Ukrainian Model found dead

[PeeWee]

Further, with regards to love. As you know it is something that develops and grows as time marches on. I would not believe that a guy could go to the FSU, meet a woman, and within a week or less be in love with her, or at least expect her to be in love with him. The words are easy to say, the concept takes time to develop.

I have known Lara for 3 years. Once I told her that I loved her. Her response to hearing it was, "You don't know how long I have waited to hear those words." But she did not say it back. I asked an RW friend of my about it. She said to me, "She makes herself available to you, doen't she?" Meaning that if she did not make herself available to me then she is not interested in me. It seems an odd way to tell someone how you feel about them but that is her way of doing it.

So I don't know what is with TP on that issue. There has to be more in it for him than to simply have a warm body. Beyond that I tend to agree with the lad.

PeeWee

[KenC]

So I don't know what is with TP on that issue. There has to be more in it for him than to simply have a warm body. Beyond that I tend to agree with the lad.

PeeWee

If the foundation of the relationship is based on unemotional factors such as money & power without love, I have to wonder how secure this relationship is for the future.  Tiger even said that if his relationship went South, he would just get another RW.  Sorry, but I want more than that in my relationship.

KenC

[TigerPaws]

 Please do not get me wrong, I never said that I do not believe in love, it is just that love is much like smoke, someting difficult to grasp. Love is different for each person and no one can exactly explain what love is, maybe my more pragmatic approach is difficult for some to accept and understand and that is ok, everyone is entitled to do things their own way.

 KenC; If my curent relationship were to end for any reason (divorce, disappearance or death) what do you expect, someone to go into a fit and live as a hermit for their rest of their life? No as in any failure you get over it and move on to try again, there is nothng different in a relationship if it fails learn from your mistakes (hopefully) and move on. Life is too short to dwell on the past and brood over a failure. 

[TigerPaws]

No one is disagreeing with the fact that money and power is attractive to women.  The point is if in fact that money and power (without love) is enough to sustain a longterm happy marriage.

KenC

 KenC,

 Women have for centuries entered into marriges by choice, need and by force for a wide variety of reasons. Sometimes it was to forge a bond between powerful families or to seal a truce between warring kingdoms. Women have a masterful ability to adapt to their circumstances, some even find love within these relationships. How often have you seen a woman enter into a relationship out of need, either monitory, emotional or for security maybe all of the above and in the fullness of time found happiness and possibly love.

 Love is a wonderful thing but security, mutual respect having at least some things in common and the ability of both people to compromise will carry the day far more than love alone.

 

[KenC]

 KenC; If my curent relationship were to end for any reason (divorce, disappearance or death) what do you expect, someone to go into a fit and live as a hermit for their rest of their life? No as in any failure you get over it and move on to try again, there is nothng different in a relationship if it fails learn from your mistakes (hopefully) and move on. Life is too short to dwell on the past and brood over a failure. 

Tiger,

Maybe just a lttle remorse might be fitting though.  You minimize your current relationship to the extent that it sounds like it doesn't matter at all.  I wouldn't want to be in any relationship like that.  In fact, it would suck to be in that type of relationship.  I wouldn't settle for a relationship like that.

KenC 

[PeeWee]

So I don't know what is with TP on that issue. There has to be more in it for him than to simply have a warm body. Beyond that I tend to agree with the lad.

PeeWee

If the foundation of the relationship is based on unemotional factors such as money & power without love, I have to wonder how secure this relationship is for the future.  Tiger even said that if his relationship went South, he would just get another RW.  Sorry, but I want more than that in my relationship.

KenC
[/quote]
It is possible that she is a very honest person and that she is not in love and because of that she does not say it. I'm not worried about it. We have a good time when we are together and she does do many things for me that she does not do for anyone else. At the least we are really, really, really, good friends. Besides, there many degrees, levels, of love. Every relationship existist on one of those levels. To be in love is not what a relationship is all about anyway for me. I get lots of other things out of the relationship. Which is why I somewhat agree with TP.

 

PeeWee

[Admin]

Tiger,

Maybe just a lttle remorse might be fitting though. You minimize your current relationship to the extent that it sounds like it doesn't matter at all. I wouldn't want to be in any relationship like that. In fact, it would suck to be in that type of relationship. I wouldn't settle for a relationship like that.

KenCÂ

Yes, Tiger does sound a bit cavalier at times, but I also see him praising his relationship and tending to it - which doesn't happen unless there are some deep deelings present.

My guess (and it is only a guess, as I've never met them) is that Tiger and his wife have a very nice relationship. It is one that enjoys the many fruits of his labors, and he seems to be willing to share those with his wife and children quite handsomely.

Maybe reading between the lines some - but that's my take on it.

