Guideline to Decide if She is a Life Partner

[KenC]

Kuna,
What the hell is wrong with you?  Do you not have an ounce of a sense of humor in your body?  I make a couple of off the cuff humorous statements, meant to make you chuckle and you come back at me like I threw the gauntlet down to challenge you.  WTF?   If anything, my comments were self depreciating

My comments were not mean, nasty, challenging or derogatory towards you in any way Kuna.  Please respond in kind.   Lighten up Dude!
KenC

[AnastassiaAsh]

Great thread!  Has anyone ever read Gary Chapman's The 5 Love Languages? 

Of course, it is very good. We discuss it here too as well as other awesome books: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=4468.0

[SANDRO43]

REMINDER
There a Books Review section (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?ind=reviews&op=section_view&idev=7#), languishing with just 3 reviews (last in August 2007) here, where your opinions on books can be recorded for posterity .

[55North]

I heartily agree with your approach Kuna, that being the logical 'game plan' employed on my 2nd FSU courtship (my first, with Fiancee visa, having never, in retrospect, reached true love, and had other issues).
 
For 5 months, I played the websites, came home from work to 50+ emails in my inbox, corresponded, nearly weakened on some of your points out of loneliness, but kept at it until, like you, I met an Alla.......
 
In just 3 weeks after contact, I was there in a god-forsaken regional airport baggage reclaim being loudly embraced, even as I wondered how she managed to access the room, and noticing that everyone else was 'looking' (me, logical and retentive to the last).  We went directly from the airport to a cottage she had obtained for us and, well, that was that.  That was in the summer.  We repeated Christmas/New Year.  We marry in April, in Kislovodsk.
 
I've gone through your list again (I guess I already knew it), and not a single dropped mark.  We are 'of an age', and ready now, and raring to go, so why not? 
 
Incidentally, this relationship has been effectively without emails, and entirely phone orientated (twice daily).  Did it help?  Quite probably.
 
Nick

[BillyB]

Wearing my heart on my sleeve and letting emotions make the decisions for me have gotten me into relationships I shouldn't have been in. Using my head and logic first will get me better women that I can then open up my emotions to then develop a meaningful relationship. I respect women who don't open up and throw themselves at me without first understanding who I really am and deserving of their affection. I'm not too impressed with women who always get involved with and devoted themselves to bad guys. I would hope they used logic first in picking a partner.

[Phil dAmore]

Okay, time to trot this chestnut out again:

If you can be comfortable in a room together without saying anything; if you can communicate with just a look or an expression; if there is no need for constant chatter, then you have indeed found the perfect woman.

[KenC]

The debates of logic vs. emotional attachment are pretty much the same as: what came first, the chicken or the egg?  The truth is is that you need both to have a long term successful marriage.  I do see a difference of opinion here based mostly on the methodology used in the pursuit.

We have more than a few old school members here in long term successful marriages that met their soulmates through happenstance or luck without any real preplanning as to how to find the right woman.  Guys like Jet, jb, BC and myself some how came across their wives without any logical plan to meet them.  Surely every one of the examples examined the logic involved in their relationships at one point or another, logic just was not the driving force in the beginning of these relationships.  Many were just "boy meets girl" stories that all had a happy ending.  None of these relationships are 100% emotional and 0% logic nor did they ignore their built in criteria that we all have for selecting a mate.  But in each of these cases it was the particular woman that was the motivation behind the marriage and not the necessity to be married.

Then we seem to have the other faction of new couples where the men had a strategic battle plan drawn up in their quest to find a mate.  These men used a logical methodology to find a woman to match their criteria for the perfect spouse.  Maybe they sent out hundreds of letters as it is logical that playing the numbers game and throwing out a wide net would result in the best catch possible.  Maybe some of them traveled to many different countries meeting woman after woman to see first hand how they matched up with their criteria.  I would guess that these men hoped to find a spark of emotional attachment after the woman meets the selected criteria.  This approach is VERY logical and yet seems almost clinical to my taste.  But I guess it makes sense for those who are most interested in fullfilling a wife vacancy.  I really do not mean that as a put down in any way either.  It is just that these men are motivated to find a woman to marry.  It will be interesting if this logical approach is successful or not as most men that fall into this category are either not yet married or newlywed.  I guess time will tell all.  In a way, it is a science project, I guess.
KenC

[55North]

I think you're spot on Ken.  Whilst I have lived my life, in Britain, mostly to your 'Plan A' (which included a short 1st marriage, and more co-habitations than is probably descent), I have played more of a 'Plan B' due to advancing age and loneliness, if you like, a sense of it all being nearly too late, and letting myself morph into 'lonely old Mr.  **** at No. 27'.
 
