What do you think about this fellow?

[Maxx2]

I got this letter from a guy facing time in prison. I was wondering what your impressions are of him and his case.

I am a mild-mannered librarian, 5'4" and 120 pounds, with no criminal record. A graduate of Cornell University, I hold a master's degree in English from Brooklyn College and a master's degree in library science from Queens College. In my 38 years, I have no history of violence. Until being placed on leave pending dismissal as a result of the wrongful verdict against me, I was a librarian at a women’s college, where I worked for 8 years. I still work part-time as a Mandingo interpreter, mostly serving gynecological patients from West Africa, having studied the language at Cornell University. I am an ardent, even a radical feminist, in spite of all that has happened to me over the past year and a half.

My accuser is a brawny Dominican, 23 years old, 5'7" and 160 pounds, whom I met on a social networking web site, corresponded with in Spanish (which I speak and write very credibly) for a year and a half, and finally invited over here to marry in June of 2006. For four months, she abused me  on a daily basis (especially when drunk), also exploiting me sexually, though I told no third party about the abuse. (Put in plain English, she used to get drunk on Miller beer--which I bought her--and beat me regularly, while I was on my knees giving oral sex to her practically every night. Had I so much as pinched this lioness in retaliation, I would be in the cemetery now, not writing these words.) Finally, in late October 2006, I told my wife that if she did not stop abusing me, I could no longer support her, but would insist that we separate. I offered to take her to live with her relatives in Washington Heights or Peabody, Massachusetts; or to buy her a ticket back to Santo Domingo. The next morning, she banged her head on a wall while I lay in bed, and testified to the police that I had assaulted her after she refused to have anal sex, adding for good measure that I had raped her an indefinite number of times during the prior months. Originally she said that I had raped her forcibly; later she changed her story, testifying that I had had sex with her without her consent, which lack of consent she had expressed by crying, but no effort to resist my aggressions.

All of her allegations were false; she leveled them in the knowledge, derived from publications in Spanish that I kept around the house and (I believe) from a cousin who had done the same thing to an American man, that all an immigrant woman need do is accuse a man of such acts, in order to  reap the benefits of the Violence Against Women Act, which states that any undocumented immigrant woman whose partner is convicted of any form of abuse will be put on an immediate fast-track to receive a green card. All Latina immigrant women know about it. Every year, thousands of them fraudulently charge men with abuse in order to exploit this law, sometimes in collusion with the men accused (whom they pay cash); sometimes, as in my case, just to destroy him and pick over his carcass.

My situation has grown far more dreadful and bizarre since the day in October 2006 when I was first arrested and charged with these fictional crimes.
From the start, the DA's office didn't care that my accuser had an obvious and powerful motivation to lie, and in fact had abused and sexually exploited me during the entire course of our relationship. They didn't    care that her crude charges were backed by no evidence or corroboration whatsoever. They didn't care that I had taken her to the gynecologist during the very period when she later claimed that I was raping her, and she had told this physician that she had a perfectly normal and satisfying sex life. Nothing mattered but that she was female, I was male, and she had accused   me of this felony offense. The full force of the legal system came down on  my head: as related above, I was immediately arrested, booked some 12 hours later on false charges of rape and battery, and released 26 hours after  that, after spending the night in the maximum-security section of the Tombs, branded a sex offender with a special ID to set me apart from the other prisoners.

Alas, I exhibited the same credulity and lack of discernment in choosing my trial lawyer that I did in choosing my wife. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, recommended to me by a childhood friend who is also a lawyer, told me that he was "the best criminal defense lawyer in New York" and the ideal advocate for a man  in my position. In fact, his performance at my trial, which took place from 10/11/07 through 10/16/07, was so deficient that the jury was practically compelled to convict me, which they did. I would be glad to show you, and even supply to you, a copy of the transcript of my trial, so you can see just how incompetent XXXX was; here, I will just offer the summary facts that he cross-examined witnesses (including my wife) perfunctorily or not at all; failed to rebut any of the hundreds of falsehoods about me proffered as facts by Assistant District Attorney xxxxxxxxxx; failed to introduce any evidence in my defense, though plenty was available; failed to call any witnesses on my behalf, including character witnesses, though countless were available; failed to keep in touch with me for the nine months preceding my trial; failed to prepare me to testify, though I begged him for just an hour; and ultimately, announced that I would not be testifying to court and jury without even informing or consulting with me first. No case having been presented in my defense, the jury quickly returned a verdict of guilty on  the charge of rape in the third degree, an "E" felony. Just before they did so, I made a statement on the record that I had been denied my right to testify in my own defense, XXXX lied through his teeth that I had approved the decision, and the judge ordered a hearing to determine the truth.

