Income question

[viking]

When my children were younger I showed them how to use an ATM machine. They did not have access to it but I wanted to show them how it worked. They thought it was cool that you can punch in a few numbers and get cash whenever you wanted. I had to explain that you needed to put money in first and that the cash was coming from my account and not the bank giving me free money.  I suspect anyone learning to use an ATM for the first time needs to go through this learning experience. But I also suspect that most RW have used this before since there are many of them in the FSU.

[BC]

Viking,

IIRC the RU govt is using debit cards now for pension payments etc.. so many more do know how to use ATM's.  ATM's are EVERYWHERE nowdays  I could see 5 of them in the center of her town standing in one place.

[Ooooops]

  Now we do indeed have both a joint account and we make decisions on where our money goes together, or at least she makes the decisions and I agree with her. 

Well, that sounds much better!   

I think that husband and wife should sit down one day with all the financial papers on the table and discuss their future together.    Otherwise it's not a family. 

[DKMM]

This discussion has been very useful for me and I'm sure others.  Thank you all very much.

I'm going to start with the weekly cash thing and move on to a longer term more integrated approach after (if) we get married.

$24k!!  Wow I never thought it would be that much.  I was thinking more like 10.  Its gonna be a tough year!!

[ScottinCrimea]

I think there is a tendency by some men to use finances as a way to control their wives, keeping her in the dark about the overall finances and only allotting her a certain amount.  To have a true partnership of marriage, each party should have full knowledge of the financial situation and have equal say in the allocation of what is essentially community property.  Having said that, I have to admit that financial conditions in the FSU often lead to a lack of knowledge on the RW's part on the subjects of budgeting, longterm investment, etc.  In these cases,, it is necessary for the AM to be in  control of the finances until such time as the RW gets up to speed on all of this. His goal should be to provide this education as rapidly as possible to make her a full partner in financial decisions.  Anything less suggests that he either doesn't love her sufficiently or needs this type of control to keep her with him.  But then there is another caveat - sometimes the woman really doesn't want to be fully involved in the finances and wants the man to take care of this and dictate what disposable income is available to her.  But this would be her choice, not his.

[Gator]

Gator, I’m sorry, but if your example is a real one, it was your fault that you failed to explain to your wife how a debit account works.

Of course it is my fault.  With a RW, everything is a man's fault.   

I gather that this attitude is still dominant for a RW even after being in America for 6 years?! :hairraising:  If 6 years is not long enough, as in your case Galina, how many more years does it take before joint culpability is considered a possibility?

If you had emphasized that she had to check how much money there was in the account before buying something, she would have never paid with a debit card while was no money in the bank.

Can we say, "A RW on a shopping frenzy?"  Can we say, "A RW in the country for just four months?" 

The situation arose when she went shopping for shoes and clothes at a high-end outlet mall (without me as I believe in giving her plenty of freedom, plus I rather golf ).  She knew the balance beforehand, yet after making 5-6 purchases she lost track and had spent slightly more than in the account.  She then used the card for some small items: relax with a Starbucks double expresso after all that hard work of selecting shoes and blouses, pick up some juice at the grocery store for the kids, kvas at the Russian store, and something else I forget. 

I have a good relationship with my bank, so the bank honors overdrafts to avoid embarrassment or inconvenience; however, they charge a $35 fee each time.  After speaking to the bank, they credited me with all but one of the series of $35 fees being that the account was knew. 

The account is now set up so overdrafts are not honored.  So, she must learn. 

In summary, no harm done except for $35, which is "peanuts."

[GalinaF]

Gator, calm down. Yes, I know that there are situations when there is more than one person to blame. I’m at a loss what a number of the years spent in America has to do with this knowledge though. Anyway, I try not to be distracted….

In your previous post you wrote:

... When she overdraws her debit card account and spends $39 for a cup of coffee ($4 for coffee, $35 bank fee) (and does something similar five times over two days) one has to step in quickly...

Does it mean that your wife having made 5-6 purchases at that expensive outlet mall continued to use her debit card the next day? So, she wasn’t tracking her expenses at the mall, didn’t calculate how much she had spent after she returned home, and didn’t check the balance on her debit card the next day before going shopping again. If she checked the balance before going to the mall, she knew that she should have funds in the bank to buy things. Now I see that it was completely her fault. She was forgetful, and you got a $35 fine… Well, I got an impression that your wife is a lucky person who doesn’t need to worry about money too much.

