going back yet again

[Goombah]

I'm not quite as old as Annon, but close (soon to be 47).  I set a lower limit of 23 when I started looking when I was late into 45.  However, I'm real happy that Evia is 33 - only 13 years difference.  Yeah, as an older man, it would be great to have a younger woman, but I feared what would happen when I was 70 - a 23 year old now would only be 46 then.  Somewhere around there this would become quite the strain on her.  Now, for me, Evia will be 57, so much closer - and feeling some of the age that she will have obtained, be able to relate to her older husband better.

Kevin

[KenC]

Anno,

Just a few comments here.  On the age difference:  Bruse hit upon something when he said that a young RW will show her immaturity more after she arrives here.  Yes and no, from my experience with my wife Lena.  (She was 21 when she arrived here.) She handled my snooty country club and big out of town business meetings with the maturity of a woman twice her age.  She was fearless, poised and left many an associate shaking their heads with amazment of how such a young woman could be so sophisticated. (Her conversation with the executive VP of a major retail chain on the subject of WWII will forever be ingrained in my memory and I am sure his too)

 But there have also been times when she acted like a 21 year old woman that had never lived outside her parent's home.  The transformation into a married woman that was head of a household is still an adjustment that is necessary.  I can honestly say that at times I did have flashbacks to my first wife going through the same adjustment.  Of course, then I was also that young and making my own adjustments too.  With Lena, it was much easier because I already knew the drill.

On your concerns over "J's" butt.  The more you love her the less this will concern you.  I don't know if this trait is common with many RW, but I have never known a woman that had as much control over her body features as my wife.  Lena is amazing when it comes to this area.  Gain a few lbs?  She will literally work her ass off for the next few days to remove it.  Butt getting a bit flabby?  Her exercise routine is adjusted to tone it up tight again.  She is very proud of her body and has every right to be as she works damn hard to maintain it.

KenC

[acrzybear]

 this is funny and kind of on topic
 
A 90-year-old man went to his doctor for his annual
check-up.

The doctor asks him how he's feeling. The 90-year-old
says, "I've never felt better. I now have a 20 year-old bride who is
pregnant with my child. What do you think about that?"

The doctor considers his question for a minute and
then begins. "I have an older friend, much like you, who is an avid trophy
hunter and never misses a season. One day, when he was going out
hunting, he was in a bit of a hurry and accidentally picked up his walking cane
instead of his gun. When he got to the creek, he saw a prime beaver
sitting beside the stream of water. He raised his cane and went 'bang,
bang'. Suddenly, two shots rang out and the beaver fell over
dead. What do you think of that?"

The 90-year-old said, "I'd say somebody else pumped a
couple of rounds into that beaver."

The doctor replied, "My point exactly..."

[Bruce]

"With Lena, it was much easier because I already knew the drill."

Just a side note I hope and not taking away from Anno's thread but Ken, what do you mean by "the drill."  If I knew some of what goes into it, it would probably help me alot because my wife is fairly young at 26 and is away from her home for the first time and I know is going through growing pains herself to some extent. 

[Bruno]

You really are one of the exceptions to the age advice rule.  Remember, its biologic and not chronologic age that really counts.  Your 50 is probably an average guys 30, so in my mind you and "J" are solidly in the ballpark.

23-50 .... :? ... same if Anono is in good shape now, he cannot stay young always... and the dead is always waiting us at the corner...

By example, if you begin make children when she is 25 yo... a beautiful son... what will be the situation when he will be 18 yo... she will be 43 and you will be 70 yo... do you think that you will be in shape at 70 yo for make some sport with your son like basket, soccer,... maybe you will be not more from these world and she will be a young widow with child...

Is it not egoistic to try marry so young woman... not think about her future and the futur of children... never forget that nobody is immortal... that nobody stay young...

I know that marriage with  big age difference can be successful but what in 20 year... in these time, it is not more a wife who is needed but a nurse

 

 

[KenC]

"With Lena, it was much easier because I already knew the drill."