Now my only hope lies in a 330 motion, and appeal if that fails, on grounds of inneffectiveness of counsel--a combined $30,000 to $50,000 enterprise. In the meantime, I will probably go to prison just like xxxxxxxxx to begin serving my sentence (currently delayed pending a ruling  on my 330 motion) unless my new lawyer can prevail on the judge to stay it pending appeal. The only bright spot is that the judge assigned to my case does not appear to be biased against men or against me, judging by how he ran my trial. It was my former lawyer who betrayed me and his profession, a proclivity for which he was suspended from the practice of law by the Supreme Court of the State of New York, Appellate Division on 2/7/08, his specific offense being the “misappropriation” of $763,730.55 in his clients’ funds.
The hearing on my 330 motion is presently scheduled for 6/10/08 in the courtroom of Judge XXXXXXXXXXXX.

Should my 330 motion and appeal fail, I shall emerge from prison with ex-felon and sex offender status for life, with all the deprivation of civil liberties entailed by that condition. I will have no potential to remarry, nor to have or adopt children, nor even to earn a decent living or to vote in the country where my accuser will be a free and legal permanent resident, whom I will be obligated to support out  of what meager income I am able to patch together, doing whatever work I can possibly find that requires no background check. My parents in their old age will watch their son face his middle age wrecked and alone in this country, or else attempting to build a better life in a foreign land, seeing them but occasionally.
Let us American victims unite, to put a stop to this hellish injustice!

Sincerely,
                     DG

[Admin]

Maxx,

I am going to suggest that you STRONGLY consider editing your post to remove the names. I presume you realize that YOU are assuming any and all liability with posting material that others may consider defamatory. To do so in a case where you are NOT a principal strikes me as a very risky position for you to take.

As for the story itself - I can tell you that I have strong confidence in our jury system. There are a great many problems with the US legal system, but when a jury is involved, the odds of getting an equitable decision are increased dramatically. It is not perfect - but the juries get it right (IMO) more often than not.

I also don't 'buy' all the complaining about the guy's legal counsel. Simple facts are, there are plenty of attorneys who LOVE to sue other attorney's when there are instances of legal malpractice. In fact, they sue on a contingency fee basis which will cost the person bringing the suit nothing, or very little. My bet is that this guy has reviewed his case with a malpractice attorney, and found there was little merit to his complaint.

FWIW

- Dan

[Ronnie]

Maxx...there are some things that I don't understand.  If he is a US citizen why was she in the country illegally when he says she came at his request to marry? 

Further, he says there were "hundreds" of false allegations against him.  Man, I've you're going to concoct charges..you certainly would be hard pressed to come up with a dozen let alone hundreds.  So many opportunities to get caught in a lie.

I never heard a man describe himself as a "feminist" before this. 

Why get on your knees to give a woman oral sex?  That assumes "she" was standing if she was beating him.  Something's wrong with this picture.

Also, I find it rather convenient that he is the size of a small woman while she is a "brawny" Domenican (read: black).

I have other questions but let's just ask him for the transcript of his trial as he offered and see what's really up here.

[BC]

Taking it at face value, I wonder why he even put up with it all.

[I/O]

I was wondering what your impressions are of him and his case.

Sounds remarkably like so many letters which are written in poorly translated form, speaking of drunken fathers, overworked mothers and jailed brothers and..................Dear potential benefactor, when a coin in my tin shall ring, my young ripe body, from this purgatory shall spring..............to you.

Follow the money line, even if it is only mentioned once, money was mentioned. Dunno but it smells like a fishing for a donation exercise to me.

I/O

[Phil dAmore]

I'm with I/O on this one.  Where did this letter come from?  Was it addressed to you specifically?  Do you know this person? Wouldn't information like this be in the public record?

If it's real... well then it sucks to be him but methinks it's a scam.

[KenC]

From reading Maxx's stories over the years, it seems that his male "victims" fall into two distinct categories:

1. Men that have little experience with women and allow the woman to take the driver's seat in the relationship.  These weak men allow themselves to be dominated.  Over time, the women get fed up with their fate and pull the ultimate power play to free themselves from the weak men.  In this case the men have already established a position of being over powered by the stronger dominate woman.