BTW I started to pay our bills when my husband forgot to pay our trash removal bill on time, so the garbage man refused to empty our full trash can… In this case, being forgetful has nothing to do with adjustment to the new country!

[steviej]

Well, for my two cents, Galina is absurd, Scott is groveling, Gator is normal, vwrw and olga would be pleasant womento be married to. And, as always, Oooops has a pencil that is sharp at both ends.

[BC]

Well, for my two cents, Galina is absurd, Scott is groveling, Gator is normal, vwrw and olga would be pleasant womento be married to. And, as always, Oooops has a pencil that is sharp at both ends.

yadda yadda yadda.... and me?.. I know...  - doesn't count.

 

[Blues Fairy]

Well, for my two cents, Galina is absurd...

How is she absurd?  Do you mean that a responsible RW is an oxymoron? 

[Jumper]

VWRW-
 Good information and seems in line with ours-
Granted  this was about 5 years ago--
but we spent the same 3K on the wedding,(in the FSU) and about 5k on her a good used car to start with.The first years travel /relocation costs, BCIS fees, 
ad up as well. The additional *directly related to this situation * added expenses
i have never really added up.. but i would guess at a minimum were 10K.

As far as financial decisions after marriage.
we both know the income and expenditures well, and we do make those
decisions together.
(but no , certainly not on things like weekly grocery budget or anything that mundane, she knows the practical and reasonable amount ,probably better than myself,
and we do not discuss such things other than at he very first/ initially )

On *big* decisions -
I may catch some flake here, so be it.
 I make no apologioes whatsover to anyone, as we do discuss any such decisions  in depth,but the key is DISCUSS it.
I retain the final veto power.period.I captian this particular *ship*.and wether i enjoy it or not, am held soley responcible for its long term course.
So am entitled to make those calls.Questions can be asked..an agreement can be reached mutually ,,(and usually)
but ultimately if we can not come to one, the final decision is mine alone.

If anyone truly wants to be the captian,then i would glady relinquish the helm!!
and they can decide the families  financial fate.It comes with the responciblity of providing for that fate.  I might even enjoy the  carefree feeling that would provide.
So if my wife wanted to step up to that plate, thats great!! 
untill then....good or bad, respect and accept the decisions i make(and she does)

 In general things-
She always understood a debit card quite well, and our finacial situation,, short term and long term,checks balances often and makes good decisions on *whim* purchases.
Although completely unnesssary,
 she has always asked first on any purchase she considers a non-esseintial.  I do not expect her to do so , over shoes for example, but yes as the primary provider i find it refreshing she respects me enough to think it important to get my input on it .

Now wether that is answered with a "one blink" or "Two blinks"
everyone has a different system. LOL


 but general rule here is it really never matters in our household-
because in such situations she is far more inclined to *sweat* the purchase, its cost vs wether she really wants or needs it..and if it fits in the budget, than i would.
Certainly there is a general trust between us ,
on us both making sound and reasonable decisions in such everyday things..
and an understanding that everyone occasionally buys something they shouldnt have
in 20/20 hindsight..

She works, and has her own income to spend as she sees fit,
 to a point., as of course it is a family ,and all *big decisions* , effect us all.

I should note ,just for BF's sake lol
 that YES!! she can be absolutely absurd at *times*....with seemingly no grasp of reality..
but oddly balanced with being  incredibly practical and pragmatic at other 99% of other times.
( i do not think it has anything to do with her natiuonality, and i understood this trait well, before marriage..lol and i'm sure i have plenty of whacky traits of my own)


The biggest point i'd think relevent here, is this:
 Our financial decision making as a married couple now,  is no different than it would be with my  past relationships, and has little bearing on her nationality.(her being a RW)
and far more to do with our particular fincial realities, priorities, and  personalities.
(i suppose especially mine)


as always
your mileage may vary..
and i'm sure your opinions will

[Jumper]

fashionista said

On a serious note, if you yourself think that you are ready to get married (financially and otherwise), you should look for a person who likes you.  It's that simple. In my opinion that is.  On the other hand, if you are looking for someone who looks for a certain income, you will certainly find her, there is no shortage of such girls anywhere.  I dont know if it'll make you happy though

As is often the case with the majority of the RW posting here,
well said!


 I want to thank the group of RW that do express thier thoughts and opinions here,
the content may not be what the reader wants to hear at times, lol
but i hope the newbies weight the advise from you all, appropriately.


Like a former well known poster used to comment,

If you guys ever find that the normal enough RW posting here ruffle your feathers any..
then likely this venture is not something that is a good scenerio for you.
 