Just a side note I hope and not taking away from Anno's thread but Ken, what do you mean by "the drill."  If I knew some of what goes into it, it would probably help me alot because my wife is fairly young at 26 and is away from her home for the first time and I know is going through growing pains herself to some extent. 

What I meant was that I had already experienced going from single to married and all that goes with it.  What goes into building a strong marital unit instead of two independent people.

KenC

[Bruce]

ken, thanks for the clarification - I see what you mean.  Bruno - good point on the future for all of us that end up marrying that large an age difference.  Thats why it makes sense for us old guys to make sure we put our wives through nursing school!

[anono]

hi bruno and bear, thanks for bringing a smile to my face  ;-)

bruce, kenc, goombah (your lady looks wonderful in your avatar), thank you for your comments.

regarding what bruce said about age. my friend who just arrived here today told me "robert, the only thing you have in common with the old guys that these women are rejecting is your age". i think the fact that i am still an immature 18 year old in my mind balances out that i live in a nearly 50 yr old body... ;-)

kenc, i think we are in a very similar situation (you are ahead of me but i think you know what i mean).

bruno, i agree with you and a woman's heart is going to trump her ass any day. i think i was thinking it might be possible to find such a heart in a body with the smaller ass i prefer, but i also knew that if i had the experiences i am having now, "j" would just rise to the top as she has done since i first met her. i will post what i wrote offline but will say it here now; i suspect, if things continue to go the way they are, i have found the woman for me. i am still going to take my time. i think i addressed in in the following:

just returned "home" from a meeting with dasha. those of you who have followed my trip reports from last year know she is an old girlfriend. when i was here earlier in the summer, i met with her when i was with "j". i have photos with dasha on my left and "j" on my right.

she is with an agency but she says she does not want to meet men this way. she did say she met with a man from chicago. he was born in ukraine but moved to chicago. he met with her a month or so ago.

dasha tells me he asked her if she was like most of the ladies, who want money. she relates that he asked because he is getting tired of meeting ladies who only want money. she estimates that only 1% of the women at the agencies are sincere. this is coming from a lady who grew up in kherson and now lives in kiev in part because of me.

she also related how she went to a social. she tells me there were 50 ladies and 10 men. the men on one side of the room, the ladies on the other. she said it was like "horses", as if it was a livestock show.

now this is going to appear to be another plug for jack bragg. jack does the party thing the right way. there is interaction with the ladies and it is not like dasha described this social. at least there is some dignity to the way jack does his parties. the men get to meet most, if not all, the ladies and everyone has a good time. they play party games and everyone gets in on the fun. dasha says she will never do the socials again.

so here it is, right from a lady living here in kiev. it is all about money. she came just short of calling them prostitutes. i meet a lady who said she was not able to ask for money. this lady told me a story about this "good boy" who she says was a friend of hers. he apparently was killed in an accident. she says this man would give her money (for nothing in return she tries to explain)..yea, right. anyway, i filled in the blanks. turns out if i wanted sex with her, all i would have to do is give her money. sounds like prostitution, right?

so the long and short of it is, however the environment was created, the good looking women of kiev at the agencies in the most part are there just to see what they can get from the men. this of course is spreading to the other cities.

now maybe some of you might understand why i was so "insulting" as our esteemed administrator claims. the guys who do this (spending money so freely) need more than to be insulted. they need to be horse whipped and kept out of ukraine.

i am sure the men who do this are not entirely to blame. part of it is the culture, part of it is the ukrainian men who treat these women like objects. all we can do is think the worst and hope for the best. but the men (walking wallets...lol) who come here spending your money so freely on these women, you are not only being looked upon as a fool but you are ruining it for the rest of us. the sad thing is the damage has already been done.

my advice to sincere men looking for a good wife, forget kiev. unless you are lucky enough to find a dasha or one of the other "one percenters" (that is how the hells angels describe themselves...lol) in kiev, look elsewhere.