2. Men that may have actually abused their wives.  We cannot ignore the fact that abuse does happen.

In my first example, I am not trying to justify the woman's actions as any variance from the truth is despicable.  It is just that these dominating women "use" (or abuse) the system as it is presented to them.  There will always be weak and foolish men that are just happy to be with any woman that might have them.  The truth of the matter is that it is usually stronger more dominate men that take advantage of weaker more subservient women.
KenC

[Maxx2]

Losers or Abusers

From reading Maxx's stories over the years, it seems that his male "victims" fall into two distinct categories:

1. Men that have little experience with women and allow the woman to take the driver's seat in the relationship.  These weak men allow themselves to be dominated.  Over time, the women get fed up with their fate and pull the ultimate power play to free themselves from the weak men.  In this case the men have already established a position of being over powered by the stronger dominate woman.

2. Men that may have actually abused their wives.  We cannot ignore the fact that abuse does happen.

In my first example, I am not trying to justify the woman's actions as any variance from the truth is despicable.  It is just that these dominating women "use" (or abuse) the system as it is presented to them.  There will always be weak and foolish men that are just happy to be with any woman that might have them.  The truth of the matter is that it is usually stronger more dominate men that take advantage of weaker more subservient women.
KenC

I reason why I asked this group this question is that I knew I would get harsh criticism of this fellow. You fellows have the reputation of tigers eating their young. What I am doing is I am trying to anticipate what feminists and others who hate men such as yourselves (pursuers and husbands of "MOBs") will say about him. He asked us to edit his story as we saw fit to publish on our website for victims of marriage fraud and false allegations for a green card.

There are two fallacies I would like to clear up about victims or "victims" as KenC puts it. First is that all victims of this kind of fraud are deficient in intelligence or sophistication with women/men. As example of the people I have been in contact with 3 are lawyers, 2 are college professors and 2 are cops. These are not people with low IQs or sophistication to the ways of the world yet they were defrauded and totally taken in by their wives and husband (one of the lawyers is an AW). They had their radar up for a scam but it didn't help. 

The second fallacy about marriage fraud victims is that they do not know the culture or the language of the women they marry. This is not always true. I am finding that a good percentage of the men and women who look overseas for a spouse are immigrants. About a third of our group. They look back in their former home country for a spouse that will understand them and their customs. Hispanic with Hispanic, Indian with Indian, Ukrainian with Ukrainian (or at least FSU) and so on. The only lack of sophistication I notice with these people is their surprise that a person of their culture could do such things to another human being. What they miss is that in their culture there is a sub culture of criminals but it was difficult for them to believe that their fiancee/fiance could belong to such a group. Love and loyalty to a spouse or fiancee/fiance is what blinds them. This wife/fiancee loyalty/blindness is also a problem for nonimmigrants. I noticed Brad Sharp posted on his thread that at anytime or for any good reason you have to be prepared to cut them loose. Doug Salem used to call it "Next them" (I miss Doug, he was good friend). This is especially tough to do if you marry them over there as I did.

In regard to what KenC said of men allowing themselves to be walked all over. Doug said the same with you guys. You guys go on and on what great caring husbands you are. You are great husbands, caring step fathers and kind son-in-laws. You adopt and learn your wives culture. Learn their language and make Russia/Ukraine your second home. Some of you probably have rugs hanging on your walls and wouldn't dare wear your shoes in the house to risk a scolding. The "weak men" try and do the same as you guys. The difference is that their wives never encourage them to learn their language or culture as they have no intention of sticking around. In the mean time the "weak men" do the same things you guys do with material things. It is after all in a man's nature to want to provide for his wife (probably a cave man thing). These things are eagerly taken by their wives especially the spending money as they prepare their "landing field" as Donna Pedro used to call it to a future life apart from their husbands. It must be hard to imagine and factor in the degree of treacherousness of these women that look and sound like your wives but are quite different inside.

