Risky Business

[msmoby_ru]

Mark,
You will get no further responses from me.  You're just not worth the time or effort.
KenC

OK Ken, I'm a "basket case"..  Whatever.. there'll be a next time ...

[msmoby_ru]

Why not write something useful, instead?

I have no dogs in this fight and the main issues were long forgotten, but I for one have grown weary of your intractibility, veiled insults, and constant tit-for-tat postings.

 I'm really, sorry you feel that way, but I felt I did write something useful... something counter to what Gator and KenC think.. it wasn't a WMVM v WOVO tirade - and whilst it is obviously BORING to you - I ended up repsonding to their posts, rather than  Maxx's!

You have an enormous amount of knowledge to contribute here but it seems your arrogance and desire to fight over the most insignificant details renders thread after thread useless. Save everyone the grief and take it to PM, please.

Well, I aready tried pm with Gator before... and he then told everyone here I wasn't responding when I had twice  ... 

You saw it as "insignificant" ... may be others  - the majority did, too, but *I didn't ...

But hey , thanks for the "heads up" ..

[msmoby_ru]

groovlstk,
 

You are correct.  Besides, it is demonstrating one of Albert Einstein's most brilliant definitions.

Maxx, no more interruptions by me. And I do want to hear about your investigation of the agency.

As, always - Gator the "diplomat" - except we both know pms to you make no difference you just bring them out in the open, again ..

OK guys.. If either KenC or Gator make another comment that *I* feel needs commenting on - I'll say it in another thread..

[Maxx2]

On this subject of 'Risk' I posted this else where

I got this yesterday from a guy I know

"In the end, the judge granted the divorce to me, although it was ruled as voluntary separation. I felt pretty good at this point since the judge dismissed every claim of abuse, false accusation, and lie told by my wife. The judge even accepted the internet evidence I had submitted which showed my wife visiting dating sites. She considered it credible, despite the objections of my wife's lawyer. I was even able to describe the immigration fraud ploy employed by my wife and how it relates to marriage and a green card. Unfortunately, I may have won the battle, but I feel as though I lost the war. I was ordered to pay my ex-wife $1100 per month for one year. I was also ordered to pay attorney's fees to her lawyer in the amount of $7500. I think I will drop by his office once a month and drop off $50 in pennies until he is paid off!
 
How can I win the divorce case, yet still be ordered to pay $20,700???
 
All in all, my 15 month marriage will cost me $57,000, with about $31,000 of that directly benefitting my now ex-wife."

Then a RW named Olga accused me of hating women.

Hello Olga. No I don't hate women. I do not even hate the bad ones I just want to avoid them.

One factor most people miss with the costs of a failed marriage to a Russian woman is that a short term marriage many/most of the times will end with the guy forced to pay maintenance. That is because RW are portrayed by their lawyers as helpless (usually the RW claim to not speak English) victims of a guy who dragged her over as a sex slave/housekeeper. As example one guy I know paid $850 a month for a year and half on a three month marriage*. Another $1000 a month for a year on a one month marriage. Both of these guys were down on their bucks, IMO shouldn't have considered marrying any woman. The guys with bucks pay bigger maintenance but usually not much more than $2000 a month. The real thing to worry about is the lawsuits in six figures. I have seen several of those.

Maxx

* From some Russian women I know and met. This guy's ex-wife Lubov after they separated stayed at the Russian Orthodox church in their shelter at night with another RW in similar circumstances. During the day she worked as 'Lucy' in massage parlor on her own free will. She tripled their business and made allot of cash money. The other RW Elena worked at the same place but was less successful. She did manage to accumulate $7000 in cash that she kept in her room at the church that she shared with Lucy (Lubov). Lucy stole her money. Elena called the police. When the police arrived and Elena made her claim the priest wanted to know where she got so much cash as she was staying there on their charity. Both women were thrown out. Later Lucy got engaged to one of her customers. Got a big ring and everything. Last I heard the engagement ended. I am not sure why as the guy was really crazy over her. I asked the Russian women I know that know these two women on what charms Lucy had. I had seen Lucy (Lubov) pictures and she looked rather hardened, unattractive and to be frank criminal. I was told Lucy exuded sex to the men she met. That she quote: "had semen coming out her eyes when she met a man". That seemed to be the case with her ex-husband Bill. After he met her no other RW he met seemed interesting. His attraction towards her was so intense that after she pulled the false DV on him she managed to lurer him back for some more fun and games (sex). After spending $15,000 on defending himself on her second charge he learned his lesson. Now he is married to another Russian woman named Olga for the past 2 + years. He doesn't know about his ex-wife's adventures as Olga keeps him from all contact with anyone in the Russian community.