even the ladies in the smaller cities have learned from their kiev sisters. they have also experienced the same thing in dneper, zaporojhe, kherson, kharkov, odessa..every city in ukraine. it is getting to the point that we are going to have to start looking in the small villages.

i feel fortunate to have found a beauty like "j" with what appears to be a heart of gold. her english teacher told me other men are calling her. she is refusing to meet with them thinking only of me (as her teacher says). i plan on coming back here to ukraine over christmas and new years and spend it with "j". then in the spring i will return for her birthday with mine to follow 13 days later. i will file a k-1 and bring her to the states for a visit. if things continue to be the fairy tale it is becoming to look like in comparison to the reality of what is happening over here, i will feel fortunate i found a good lady before it is too late.

to those of you still looking, think the worst, keep your eyes open, nothing is the way it appears. so many people are in on it with the women, you do not know who to trust.

one agency i went to, once they heard my friend tell them about his experience with the woman wanting $400 shoes, suddenly the women do not want to meet with us. they say we are too old or in the case of my friend, they did not like his photos. our bet is the word got out that we are not walking wallets and there now is no incentive to meet with us. had we walked in and told them we were rich men looking for a wife, i bet there would be a line of ladies wanting to meet both of us.

buyer beware.

 

[anono]

bruce, i think you might be right about russia and some of the other CIS countries. it may have reached the point here in ukraine that this is simply not a good destination for those looking for a wife. if you want to hook up with working girls, they are everywhere and i mean everywhere.

ukraine overall is fast becoming like kiev. it doesn't really matter where they come from, if it is a city in ukraine and they are smokinghotkovas, odds are she is out to see what she can get.

even if you find a relatively "good" lady, many times as the "face-time" posts before, all it takes is time to get to the truth or something close to it.

as i think bruce said about motivations,  i am not completely sold on "j". these ladies are great actresses. i keep my eyes wide open and look for all the "little things" and so far, unless it is a massive cover-up and a lot of people are in "cahoots" with her, she appears to be the real deal..notice how i am careful and use words like "apparently" and "appears" and so on. i am a huge skeptic of most everything and need to be convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt. this is one reason i am taking my time. sooner or later something will happen and the truth will come out, if indeed there is something going on that i am not aware of.

i said "k-1" in the post above, but i will look into the tourist visa and do it that way if it is possible and not any more difficult than the k-1. my understanding of the k-1 is that you can do it more than once on the same lady. i do know my first girlfriend (svetlana from zap) came over on a k-1 (with another man), went back because it did not work out and she was back in the states on yet another k-1 within six months. it was multiple k-1's with different men so i do not know if it would be the same if it was the same man.

"j" has not only done all the "right" things but all the peripheral things i see and everything anyone has said about her all fits into place. as far as i can see, she is for real and as bruce puts it. likes me for me. everything is indicative of this so far.

[Bruno]

Bruno - good point on the future for all of us that end up marrying that large an age difference.

Bruce, i am only now able to make this point over the difference of age, after my first russian marriage... i have marry a woman with a young child... a child bring a lot of pleasure in the life but ask a lot of energy...

Now, i am always searching a woman without child and wish make my own one... but when i wil reach 40 yo, i go change my strategie and search woman who have already a child...

It is only a personal choice but i wish that when i will be retired, between 60 and 65 yo, the child are grow up...

My first experience with RW was not only a bad experience, i have learn a lot over myself and the life... some people call this maturity...

I don't know the plan of Anono for the futur but a young woman, soon or late, will wish have some child, it is a natural call... and it is something to analyse when you wish build a long term relation...

 

[Goombah]

Anono -

Part of the K-1 visa application is you stating your intent to marry during her stay.  If your application appears to be anything other than an application to get her over to marry her (like to just visit), your going to have a hard time getting it approved.  

Yes, you can apply for the same woman a second time, but expect to have to certify why you think it will work the 2nd time when it didn't the first.

