"Trustworthy" Agencies?

[TripWire]

Is there a list of agencies here (that there is general consensus on) that actually says, "yes, you can trust these agencies?" 

If so, please point me to it. 
Thanks.

[Gator]

It depends upon what you want the agency to do.

If you want them to just open the door so that you can meet a few sincere RW, then there are many agencies. 

If you are looking for an agency to tell you which RW to marry, I would trust none of them.

Best to use an agency that allows you to get into direct contact with a RW ASAP.

[Faux Pas]

Is there a list of agencies here (that there is general consensus on) that actually says, "yes, you can trust these agencies?" 

If so, please point me to it. 
Thanks.

Hi TripWire

I suppose that might depend on your definition of "good". Unfortunately not. Sure there's lists all over the place but they are usually approved one way or another by some kind of agreement which leaves them suspect or not. There are good agencies but even with those they are intent on getting inside your pocket and you can be approached by a scammer at any agency. Some agencies are thinly veiled scammers themselves.

It's really all subjective. Some guys including myself will tell you to stay away from certain ones, and at the same time others will boast of their success from those same agencies. The best agency/intro website I saw was Elena's Models. Some I am sure will disagree with that but for me it was reasonably priced, the women are real and you can get all contact info from them without impediment.

[TripWire]

Thanks.  Think I'll at least check out Elena's Models.

[Gator]

Tripwire,

Elena's Models is excellent for directly contacting RW.  Same with Bride.ru and Free Personals.  There are some obvious scammers listed with these agencies.  However, because they are obvious, you can avoid them.

With such agencies, you will have to do all the travel arrangements and meeting schedule yourself.  Up to it?

[Admin]

Is there a list of agencies here (that there is general consensus on) that actually says, "yes, you can trust these agencies?" 

If so, please point me to it. 
Thanks.

TripWire,

Check out the forum sponsor, www.CertifiedMarriageAgencies.org. While there, be sure to read the Agency Code of Ethics that all certified agencies are required to endorse.

There continue to be only a small number of agencies that have formally endorsed the ACoE - and we believe that is because the others are unwilling to make a firm commitment to ethical behaviors - sadly. Review the ACoE and determine if you want to conduct business with anyone unwilling to subscribe to those tenets.

Good luck!

- Dan

[Faux Pas]

Trip

It just so happens a member has posted his personal review of some agencies in Ukraine at http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7755.msg0;topicseen#new

Check it, but I caution that it is just another POV. Good Luck

[Kevin]

I have a list of agencies that I recommend at www.honestmarriageagencies.com .

kevin

[Admin]

I have a list of agencies that I recommend at www.honestmarriageagencies.com .

kevin

And containing a site whose owner:

* Encourages WM to lie to RW
* Provides specific advice to "circumvent" US laws

Among other things equally nefarious.

- Dan

[Kevin]

Dan
You refuse to tell me what agency this is? How can I investigate such claims against any agency listed if you post an agency is dishonest without naming it.  I have seen no proof to support your claim.

Kevin

[Admin]

Dan
You refuse to tell me what agency this is? How can I investigate such claims against any agency listed if you post an agency is dishonest without naming it.  I have seen no proof to support your claim.

Kevin

>>I have seen no proof to support your claim.<<

Yes you have. You have seen exact quotations. I have not bothered providing you the specific site until you state what actions you will take. If you are not going to take any action - why should I bother to do anything more than alert you - as I have?

Kevin - I *know* what I *know* - and anyone who has been here at RWD for any time knows how exceptionally rare it is for me to make an accusation - ANY accusation. I simply will not do it without hard facts - and the FACTS are that you have a site on your website where the owner:

* Encourages western men to lie to RW, and
* Provides instruction to American guys to circumvent US law.

Those are FACTS Kevin.

I am NOT going to give that site any 'air' time - and if you are not going to confirm explicit actions to be taken when I provide you hard evidence, I am not going to waste my time any further. Guys can contact me off-line if they want to know more.

In the meantime, I think it is important for guys to know that you have a corrupt site among your listings.

- Dan

[Kevin]

Dan
You just sent me text that I can not verify.  In law enforcement we call it Heresay. If you are not willing to post the name of the agency.  I can not research any such claim. 

Your claim is I have someone listed on 'Honest Marriage Agencies' site who:

* Openly flaunts US laws, and advises US citizens how to "circumvent" US law.
* Promotes illegal smuggling.
* Openly encourages men to lie to RW.
* Sells bootleg CD's in violation of international law.

I would like to see such links to this information posted by an agency owner.

