Agencies are bad news

[itstime]

I happen to think that all these marriage agencies are just a distraction in the process of finding a foreign wife. Nowadays there are enough Internet dating sites around that marriage agencies with their rigid policies and high prices are not needed any more.

I met my girlfriend last year through http://www.freepersonals.ru and the woman that I will meet in Kiev weeka after next, I found on http://www.luckylovers.net. I wrote to a few women from http://www.personals.ru and got some good replies and possibilities there just from the free listings. Another similar site that I haven't tried is http://www.eecl.org 

There are probably others and then there are the local Russian dating sites, either the big ones like at Rambler and mail.ru or smaller local ones that are part of an Internet portal for a single city like Volgograd or Ekaterinburg. Of course, you need patient work with a translator (or some Russian ability) to use those, but a lot of women on those sites do point out in their profile which foreign languages they speak.

If you go my route and avoid the marriage agencies, then you will have fewer problems with scammers. When you have to rely on yourself and your own intuition then it is easy to sniff out a scammer.

Note that I do use in-country agencies to help with apartment rental, hotel bookings, taxi to and from airport, buying local transport tickets like a short haul in-country flight or the train. Most guys would also use interpreter services too. Personally, I am happier dealing with people who are NOT in the marriage agency business when I buy these other services. Package deals frighten the bejeezus out of me. I do NOT want to be a controlled customer. I want choices and alternatives.

Most western-owned agencies are run by mad control-freaks anyway.

I'm sick of the damned agency arseholes who puke all over the message boards!

 

[RacerX]

Actually there is a way, but it's not for the faint of $$$$.

There are a few RW who willl find, advise ,and help you throughout  the process. Doing it on you own is sheer suicide.

[Turboguy]

Just for the record I have tried the www.eecl.org site that you mentioned in your post but had not tried.   I had good luck with it.   I have not tried the freepersonals one but have heard good things about it.

Personally I think we all are different in our needs our capabilities.   For some those sites are perfect for others an agency might be best.   For someone else a tour may be just the ticket and for others just going to the cities and walking around talking to people may work.   What works for me might be totally wrong for you and vice versa.

[Kevin]

Another posters, with no email address or name.  How can I take any of your comments serious if you are hiding from the list?

You have a girlfriend so you say. But you are not married yet?  So your advice is you can find a girlfriend though the free address listing sites.  I would agree with this. The free sites are full of ladies looking for boyfriends.

Since you are anti-agency and haven't found a wife and you hate Western owned agency (Me) you seem to be lacking any credibility. If you haven't used an agency (western/local) how can you judge them?  

Instead of saying all agencies are bad. You should had started this post by saying.

Hey guys,
If you are looking for a girlfriend try the free sites. I did and found my girlfriend.  Just had to be careful to avoid the scammers by using my intuition. Plus you need to hire an Interpretor. (plug for independent interpretors)

Sorry about the responce, I just tired of these #@#@ ghost who puke all over the message boards about how marriage agencies are so bad when I spend so much of my time helping others find wife's. True I'm not in the girlfriend business so I would refer those guys to the free sites.:

[BC]

So if I get the jist of it agencies were thrown out of other boards and are looking for a new 'home' to lodge their gripes and complaints against each other.. Yeah 'duke it out' here.

I'm sure that will add a lot to RWD, but wonder how much value.. Why not set up a RWAgency forum somewhere for these concerns, or has RWD been selected as a viable 'host'?.. yeah I know.. an audience is needed.

Antibiotics anyone?

[itstime]

Corncrowe,

Leave Kevin alone. He is an agency owner so his policies are up there in black and white on his site. Nothing that he says can change that.

Prices and Services available:
Address available: Yes (20.00$)
Phone number available: No
Accepts letters: Yes (7.00$)
Accepts gifts: Yes
Available for meetings: Yes
Available for chat: Yes (20.00$)
Available for interview: Yes (20.00$)


Is this dating??? Or is this some business charging what the market will bear? You decide.

I have looked at dozens of agency sites over the past year and a half and I just don't like what I see there. I'm well aware of the spats over on RWG because I read that and G7 and RMP and various other stuff that I found with Google.

Kevin hit the nail on the head with what he said about looking for a girlfriend. Yes, I am only looking for a girlfriend through the Internet. I'm not looking to buy a wife or a mail order bride. But given that my intention is marriage and I only contact women whose intention is marriage, I expect that it won't take too many girlfriends before I do find a wife. But the process of going from girlfriend to wife is something that I will deal with in person without the help of anybody else. Last year, my girlfriend got cold feet and I realized that it wasn't going to work out. No way to figure that sort of thing out in advance. People are people.