I hope Olga you liked my story

[steviej]

Now that I understand this very serious risk "Loop":
... the 2 provisions of US green card law almost guarantee these horrible "domestic violence" abuses:
1. If relationship breaks off in less than 3 yrs, she may be deported
2. UNLESS she is a victim of domestic violence. ....

I'm tempted to say that if you are a USM, you must have a prenup to marry a FSUW. This can be a romantic deal-killer however. But the man is basically helpless against this legal system if things go wrong.

Altough a judge can apparently overrule prenup provisions sometimes (I think it is rare), it will show that the woman came voluntarily, agreeing to no extra financial support should things not work out. A good prenup should protect a man from all of this, except a criminal charge. Without a prenup, the RW can go into court looking all helpless, stumbling on her English, crying, and turn the man into hamburger. His fate is simple sealed at that point.
 

[Maxx2]

I'm tempted to say that if you are a USM, you must have a prenup to marry a FSUW.
 

I have seen prenups work very well with RW/AM divorces. The key to making sure they stick is to make sure she has her own lawyer that speaks Russian. The other key although I have seen this violated was to have this done while she's in Russia. Otherwise she might make the claim that she gave up everything to come to America ect. and that her husband sprung this on her when she got here and forced her to sign it or go back. If she has been "abused" then all this really becomes an issue.

 Maxx 

[Blues Fairy]

1. If relationship breaks off in less than 3 yrs, she may be deported
2. UNLESS she is a victim of domestic violence. ....

Actually, a conditional GC holder can remove conditions on her own if she can demonstrate sufficient evidence that the marriage was entered into in good faith and was valid.  If she also works and pays taxes, even better.  It can be done and has been done a zillion times.  False DV charges are indeed the resort of the legally illiterate or simply malicious ladies. 

[Maxx2]

False DV charges are indeed the resort of the legally illiterate or simply malicious ladies. 

I made this subject enveloping hobby of mine. I actually have interviewed immigration attorneys about it. By "interviewing" them I mean I have with my film crew have done filmed interviews with immigration attorneys, their clients, victims, friends and family.

I would say you are correct that these ladies are malicious. But I disagree that they are legally illiterate. Most of them that they do this get legal advice in advance. They are told by immigration attorneys, counselors, shelter workers and "professional immigrants" that an abuse charge is the fastest most sure way to get a green card. The "good faith marriage attempt" I-751 petition is iffy and often requires the help of an expensive immigration attorney to have it go through, especially if the husband doesn't cooperate and they seldom do. I have seen on immigration attorney websites saying "if you have been abused by all means tell us". They know that this is a much surer way. The I-360 abuse self-petition is known as the "silver bullet petition" in some immigration circles because the local USCIS adjudicators have a hands off policy with those. Here is a PDF from the USCIS to it's service centers telling them to "butt out" and not get involved with anyone claiming to be abused and leave that to the Vermont Service Center.
http://www.immigrationfraudvictims.us/Revocation%20of%20VAWA-Based%20Self-Petitions.pdf (read the first sentence "It has come to our attention..."
I have talked with an ICE agent, adjudicators and a retired INS District Director about this and they are all in accord that an abuse charge is an almost certain way to get a green card.

GET THIS everyone When an immigrant (men do this too) gets a green card from an abuse claim they skip right to the 10 year no conditions card. While all the law abiding immigrant spouses wait year after year to get their conditions removed with all their costs, uncertainty and hassle those that claimed to be abused bypass all of this. There are immigrants claiming to be abused who get their LPR status granted in under a year and bypass allot of the costs.

In an interview with a New York Russian/American immigration attorney I was told "Currently the fastest way to get your green card is to claim to be abused" I asked "Why?" "Because many of these women are in shelters and the shelter needs to be paid. The Vermont Service Center has a special VAWA unit and they work very fast." So their is Federal grant money to reward those that take this route.

Maxx       
   

[Ronnie]

Bluesie is right again...(dang it, I liked her better before).