- Dan

[KenC]

Dan,

I had the same opinion of Tiger & Mrs. Tiger's relationship as you, before Tiger posted this "I don't care, she can be easily replaced" post.  The two ideas don't seem to go together.

KenC

[Shadow]

Dan,

I had the same opinion of Tiger & Mrs. Tiger's relationship as you, before Tiger posted this "I don't care, she can be easily replaced" post.  The two ideas don't seem to go together.

KenC

Ken, you are beating a dead horse. TP has already shown his relationship with his wife is more than a business deal to him. I have referred to the visa process as 'import license'to people and occasionally get slammed as it is about peole and not goods. Rationalizing a relation is not always appreciated. I think when he explained in his last post he showed the true meaning of the 'she can be easily replaced' post.

If you start a relationship or marriage with such an age difference you have to be aware of the possible pitfalls. If they happen you will be crushed, but less if you have considered them and what you will have to do on forehand.

When an FSU wife turns out to have been only after the upgrade and not in love another one like her can be found easily. TP is true in that way. The event that started the topic shows clearly there is more than one woman willing to take the risk.

[Turboguy]

I think one of the differences that we must deal with is that FSU women tend to be more practical.    Things like appearance and even age to an extent can be less important.  Somone who can give them a good life, who will get rid of the problems and worry they face daily,  and who will try be a good husband and good father appeals to the needs in their life.   I think they rate practicality and necessity higher then responding to their raging hormones. 

Gals here do it too.  I had a gal tell me she married a guy to get out of Johnsonburg Pa which is up in the mountains in the middle of nowhere.   Where did she end up.  the big city of Erie PA which is about as bad a place to live as there is.   I guess if an American girl will do that, I can understand why an FSU gal gets married to leave there.

It would seem logical to me that with the practical side to Russian women the more money and power you have the more bargaining ability you have.  

[anono]

once upon a time i met two ladies, one russian, the other ukrainian. one is 40, the other 26, locally.

the 40yr old is married to a guy who makes decent living. she says she married because the guy paid for some hand surgery for her son and she felt "obligated" to marry him when he asked. she is here in the usa, living with this man and her son and either seeking out or currently in relations with another man.

the 26yr old is near or model quality, married to a doctor, studying medicine and has a eight month old son with the doctor. they have been married three years. they knew each other four days before he asked her to marry her. there is a 30 yr age difference. she is currently carrying on an affair with a younger new doctor.

i am currently involved with a woman 27yrs younger so these stories of course are of interest to me.

the difference is, i have not seen any red or yellow flags. i look for them constantly. all i see instead are things that confirm over and over again that this lady is simply into me. everything seems to come from her heart. could things change once she comes to the usa? it is a risk i might take sometime in the future.

i have the time to spend with her in ukraine. it is not a one week wonder situation. even then, there are no guarantees because it is impossible to predict what people will do in new environments.

i also see a similar risk in relationships with women here in the usa. i see examples of woman "trading up" on a regular basis.

i guess i'd rather take this risk with a ukrainain lady and all the things that come with her.

as for this dead model, i know of a man who met her back in ukraine before she was married. he was taken by her initially but once he returned to the usa, he saw she was interested in his money and not him as a man. i know this man and i know how much he wants a ukrainain wife yet he was able to see this woman for what she was and ended it with her early in the process.

life and relationships are huge risks. 

so far, i have managed the risks in my life well enough to have lived 49 yrs with only a few broken bones. dang motorcycles.

 

[jb]

anono wrote:

once upon a time i met two ladies, one russian, the other ukrainian. one is 40, the other 26, locally.

the 40yr old is married to a guy who makes decent living. she says she married because the guy paid for some hand surgery for her son and she felt "obligated" to marry him when he asked. she is here in the usa, living with this man and her son and either seeking out or currently in relations with another man.

the 26yr old is near or model quality, married to a doctor, studying medicine and has a eight month old son with the doctor. they have been married three years. they knew each other four days before he asked her to marry her. there is a 30 yr age difference. she is currently carrying on an affair with a younger new doctor.

i am currently involved with a woman 27yrs younger so these stories of course are of interest to me.

anono, the diferences are a bit wider than you might imagine.  The essence is that you are able to spend the requsite time in the FSU and know what the pitfalls are.  Knowing about a pothole and avoiding it is not the same as blindly stumbling headlong into one.  I'd wager that the two men married to the women you listed would have never married the women in question if they'd had a clue about their two-timing habits.  I can't envision any man willingly or proudly wearing the lable, "cuckold".