When I saw that guy posting about how great agencies are, I figured it would be a good idea to show the other side too.

That aqua color works real good for cussing someone out, don't you think?

 

[Bruno]

So if I get the jist of it agencies were thrown out of other boards and are looking for a new 'home' to lodge their gripes and complaints against each other.. Yeah 'duke it out' here.

I'm sure that will add a lot to RWD, but wonder how much value.. Why not set up a RWAgency forum somewhere for these concerns, or has RWD been selected as a viable 'host'?.. yeah I know.. an audience is needed.

Antibiotics anyone?

I have the same fear that you... agency can be welcome here until they bring something to the members... until now, it is not really the case...

Very few time, agency owner like Kevin, Mark, Igor have make post in reply to some general question to members... they are more busy to promote own agency of make a fight against other...

About Jack, he have already reply to several post of general interest but he seem to be fixed on the promotional part of his own service... happily, it is not always the case...

And finaly, about me... yep, the case is other... i am myself searching a soulmate, friend, lover, wife... and in option, agency owner :cool: ... i have just check now... i am the top 1 of poster ... maybe i need calm down a little my frequency of post ...

In other topic, Jack say that agency owner have knowlegde and can share it with everybody... until now, i don't see a lot of this... they reply only in the interest of own agency... make post on forum ask time, time is money... so, they will not reply to simple question from members of RWD if they cannot lock some new customer...

BC, why do you ask antibiotic ? ... if agency are like bacterie, it can work.... but if they are like virus, only preventif vaccin can help... of maybe you ask aspirine for the headcache


EDIT : since it seem to need show real identity for prove that you have some value in your comment, i publish here my information... i have never fear to show who i am, i have nothing to hide... So, specialy for Kevin (Real Person, Real name) :? ... i show what is a real person :

International passport :

 

National passport :



You can read my address on the national passport... My phone number is  +32 484 720 337...

Kevin, so, it is a evidence that i am a real person... no one owner make it... Why ??? What they fear !!!

And about lady, find one site who show that lady are real... several say that lady are real but where are the evidence, the customer need to believe the words from the owner of agency... take example on me... women and men are not afraid to show identity when i explain then that this allow the build of relation based on trust and not on the fear to be scammed... some example :



http://www.love-from-russia.be/woman/0001294.htm



http://www.love-from-russia.be/woman/0001098.htm



http://www.love-from-russia.be/woman/0001048.htm



http://www.love-from-russia.be/woman/0000803.htm
Yep, i make publicity for these women who was not afraid to show who they are in reality... in the hope to find a good husband and start a relation based on trust, not on doubt... yes, the tools needed to build a trust relation exist but until agency owner don't wish use it, nothing go change... and why they don't use it ??? For protect the scammer who allow then to earn a lot of money...

[BC]

"in the hope to find a good husband and start a relation based on trust, not on doubt... "

wow.. what a concept..

and yes.. I was wrong.. parasites are usually kept in check using poison... not antibiotics.

Casper

[Bruno]

"in the hope to find a good husband and start a relation based on trust, not on doubt... "

wow.. what a concept..

BC, i apply these concept in my actual quest... previously, the problem of scammer was not so big... but now, it is the hell...

So, in my introduction letter, i join a copy of my both passport and from my divorce act... i explain that i will not start a relation based on suspicious meaning since the internet is full of scammer... so, i prove to the woman that i am real and i ask the same to woman, i ask a copy of national or international passport... usualy, women reply positively because i have make the first step... and this spare me of the fat Yuri... only one type of scammer can stay, the visa whore or gold finder... i am not candidat to the second type since that i explain in my introduction letter that i am not rich, only a simple gardener, ... and i forget, i check the IP from the first e-mail a lady send to me...

One time these control make, we can speak more openly about our relation without fear to be scammed...

And i apply the same method for my site...  i don't obligate woman to send a copy of document but i recommend it... and some make it... until now, only one have try to send a false passport... and it is the only one woman i have list in black list... and i have send the copy of passport to the foreign office in moscow... it was the passport of a man

One of these day, i go start a new topic over the IP control from e-mail... this can help several man... recently, i have receive a ads from a woman who say to be from Latvia... the IP used was from Belgium :X...

