alone, there are her desires as well. Agreed

These items, and many many more, are necessary to make a marriage work and all that presumes you have fallen in love with a good and honest woman.  If you can't, or won't, make the effort then perhaps you aren't quite ready for marriage.

It's up to you, Kemosabe Agreed

 More agreement than disagreement jb, what we disagee on are things which are just as important as those we agree on. A marrage is a contract, now how you view a contract and how I view a contract seem to be vastly different. Love is a wonderful thing until things go wrong in a relationship for so many reasons, the all too often love turns to hate.

 Taking steps in order to keep what was, is and will be mine has worked for my family for generations as it has for many others. That is part of the business of marrage and you can never take things personally in business.

 As for seeking a lady from the FSU out of self interest, we all (generally) do what is our best self interest. It was in my best interest to think outside of the box in an effort to find a lady who was different than those I was and had been exposed to here in America and the FSU offered those oppertunities. It was in my best interest to look elsewhere, there is nothing inherently wrong in looking out for yourself first and foremost because no one else will if you do not.

 

[Sonar]

The other side of the coin is Sonar.  He accepts no resonsibility what so ever for his failure.  In fact he insistantly maintains that he did everything right and that his failure is the deed of others.  He plays a victim of the CO in the embassy, his exwife, and a bad RW. With an attitude like that, I doubt he will ever succeed in this process.

KenC

That is a funny post. I really don't know how the word FAILURE applies since there was no failure. I sent her back to avoid failure.

I think that maybe you are probably insecure in your own relationship and attacking me seems to fill some need for you. Maybe it makes you feel more successful?

I thought that this was over since I was told to let it die. But I suppose that you and some others think differently. Not a problem.

It's also funny that you and some others try to come across as so concerned about "newbys". Newbys to what? FSUW's? Women in general? Relationships?

You are not concerned about anything other than your own false sense of superiority.

[Sonar]

There are many differences and one overriding and very significant similarity. Both guys MUST have overlooked issues in the relationship before the girl went to the interview and on to the US. We know that TG did because, afterward, he told us so, and, of course, it was already pretty plain from previous posts that he was well fitted with blinkers!

Sonar, OTOH, if he did not overlook issues beforehand, certainly found a load in a tiny amount of time, if he is to be believed. As we know that people do not change in any significant manner in a very short period of time, we can discount the 'personality change' argument. So, he had not done his due diligence, or not kept good notes and thus did not know his inamorata at all well, even though they had had a 'relationship' lasting 3 years. In Sonar's case he then ran away as soon as he found, at a time, for her in particular, of immense stress, that she did not act exactly as she had done in the comfort of her home environment. She (and he) might have been great once she had settled down and he had learned to give something of himself, to do his job properly.

 

Once again, conjecture, based on biased opinion, does not equal fact. I don't care what you believe or don't believe. I have no reason to come here and start a fictional account of anything. What are your doubts? That the interview process was a nightmare? That I brought her here on a K1? That I sent her home after 1 week? That she turned out to be a scammer?

All of this happened more than two years ago. The only regrets that I have are bringing her here in the first place.

 

[andrewfi]

Sonar ~ If your purpose in importing a woman to the us, following a long drawn out courtship was to run scared like a little girl from a spider, then, you are right. No failure there at all!

If your purpose in engaging in the process, spending all the time and effort on both parties, was to build a relationship then, undoubtedly you failed.

Did you avoid failure, in what seems to be your terms, by sending the woman back? No, you did not. You failed before she got on the plane to the US. This is NOT conjecture. You failed to know the person well enough to bring her to the US to make the preparations for a marriage. You failed to address those issues which you say only became apparent after the visa interview and you failed to plan your life so that you could effectively aid your interlocutor in her insertion into her new environment.

Just a few thoughts:

What reading and prepared learning had you done in respect of cultural adjustment, what did you know of the issues and symptoms and timescale of culture shock?

What planning had you done to allow your initial weeks to be spent together, or at the least, for her, with a mentor, during your forced abscences?

What materials had you provided her with before her journey to the US, to enable her to engage in self directed study?

What processes had you gone through to ensure that you were ready for a full time marital committment following your recent divorce?

-If what you tell us is correct, and from your perspective, it probably is, there is no way in which this person should have  been on a plane to your home country. Not her fault though, but yours. Building a relationship is a two way street, both parties must contribute, but in the final analysis, you were the one who asked her to marry you and live in your country, this places an additional burden of responsibility upon you. At least you realised quickly that you were not capable of supporting her and sent her home fast. Had you done things properly, she would not have been in the US at all.

[Sonar]

Sonar ~ If your purpose in importing a woman to the us, following a long drawn out courtship was to run scared like a little girl from a spider, then, you are right. No failure there at all!

andrewfin,

You really are a funny guy. I can not remember being "scared" of anything. Or "running " from anything. What I do remember is ending a relationship with a girl who was given every opportunity to prove that she was more than just an opportunist. She could not do it so I quickly cut my losses. Plain and simple.