It's wrong to say if the marriage breaks up at any time the lady will be deported.  A showing of a good faith marriage is enough to remove conditions. 

There is a case pending at the 9th circuit where the woman divorced withing a few weeks or months, the USCIS denied her adjustment and the court, I think, is about to rule that the USCIS was wrong.  I posted a link to the oral argument recording in another thread and it did appear that 2 of the 3 justices were of that opinion.

So, no, there is no reason for a woman to file false DV charges.  I would think she does so at risk of being greatly scrutinized herself.

[Ronnie]

Maxx,
It is one thing to claim violence when violence is a fact.  Quite another for anyone to be involved in a false report.  People can loose their bar card and she can be arrested along with those who helped her with a false charge.

[steviej]

Maxx,
It is one thing to claim violence when violence is a fact.  Quite another for anyone to be involved in a false report.  People can loose their bar card and she can be arrested along with those who helped her with a false charge.

The laws may vary in different states, but in many states, no act of violence is required. The woman merely needs to say she "feels threatened". That is enough. She can puff that story up by saying he was violent to her 6 weeks ago, or whatever, that she was afraid and didn't now how to report anything then, and now based on his recent emotional behavior she fears he will be violent again. It may seem bizarre, but only a statement that she feels afraid is all it takes. In almost all cases the judge will accept her testimony as a "finding of fact". They are afraid not to because, what if they reject her testimony, and something later happens to her? The judge will be crucified. So they operate on the principle that it is better to find 100 men guilty rather than let the one real case of risk get away. Once the woman has this "finding of fact" the man is properly marinated for financial slaughter as well. And she's on the fast track to the green card. It seems impossible to us that all this happens without habeus corpus, due process or presumption of innocence. Although it seems surreal, there never any provable thing as a false report of "feeling threatened." That's the catch 22 of the whole thing.

[Ooooops]

I wonder how often these false DV are claimed versus the real once?    Fast track to GC, you say?   Through numerous shelters, no money, no real job, no person to support you in the foreign country, often kids on hands?   Pretty sh*tty way to fast track, if you ask me.   Much easier to actually marry a good guy and stick with him...   

[Maxx2]

If she wants out of the marriage or the marriage is falling apart to claim abuse and using the I-360 is the fastest most surest way to get her Legal Permanent Residency card. Sure she might have to go through some theatrics in court and maybe stay a few nights at a shelter but that is about it. She will avoid being cross examined by a USCIS adjudicator and stay out of the EIOR immigration courts. Her LPR card will be mailed to her. Remember Gary? http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2236.0 He had his story broadcast on FOX5 news in Washington DC and no one in the USCIS contacted him or his wife's cousin living in Des Moines, Iowa who was a witness to her fraud. Then one day he opens his mail and there is his ex-wife's ten year LPR card.

I know a case (talked a number of times with the "husband" and his friends) where his Russian fiancee enter the US by a K-1. Married him. Pulled the DV route 8 months later. He did a background check on her. Found out she was still married to her previous husband. Gets his marriage annulled on account of her felony bigamy. Takes the court documents of this to his local ICE office. They tell him they can't help unless ordered by a Federal Judge. Tell him to send the papers to the Vermont Service Center where her abuse petition is being processed. He does. Several months later he opens his mail. Guess what he finds? A letter from the USCIS saying her petition has been approved and her LPR card is waiting for her. 

Now.... Imagine if she tried to file a 'good faith attempt at marriage' petition down at the local service center? Ronnie? Blues Fairy? Ooooops? She'd be arrested on the spot. The system of all abuse petitions being sent to the Vermont Service Center where they do not interview the petitioner and the USC spouse not being allowed to submit their evidence creates a giant loop hole for massive immigration fraud. 



Maxx

[ambach123]

I will give you my impressions, it may not be correct since many people here have a lot more experience than I have.

My impression is that RW are looking for a loving man who can provide for them. I am not sure they have much love for the United States, or they have such a great desire to live here, but for the loving man.  Otherwise they would rather live in their own country with friends and family.

If you believe that is the case, and I can understand that this may not be the case always, she would prefer to go back if the marriage does not work out, rather than find a way to stay here; and how would she support herself here?

Two caveats, the situation in FSU has changed considerably economically in the past few years, what was valid five years ago may not be valid now. The life for RW especially those under 30 is not bad, certainly a lot better than on her own in USA.