Seriously, why it is need to hide your information to your future partner... and what people fear !!! A scammer can make nothing with your information... a honest woman can phone you or send your post card... :D:D ... of course some special case exist... usualy, american customer ask me to hide social security nummer... it seem that bad guys in USA can use these nummer for make problem... but this is not a real problem since i have see the original before blur the number...

BC, your "wow" is not needed... how a men can build a friendship or love relation with someone when he always think that the woman can be a scammer... this is something that i cannot understandt... if i have doubt, i am not able to build something strong, so i choice directly to stop... it is now, before the meeting that i am able to make the choice... after meeting, the lust effect is working and don't allow my mind to think correctly... remember my last trip, it was sign of problem before the second meeting but i was not able to see them...

 

[Kevin]

BC

I never doughted that you are real. You've proved that in the past.  My agency also has the same policy on ladies passports to show that they are real. I have copies of every lady who joins our agency and can provide these to our clients if requested. Plus we have the free video chat on the weekends with the ladies.

A point has been made that agency owners should be posted more answers then comments. Most of the time I am contacted off site with the questions instead of seeing the questions asked on the list.  This is common for most of the legit agency owners on this list. We will be glad to help. Just ask the questions.

I will also start posting some of my old letters to the groups for the newbies. After a few years I tend to forget about the basic questions.

Thanks

Kevin Hayes
Agency owner
Khersongirls.com

[BC]

A point has been made that agency owners should be posted more answers then comments. Most of the time I am contacted off site with the questions instead of seeing the questions asked on the list.  This is common for most of the legit agency owners on this list. We will be glad to help. Just ask the questions.

Yeah Kevin, I think most here are a bit wary of agency owner initiated threads.. constructive participation and chipping in your views on the other hand would likely be welcomed and respected.

In the end you will receive a lot more by giving than taking.. It's not like we are talking trade secrets here.

Cheers

btw identifying yourself as an agency owner in your posts is good and keeps things 'above board'. I like that.

[Photo Guy]

Agencies are bad news? That's a blanket statement. Some are good - some are bad. I found 'L' at a large agency, so that agency made it all possible for me. Using an agency is not essential, but it obviously can yield good results.

The big agencies make the mistake of over-charging for some services. They also make the mistake of trying to control some of the exchanged email content.

a large agency's phone call reservation:
'Our interpreter takes your billing information and run a refundable deposit charge $28.75 (minimum 5 minutes calling time; just $5.75 per minute), which will be immediately refunded if the call does not go through.'

...'...just $5.75 per minute..' !!!!!
Okay, I think they are providing a valuable service, but the fee is not sensible, in my opinion. A 30 minute phone call with an interpreter, works out to just ...$172.50!

I placed my first call to 'L' in January. It was only a 15   minute call because I realized the cost was insane.

Soon after, I worked on a solution and came up with the idea of finding a local RW interpreter in my home town. That would result in no phone charge for connecting to the interpreter. I offered to pay $20 per 30 minutes and it was accepted by the interpreter. Next, I discovered a fairly cheap way to call Ukraine using a phone card. $0.15 per minute. Then I investigated the cost of setting up a three-way phone call. Quest charges $0.75 for the entire connection - using the 'flash' button on my phone. (most have these) Bottom line: a 30 minute phone call NOW cost me just $25.25! ..Instead of the agency's $172.50.

Flower delivery - 5 roses would cost $85 at a big agency.
Another flower delivery website charges $48 for 5 roses.

Those are huge differences, -especially the phone/interpretation services.

Here's my point: Agencies, especially the big agencies, should seriously consider restructuring their pricing policies. The current pricing creates the impression that they are severely over-charging and taking advantage of their clients. Yes, They do make it easy to setup a phone call -interpretation session. So, like a convenience store, higher prices would be expected, but their prices are so high that it appears unethical and tacky. If they lowered their rates, I believe they would attract more clients and that would increase profits.

I use the agency for emails/translation. At $7 per email, it is worth it for me. I checked locally for translation services and $20 was the typical charge. The $7 is a sensible charge, although I DO NOT KNOW how good the translation is. If she had good English skills or if I spoke Russian, this wouldn't be a concern.

In summary, I'd conclude that the big agencies can bring two people together, but once a guy finds an appropriate match or someone you want to continue communicating with, I'd advise an independent approach because many of the big agency's fees are way too high. Make your own arrangements in regard to communicating and meeting her. Find your own terp, your own flat, etc. Be independent. Work with individuals you can trust, including the smaller agencies.