I should add that my 3 years of traipsing around the FSU have forced me to consider seriously my future financial options.
 
Phil, I agree.


Nick

[Gator]

Jet recently had a thread with a clip of a spinning woman.  The direction she spun demonstrated how a person thinks, left-brain or right-brain.

Similarly, the manner in which a man makes a decision can be divided into three groups:

Intuitive – in shopping for a new suit, an intuitive man will buy the first suit that he really likes without caring about whether another store may have a better one.

Analytical – he will go to multiple stores, study the fabric, compare prices, etc. and return to buy the best suit of all he has seen (if somebody else did not buy it after he first tried it own).

Balanced – functions both ways, yet not necessarily every decision.

Successful businessmen are found in all three groups.

Although all of us put our trousers on one leg at a time, the manner in how we decide something can differ.  When we make decisions in a way that is unlike our nature, we probably make more mistakes.

Kuna wrote about me,
Your overuse of logic forced to you turn away your fiance originally (from memory)...  I'm glad you finally applied emotion    

His recall of my history is accurate, except the decision to break up and later reconnect was each time based on a combination of both logic and emotion.  The sequence:

Our breakup - emotion first, then logic to confirm the decision. 

Our reconnection - logic to try again, then emotion to make it permanent.

I probably did overanalyze, yet people like me who are not "black and white" see much fuzzy grey and we need to think it through amid the emotions.  This made me a lesss than average officer in the Army - I recall the "Lieutenant, do something!" 

Most of the time life ain't that complicated or that important.  But in choosing a life partner, it is, it most certainly is.

[BillyB]

Guys like Jet, jb, BC and myself some how came across their wives without any logical plan to meet them.   Many were just "boy meets girl" stories that all had a happy ending. 

Aren't we all trying to fill a wife vacancy here? None of the guys you mentioned admitted they went to the FSU for a part time gf, sex tour or wanting to be single forever.

Lots of people will admit that the time they found their spouse is the time they weren't looking for one and/or swore they would remain single forever. I don't buy that. We're always looking and we always had some sort of plan to get married with a person that meets our criteria otherwise we'd turn everyone away no matter how great a person they are and truly remain single. When boy meets girl, we should be analyzing who we're dealing with otherwise it'll be no different than falling in love with a stranger/photo and fantasizing that everything will end happily ever after. Tried that in my younger days and it can end in disaster.

If you can be comfortable in a room together without saying anything; if you can communicate with just a look or an expression; if there is no need for constant chatter, then you have indeed found the perfect woman.

If that's true, then I found the perfect woman. One thing she likes about me too is that I don't run my mouth a lot and when I speak, she likes what she hears.

[KenC]

Aren't we all trying to fill a wife vacancy here?

No that is not true.  I cannot speak for the others mentioned in my post, but marriage was the farthest thing from my mind. 
 

None of the guys you mentioned admitted they went to the FSU for a part time gf, sex tour or wanting to be single forever.

There are many other reasons for the meetings that you are not considering here.  It is my understanding that BC and jb met their wives through the normal course of their businesses over seas.  I know jb was working in Russia, and IIRC BC met his wife in a country other than Russia.  They were far from being on a wife hunt.  Jet and I went to meet one specific woman.  Again, I won't speak for him, but if you knew my whole story you would know that I took quite some time to wrap my brain around the idea of marrying Lena.  It was never ever a primary motivation as was with your quest (for example).

Lots of people will admit that the time they found their spouse is the time they weren't looking for one and/or swore they would remain single forever. I don't buy that.

That is fine Billy.  You can choose not to believe me or the others.  It is your prerogative.

We're always looking and we always had some sort of plan to get married with a person that meets our criteria otherwise we'd turn everyone away no matter how great a person they are and truly remain single.

Again, I will not speak for the others, but I was enjoying a very fulfilling life as a bachelor and I disagree with you on this point.

When boy meets girl, we should be analyzing who we're dealing with otherwise it'll be no different than falling in love with a stranger/photo and fantasizing that everything will end happily ever after. Tried that in my younger days and it can end in disaster.