Post the proof and then I will respond.

[Admin]

Dan
You just sent me text that I can not verify.  In law enforcement we call it Heresay. If you are not willing to post the name of the agency.  I can not research any such claim. 

Your claim is I have someone listed on 'Honest Marriage Agencies' site who:

* Openly flaunts US laws, and advises US citizens how to "circumvent" US law.
* Promotes illegal smuggling.
* Openly encourages men to lie to RW.
* Sells bootleg CD's in violation of international law.

I would like to see such links to this information posted by an agency owner.

Post the proof and then I will respond.

Mine is not a "claim" Kevin - it is FACT.

Tell me exactly how you will respond when you see the evidence, and I will decide if it is worth providing it.

Absent a productive outcome, it is not worth my time to provide you the site name. And BTW - you already have enough information to find it for yourself, if you are so inclined.

- Dan

[Kevin]

Dan
Facts are not facts until verified.
I do not know how I will respond until I see the facts myself. Then you can judge me on how I respond.

Otherwise lets just drop the claim. It is a waste of time without verified facts.

Kevin

[Admin]

Dan
Facts are not facts until verified.
I do not know how I will respond until I see the facts myself. Then you can judge me on how I respond.

Otherwise lets just drop the claim. It is a waste of time without verified facts.

Kevin

Kevin,

They are FULLY-verified. By me. Hard, irrefutable, incontrovertible evidence. As stated up-thread, I *know* what I *know* - in this case, at least.

I stated before, there is no "claim" - it is a FULLY-VERIFIED *FACT* that your "Honest Marriage Agencies" site contains a link in which the owner:

* Encourages western men to lie to RW, and
* Provides instruction to American guys to circumvent US law.

Kevin, I think you are a guy who wants to 'do the right thing.' It gives me no pleasure to point out this obvious inconsistency - but your promotion of your Honest Marriage Agencies site led me to take a look - and I discovered something that surprised me. I took it to you off-line, and you refused to state your position (thanks for sharing some of my PM to you in the open forum, BTW). Your lack of commitment to rooting out and ridding your site of such corrupt behavior leaves me baffled.

How can you justify that a site you promote as containing "Honest" references - contains one that encourages lying and violation of law?!? Kevin, that sort of situational ethics is unconscionable. You are either fully in, or not, insofar as promoting honesty and ethics. There is no middle ground.

- Dan

[Kevin]

Dan
My site has many links.
Are you referring to a Agency, a blacklist site or a competitor forum?  I treat each group differently.

As far as taking the private conversation public. Backup the thread. You brought it public by posting I had a link on my site to a (unknown) that you do not believe should be linked.  I responded to your posting.

Having a verified secret is great for you. But it does me know good.
I need to know how someone encourage AM to lie. Are we talking about saying your 40 when you are 41?
I need to know the instructions on how to avoid the IMBRA law?
I need to know what copyright items are being sold.

This better not be a conflict between you and another forum owner that I just heard about.  I do not want to be in the middle of another personal conflict again.

[Admin]

Dan
My site has many links.
Are you referring to a Agency, a blacklist site or a competitor forum?  I treat each group differently.

As far as taking the private conversation public. Backup the thread. You brought it public by posting I had a link on my site to a (unknown) that you do not believe should be linked.  I responded to your posting.

Having a verified secret is great for you. But it does me know good.
I need to know how someone encourage AM to lie. Are we talking about saying your 40 when you are 41?
I need to know the instructions on how to avoid the IMBRA law?
I need to know what copyright items are being sold.

This better not be a conflict between you and another forum owner that I just heard about.  I do not want to be in the middle of another personal conflict again.

Kevin,

You came to RWD and promoted your Honest Marriage Agencies site. I *know* that the owner of one of the sites there engages in the behaviors I cited. Is it your contention that I should remain silent when I *know* that one of those sites you claim is "Honest" is, in fact, corrupt?!?

I acknowledge that you have the right to post whatever you wish at your sites. No dispute. I would not have initiated a topic here, even to address the corrupt site you have listed at Honest Marriage Agencies. When you visit RWD and promote your site - and it contains a link to a site I know is corrupt - that is an entirely DIFFERENT matter. Surely you see that. The first time you did it recently, I took the issue off-line with you. The second time you did it, I addressed it in the open forum.

As for whether or not I have conflicts with other site owners - sure, I am regularly faced with feeble and pathetic 'noise' from jealous, petty owners of a couple of insignificant sites - but that does not alter the FACTS one iota.