[Bruno]

Are you EVER going to just read a thread and shut the hell up? These looong, booooring threads og yours are starting to irritate me. A lot.

If you stop quote them fully without reason, they will take only the half of the place on the topic...

Of course, don't need a long post for critic my own post... bad word without any explanation don't need a lot of place...

And since the main topic was about agency, why i cannot reply !!! If you don't like my post, don't read them... it is so simple... maybe to much difficult to "Seekand find" for a little brain :D:D

 

[Seekandfind]

Are you EVER going to just read a thread and shut the hell up? These looong, booooring threads og yours are starting to irritate me. A lot.

If you stop quote them fully without reason, they will take only the half of the place on the topic...

Of course, don't need a long post for critic my own post... bad word without any explanation don't need a lot of place...

And since the main topic was about agency, why i cannot reply !!! If you don't like my post, don't read them... it is so simple... maybe to much difficult to "Seekand find" for a little brain :D:D

 
[/quote]zzzzz......

[Rvrwind]

To label all agencies as bad is just plain rude & shows your lack of intelligence in the whole process & your lack of knowledge in what a real honest agency can do for you & your prospective mate.

To top it off if it wasn't for the fools who continue to use bad agencies & keep sending them money or not reporting them when they do get scammed, there wouldn't be any dishonest agencies. The marketplace would force them to be honest or go broke. So you my friend made them what they are, be proud & hold your head high!!:?

So before you issue a blanket statement like you have, perhaps you should check your facts first. Afterall how would you like it if I was to say everyone with your name (whatever it is, as you choose to hide it) are a$$holes? (which I know is not true contrary to your example) Wouldn't like that much would you? People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks!!!

You want to help instead of hinder then perhaps spread the word as to who is bad & who is good but don't cover them all with one blanket as I happen to know there are some very good honest agencies out there. The fact that an agency gets one or two or a dozen complaints means nothing. I've been in buisness long enough to learn that you can't please all the people all the time & some fools you can never please at all.

If an agency is deliberatly scamming in one form or another then steer clear & tell everybody else to steer clear. If they are good then say so. But to color them all with the same brush only shows others your own intolerance & ignorance.

Nuff Said!!!

RVR

Canadian Cowboy

[ronin308]

I tend to stay down the middle in this topic, especially after my experiences.  I think the important thing to consider which has been said before is that everyone goes about this a different way and there really isn't just one right or wrong way.

The benefit of an agency is that they hold your hand, sometimes through the entire process.  For some people this is a good thing, they need or want the assistance that can be provided.  Of course it would be stupid to think that they aren't going to charge more for the services they provide, since all they are doing is marking up what someone else is charging them.  Think of it like a travel agent, I can book pretty much the exact same trip through the web but it would require a bit of searching to find it, where the travel agent does this work for me but charges me an extra service fee to do it.

Of course agencies are going to charge what the market will bear, that's how the system works.  I'm sure the company you work for or if you work on your own set's it's prices the exact same way.  There's nothing wrong with it  as long as the customer get's what they want.

As to scammers, sorry but they exist on the dating sites as well, but they aren't policed well or possibly at all.  The "scammer lite" I think is unique to the agency but if you have the same intuition you'll be able to dump her after the first or second date and only be out $40 or so.

Now I'm a little upset at the whole Kevin vs corncrowe thing.  This isn't a place for agencies to slug it out and I'm sure continuing down that road will get you banned for here as well.  Instead of following corncrowes google link which doesn't go to google, I googled on my own.  You know what I found on the top 10, 8 of the items related to Kevin and his business. The 2 "scam" alerts were posted without any hard evidence or facts which makes them worthless.  I also didn't see any of the promised hard evidence on getmarriednow.com either.  This makes me suspect both sides of the issue.

seekandfind are you ever going to read one of Bruno's posts and not comment about it in a negative way.  I'm seriously thinking of sending you a mouse with a wheel on it so you can simply scroll right past them and stop your whining.

[itstime]

You want to help instead of hinder then perhaps spread the word as to who is bad & who is good but don't cover them all with one blanket as I happen to know there are some very good honest agencies out there. The fact that an agency gets one or two or a dozen complaints means nothing. I've been in buisness long enough to learn that you can't please all the people all the time & some fools you can never please at all.

If an agency is deliberatly scamming in one form or another then steer clear & tell everybody else to steer clear. If they are good then say so. But to color them all with the same brush only shows others your own intolerance & ignorance.