I agree with this.  Some time ago Gator made the point that we all have our criteria planted in our brains no matter how buried the thoughts may be and I agree with that thinking.  Billy, it all goes back to what your primary motivation were at the time.  You and Kuna were out to find women to marry.  Nothing the least bit wrong with that IMO.  You had your criteria for what you wanted in a wife and a plan on how to sort through the women in the fsu in order to find the right one.  Great!  Others did not do it that way.  Some of us met wonderful women and only later after falling in love (and admitidly fulfilling our subconscious criteria) decided to marry.  Marriage was not the primary motivation at all but the end result of a loving relationship developed without any real plan of finding a wife.

Like I said it will be interesting to see how things turn out long term for the guys that had a formalized plan to find wives.  I hope it works as well as doing it the "other" way.
KenC

[DKMM]

Hi guys, I'm back on a lazy Sunday morning. 

Good to see the old guard still dispensing their wisdom.  I wish I had that kind of time, but maybe someday when I become a OMB heh!

1st of all, I have to agree with BillyB's position on the wife vacancy thing.  Its just silly to pretend that isn't the goal of anybody on here in the search phase.  I can live just fine without marriage but I want what I want so that brings me to the FSU.

So, as to the point of this thread, everybody obviously has their own understanding of how to select a life partner.  Basically finding one from FSU takes a different approach than you would use at home in the following ways:

1) Your "in person time" is compressed
2) The mix of cultures/languages brings significant difficulties in understanding (some call it communication)

That's it, everything else is/was the same for me when dating local women.

[KenC]

Hi guys, I'm back on a lazy Sunday morning. 

Good to see the old guard still dispensing their wisdom.  I wish I had that kind of time, but maybe someday when I become a OMB heh!

1st of all, I have to agree with BillyB's position on the wife vacancy thing.  Its just silly to pretend that isn't the goal of anybody on here in the search phase.   I can live just fine without marriage but I want what I want so that brings me to the FSU.

So, as to the point of this thread, everybody obviously has their own understanding of how to select a life partner.  Basically finding one from FSU takes a different approach than you would use at home in the following ways:

1) Your "in person time" is compressed
2) The mix of cultures/languages brings significant difficulties in understanding (some call it communication)

That's it, everything else is/was the same for me when dating local women.

DKMM,
A couple of things you may want to consider is that many (all?) of the guys I mentioned as not being motivated to be married really did not search for a wife, we just kind of found women that we fell in love with and eventually did marry.  And another thing is that most (all?) were previously married and most had children from that previous marriage.  So the driving force to procreate wasn't there.  Just some additional thoughts you may not have considered.  Hope all is well for you.
KenC

[myrddin]

I could just be ornery but I have to say that I think it may be a mistake to define success as simply marrying ... someone.  We can learn something from Ken and other OMBs as far as not focusing on that goal like a laser beam, but some of us are starting from a different place. 

I've said before that I'm not looking to just fill a "wife vacancy".  Maybe I'm tricking myself and it's largely a matter of semantics, but that seems like interviewing job applicants... 

I agree with DKMM that the basics are the same anywhere in there world.  I have simply expanded my search for a soulmate to include a large part of the world that has always fascinated me and that happens to count many beautiful, intelligent, family-oriented women among its population.  Finding her is what I want, but you can't approach it like a business goal.

It's more like playing the lottery, though hopefully with slightly better odds!   You can't go in *expecting* to win, but you have to open yourself to the possibility (for the lottery that means buying a ticket, for this pursuit it means looking on websites).

The only thing worse than not finding her is not looking.

[DKMM]

KenC,

I agree that my situation and thus approach are different than a lot of you.  While it would be nice to wander around Russia some more in hopes of stumbling across a life partner, I will instead apply some effort to find someone for me.  Its easy once I get there, they fall over themselves trying to lure me in.  That means I have to be more slow and deliberate in my actions and avoid the kid in the candy store mentality.

mryddin,

In the very begginning though it can be just like that, interviewing girls.  The thing is, when there is a lot of choices you need to narrow down who you are looking for and that means evaluating people.  It may seem petty but its true.

We go there because we can find better women there than in the West.  Its that simple fact (described in different ways) behind the large majority of men who go down this path.  Its the same reason the ladies there are looking at foreign men (again described in different ways).  However, it does NOT mean you will necessarily find a better woman.  You might think you have but once you realize her behavior towards you isn't what you were hoping it was, things can change rapidly.

I'm absolutly going in expecting to win.  I always keep my eye on the prize and if I don't find her, no big deal I'll try again in a few months.