Tourist Visa's are VERY hard for young, child-bearing age ladies.  Its possible if she has a good job, a letter from her employer stating her job will be waiting for her when she returns, owns property (like an apartment), and has a child that is staying behind.  I'm told if any of the three are not true, a tourist Visa will be likely be denied.  If it was easy to get them over on visits, most of us would be doing that first! <smile>

I believe I read the reason they make it so hard is historical:  In the past, a more liberal policy resulted in a large percentage (70%) staying illegally.

Of course, there are student visas and work visas - the first requires acceptance at a University and sufficient funds to pay for room and board.  The second generally requires a speciality skill that can't be found locally (thats the H1B).  I have read that woman in their 20s can be brought over as a governess in exchange for room and board if you have young kids - its a cultural exchange type program.  Other types of VISAs also exist, but to use them for our purposes is basically, well, illegal - with the lady paying the cost (a multi-year ban from entering the USA) if caught.

Kevin

[anono]

hi kevin, yes, i thought that was the case about tourist visas. i keep hearing something has changed to make it easier but i do not know of anyone doing it and it being easy. i also think you are right about the k-1 the second time around. i did a k-1 with dasha and it was easy to obtain. of course, we dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's, including the statements that we intend to marry. of course, we did not follow through and i never brought her to the usa. i did it thinking it took longer than it did (three months to the day after application it was granted) and i told dasha we were doing it in case everything worked out which it did not.

are you the guy with the salt-water aquarium? like HUGE? if so, i think we talked on the phone. my small village (edwardsville) is just across the river from you. we need to meet when i get back to the states. i will be wanting to get some miles on my k1200s when i get back and i'll be glad to ride over if the weather is nice. mom says it was 90 just a few days ago.

bruno, yes, "j" wants a child. at first she said four or five years. magically, that number went to maybe in two years. i asked why she wanted a child and she looked at me with a slight puzzled look and said "because i love you".

i realize a lady her age is going to want a child. speaking for myself i could do without a rugrat at my age but what the hell, i never thought i would get married either. in fact, marriage only came into the equation once i learned in order to keep one of these ladies in the states you have to marry them. DANG! always a hitch.

i have a 15yr old daughter that i have never seen, no thanks to her mother, a complete beatch. a pathological liar. i stopped legal proceedings (i wanted half custody or at least visitation rights and offered child support. my attorney brother told me i was the only man in madison county who was fighting to see my child. everyone else was trying to get out of it. (told you i wasn't the average guy, dan).

i have been thinking of living here in ukraine. the situation in the usa, thanks to the current administration and the increasing threat of terrorism are just a couple reasons. america is becoming less and less of the great nation it once was and it is only a matter of time before some terrorist sets off a nuclear device and then all hell is going to break out. "if tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy"- james madison. this is exactly what is going on under "president" bush. it will be war in the usa. the borders will close and the government will become our enemy (well, it already is on many levels). they ask the military if they would fire on civilians if ordered to do so..think they are asking just for fun?

my first ukrainian girlfriend was 33 and has a daughter. a good friend told me don't do it. one of the reasons why is (appropriately) children always come first. i am sure if my mother had to chose between us kids and my stepdad (father of three of my siblings, it would be us over him any day. if a child is going to come before me, i want he or she to be my own child, not that of some bum in ukraine.

i changed my own little (now 39) sisters diapers when my mother had her hands full with six other kids, it can't have changed that much....

 

[Goombah]

Yep, thats me:  http://www.seaplace.org/gallery  5,000 gallons of saltwater, fish, and corals.

Getting a little cool for bike riding, about 40 at night and 65 high in the day, but your always welcome.

Consider yourself blessed if you managed to get a K-1 in 3 months - submission to Interview looks like a bit over 8 for Evia and I.  

Kevin

[Admin]

now maybe some of you might understand why i was so "insulting" as our esteemed administrator claims.

Your "esteemed administrator" just finished spending 7 hours in depositions TODAY - following a similar amount earlier in the week - and this is AFTER spending 3 sleepless nights preparing expert witnesses and for deposition AND for a 5-day hearing in less than 10 days.