I cannot get inside KenC's head, but I think his purpose of posting the thread in the first place was to highlight the dangers of marrying women with huge gaps in cultural values.  Plus or minus 30 year age differences are not the final yardstick for measuring cultural differences.  Why not call a spade a spade? Any woman who seeks adventure outside her marriage bed is not good wife material.  In the case of our dead model, she was doing it for money and expensive gifts, that makes her a prostitute.  In the case of a woman who does it for sexual thrills, that makes her a slut.  Who in his right mind wants to be married to either class of woman regardless of how young and pretty she might be?

[KenC]

Anno,

There are all sorts of RW with different levels of morals and character traits.  Just as there are all sorts of AM with different levels of relationship experience.  What we have in the featured story is what can happen when a RW of low moral character hooks up with an inexperienced and naive AM.  My guess is that the hubby in question probably rushed into his marriage without knowing this woman well or if he did know her, he chose to ignore the obvious character flaws.

How does tha relate to your situation?  Hardly at all.  You may have the age difference, be American and your gal is Russian.  End of similarities.  I would compare your situation more to mine 7 years ago.  #1 You are very experienced in dating women.  Much more experienced with fsu women than I ever was.

#2 You are taking your time and getting to know your gal well before jumping into anything.

#3 Because of #2, you will know your gal's moral character well.

Marrying a woman that is significantly younger than you can be a difficult and risky proposition, but with out these steps it is just plain foolishness.  You'll be OK.

KenC

[anono]

jb and kenc,

i have not seen one red flag. not even a yellow or tainted flag. in fact, all i  have seen are green flags.

her english teacher (who she did not know until i hooked them up) says "robert, you are a lucky man. this woman does everything from her heart. she will be a good daughter for your mother. other ladies in my english class complain and say they are tired. J has never said this. she is not spoiled. when she says the word "rabbit" in a sentence she is to repeat to me, she says "robert". all she thinks about is you".

other UW with AM friends of mine, such as "jim naseum" and another mutual aquaintance, their ladies, after having met j, say "robert is a lucky man, you do not find ladies like this". another friends lady could not understand why i was even thinking about keeping on the lookout for other ladies.

then there is the way she emotes on the telephone. "anything for you robert." robert, i want  to be with you always". robert, i live for you." and so on. there are many other examples i just cannot think of right now but i think you get the idea.

it's amazing.:dude:

[PeeWee]

once upon a time i met two ladies, one russian, the other ukrainian. one is 40, the other 26, locally.

the 40yr old is married to a guy who makes decent living. she says she married because the guy paid for some hand surgery for her son and she felt "obligated" to marry him when he asked. she is here in the usa, living with this man and her son and either seeking out or currently in relations with another man.

the 26yr old is near or model quality, married to a doctor, studying medicine and has a eight month old son with the doctor. they have been married three years. they knew each other four days before he asked her to marry her. there is a 30 yr age difference. she is currently carrying on an affair with a younger new doctor.

i am currently involved with a woman 27yrs younger so these stories of course are of interest to me.

the difference is, i have not seen any red or yellow flags. i look for them constantly. all i see instead are things that confirm over and over again that this lady is simply into me. everything seems to come from her heart. could things change once she comes to the usa? it is a risk i might take sometime in the future.

i have the time to spend with her in ukraine. it is not a one week wonder situation. even then, there are no guarantees because it is impossible to predict what people will do in new environments.

i also see a similar risk in relationships with women here in the usa. i see examples of woman "trading up" on a regular basis.

i guess i'd rather take this risk with a ukrainain lady and all the things that come with her.

as for this dead model, i know of a man who met her back in ukraine before she was married. he was taken by her initially but once he returned to the usa, he saw she was interested in his money and not him as a man. i know this man and i know how much he wants a ukrainain wife yet he was able to see this woman for what she was and ended it with her early in the process.

life and relationships are huge risks. 

so far, i have managed the risks in my life well enough to have lived 49 yrs with only a few broken bones. dang motorcycles.

 

It seems to me that you have this "wired", anono. You think like I do in one regard. Life and relationships are risks that, if not taken, will not happen, either for the good or for the bad. The Leanne Womack song, "...if given the chance to sit it out or dance...I hope  you dance." It is me and it is  you. Good luck with it.

I stopped looking for red flags some time ago. I could not see them any longer. These past two days in Moscow have been the most beneficial in terms of relationship building. There is nothing better than to see a woman who is comfortable in her own environment and can act as she naturally would in every day situations. I would never have known that this woman that I know drives her car on the hottest day in the slowest Moscow traffic with out benefit of an air conditioner, with a constant smile on her face. She does not for a minute stop smiling while she drives her car. Is that a red flag or is is that a person who is happy in her heart? I would never had seen the tender and mood that touches the soul had I not attend her church and seen her reverence for her family since dead and for her family now living. The experience gave me an appreciation for the depth of her caring for all of those that she loves. These moments we do not see in letters or on the telephone. We have to live them with her and that is  why you must visit her in her country.