[myrddin]

mryddin,

In the very begginning though it can be just like that, interviewing girls.  The thing is, when there is a lot of choices you need to narrow down who you are looking for and that means evaluating people.  It may seem petty but its true.

Doesn't seem petty, evaluating is crucial.  The difference to me is between choosing the best candidate at the moment (as with a job, which is what I think of when people mention "filling a wife vacancy") and finding a good match as a life partner (she may simply not be there at the moment).

I'm absolutly going in expecting to win.  I always keep my eye on the prize and if I don't find her, no big deal I'll try again in a few months.

We may be describing the same thing in different ways.  It's a subtle difference in approach, one that I've noticed in the more successful endeavors in my own life.  It's certainly not "not caring" or forgetting about what you're looking for, but there is some sort of Zen thing going on.

In any case, I think there are several useful tools in this thread for deciding if she is the one.

[KenC]

Myriddin & DKMM,
Both of you guys seem to have a good grip on the situation at hand.  There are things that you must do in the "search phase" of this process that are less than perfect in an ideal world.  Throwing out the widest "net" possible, interviewing women and eliminating those that do not measure up to your criteria all sound very cold and calculating.  And they are.  But also a necessity at your stage of the game.  Just remember that the "best possible candidate" does not necessarily mean the woman is "the one" for you.  I am not so naive to think that a man can only fall in love with one particular woman, but I do suggest you two hold out for love.  Once you identify the logical choices, make sure you have the emotional bonding necessary to maintain a relationsip forever.  If you read between the lines here at RWD, the truly GREAT relationships are the ones with a GREAT love involved.  Something to think about!
KenC

[BillyB]

I've said before that I'm not looking to just fill a "wife vacancy".  looking on websites).

The only thing worse than not finding her is not looking.

Unless we have no hormones and no sex drive, we are always looking for a full time partner. Humans are geared to partner up. It doesn't matter if you're looking for a soul mate, lifelong partner or wife, it's basically the same thing no matter what you call it. I don't know why searching for a wife is a bad word now? Either a guy is desperate or not but searching for a "wife" is not a bad thing.

When guys in this forum spend thousands of dollars to go to the FSU, they are open to finding a wife. Their eyes and ears are open to finding a life partner. Nobody goes there to engage in a long distance relationship forever. You're either a sex tourist or looking for serious relations or both. Even the infamous Pike would be open to marriage although mind blowing sex is high on his list of requirements before he marries any woman.

[Jazzyclassy]

I just want to say that DKMM should be successful in his following trip , at least I hope so and he really needs to learn more about russian women's way of thinking and why they act in this or that way with his own experience. He is a young lad of course, but in my opinion he already should be fine  without those "Russian women for dummies" books as it seems really a little ridiculous, if he makes mistakes, let it be his own ones, it is ok if there are a lot of mistakes, that will make him learn eventually, cos he could not learn the other way for example.

[KenC]

Unless we have no hormones and no sex drive, we are always looking for a full time partner. Humans are geared to partner up. It doesn't matter if you're looking for a soul mate, lifelong partner or wife, it's basically the same thing no matter what you call it. I don't know why searching for a wife is a bad word now? Either a guy is desperate or not but searching for a "wife" is not a bad thing.

When guys in this forum spend thousands of dollars to go to the FSU, they are open to finding a wife. Their eyes and ears are open to finding a life partner. Nobody goes there to engage in a long distance relationship forever. You're either a sex tourist or looking for serious relations or both. Even the infamous Pike would be open to marriage although mind blowing sex is high on his list of requirements before he marries any woman.

Billy,
No one said searching for a wife was a bad thing.  You seem incapable of acknowledging the fact that there were other reasons for meeting women in Russia other than for marriage or sex.  Believe it or not, not everyone wants to be married.  I know my mind set back in 98 was against ever marrying again and there was nothing wrong with my hormones either.

You set out to find a wife, others found a woman, fell in love and only then decided to marry without any prior planning to do so.  Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

  You searched the fsu for the best candidate to marry hoping that love would develop after you met.  In the case of the men I used as examples, love was the driving force of marriage, while in your case marriage is the driving force to find love IMO.  Hey, all the agencies have based their business on your way of thinking, not mine. Most men here are hoping your way works too because they tend to use a similar methodology.  I just could never do it your way personally because I think finding a "great love" is a very rare circumstance and cannot be planned for.
KenC

[HiTech]