And this was on only ONE of three currently contested legal matters. One of the others ALSO had a hearing today - but it was relatively uneventful.

Not to mention, I learned that in one case, my adversary has learned of this board and is accusing Olya and I of being (a direct quote) "internet pimps." [No doubt he is reading this and will find SOMETHING in what I am writing to make some sort of issue over]

So you see - I just *may* have a tiny bit of justification for being a bit grumpy lately - and for the foreseeable future.

That - and the fact that you are clearly an arrogant narcissist.

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Come on now anono - I was ONLY kidding. You can let your blood pressure come out of the stratosphere now. :cool:

Cheers!

- Dan

[anono]

hi kevin, i am of the understanding i got lucky. someone else did the same through the same kansas branch of the INS and it took longer. i dunno, i just did everything they asked. did it without a lawyer too. i can read.

i took a look at your site the first time around and all i can say is WOW. i had a few aquariums when i was a kid, i think one was 10 gallons and maybe one a little more, hell, it's been 30 years..  even had a small 5 gallon tank so ......  i would like to meet you and see this...  had all the right stuff, the under gravel filter system and all that.

[anono]

lol  ..at first i went WHAT!!??? here we go again!  ok dan, i'll lighten up on you ;-)

i videotape depositions for a living so i know ALL ABOUT what you are going through.

i have seen it all in 20 years in the lawsuit capital of the usa. "president" bush even singled madison county out for the "malpractice crisis" in america, what a bunch of hogwash that is...  insurance companies using it as an excuse to drive up premiums..i won't go into it here and nobody better try and tell me any differently because i will sic rex carr on your ass and he will straighten you out as to what is really going on. the facts (if anyone ever bothers to look) are not what the insurance companies want you to know...

you have my sympathy and condolences. if you lived anywhere near madison or st. clair counties i could hook you up with some of the best trial lawyers in the usa.

no one would wish this on a mortal enemy....  if this guy ever comes at you for this board, i'll be happy to testi...wait a second... dan who?  ;-)

[catzenmouse]

anono wrote:

no one would wish this on a mortal enemy....  if this guy ever comes at you for this board, i'll be happy to testi...wait a second... dan who?  ;-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
okay, now your starting to sound like the administration here...

I've been wondering how I would be able to make a living in the FSU if it comes to the point where Elena just can't take it anymore. Any suggestions are more than welcome!

Ken

[anono]

hi ken, if rule of law extended to ukraine, this place would be a million lawsuits waiting to happen. if they had civil cases like we do in the usa, i would have a great business here. unfortunately, it is only a good thing in the usa..otherwise i would set up shop here in no time...

[facetrock]

Anno, very good post.  Like you I do get a kick out of the cheerleaders on this board and others. I think the window is closed for the man thats a 5 getting a 7 or 8 in almost all parts of the FSU. You can get one but it will be for all the wrong reasons. If  I was going to try to find a wife in the big 3 citys( Kiev, Moscow, St. Pete) I would try to stay for at least 3 months per trip. It would take that long to filter out the trash. To be realistic, I think a decent guy can get someone 10 years younger that is in good shape. There are exceptions however. The reputaion of American men has gone down the toilet. I dont always think that is a bad thing though. If you do meet a good woman you will have to prove to her you are a good man, nothing wrong with that. The days of waving your passport and wallet around for a good woman are long gone. I dont think they ever really existed. But there are still plenty of desperate men that will do just that.

There will always be sex tourists. It just makes it harder for the decent guy to convince a woman he is not one. I am still convinced that 9 out of 10 guys that make the trip are social losers.