QUOTE : "I think that there is plenty of empirical evidence to suggest that love is not very high on the list of priorities of many women who leave the FSU by means of relationships." andrewfin November 14, 2005

QUOTE : "Andrewfi said it a long time ago, a very high percentage of the hot chicks who populate the MOB sites are little more than prostitutes,,, pure and simple. I made the mistake of disbelieving him at the time, but I've come to agree with him after watching the local MOB's in action. Most of these girls are just bad news trash."
jb (oct13)

QUOTE : "I have met more than one RW that seemed to have a plan and worked her plan to perfection without a bat of an eye in regard to the morality of her actions."
(KenC Oct 13, 05.0]

QUOTE : "My wife, Lena, has always maintained that 90 to 95% of the girls in her agency were of low moral character and her's was a very respected agency."
(Ken C) (Oct.13)

The above quotes come from you guys in recent posts elsewhere on this board. Maybe you and KenC don't believe your own words????That is the true mark of a hypocrite. DEFINITION : A person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold.

Are you a hypocrite andrewfin?? I will allow you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you are either mistaken or confused.  Maybe you can pass this message along to KenC also.

[Turboguy]

Good post Sonar,  I would like to believe there are some good gals out there, and I hope I am lucky enough to find one but I have to score that one as One point for Sonar.

I will also add that I still have some occassional communications with my former fiancee and it never ceases to amaze me the lies she can tell and expect me to believe, the way she can twist the past and the plots she can hatch.   

 

[jb]

Sonar,

You came to this board, made a few statements, and got a mauling for  your efforts. I'm sorry about that, but life isn't a game with fair and  foul rules.     What I think is important in doing this  post-mortem on your K-1 experience is to look at the relationship  rather objectively, without the passion that so often veils problems to  us on the inside, while an outsider can see rather quickly and clearly  things you never imagined.  There are some things that I think  deserve a closer look, things that we would expect to see in a 3 year  courtship.  If we can succeed in doing that, there's a possibility  your story might save some one else some large amount of grief down the  line.

It might be helpful if you provided a little background.  How old  was the girl, how old are you, how did you meet, how soon after you met  did the relationship become sexual, how well did she treat you whenever  you were visiting, how well did she treat others, where was she from,  did you meet with her family, if so, how well did you interact with her  family. how well did she speak English, how well do you speak Russian,  what was her education level, in what field, and what was her  profession, how often during the courtship did you meet with her, when  you visited her did you do it in her town or was there a history of  nice vacations someplace else, did you communicate often by phone or  e-mail during the away times, were you supporting her, i.e.,was there a  sum of money sent monthly, how about gifts, were there ever any  unexplained absences, times when you called and she was unavailable to  talk?

I ask this sample of questions, other married members may ask  more,  and beg that you review in your mind the answers based on  the spread of the entire 3 year courtship.  If you are honest with  yourself I'm pretty sure you'll spot some red flags.  You, of  course, are free to reveal as much or as little as you wish. 

[catzenmouse]

jb,

 That was a very good post! The kind of post that this board has been known for and why people are coming here in bunches. I think if this had been said earlier there would not have been so much of the sniping tone to this thread lately. Of course, there will always be those who will be nasty just for the sake of being nasty but that is their problem and it soon becomes obvious to people here who they are and to ingnore most of what they say.

 Since this is an out of the ordinary adventure (or occupation may be a better term) there really are no cut and dried methods to achieve success. Yes, there are some very basic things to look out for and rules to follow but there are successes in following all the rules as well as failures. The same to be said for not following all the rules. In my own case, I made a lot of stupid mistakes and did a lot of things the wrong way and ended up walking through the mine field blindfolded to fall into a bed of roses. I do not promote anything I did as I am very much the exception to the rules it just so happens that even an idiot like me can find the pot of gold so to speak.

FWIW,
  Ken

[jb]

As an extra thought, ( I always think of other stuff after I hit the  "send" button), when reviewing these stories we often use the  expression, "unrealistic expectations", without a clear definition of  what that term means.  Often when I ask that I get answers dealing  with the physical, the guy sez; "I'm at least a 7 in the looks  department, and she was a 9, I thought we were a pretty good  match".  Or; " I'm a tall guy so I need a tall girl". Personally I think these are the worst kind of answers of all,  however when dealing with MOB agencies that's very often as deep as it  gets.

When I ask that, I really mean; what points did you have in common?  What interests did you share with this woman? And perhaps most  importantly, what was going on in the relationship that made you think  you wanted to marry this particular woman?  And her to marry you?  Did you aspire to marry and have children, to build a family  life?  What were your goals?  Was she of the same  mindset?  What talking points did you discuss in depth when you  were both in a sober mode?  (I'm not talking about being drunk  here, but infatuation/love can lead to an euphoric state of mind that  simulates a drunken stupor). Men do some very dumb things when in the  presence of a pretty woman.  There has to be some reasons you  picked this woman in which to invest 3 years of your life other than  she was very pretty, or she was good in bed.  No man ever gets  that lonely.