[Gator]

Gator, calm down.

The point that I am making is along the same line that BC wrote a few pages ago about his wife:

And in order to understand it, one sometimes has to make mistakes.  There were many times when I simply let things happen for the sake of a 'learning experience'.  It's much better than putting myself in the middle of the situation, frustrating us both.

In this example, my wife made a mistake, a small one that would have grown had I not stepped in. 

In response to you,  I believe that I am calm, in fact so calm and patient compared to my younger days that it amazes me. 

And teaching a RW about financial matters requires patience and calmness because it will not be a simple 1, 2, 3 lesson.  Even with her lack of full understanding of American finances, I would trust my wife not to become buried in debt by maxing out easily obtainable credit cards, something many of her more knowledgable AW sisters have done.

[OlgaH]

Right now I can not recall the names of some banks in Russia that very actively advertised their credit system offering Russians the credit cards. And of course it was very tempting for Russians and many of them were financially hurt by percentages.   

[steviej]

VWRW-
 Good information and seems in line with ours-
Granted  this was about 5 years ago--
but we spent the same 3K on the wedding,(in the FSU) and about 5k on her a good used car to start with.The first years travel /relocation costs, BCIS fees, 
ad up as well. The additional *directly related to this situation * added expenses
i have never really added up.. but i would guess at a minimum were 10K.

As far as financial decisions after marriage.
we both know the income and expenditures well, and we do make those
decisions together.
(but no , certainly not on things like weekly grocery budget or anything that mundane, she knows the practical and reasonable amount ,probably better than myself,
and we do not discuss such things other than at he very first/ initially )

On *big* decisions -
I may catch some flake here, so be it.
 I make no apologioes whatsover to anyone, as we do discuss any such decisions  in depth,but the key is DISCUSS it.
I retain the final veto power.period.I captian this particular *ship*.and wether i enjoy it or not, am held soley responcible for its long term course.
So am entitled to make those calls.Questions can be asked..an agreement can be reached mutually ,,(and usually)
but ultimately if we can not come to one, the final decision is mine alone.

If anyone truly wants to be the captian,then i would glady relinquish the helm!!
and they can decide the families  financial fate.It comes with the responciblity of providing for that fate.  I might even enjoy the  carefree feeling that would provide.
So if my wife wanted to step up to that plate, thats great!! 
untill then....good or bad, respect and accept the decisions i make(and she does)

 In general things-
She always understood a debit card quite well, and our finacial situation,, short term and long term,checks balances often and makes good decisions on *whim* purchases.
Although completely unnesssary,
 she has always asked first on any purchase she considers a non-esseintial.  I do not expect her to do so , over shoes for example, but yes as the primary provider i find it refreshing she respects me enough to think it important to get my input on it .

Now wether that is answered with a "one blink" or "Two blinks"
everyone has a different system. LOL


 but general rule here is it really never matters in our household-
because in such situations she is far more inclined to *sweat* the purchase, its cost vs wether she really wants or needs it..and if it fits in the budget, than i would.
Certainly there is a general trust between us ,
on us both making sound and reasonable decisions in such everyday things..
and an understanding that everyone occasionally buys something they shouldnt have
in 20/20 hindsight..

She works, and has her own income to spend as she sees fit,
 to a point., as of course it is a family ,and all *big decisions* , effect us all.

I should note ,just for BF's sake lol
 that YES!! she can be absolutely absurd at *times*....with seemingly no grasp of reality..
but oddly balanced with being  incredibly practical and pragmatic at other 99% of other times.
( i do not think it has anything to do with her natiuonality, and i understood this trait well, before marriage..lol and i'm sure i have plenty of whacky traits of my own)


The biggest point i'd think relevent here, is this:
 Our financial decision making as a married couple now,  is no different than it would be with my  past relationships, and has little bearing on her nationality.(her being a RW)
and far more to do with our particular fincial realities, priorities, and  personalities.
(i suppose especially mine)


as always
your mileage may vary..
and i'm sure your opinions will

Agreed. The man is the leader of the family. The man is primarily responsible for supporting his family and making the financial decisions. His wife supports him in this, usually willingly, in my experience. My RW thinks this is the normal and desirable way of the universe. This has nothing to do with whether a woman is intelligent or not, or whether she is competent or not. I don't know why some of the guys are hedging and hawing on this so much. I'm the man of the family. My wife is glad for it.