Kenc:Wrote

My life has settled into a very nice groove since my divorce.  I had dated a large number of AW and was never short on female companionship.  Most of the women I dated I had met via the Internet.  I was never one to troll the bars or pick up women in public, but I really was very comfortable in meeting women from the Net.  I had learned my Internet dating lessons well too.  I learned that no matter how sweet the talk via email or even phone, there is just no substitution for the face to face meetings.  This lesson had been learned the hard way too.  I had more than one experience where the talk had gone on too long and got too serious only to climax with a very uncomfortable first face to face meeting.  I now knew that one’s fantasies can be a powerfully misleading emotion.  No amount of talking can replace the first 10 seconds of meeting.  The more my dating skills developed, the less time I spent talking or writing and the sooner I pushed to meet the women in person.  It seemed as though no matter how much you thought you knew each other, the first meeting would still be a type of blind date.

Why exactly were you emailing and meeting women?

I know my mind set back in 98 was against ever marrying again and there was nothing wrong with my hormones either.

I would never marry again unless it was perfect.

Which is it, not marrying again, or only making sure you only marry if it is perfect?

What exactly is that other reason you went to the FSU for after you had spoken with some women? If not sex, and if not to see if love and a relationship could develop? Why did you email and meet some ladies?

[KenC]

Kenc:Wrote
Why exactly were you emailing and meeting women?

This reference was regarding AW that I met via the Net.  For female companionship would be the answer.  I dated many AW during that time period.

Which is it, not marrying again, or only making sure you only marry if it is perfect?

I was not really interested in marrying again and would only consider it if everything was perfect.  Assuming that perfection was unattainable, I was resigned to a life of bachelorhood.  Falling in love with Lena changed my mind in the end.

What exactly is that other reason you went to the FSU for after you had spoken with some women?

Let me correct you here.  I had only spoken to Lena.

If not sex, and if not to see if love and a relationship could develop? Why did you email and meet some ladies?

Gee, I thought I covered this rather well in my trip report.  I became fascinated with Lena and just wanted to meet the woman that had captured my attention through our many phone conversations.  I was also very clear in explaining that I was not on a booty run of any kind.  My interest in going to Russia was also a factor as I explained, but mostly it was my curiosity to meet Lena.  The whole thing was rather impulsive at the time.  Is there anything else you would like me to clarify?
KenC

[BillyB]

You seem incapable of acknowledging the fact that there were other reasons for meeting women in Russia other than for marriage or sex.  Believe it or not, not everyone wants to be married.  I know my mind set back in 98 was against ever marrying again and there was nothing wrong with my hormones either.

What's the difference between a man who goes to the FSU for love or marriage? They should go hand in hand. Now if a guy spends thousands of dollars to go to the FSU JUST to find love without marriage, all he will have is a long distance relationship with a part time booty call. Nobody wants a part time booty call unless he's a sex tourist that never had any serious intentions to begin with. We engage RW because we want to be with them and since girlfriend visas are not available, we must go into this adventure with marriage on our mind since it has to happen eventually.

Since I work in construction, I've heard so many times guys say they will never marry again yet they do. Those that actually mean what they say rarely tell the women they date their thoughts on marriage otherwise it decreases their chance on getting women in the sack. If guys told RW they will never marry again, they will have little or no RW to choose from.

What are the other "sincere" reasons for meeting women in Russia for some sort of relationship that doesn't end in marriage?

[KenC]

What's the difference between a man who goes to the FSU for love or marriage

I know you are trying to paraphrase what I wrote, but it is not quite accurate.  What is the difference between a man trying to fill a wife vacancy and a guy going to meet a woman that caught his interest?  HUGE IMO.  Lena and I develped a friendship and a sincere interest in each other long before there was any romantic developments.  When those romantic feelings did arise, it led to a loving relationship than culminated in our marriage.

A man going to the fsu with a check list of criteria and a long list of possible women to fulfill his need to be married seems unnatural and forced IMO.  Backing into love also seems rather strange to me.  Like I said before, I know I am in the minority here but it is just how I feel about the subject.  I could never do the whole specified battle plan method as you did.  Love comes first in my book not second.

They should go hand in hand.

I agree but just not with the order you propose here.

Now if a guy spends thousands of dollars to go to the FSU JUST to find love without marriage, all he will have is a long distance relationship with a part time booty call. Nobody wants a part time booty call unless he's a sex tourist that never had any serious intentions to begin with.

As I already stated, even "love" was not a primary motivation for me, but a development from my impulsive trip.

We engage RW because we want to be with them and since girlfriend visas are not available, we must go into this adventure with marriage on our mind since it has to happen eventually.