Today is a day off for my son and I. After two days of intensive sight seeing my lady has flown away to Germany at the request of her company, for business and to kick some ass, I think. She will return tomorrow and we spend it doing more sights. This visit has also brought my son to know her better. He's acceptance of her is growing by the day. But that is because she is who she is and her manner toward him has disarmed him as much as she did me when I first met her.

Onward, Anono. Both you and I have a life time of adventures to yet know.

 

Peewee and peewee junior reporting from Moscow

[anono]

some sms messages worth sharing:

"i love you very much My darling I know you my life I want be with you all my life kiss you I want you"

and

"My Robert, i understand only you need me"

:cool:

[Bruno]

some sms messages worth sharing:

"i love you very much My darling I know you my life I want be with you all my life kiss you I want you"

and

"My Robert, i understand only you need me"

:cool:

Since we are about sharing... from yesterday chat session...

Lioness (08:28 PM) :
[/size][/color]
I very lucky again to communicate with you, but I want else more.....

Bruno (08:28 PM) :
[/size][/color]
What do you want more ?

Lioness (08:29 PM) :

when you will choose bed for our joint life please buy very strong =-O
[/size][/color]

The rest is not for public forum... :cool::cool::cool:

[itstime]

I think one of the differences that we must deal with is that FSU women tend to be more practical.    Things like appearance and even age to an extent can be less important.  Somone who can give them a good life, who will get rid of the problems and worry they face daily,  and who will try be a good husband and good father appeals to the needs in their life.   I think they rate practicality and necessity higher then responding to their raging hormones. 

In my case it is a mixture. She likes the fact that I am good-humored because her ex-husband beat her. She likes the fact that I do not smoke and I do not drink. She likes the fact that I am Roman Catholic because the Orthodox church accepts marriage between Orthodox and Catholics.

On the other hand....

Well, I expect most of you have bedded more than one woman and are aware that all bodies are arranged slightly differently. Some pairs of bodies fit together easily and some are so awkward that good sex is not possible. Let's just say that we have found the perfect fit!!! And part of that is my potbelly. I'm only about 15 lbs overweight or so. If I stand at attention and suck in my gut, you can barely see the potbelly in the mirror... unless you have a side view. But she just loves that darn belly. And once she figured that out I noticed that she encourages me to eat more than she did at first...

By the way, I am not rich and I am not powerful. But this girl is a real knockout. When I saw all the young women walking along the street in Kiev I was struck by how she is much better looking than women 10 years younger than her.

 

 

[jb]

Well, I expect most of you have bedded more than one woman and are aware that all bodies are arranged slightly differently. Some pairs of bodies fit together easily and some are so awkward that good sex is not possible. Let's just say that we have found the perfect fit!!! And part of that is my potbelly. I'm only about 15 lbs overweight or so. If I stand at attention and suck in my gut, you can barely see the potbelly in the mirror... unless you have a side view. But she just loves that darn belly.

Now there's a visual I could have done without.

1sttime, there's such a thing as "TMI", (too much information), you might think about that the next time you decide to brag about your sexual exploits.

[Seekandfind]

TP: All the personal attacks looks like a lot of jeaulousy to me.

I understand what you ae saying, and I totally agree with you. It´s a DEAL no matter how you look at it, and the more means you have, the better the deal.And if love comes along the way, well that´s just great! If not, a good companionship wtih mutual respect and understanding is fine with me. I would do exactly what you are doing if I had your bankaccount, unfortunately I don´t (yet), but I am in my 30s, so she´ll have to compromise on the money thing and settle for my good looks for now.

I think you have a great life, there isn´t a person in here who wouldn´t mind living the way you do. Have a great voyage and enjoy life.

JB:

I don´t want to start an arguement with you, at least not in English:D, but you oughta start looking in the mirror. You are so negative in many of your postings, you love to flame people you feel inferior to. That´s a petty, because it will keep you from learning some valuable lessons in life. No offense.

[jb]

JB:

I don´t want to start an arguement with you, at least not in English:D, <snip>  you love to flame people you feel inferior to.

What language would you prefer?  You never know, I am fluent or semi-fluent in some other languages besides English. Take your pick, you might get lucky.  Anything but French.

FYI, disagreeing is not necessarily flaming.  I am somewhat direct in my manner of speech, but I was under the impression I deal with men here, not boys.  Real men are able to hear an occassional four letter word without getting their panties in a wad.

I do not claim superiority over anyone, but I feel inferior to no one.

[Seekandfind]

Seekandfind and jb, please take your argument outside the public topics.

[BC]

FYI
http://www2.dailynews.com/news/ci_2986847

[ConnerVT]

Thanks for the article, BC.  They all seem like very interesting people...  :?