Secondly, physicians are an exception, they can get licensed here, and their lives and incomes can increase substantially, a case in point Nina Reiser an Ob Gyn doctor who was murdered by her estranged husband. A RW doctor may do anything to get here and stay here.

For whatever it is worth, I get a significant number of emails from RW doctors, all of whom are promptly deleted.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[msmoby_ru]

My impression is that RW are looking for a loving man who can provide for them. I am not sure they have much love for the United States, or they have such a great desire to live here, but for the loving man.  Otherwise they would rather live in their own country with friends and family.

In the vast majority of cases FSUW ARE looking for a good man - not a "Green Card" ...  You are learning ! .. But one needs to be careful to choose one in the majority...

If you believe that is the case, and I can understand that this may not be the case always, she would prefer to go back if the marriage does not work out, rather than find a way to stay here; and how would she support herself here?

That largely depends on the her circumstances, surely?!

Two caveats, the situation in FSU has changed considerably economically in the past few years, what was valid five years ago may not be valid now. The life for RW especially those under 30 is not bad, certainly a lot better than on her own in USA.

I don't understand if ambach is asking a question, or making a statement .. again it depends on individual circumstances, surely?

Secondly, physicians are an exception, they can get licensed here, and their lives and incomes can increase substantially, a case in point Nina Reiser an Ob Gyn doctor who was murdered by her estranged husband. A RW doctor may do anything to get here and stay here.

Ambach - FSU physicians qualifications aren't recognised - we know of a senior RU physician who moved to New Mexico to be with her AM .. she would have to train again .. yet she was the senior doctor in her field in a major hospital in Siberia .. she is a part-time nurse at a care home, not allowed to dispence medication.. OK, granted, the lady is in her early 50's  - but it is not a formality to be able to practice, again...time and money invested involved...

Is it me , or is ambach claiming one shouldn't chose a woman capable of making her own way, given time?  Why is that a "risk" .. ? This sounds like a possible case of insecurity / "control freakery" ..  A loving husband would surely encourage his wife to fulfilment ..

For whatever it is worth, I get a significant number of emails from RW doctors, all of whom are promptly deleted.

!!

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I guess that improves the chances for others...

[groovlstk]

If you believe that is the case, and I can understand that this may not be the case always, she would prefer to go back if the marriage does not work out, rather than find a way to stay here; and how would she support herself here?

I dated a number of divorced RW living in the US before I found my wife, and the vast majority had nothing but vitriol and disdain for life in the US. Whenever I would respond by asking, "why do you stay here rather than return home?" I never got a straight answer. I'd guess that most of these women reluctantly decided that their long-term opportunities in the US were better than at home, particularly if she has children.

Secondly, physicians are an exception, they can get licensed here, and their lives and incomes can increase substantially, a case in point Nina Reiser an Ob Gyn doctor who was murdered by her estranged husband. A RW doctor may do anything to get here and stay here.

Absolutely false. Scott has commented before on how difficult it is for docs certified in the FSU to establish their credentials here, it's not even remotely easy. I have only met one doc here, a woman who was a pediatrician in Novosibirsk. After finding out how difficult it would be for her to practice in the US she turned to a career as a real estate agent.

For whatever it is worth, I get a significant number of emails from RW doctors, all of whom are promptly deleted.

Very foolish, IMHO.

[Misha]

Two caveats, the situation in FSU has changed considerably economically in the past few years, what was valid five years ago may not be valid now. The life for RW especially those under 30 is not bad, certainly a lot better than on her own in USA.

This depends on a great number of factors. Does she have an apartment back home? Can she return to live with her family? What is her profession? There are a great deal many variables at work and for every rule there are a thousand exceptions.

[Globetrotter]

Doctors skills are instantly recognized?  Wrong!  If she is fluent in English, it will then take 6 years to practice as a doctor here.  I may be easier in some European countries, but not here.

[ambach123]

I have some knowledge of foreign medical graduates (FMG) requirements unrelated to any RW pursuits.

There are two sets of regulations. One is for US citizens with foreign medical degrees; the other is for FMG who are non citizens. Majority of FMGs in USA are Indians and Filipinos, about 35% of all doctors practicing in USA are FMG. In most cities majority of doctors are FMGs.

RW can become a citizen in less than five years.