Anyway, I think you get the idea.

[Bruce]

JB, thanks for three super posts that really gets to the heart of the matter.  I think Sonar as well as other guys in "the process" of meeting and marrying will reflect on your words, which is all any of us could do to positively contribute to others personal lives .   

[jb]

Thank you, Ken, for the nice words.  And Bruce,,, you snuck in on me as I was responding to Ken.

  Of course, there will always be those who will be nasty just for the sake of being nasty

Just so you'll know, there is an element of this board which firmly  believe that I'm nasty just for the sake of being nasty.  However,  mostly I try to be a catalyst for discussion.   If you have  noticed, there are several other married men here, much like me, who  are able to play straight guy for each other when needed to drive home  important points, BC, KenC, Jet, and Leslie are superb examples of  this.  I almost always rely upon men like them to amplify and  extend a thought.  Sometimes we get it right, other times we just  piss someone off, it can't be helped.  But I think I can assure  you we are not just being nasty for the fun of it.

[catzenmouse]

jb,

 I've never thought you were nasty in your posts. I think you see a lot of things very clearly and offer a great perspective to others here. When I first came here I often thought your posts were rather harsh in tone but after getting to know you (via your posts here as much as one can know another in this type of setting) I revised my opinion and just see a straight shooter saying it how they see it. Very refreshing at times in this othwerwise PC speak world of ours.

Ken

[Turboguy]

To be honest jb, there was a time back in the Photoguy discussion time that I thought you were very nasty.   I don't anymore.  I think you are a very wise person with some solid ideas that tries to educate and help.  You might not be overflowing with tact sometimes, but you are with wisdom.

[jb]

PhotoGuy is a very special case.  When his lunacy is pointed out,  he argues pointlessly, post after post.  That trait kinda gets  under my skin.  He's not a bad person, but he does constantly seek  affirmation for what I, and a host of others, view as very dumb ideas  and actions.  I couldn't believe it when I heard he'd filed the  K-1 petition for a gal he'd barely met.  Further, he refused to  make a second trip to get to know the woman before he pulled the  trigger and proposed marriage to basically a total stranger.

Maybe he does possess psychic powers that yield unto him greater  knowledge than the rest of us, but I doubt it.  And in all  honesty, I can't say his plan of action won't  culminate in the  happiest marriage of all.  I've seen stranger things.

I don't wish PG bad things, I just wouldn't do anything as important as  selecting a life partner with so little to support that decision.

[KenC]

Sonar,

I'm going to try and back off a bit, because I think that if you choose to respond to jb's post, there is where the answers lye that I have been trying to beat out of you.  But in your post you wrote:

QUOTE : "I have met more than one RW that seemed to have a plan and worked her plan to perfection without a bat of an eye in regard to the morality of her actions."
(KenC Oct 13, 05.0]

QUOTE : "My wife, Lena, has always maintained that 90 to 95% of the girls in her agency were of low moral character and her's was a very respected agency."
(Ken C) (Oct.13)

The above quotes come from you guys in recent posts elsewhere on this board. Maybe you and KenC don't believe your own words????That is the true mark of a hypocrite. DEFINITION : A person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold.

I don't see where my previous posts are hypocritical in any way with my posts directed at you.  Are there "agenda girls" in the fsu?  Of course.  Are there girls with low moral character in the fsu?  Of course. 

 But here is where your story doesn't seem balanced to me and many others:  You took more than enough time (3 years) to explore and determine just what kind of woman you had found.  Certainly you should be able to determine a woman's character and expose any agenda she might have.  During that period you determined that she was worthy of your time, energy and affection not to mention the tremendous financial investment.  Your judgement of this woman led you to believe that there was a hope that a everlasting marriage might be in the cards.  Yet, all of this went for naught in the miniscule time of seven days.  That doesn't sound possible.  How could she fool you for 3 years?

KenC

[Turboguy]

Ken, Personally, I think it can happen.  I made 4 trips to visit Luda and never noticed a lie.   When she came here, the first 6 weeks she was here I never noticed a lie.  From that point on, she became the biggest liar I have met in my life.  

Sonar's issue was trust.  In my case, when I was making visits to Luda sometimes she got some phone calls that she walked into another room to talk.  I never worried a lot about that.  Some of the times I could hear the voice enough to know it was a female on the other end.  In the USA I might have thought more about phone calls and wondered who she was talking to. 

That was a situalion with Sonar, It was never a problem in my failed realtionship.  I think sometimes you make certain allowances.  If you beleive in someone you want to trust them.  I think in Sonar's case the big problem was when they were both talking to her mother at the same time.   Perhaps if her mother had not called at that instant he might have a divorce and failed marriage to talk about instead of a failed K-1.   Once trust is destoryed it is hard to build back.