The second point KenC made about the "weak men" driving their women off because of their patience (weakness), kindness (weakness) and tolerance (weakness). Being tough is a quality that allot of these women admire. They admire Stalin and don't give a flip about his gulags, purges and planned mass starvations. He was tough and ruthless and that is what they want in their men. The western man raised to respect women and their opinions are mincemeat to these women. The guy could stand up and take back his pants that his wife is now wearing but he does take the risk of her testing him to all new heights of his self control. As in another fellow's story;

"in April of 2007, we had back to back nights of arguments, which in retrospect, were pretty stupid to have even argued over. The first night, I felt stronger than ever that she was trying to get me to strike her. She was on her knees in front of me, begging my forgiveness for being such a bad slave! Of course, I never hit her. That is not who I am. I told her at that point, that I could not live this way any longer. Maybe it was time that I grant what she wants. If she wants to return to Russia, so be it. I will send her back. I know that was a poor choice of words, but I only repeated what she said many times. She told me that I would be sorry. We had another argument the next night, but I took my son and left for awhile. That was really the last time we spoke.

The very next day, at 10pm on a Thursday night, I was presented with a domestic protection order by the county sherriff. I had to leave my house immediately. In this order, she accused me of beating her, abusing her physically and mentally, and threatening to kill her. None of these are true! It is important to note, that this took place approximately one month after the last marriage counseling session, and these abuses and threats were not mentioned to the counselor."

"Weak men" are often smart men as they know how the system works as in the above case. Tough guys get slaughtered in DV court.

The second group KenC mentioned are the true abusers. Most of the men I talk to that seem cold, selfish and maybe abusive I wonder if they are. Do they seem abusive because of their marriages and the abuse thatthey went through at the hands and tongues of their wives? That their abusive language in describing their wives is just a defense mechanism from getting too emotionally hurt from the verbal abuse and rejection they received? That maybe they were not abusive it all unless arguing is considered emotional abuse? I know Ken has admitted to arguing with his Lena. If Lena had been a GCG she would have used Ken's strong nature and financial guidance at the beginning of his marriage when "Lena didn't know the difference between $1,000, $10,000 and $100,000 when she first came here " to crucify him in DV court as controlling and so on. It would be pure nonsense of course and so it might be with these guys. Of course there are truly abusive men who go too far and for too long as in always with their 'financial guidance' and demands for respect enforced with force. Except in cases where physical evidence of abuse is clearly present it is difficult to know who are the abusers and who are not.   

Here is something I wrote in a veiled way about my marriage. "Him" is me. Can any of you guys identify with this?

The Russian friends not liking the American husband that I referred to was in regard to their acting almost frightened and apprehensive when they encounter him. Rather like a strange cat meeting a large dog in a hall way. The husband comes home early and his wife's friends are there. They start looking at his wife like "what should we do?!". The wife just stares at them. They quickly call the children together and start moving along the wall to the door. The husband like the big dog is wagging his tail and saying "Please don't go. I would like to visit with you..." but the friends quickly dress the children in their coats and leave without saying goodbye. The husband opens the refrigerator and is surprised to see that except for the condiments stored on the door the refrigerator is empty... There was plenty food there in the morning.

The husband quickly figures out what is going on. It least he thinks he knows. So the next time he encounters the friends he hands his wife a roll of $20 bills for groceries. His wife grabs them and quickly goes into another room to count them. She doesn't want to do that in front of them. She comes out and her friends are packing up to leave despite the husband urging them to stay and visit for a while.

A few days later the phone rings. The friends have called the wife and are asking her if she wants to go out with them. She asks he husband with her hand over the receiver if he has any plans for them together. He says "Oh no, you can go with your friends if you would like". She talks on the phone in Russian which the husband cannot understand. Her tone is serious. She hangs up the phone and says "I will stay with you". Over the next several weeks this happens again and again.

Finally one day the husband comes home early. His wife and her girlfriend are drunk and listening to loud Euro-Russian music. He can hear it before he gets out of his car. The girlfriend emboldened by the alcohol asks the the husband "Why don't you give Elena (Most Russian woman are named Elena you know) more money? Today we went to the mall and she had no money to buy her son a milk. He is a good boy and he should be able to have a milk". To which the husband replies "I do give Elena money but money is tight right now for us. You see I am sending allot of my money to Russia to help Elena's mother *buy an apartment*." To which the drunk friend says to his wife "Elena, why didn't tell me this?" Elena doesn't answer but goes into the bathroom and cries. The husband thinks "To tell her I am helping her mother would spoil the image of me she is trying to portray."   

It takes real strength to keep one's mouth shut, play clueless and keep *feeding* the Russian bear while the divorce papers are being prepared. 

 Maxx

[Ronnie]

I apologize for asking this because I know it was disclosed previously.. Maxx what was your ex's age when you married her and yours?