She has to take FSMLE examination like any other FMG, but she can get a job at a hospital while preparing for the exam; literally hundreds of thousands of FMGs have followed that route in USA, with or without becoming US citizens. The problem may be if a RW doctor does not want to prepare for the exam. It is not an easy examination.

American health care system would stop functioning without FMGs.

I am surprised that this is not common knowledge here.

Boston is a hub of doctors, significant numbers of doctors here are FMGs many from FSU; I believe the majority of physicians in this area are FMGs.

Nina Reisner, a doctor filed for a divorce the day after she got her US citizenship. For Hans Reisner a small precaution he would have taken and eliminated doctors from his search, it may be likely that he would not be in prison for 15 years.

[ambach123]

Max's experience is several years old.

I don't see any reason for a RW in this time to try to stay here if the marriage does not work out, unless of course if she is a physician.

[groovlstk]

Ambach,

You've gotten some really good advice here and in other threads, but you seem extraordinarily paranoid and obsessed with eliminating a (batty) list of preconceived (and ill-conceived) high-risk groups.

You'd do best to simply RELAX, write women who INTEREST YOU and not those who seem to catch your attention simply because you think they are less likely to screw you over.

Don't get me wrong, you don't fish for guppies in a shark tank, and it makes sense to avoid, for instance, bad agencies and high-end nightclubs when searching for someone to spend the rest of your life with. But if you allow your search to be dictated by fear you may reap what you sow.

If you read the crash & burn stories, they all have one common element: the men married women whom they never bothered getting to know before taking the plunge. Look at all the accounts here - Maxx's, Gary's, etc. They did not err by marrying women who were "high risk" because of their professions, background, or from having divorces or children in their background... they erred by marrying virtual strangers. In some cases these guys claim there were no red flags, and that's true because they never spent enough time together to uncover any 

You've claimed before that you have the finances to do this right and you're not in a hurry. So why are you acting like a guy who is desperate to get engaged on his first trip? Believe it or not, when and if you meet the right woman, all those questions like "how do I tell if she's sincere?" etc. will seem laughable. The trust will come too, just like it does in in real life: with patience, time, and knowledge.

[groovlstk]

Max's experience is several years old.

I don't see any reason for a RW in this time to try to stay here if the marriage does not work out, unless of course if she is a physician.

Again, who are you looking to marry? A woman who will a) not screw you over or b) a woman who will return to Russia and not be a drain on your finances should things not work out?

Please take a look at the absurdity of your goals and priorities.

[BC]

I don't think I would consider marrying a physician, except maybe a dermatologist.

Probably like marrying a ghost.. simply too little time to enjoy life together.

A dentist maybe.. save some big bucks.

Naa... I'm alone for a few weeks now popping meals in the microwave and trying to figure out how to get the trash out the front door..  

I'm quite happy living with someone who makes sure I get fed well, takes good care of the kids and hands me the trash when I walk out the door.  She has the most challenging and valuable job in the world.

[ambach123]

Marriage is about commitment either the parties have it or they don't, I am not sure spending a lot of time together makes much difference.

In USA the divorce rate is about 50% and that is when a couple spends an average of 3- 5 years together before marriage. Actually the divorce rate is higher in those who had been living together prior to marriage.

On the contrary in India most couples never even meet before marriage and divorces are very rare.

One can argue that USA is not India,  neither is Ukraine.

It is all about commitment, one can be deeply committed in a few meetings, one can have only cursory committment after years of being together.

[Shadow]

Marriage is about commitment either the parties have it or they don't, I am not sure spending a lot of time together makes much difference.

In USA the divorce rate is about 50% and that is when a couple spends an average of 3- 5 years together before marriage. Actually the divorce rate is higher in those who had been living together prior to marriage.

On the contrary in India most couples never even meet before marriage and divorces are very rare.

One can argue that USA is not India,  neither is Ukraine.

It is all about commitment, one can be deeply committed in a few meetings, one can have only cursory committment after years of being together.

India allows more than one spouse, provided you choose the correct religion. Besides that the family of the bride is expected to pay a good sum to the husband. That together makes divorce not a needed option.
It is about commitment in the USA as well, and in Europe it is similar. A couple can live together for a number of years, acceptinglittle things that annoy each other. After marriage they suddenly try to change their partner in this, and find that people do not change because of a marriage.
That exactly is why it is smart to know who you will marry, and that you can accept their worst habits and traits. If you discover those as deal breaker after marriage, the commitment will disappear.