No matter how honest an agency is, it is still an agency. I think it is perfectly fair to color all agencies with the same brush because they are all in the same business and doing the same job. Maybe some guys need to use an agency, but it won't hurt them to try going it alone first. Maybe if more men did that then the agencies would focus on the essential services that men need and get away from this ridiculous idea of controlling all contact between women and men by charging overinflated fees per unit of contact.

I see nothing wrong with selling services. I myself have used Russian travel services to arrange a visa. I used www.besteastern.com to book hotels in Russia. I used www.uaapartments.com to book apartments in Kiev, provide taxi to and from the airport and to buy some domestic air tickets to Dnepropetrovsk.

Personally I believe that Russian/Ukrainian marriage agencies are doomed because they are all dominated by stale outmoded thinking and they do not serve the customer, instead they only serve their own pocketbooks. Hopefully some of these agencies will wise up, get out of the bride business and into the travel support business. It is not just western men chasing Russian brides who need support services. There are people adopting orphans, people doing missionary work, people just touring an exotic an unkown locale.

 

[Michelangelo]

Are you EVER going to just read a thread and shut the hell up? These looong, booooring threads og yours are starting to irritate me. A lot.

Dear seekandfind:  The post you found boring was very helpful to others.  Plus, why the heck did you repost all the material you found boring?  You can use the quote feature and just quote the pertenent material, you know...

[Rvrwind]

No matter how honest an agency is, it is still an agency. I think it is perfectly fair to color all agencies with the same brush because they are all in the same business and doing the same job.

On this I think we can disagree as not all agencies are the same & offer the same things. Some agencies go above & beyond & others just don't go at all!!!

No need to insult me.

 

Belieive me when I say, that was no insult but when I do insult you, you will know it.

Maybe some guys need to use an agency, but it won't hurt them to try going it alone first.

 

In this you are totally wrong. The first time is the hardest & an agency can guide you. After that then perhaps on your own is not such a bad idea. But whether a dating agency or travel agency whats the difference. They are a buisness & need to make money to stay afloat. I agree some are way overpriced & their excuses for being so do not cut it with me, but I do believe that if you shop around you can find a good honest agency with reasonable prices & that can offer you the services you need. An agency where you can pick & choose & only pay for what you use is my own preference to that of a so-called full service agency.

Personally I believe that Russian/Ukrainian marriage agencies are doomed because they are all dominated by stale outmoded thinking and they do not serve the customer, instead they only serve their own pocketbooks.[/b]

To a very large degree I agree with this statement. However I also believe for those that are willing to change & meet the demands of the customer as is essential in any buisness, will survive for quite some time yet. Change is required in any buisness & to not change to meet the customers needs is a sure way to doom yourself to extiction.

As an example one company I used to work for refused to change & take the suggestions I put forth. I no longer work there but they started to lose so much money that now I see they are implementing some of my ideas. Unfortunately they are putting them forth as there own but considering the manager hasn't had an original idea of his own in 15 years I am glad I didn't give him the rest of my plans.

Hopefully some of these agencies will wise up, get out of the bride business and into the travel support business. It is not just western men chasing Russian brides who need support services. There are people adopting orphans, people doing missionary work, people just touring an exotic an unkown locale.

 

Agreed on all counts. Like I said, adapting to the customers needs is essential in any buisness.

RVR

Canadian Cowboy

[Seekandfind]

Are you EVER going to just read a thread and shut the hell up? These looong, booooring threads og yours are starting to irritate me. A lot.

Dear seekandfind:  The post you found boring was very helpful to others.  Plus, why the heck did you repost all the material you found boring?  You can use the quote feature and just quote the pertenent material, you know...[/quote]Sure, but since you agree with his dribble I figured you wouldn´t mind reading it all twice.

[Son of Clyde]

Seekandfind, you are bad news. Your comments are useless even if partly true.

[Seekandfind]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

Seekandfind, you are bad news. Your comments are useless even if partly true.

Isn´t that funny?

That is NOT what you wrote in a PM to me.

This is:

"F*** you you slimy piece of ****"

Very nice. Loser.


<added by Moderator> language language...

[Bruce]

Clyde, I greatly respect your ability to lay everything on the line.   You are a resource to your fellow American.   Forget about Sunshine.   It is revealing what it is.

[jb]

You are a resource to your fellow American.

I hope that was posted with tongue firmly in cheek. :cool:

[Bruce]

JB, most definitely !