[Maxx2]

She was 33 and I was 48. She had a 6 year old son. She was a psychologist which I thought was an indicator of a solid person who cares for others. Her 4 year degree was for an economist. Since I am a business man I thought that this skill, bookkeeping essentially, would come in handy in a family business. My hope was that her son would help me with my business as he grew older. The age difference was an issue with her something I didn't know when I married her. She preferred younger men. Younger than herself. All the men she had ever been with were in their twenties and I was pushing 50. I began putting the puzzle together after she got here and she suddenly changed. I noticed she liked the young male movie stars. The kind of men Hollywood finds to entice teenage girls to the theaters. Men whom mature 34 year old women would normally be embarrassed to admit liking. She would buy tabloids of the stars. Watch the "E" channel all the time. Liked "Grease" and the young Travolta whom she would watch transfixed with a grin on her face. She dragged me off to see "Legally Blond 2". In Russia she liked what I liked. Once in America that suddenly changed. I had this age difference problem with her figured out. It was confirmed to me by one of her acquaintances when she told me that my wife thinks like a teenager. That she preferred light conversations and would change the subject if it went into areas that were deep or mature.

Maxx

[KenC]

She was 33 and I was 48. She had a 6 year old son. She was a psychologist which I thought was an indicator of a solid person who cares for others. Her 4 year degree was for an economist. Since I am a business man I thought that this skill, bookkeeping essentially, would come in handy in a family business. My hope was that her son would help me with my business as he grew older. The age difference was an issue with her something I didn't know when I married her. She preferred younger men. Younger than herself. All the men she had ever been with were in their twenties and I was pushing 50. I began putting the puzzle together after she got here and she suddenly changed. I noticed she liked the young male movie stars. The kind of men Hollywood finds to entice teenage girls to the theaters. Men whom mature 34 year old women would normally be embarrassed to admit liking. She would buy tabloids of the stars. Watch the "E" channel all the time. Liked "Grease" and the young Travolta whom she would watch transfixed with a grin on her face. She dragged me off to see "Legally Blond 2". In Russia she liked what I liked. Once in America that suddenly changed. I had this age difference problem with her figured out. It was confirmed to me by one of her acquaintances when she told me that my wife thinks like a teenager. That she preferred light conversations and would change the subject if it went into areas that were deep or mature.

Maxx

Maxx,
It is call immaturity.  How could you have married such an immature woman that turned into such a headcase?  The "qualifications" you list here (her bookkeeping skills would be good for my business and the boy could work in my business) make it sound as if you were shopping for two indentured servants!  How could you be so naive and foolish?
KenC

[Maxx2]

Maxx,
It is call immaturity.  How could you have married such an immature woman that turned into such a headcase?  The "qualifications" you list here (her bookkeeping skills would be good for my business and the boy could work in my business) make it sound as if you were shopping for two indentured servants!  How could you be so naive and foolish?
KenC

I didn't know she was immature when I married her. She acted mature. Her interest and profession in psychology was in my opinion not for a desire to help people but on knowing how to manipulate people. One of her courses was on NLP. That is about learned ability to read people and their natural inclinations and then manipulate them in various ways. I married what I thought was a mature women of thirty three, 12 years older than Ken's wife when he married her soon after she turned 21.

"Indentured servants"? I can see how someone could jump to this conclusion if their only desire is to get the youngest prettiest wife possible and keep her childless. I was looking for a strong family as well as a wife. Some of the strongest families I know are those with family businesses. When they came here I never pressed them to work and they never did. I figured out quickly that I didn't want her in my business.

Maxx   

[KenC]

I didn't know she was immature when I married her. She acted mature. Her interest and profession in psychology was in my opinion not for a desire to help people but on knowing how to manipulate people. One of her courses was on NLP. That is about learned ability to read people and their natural inclinations and then manipulate them in various ways. I married what I thought was a mature women of thirty three, 12 years older than Ken's wife when he married her soon after she turned 21.

Well that just goes to show you that age is just a number.  BTW Lena was almost 22 when we married!  An oldie but a goodie.
If you put all your faith on the age of this woman and none on your personal observations, shame on you.

How is it possible that this immature and unbalanced woman duped you for all the time that you spent together prior to marriage?  It is my experience that people really do not change much.  So the idea that she was "normal" prior to marriage and "got goofy" immediately following matrimony doesn't wash in my world.  You must not have been paying attention to the important things during your courtship.