That is not entirely true, but the usual course of action, I do admit.  Even when Lena arrived here there was no offer of marriage on the table from me.

Since I work in construction, I've heard so many times guys say they will never marry again yet they do. Those that actually mean what they say rarely tell the women they date their thoughts on marriage otherwise it decreases their chance on getting women in the sack.

I was brutally honest with the AW I dated.  (Imagine that?)  I told them up front that I had no intentions of getting married again, but if they wanted to hang out and enjoy some time with me, fine.  I had no trouble finding candidates for this role.  I know many of them thought they could change my mind, but they didn't.

If guys told RW they will never marry again, they will have little or no RW to choose from.

Here is where yet another difference between us arises.  I was not looking for choices.  I went to meet Lena.  In my trip report I covered how I felt bad to have misled some of the other women I met at which time I quit meeting them altogether.

What are the other "sincere" reasons for meeting women in Russia for some sort of relationship that doesn't end in marriage?

To meet a wonderful woman that I had come to know and admire from our phone conversations.  And I was very sincere about it too.
KenC

[AnastassiaAsh]

KenC, your view and way of doing this is really strange at times. You found your true love again and even though you didn't want to marry again, you still did. Of course I understand the pains of divorce, but that in itself still I think shouldn't really make you hate ‘marriage’. It was just a wrong person. When the right person came along (Lena) you did it. You are saying “even "love" was not a primary motivation for me, but a development from my impulsive trip”. I understand that, but you went to visit Lena because she interested you as a person. You felt drawn to her with a possibility of a romantic relationship, you went to find out.

Actually all the things you are describing in your TR and here seem the same as lots of men will do, but just for some reason you ‘name’ things differently. You had said you would have never married again, but you still did. Ok, love didn't develop at once, but developed later (which is hard to believe with Lena being just a doll), any way it doesn't really matter when. It is hard to say what develops when.

And it is hard to guess what exactly you mean by ‘romantic developments’. For example I was attracted to both of my husbands at the very beginning, and they to me. We liked each other and we did talk romantic things, but maybe just 20%, and the rest was just trying to understand each other and figure out who we were. We were not physical till the very marriage (that's the Christian rules you know  ), but it doesn't mean we were not romantically involved.

Also I was searching for a man to marry, not to have fun, play with and spend time with or just see what will happen. For me the most important and the very starting point was a man who wants to get married, who wants to find a wife, who is sure he would want to be married again and that is his only goal in this. I indicated that openly in my profile and was searching for the profiles with the same word ‘marriage’. Call it void, vacancy or any other word, it was that. I know how you always say a man should be happy first just by himself and then it is ok to invite somebody into his life. (maybe it was somebody else who said that?) But I will never ever understand that. And maybe it is more of a man’s thinking that a woman's although my husbands are exceptions then. I was fine with everything else other than being alone, I felt I wanted to find that man since my kindergarten years and I wanted to be married to the only man forever. I felt unhappy and miserable, years wasted and senseless. I see absolutely no happiness or reason in living by yourself without sharing your life and all the wonderful things that it brings with a man I love. The same way I think a husband and wife must have at least one child (except medical conditions of course), because again why live for themselves only when the logical culmination of true love should be having a child?

I feel really strange when a woman says: well, I will go there and I will have 90 days to check things out, him, life there. I personally would never be able to do that and would never do that. More over I just do not need that. What is there to check? I am not marrying a city or a house, I am marrying a person, and I am giving my vows to a person and God, nothing or nobody else. And I or we need to do this before I go anywhere, before I move. Now I feel like I am minority here. If a man needs more time to think about me, let it be, of course, I am not against this, but he will just have to travel a little more to where I live and decide for himself a little later. And even then my approximate time frame was 3-5 months. If there is no proposal after that then there will never be. I don't have time to loose and stretch it for years and tens of trips. Our communication is dense and happens often enough to understand me and make a decision. If a man doesn't see me and who I am, then he is either dumb or I am just too good for him. I need neither of those. I need a man who is like me, who will see the same values in me as his own, who will have no doubt at once that I am THE ONE, who will realize at once that he will never be able to find anyone better and who will genuinely cherish me to his last days. I need my man to be decisive and know exactly what he wants, the same way I do.

KenC, I understand you were not looking for choices, you already made a choice to learn more about just Lena. And that's right, this is how we felt too. And it just all ended happily ever after.

By the way, I wonder - when did you actually propose? Sorry, I am so impatient.