[anono]

hi face, thanks for your comments. yep, the reputation of american men is going down the toilet. if jim naseuam ever posts his experience with his new lady, he will be better able to tell you about his situation. briefly, his lady had met so many loser AM that she was beginning to be very skeptical she would ever meet one worth dating. then jim came along and he is not only a great guy, he knows how to work the women. i could only wish i could do so well. i also want to add, if you work out and stay in good shape, it is a huge bonus. i work out but it does not show like it does on jim. he has broad shoulders and these women like men who they feel can protect them, literally and figuratively. it helps explain why i see so many "9"s with a skin head with nothing more than a barrel chest going for him.

there is a three part article in the kyiv post about the sex tourism here. the second part is out now. one woman recounts how one guy demanded "speak english!" when she answered the phone in russian. i am sure only an american would have such an attitude, and i'll bet he's a republican ;-) it reeks of ignorance.

there are good women here, it is just more difficult to find them. i take any motivation of living in the usa out of the equation by telling the ladies i live in ukraine and will be living here in the future once i sell my property back home. right now this looks like the course i will take...

[facetrock]

Not a bad idea anno. I cant impress my fiancee with money. She owns one flat, has two others that her name is on with her parents and will inherit one from her 75 year old uncle. She works for an American company, part time and could make 500 bucks full time when she is done with her PHD next spring. So within 10 years she will own 4 flats, 1 dacha and have a very high paying job by their standards. She doesnt need me to take her to America for a good life. Hers will be just fine where she is at. I put her picture up in my journal on the " other board' if you would like to see her.

[Photo Guy]

A nice face and plenty of possessions are excellent status symbols. Nothing new under the sun.

[philb]

I personally think the real issue is the agencies.  There are still a lot of beautiful sincere women in Kiev, Moscow, or any of the cities in the FSU.  Things are definitely changing though.

There was a time when most people in the FSU did not have a computer in their home or access to the internet.  That is not the case any more, at least not in the cities.  Even if people don't have a computer in their home they almost always have access to one. 

Frankly most agencies seem to "market" their services in a way that alot of women would find degrading.  So tell me what type of women are they going to attract?  Then there is the issue of the types of guys this marketing is designed to attract.  For the most part they want to attract the guys that will buy their products with out question.  In other words losers.  I think that this why American men have such a poor reputation with women who are listed with agencies.

I am speaking in generalities of course and there still are decent women listed with agencies and decent men who use the agencies to meet women (and for that matter decent agencies).  But, for the most part I think that the numbers of quality people utilizing agencies are shrinking particularly in the bigger cities and agencies in general have always tended towards the sleezy side of things.

Bottom line, there are still alot of great women in the FSU who would be willing to meet a decent guy from the USA.  You just can't buy their address on an agency web site.

 

[Bruno]

Bottom line, there are still alot of great women in the FSU who would be willing to meet a decent guy from the USA.  You just can't buy their address on an agency web site. 

Try the way of local newspaper... it is free and you can reach women who are not in agency... some example for Ukraine :

* http://www.aviso.com.ua/aviso/eng/place.asp ( 174000 copy week )

* http://www.freead.org/freead/ ( 26 newspaper / 603000 copy )

I go use these method for my next hunting... one ads and maybe 300000 thousand women who read it... i hope some interesting reaction... when i have try these method in 1996, i have receive during 3 month around 6 post letter/day...

 

[KenC]

Good post, Philb and an interesting topic, Anno.

I am speaking in generalities of course and there still are decent women listed with agencies and decent men who use the agencies to meet women (and for that matter decent agencies).  But, for the most part I think that the numbers of quality people utilizing agencies are shrinking particularly in the bigger cities and agencies in general have always tended towards the sleezy side of things.

Bottom line, there are still alot of great women in the FSU who would be willing to meet a decent guy from the USA.  You just can't buy their address on an agency web site.

 

Going back to 1998 with my experiences, I would say that maybe 10% of the guys going over had their proverbial act together.  My wife has said many times that less than 10% of the women listed with her agency were sincere (and that was with a very reputable agency).  It is no wonder that we have heard so many horror stories when 90% of the men have no clue are seeking women from a group where 90% of them have an agenda.  The agencies were just leading the sheep to slaughter.

KenC