"Indentured servants"? I can see how someone could jump to this conclusion if their only desire is to get the youngest prettiest wife possible and keep her childless. I was looking for a strong family as well as a wife. Some of the strongest families I know are those with family businesses. When they came here I never pressed them to work and they never did. I figured out quickly that I didn't want her in my business.

Maxx   

Your attempt to turn this on me doesn't even make sense, Maxx.  You said up thread that your criteria for choosing this woman was that she and her son would be beneficial to your business.  That in itself sounds cold and calculating on your part.  My reasons for marrying Lena are not relevant to this discussion.  But if you are so interested, please read my trip report as it tells all about our situation.
KenC

[Admin]

I didn't know she was immature when I married her. She acted mature. Her interest and profession in psychology was in my opinion not for a desire to help people but on knowing how to manipulate people. One of her courses was on NLP. That is about learned ability to read people and their natural inclinations and then manipulate them in various ways. I married what I thought was a mature women of thirty three, 12 years older than Ken's wife when he married her soon after she turned 21.

"Indentured servants"? I can see how someone could jump to this conclusion if their only desire is to get the youngest prettiest wife possible and keep her childless. I was looking for a strong family as well as a wife. Some of the strongest families I know are those with family businesses. When they came here I never pressed them to work and they never did. I figured out quickly that I didn't want her in my business.

Maxx   

Maxx,

NLP is an acronym for Neuro-linguistic programming. Your characterization of NLP as being; "about learned ability to read people and their natural inclinations and then manipulate them in various ways" is a gross distortion. It is far more about learning about one-self, and making adjustments internally. It was big in the 80's, and has since lost favor among many serious students/practitioners. You can still find it being applied amongst the 'hot coals' crowd.

- Dan

[SANDRO43]

You can still find it being applied amongst the 'hot coals' crowd.

Stokers on ancient steamers ? Revivalist blacksmiths ? Weekend open-air grill operators ???

[Admin]

Stokers on ancient steamers ? Revivalist blacksmiths ? Weekend open-air grill operators ???

Walking across hot coals and believing it is the 'power' of your newly-discovered inner powers (NLP) that keeps you from getting burned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-walking

- Dan

[Maxx2]

Walking across hot coals and believing it is the 'power' of your newly-discovered inner powers (NLP) that keeps you from getting burned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-walking

- Dan

I went into my old computer to get this one.



It's my ex fire walking and hamming it up to impress a boyfriend. She brought lots of photos like this with her.

Successful firewalking has allot to do with the isolating properties of the ash and the sweat of the feet.   

I told my story about her is to show that a Russian woman can tell you that she is being starved, kept from friends and given no money yet it might all be a sham. Sham marriage, sham feelings, sham charges, get it? I remember some of you hearing stories like I told from Russian women you knew. Then you guys go off with your wives and be the white knights and go rescue them. You might be being scammed.

Maxx

[Admin]

I went into my old computer to get this one.



It's my ex fire walking and hamming it up to impress a boyfriend. She brought lots of photos like this with her.

Successful firewalking has allot to do with the isolating properties of the ash and the sweat of the feet.   

I told my story about her is to show that a Russian woman can tell you that she is being starved, kept from friends and given no money yet it might all be a sham. Sham marriage, sham feelings, sham charges, get it? I remember some of you hearing stories like I told from Russian women you knew. Then you guys go off with your wives and be the white knights and go rescue them. You might be being scammed.

Maxx

Maxx,

There is no doubt - none whatsoever - that plenty of 'scammers' exist. They exist in the FSU, and they exist in the US, and every place in-between. They are female, and they are male. Presumably, there are even some hermaphrodite scammers - although never knowingly having met one, I cannot attest to it. There are situational scammers, and there are pathological scammers.

There are also some who are not.

The value of RWD is to help people find those who are not.

- Dan

[Jet]

Back to the original question...

The story sounds a bit far fetched, but that aside and going strictly on the information given; the question I came away with is why did this guy allow himself to get into the position he is in right now, with what appears to be nearly a dozen opportunities to speak up and change the whole direction of things? All the way up to the point the sentence was passed, he could have opened his mouth, but apparently chose not to. Why did he allow the woman, the police, the DA and finally his lawyer walk all over him without any retaliatory action? Seems like he volunteered to be in the spot he's currently in by allowing things to happen rather than making things happen.