And now, to steal a good closing quote:
as always
your mileage may vary..
and i'm sure your opinions will

[GalinaF]

Well, for my two cents, Galina is absurd...

It's interesting... Could you please clarify?

[Ooooops]

And, as always, Oooops has a pencil that is sharp at both ends.

Impossible, I'd chew off one end in no time!   

No, seriously, it looks like people are talking about some total imbeciles!   And you know why that happens?   Because women are kept in the dark about financial situation in the family!    Or they are really stupid, but then who's to blame for marrying them?   

[Wolf]

    I grew up with my father and my mother working, and each one kept their own savings  and spend them more or less how they wished. Anyway being my father, the one who won more money he used to pay more due to having a higher income. So, if both of them works it is a solution I like

[possum]

Contrary to what some are saying here, it is possible to have your RW look good and not go broke.. All you have to do is get her to follow a few simple rules laid out in the ancient Russian tract called Domostroy.. it has a lot of really timeless wisdom in it and is a great read for anyone looking to save on things like clothes, food, etc.. For example, here's a chapter on women's clothes as translated by yours truly..



37. How the wife shall wear and look after [her] attire

And the dresses, and the shirts, and the headscarves shall you wear with care alway; they shall not be tarnished nor soiled nor crumpled nor soaked nor put on bloody or wet [surfaces]; when you shall take these off you shall put them away carefully and keep them safely, and teach your servants this same thing; the work garments of the lord and of the mistress, of their children and servants shall be old, when the work shall be finished [they] may change into clean everyday clothes and boots. And on a feast day or in fine weather, or in the presence of other people, or when you go to church, or to any man's home [you] shall wear gay attire, walk far from dirt and stay away from rain and snow all day; [you shall not] spill your drinks [on it] nor soil it with food or lard nor sit on anything bloody or wet; when you shall return from the feast or from the church or from other people's home you shall lay aside your gay attire, and look it over, and dry it, and iron it, and scrub it, and clean it, and then fold it carefully and put it away. And an old, and everyday dress, and undergarments, and white [things], and boots - all these shall be always clean, and that which is old shall be patched and mended so that it would be pleasant to people's eyes and to you, and be profitable, and could be given to an orphan unto salvation; every dress, and shirts, and headscarves, and bedsheets, and all manner of attire, having folded and rolled them carefully [shall you] put away in a chest or basket.

[AnastassiaAsh]

This discussion has been very useful for me and I'm sure others.  Thank you all very much.

I'm going to start with the weekly cash thing and move on to a longer term more integrated approach after (if) we get married.

$24k!!  Wow I never thought it would be that much.  I was thinking more like 10.  Its gonna be a tough year!!

Well, with my first husband it was more like $5K (1 visit, visa, tiny wedding, some new clothes...), second time around with Tim it was more like $10K (his move here plus wedding). In both cases i paid for lots of things that were happening on my side, second time even more so... I can't even start imagining paying $10K for baby clothes...i can't imagine doing that even for me. But i guess, what ever works for you, the main thing is to talk about the budget with your wife so that there won't be any surprises later. But i try to think in 10-20 years increments. Current mortgage, renovations, landscaping, future education for my son - are things we can save forever and it will never be enough it seems. Some people like buying clothes or cool cars, but we personally are more about traveling.  

As to who manages finances - of course me   Tim is thankful to me that i freed him from this huge headache. Both of us take decisions about big things. Don't have to ask about little things. Shopping, gas and all other things that make the house run - are all on my shoulders to do and to pay for it, both of our names were on all the accounts and investments even before we were married. There is total trust between us.

During my first marriage, i participated less as i was figuring things out, never really got to managing accounts, Lance was definitely in more control at that time. After his death it took me several months to completely understand everything....since then i run everything pretty smoothly...

[AnastassiaAsh]

Hi Anastasia - I have to agree with BC and disagree with you here a bit. To me it was a joy to be exposed to so much organic "female-ness". My wife just had laser beams on all the shoes, skirts, cosmetics . ... etc she had never seen before. She was a little overwhelmed. Truly it was fun to see the "scientific assessment" everything received. I had no idea one could concentrate so much on this stuff. She, like you and I think most real RWs, is careful with money. She has a nose for quality that amazes me. I think because of the indulgent and affectionate overtones of what BC, myself, and others have said about it, we gave you the wrong impression that its just a woman trying to take advantage of her husband's money. It wasn't that at all. I can remember a couple times where she'd be gone all day and come home with 22 things. Then, for 3-4 days, these "things" would receive the most intense quality assessment, and almost all the time, the 22 things would then be returned.   

hehe, here is the rule that i try to use - If you like something and feel like buying it, go back home, think or not think about it, if in several days you absolutely can't forget it - then go to the store and buy it.  During all these 8 years, i returned maybe 2-3 things...