Everything I have stated is the absolute truth - based entirely on *FACT*. Do you dispute it?

- Dan

[msmoby_ru]

Kevin,

They are FULLY-verified. By me. Hard, irrefutable, incontrovertible evidence. As stated up-thread, I *know* what I *know* - in this case, at least.

I stated before, there is no "claim" - it is a FULLY-VERIFIED *FACT* that your "Honest Marriage Agencies" site contains a link in which the owner:

* Encourages western men to lie to RW, and
* Provides instruction to American guys to circumvent US law.

Kevin, I think you are a guy who wants to 'do the right thing.' It gives me no pleasure to point out this obvious inconsistency - but your promotion of your Honest Marriage Agencies site led me to take a look - and I discovered something that surprised me. I took it to you off-line, and you refused to state your position (thanks for sharing some of my PM to you in the open forum, BTW). Your lack of commitment to rooting out and ridding your site of such corrupt behavior leaves me baffled.

How can you justify that a site you promote as containing "Honest" references - contains one that encourages lying and violation of law?!? Kevin, that sort of situational ethics is unconscionable. You are either fully in, or not, insofar as promoting honesty and ethics. There is no middle ground.

- Dan

As you have made such a song and dance about this agency, don't you think you should be warning other members ?

[Jack]

As you have made such a song and dance about this agency, don't you think you should be warning other members ?

Yea, same here. I would like to know who this bad agency is?

Hey!  Ben Armen is aware of a lot of bad agencies, maybe he knows.  Nawww, never mind, he's not telling either last I recall.

[Admin]

As you have made such a song and dance about this agency, don't you think you should be warning other members ?

There is no "song and dance." There is merely a statement of FACT. Nothing more.

- Dan

[CCowboy]

Kevin,

I have a question for you.  I have made a number of trips to Kiev, Kharkov, and Sevastopol.  Do you think it is honest for an agency to have photos and imformation on profiles that are not updated for 4+ years.  There are women on your clone sites in Kiev and Kharkov who I personally met or saw their profiles 4 1/2 + years ago.  The exact same photos are posted.  Do you think it is honest to charge a man $50 for outdated information?  This is an ongoing problem with the most "reputable" agencies.  If a girl was 20 when she joined an agency and now 24, it's not such a big deal...except she's probably not serious, playing games, and a professional dater.  But when a 44 year old women posts photos when she was much slimmer in her late 30's, that is a big problem.  When I've talked to agencies about this: "those are the photos she gave us".  For the most part, I found agencies main interest is selling correspondence, gifts, and the meeting with very little regards for providing honest information.  Even with "so called" honest agencies, I found them to be anything but honest.  Maybe they aren't the obvious scamming agencies we all know about, but they are not honest the way a man expects.  Robert     

[Kevin]

Robert
It is my policy to attempt to update photo's at least once a year. But in reality it is difficult with so many ladies who do not get letters or require a long trip to the office. So my response a honest agency should attempt to update all photo's once a year and should offer a free service or updating any lady photo on request that is older then one year.  If you are writing such a lady and the agency refused to update her photo once requested. I would be wary.

If you have a lady on one of the agencies listed on my sites or sites I recommend. Please email me off list and I'll be glad to make the request for you.

currently even on my site I have a few ladies who photo's are older then 4 years, but have not had any activity in 4-5 years.  As soon as they get a letter or come into the office for any reason I do update them.

thanks
Kevin

[Kevin]

There is no "song and dance." There is merely a statement of FACT. Nothing more.

- Dan

Dan
I get tired of these Games very quickly. Either support your facts or stop posting about it.  You made the claim. Now support it.
So me the links to where on the web I can verify your claims. Then judge me along with everyone else on How I respond to such claims.  That is the code of Ethics that I folllow. I require the same when men complain about ladies. I want to see the facts first. I don't blacklist without cause.

Kevin

[msmoby_ru]

There is no "song and dance." There is merely a statement of FACT. Nothing more.

- Dan

Hi Dan.. So as it is a FACT ( you know this for certain ) that this agency is disreputable, why can't you tell us WHO they are?  Why allow members, who come here for help and advice, to be "kept in the dark" ?

[Shadow]

currently even on my site I have a few ladies who photo's are older then 4 years, but have not had any activity in 4-5 years.  As soon as they get a letter or come into the office for any reason I do update them.

If the ladies have not updated their photo or had any activity for 4-5 years, why would you keep them on your site ? Should you not at least once a year (and IMHO more often) check if the ladies are still interested in your service ? It seems like doing both the men and the ladies a disservice.