[Maxx2]

Jet, I think he is a confused immigrant American who found out as his ordeal played out that the American justice system (Judges, Juries and prosecutors) does not use fairness or common sense. I hate to bring up my case but I will as an example. I had a spotless record. I was respected member of my community. I paid my taxes. Yet when my wife made her charges 12 days after I filed for our divorce the prosecutor never came to me to ask me my side of the story. When I met the prosecutor ( a woman) it was outside the courtroom. I was asked to plead guilty to felony rape in exchange for dropped charges. No discussion of my innocence. I was one of hundreds or thousands of men she has prosecuted. IMO there is a place in Hell reserved for her. The system is like a bulldozer burying Americans without regard to their spotless pasts. Being a good citizen means nothing. If you marry a woman from another country and she makes a complaint they believe her not you. It is so thick out there that it leaches into a place like this. You guys should be sticking up for one another. Very few men go through all that you guys went through bringing them over here and making a life for them only to starve and abuse the women they love! 9 times out of 10 it makes no sense yet the system and some of you believes in the 10th. Why? because it makes you feel good.   


Maxx   

[Ronnie]

Maxx,
There is now way we can stick up for each other as you put it.  We depend on the truth to win out.  We know a RW who has been abused by her husband, but instead of turning him in she's trying to reconcile.

The story you posted about the guy and the Dominican woman has no ring of truth to my ears.

In your situation, I think you got off track when you figured psychology majors were stable.  I didn't take me but my sophomore year to see that there was something unbalanced with nearly every psyche major I met.  In the intervening 40 years, I've seen nothing to change that impression.  Think "Cheers" 

[Jumper]

What I am doing is I am trying to anticipate what feminists and others who hate men such as yourselves (pursuers and husbands of "MOBs") will say about him.

No, actually what you are doing, maxx,
is stereotyping and painting with a huge general brush,,
 In your few  posts in this thread,
you have refered to "us guys" in some weird light..
and the entire  point of your post  seems to be that "us guys" will
not have empathy for him, or anyone.

Then you guys go off with your wives and be the white knights and go rescue them. You might be being scammed.

most of us are not being scammed ,are not going off anywhere, nor are we rescueing anyone,, they are simply our wives.
you know maxx you wont find many married members here who were scammed
for immigration.

You guys should be sticking up for one another

we should be sticking up for a new immigrant that got himself wound up with one awful and psycho woman? and in world of hurt in court?
sure-
but we dont know the story maxx,and you intentionally left out key points for a reaction. why?
the part he is a new immigrant is important..
as such he would not have friends/ family here perhaps?
 or somewhere to go to avoid the sitution or as much knowledge or experience in his new location to do so.
I'm sure she was the sweetest thing ever ,before he married her. a perfect actress no doubt!! or is there? we just dont know.
how did he meet her maxx?
a LOT of the story is left out?
but regardless we should stick up for the guy..
wether we know his story and background or not.
sorry must of us need a bit more info..

 For what its worth, how do "we" know she dint pay him to immigrate maxx?
 as a new immigrant, he might have needed a little extra cash, and  it was a good oppurtunity..? truth is,we dont know.

do i believe that? no!
 but there are a million possiblities with the limited story you told.


and Maxx, you WERE one of "us guys" -
you got burned,
i thought you were healing...but your comments don't show that..

you know ,from this thread, someone could think you were more hurt by
"us guys" not *sticking up for you* , than by Elviras demented actions?

Maxx,
exactly what are you hoping for in this thread?

proof that all RW husbands hate other men?
(it's what you posted afterall)
proof that any situatiion you bring up "us guys"  would not support the victimized man in it?

If the story is accurate , i have empathy for him.
as a new immigrant, maybe he really was in a strange place,,, and did not know what he could or should do.
but maxx ,please tell me you dont find him a completely normal man..or normal situatiuon?
a newly immigrated 140 pound librarian that allows himself to be beaten routinely while giving his wife oral sex,
is a victim,, and anyone would  have empathy,
 but he is not completely normal emotionally,and his situation does not really mirror an american man,,who has friends and family ,,places to go to get away from a bizarre  situation.. 
and thats what you are holding AM/RW immigratio nfruad marriages up to?

Mainly you are infering that normal guys get scammed every day.
yes they do.
are you going to prove that to "us guys"?

does that somehow make YOU feel better?

Why? because it makes you feel good.

then feel better!

because you are right maxx,
sometimes,, a normal guy gets conned or scammed.

but you know as well as the rest of us ,that the wolves of this world prey on the weak..and thier oppurtunities exist more often with the crippled.

older folks with less experience in cons, are more often a successful *mark*.for certain scams.