I think my life back in Moscow taught me a lot how to save and not to spend, plus my first husband Lance was more on frugal side and i had these kind of lessons which now, at the end of the day, is a great thing! I buy make-up maybe once a year or so, i have a pretty good collection of it, but everything i need. I don't think i look less feminine. 

[steviej]

hehe, here is the rule that i try to use - If you like something and feel like buying it, go back home, think or not think about it, if in several days you absolutely can't forget it - then go to the store and buy it.  During all these 8 years, i returned maybe 2-3 things...

I think my life back in Moscow taught me a lot how to save and not to spend, plus my first husband Lance was more on frugal side and i had these kind of lessons which now, at the end of the day, is a great thing! I buy make-up maybe once a year or so, i have a pretty good collection of it, but everything i need. I don't think i look less feminine. 

I'm sure your husband is a very proud man   Instead of your "If you like something and feel like buying it, go back home, think or not think about it," strategy, my wife uses the "bring it home, obsess on it, put it on 5 times each day this week, check all the seams with a microscope - and then RETURN IT!" strategy. 

The net result financially is the same, but maybe my wife has more fun ?? 

She says "Shopping is hunting for women!"    

[DKMM]

Nastya,

I'm not sure what you meant by baby clothes?  No babies here, and hopefully not right away like Kuna.  I meant $10k to cover the bringing her here thing and getting her settled in.  Then we can live month to month on my salary/budget.  Lucky for me a wedding and car is gratis.  I can't share everything with her about my finances right away, but I hope we can discuss it enough to get her on the right idea.

As far as 10-20 year plans I love the idea if I can get her to play along.  Right now she stuck in the "whatever fate will bring us" mode.  She being only 23 means at least we can wait a few years before having kids.

[AnastassiaAsh]

I'm sure your husband is a very proud man   Instead of your "If you like something and feel like buying it, go back home, think or not think about it," strategy, my wife uses the "bring it home, obsess on it, put it on 5 times each day this week, check all the seams with a microscope - and then RETURN IT!" strategy. 

The net result financially is the same, but maybe my wife has more fun ?? 

She says "Shopping is hunting for women!"    

I shop on line maybe two or three times a year, that's it - clothes i mean. Grocery happens every 5 days or so.  This is all of my shopping. My fun is in traveling and dining out, looking beautiful of course...  Movies is also my weakness. 

My husband loves the fact that i don't really possess such feminine traits as - talkativeness, love for shopping, flirting, saying no when it means yes.... Most often than not i simply don't have time for all of this.

DKMM, the comment about spending $10 K for a baby wasn't addressed to you, that's from a previous post of another member, just an example of how much who spends on what.... At 23 you guys have at least 2 years, I gave birth at 25, i think that's a great age. Are you doing K1 already? Are you engaged? I missed that good news in your life. 

[steviej]

I shop on line maybe two or three times a year, that's it - clothes i mean. Grocery happens every 5 days or so.  This is all of my shopping. My fun is in traveling and dining out, looking beautiful of course...  Movies is also my weakness. 

My husband loves the fact that i don't really possess such feminine traits as - talkativeness, love for shopping, flirting, saying no when it means yes.... Most often than not i simply don't have time for all of this.

DKMM, the comment about spending $10 K for a baby wasn't addressed to you, that's from a previous post of another member, just an example of how much who spends on what.... At 23 you guys have at least 2 years, I gave birth at 25, i think that's a great age. Are you doing K1 already? Are you engaged? I missed that good news in your life. 

You are quite a frugal and sensible woman - even about clothes and shoes !!  And yes, you certainly look beautiful and feminine, so no loss there  I would say your approach is not typical of RWs, or maybe ANY women anywhere .. LOL    

I think vwrw gave an estimate of having $30K in the bank. Overall, I'd say that's good advice to newbies. If the newbie and his new RW love can seriously undercut that together, so much the better. But its not a bad amount to be ready with.

By the way, if you check the shelves of ladies clothing stores, half the items in all the stores between the Mississippi river and the Atlantic ocean will be items returned by my wife ..  She just LOVES that you can return things so easily in US. !! That just means you get to shop for them all over again !!