Emotionally crippled  ,terminally lonely , or deperate men ,are far more likely  to send money to someone they have never met. and are a better mark for the scammers.


That doesnt make *us guys* feel better..
or that we are somehow superior..

Maybe it is just simply recognizing the reality of life maxx,

and that  doesnt make "us guys" he-men men haters club lifetime charter members.

We can, and do empathize with those that become victims of a criminal mindset..
(like you with your ex)
the victims certainly do not deserve thier fates..
and the criminals in these cases ,know thier victims well, and that makes it more despicable.

You know better than anyonde that your ex was a looney tune Maxx, (nice photo to further prove it) and she wasnt a smart one either.and you know she did pull some wacky stuff on you in Russia, and you have admitted that if she was  smart ,she could have worked you over far worse once here than she did.

since your point of this thread is odd.. (to prove "us guys" do not have empathy?)

i have serioius question for you.

Would you ,now ,if dating a woman of any nationality, continue to date any woman that
had the bizaare behaviour your ex  sometimes displayed?
(yes before you brought her here)

Would you,now , ever get yourself in a position of being physically abused ,as the
man in your story did?

my hope, and  guess is after your experience-   no you wouldn't..!!
even though you would have empthey for a guy that does so.

you think all "us guys" ,are so much below your standards ,that we cant or dont feel the same?

That's weird Maxx.

you know , there is an alternate possibilty.
that while "us guys" do empathize,
that "us guys"  sometimes  recognize that in many of these cases the victim does have some responcibilty,and sometimes was emotionally crippled or in a position of more vulnerabilty.

it doesnt make the criminal right in anyway,
and it doesnt make the victim any less of a victim.

and it doesnt mean that the victim was exceedibly vulnerble ,or emotionally crippled, in in every case, and normal enough guys get scammed.
but your posted example , is an odd one for "proving" that to "us guys"?

You really think this woman could have pulled off that behavour with "just" anyone?
 or was this new immigrant a perfect target?


That is not looking down on him maxx, its recognizing he was the perfect target.
if you want to continue to believe it was just "luck" that guided this maniac woman to him.. go ahead. 
because it makes you feel better that just "bad luck " guided elvira to you?

if you want to continue to imply we have no empathy ,or look down on him,or you,
its your opinion, and its misguided.

The guy was in a vulnerable position,(by his newly immigrated status if nothing else)
we all are at times,
 and a shark took advantage.

Maybe our biggest sin is being jaded maxx..

[KenC]

AJ,
You expressed a lot of the things I was thinking as I read Maxx' posts here.  I guess he wants us to apologize for selecting our women wisely?  I don't know about you, but I certainly do not have any rugs hanging on my walls!

It is a shame that the DV laws are so flawed to allow women to take advantage of men as some do.  But what is a bigger shame is that a man like Maxx has sacrificed his life to his cause of playing a victim.  We ALL have some sad stories in our past, but we have moved on and lived a fulfilling life in spite of life's difficulties.  It is such a shame that Maxx is stuck in his pitiful condition for what now, 6 years?  What a waste of his life.

I do find it ironic that Maxx never accepts a bit of responsibility for his fate though.  He is like the librarian above, what in the hell were they thinking when they married these women?
KenC

[BC]

Guv'ment serves the people, but each soul is only one minuscule part of those 'people'.

All in all, there is the responsibility of choice by the individual and the responsibility of the Guv'ment to 'people' as a whole..

The two don't mix well.

Those that delve into waters outside the normal realm of the 'people' (i.e. foreign brides or grooms) should be the very last that ask Guv'ment to remedy their self created ailments.

We make our bed... prepare to lie in it.

If 99.9% of marriages were formed of international relationships I might think otherwise....

[catzenmouse]

I guess he wants us to apologize for selecting our women wisely?

Okay, I'm really, really sorry (NOT!) that I'm married to a fantastic woman! Hope that helps... 

I don't know about you, but I certainly do not have any rugs hanging on my walls!

Darn it! I don't pass the rug wall hanging test either. Does a Russian flag count? Or a map of Russia? Maybe for a couple of sympathy points? 

On Topic:
While there are always exceptions I believe that most victims of this type of situation (similar to those who end up sending money to scammers) create the majority of their own problems from delusional thinking and behaviors.

Ken