Do NOT fall in love! - lol

[Caddydaddy]

Hi all,

I started to write to some women in Siberia. Some didn't like me, so communication quickly was closed. Some like me, so we started to communicate.

And there is ONE who caught my special attention 

- she is very pretty
- she has an excellent education
- she has a good job
- she talks great

Wow!!!

Now things come in my mind like:

- do not fall in love with a pic!
- do not go ahead to fast!
- good thing need quite a bit of time

Now I have some questions to the expirienced, respectively those who married a RW:

- How long did you communicate via letter/email in general?
- May I ask her for her private email adress / phone number?
- Who should propose a phonecall, she or me?
- Who should propose a visit, also she or me?

Let's see what turns out 

Regards,
CaddyDaddy

[Shadow]

- How long did you communicate via letter/email in general?

Until you visit. 
I hope that you already prepared a timespan for visiting, if not start now. 3 months is a great time span.

- May I ask her for her private email adress / phone number?

That should be the first thing you do when you feel there is a connection.

- Who should propose a phonecall, she or me?

If she gives her phone number, she expects you to call. Do not expect RW to call you on their money, unless there is an emergency.

- Who should propose a visit, also she or me?

If you wait for RW to propose anything, you will be sitting here for a couple of years. They might hint, but you are supposed to be psychic and bring up their thoughts.

[possum]

Do NOT fall in love! - lol

Best advice I've seen in a while, and one I promise to follow to the best of my ability..

[catzenmouse]

Now I have some questions to the expirienced, respectively those who married a RW:

- How long did you communicate via letter/email in general?
- May I ask her for her private email adress / phone number?
- Who should propose a phonecall, she or me?
- Who should propose a visit, also she or me?

1. We met in person first then started to write and call.

2. Yes, if you want to take this beyond the pen-pal state (NOTE: You are nothing more than acquaintances until you meet in person and both decide to become more.)

3. You should

4. You should, if you want to take this beyond pen-pal state. Get to know her a bit through phone calls and see what her schedule is like to pick a good time to visit. Fall is a good time to go but if you want to experience a good celebration then New Years would be a great time to go. Don't be afraid of the winter. No worse than in the Northern states/Canada here.

Plenty of times when my wife would call home to Omsk it was warmer there than it was here in Wisconsin and they had less snow.

[Caddydaddy]

Hi again,

Thank you possum and catzenmouse! Great advice!

Yes, I will carefully bring up the question for her mail and phonenumber and of course I will call her, not she me.
Well, I don't want to appear kinda "needy", on the other hand one must start once, somehow

No, I do not want to sit here for a couple of years (hey good one!  ) and yes, I want to leave the pen-pal status asap. Good idea for a visit in fall if possible and/or for the New Year celebration. Oh no, I am not afraid about cold Siberian Winters, I know this from our mountains in Switzerland.

I asked so stupid because I have no idea how the rules are to build up a realtion with a RW. I do not want to step into the grease pot.

Thanks again,
CaddyDaddy

[possum]

Can I ask where in Siberia your girls are located?. If they live near Tomsk, there's a chance I might know some of them personally..

[DKMM]

There is a fine art to chasing women with determination without looking needy.  Do it right and you'll come across as a confident man who knows what he wants and how to get it.  Fortunately in the world of RW, they won't think you are needy if you say you want to come meet them soon.  They don't really understand how much of a big deal it is for you to get over to where they live.

[steviej]

Caddydaddy, how long have you been communicating with this lady? 2 weeks or 2 months? If you have exchanged some letters and seem mutually interested, I would definitely ask for her phone number and let her know you would love to talk to her. If its been more than 2 weeks, personally I think its fine to ask to call her. If everything is on the up and up, she'll be glad you want to call. About a visit, again depending on how long this has all gone on already, New Years is still 5 months away. That's a long time. From that perspective, fall sounds better to me. (Again, depending on how long this has been going on).

Just for grins, I sketched out the timeline that things progressed on with my wife. It may give you an idea of the timeframe of this whole thing.

First contact letters:   late February 2001
intermittent communication, feeling each other out. She's careful.
More Serious Interest Shows UP:  April 2001
Our correspondence picked up, and things got a lot better. First couple phone calls latter April.
Beginning of Daily Telephone Calls:  early May 2001
Agree to Meet in Person: Early June 2001
Able to Meet in Person First Time: Late August 2001
  [based on my work schedule at that point]
Spent 1 week together in Moscow late August. Everything went great. No sex. Separate Rooms. I didn't try.
Return to US. Ongoing daily phone calls.
Second Visit 10 Days: Mid November 2001
Went to her city. Met all family and relatives. Everything went well. I am totally in love. I think she is too.
Third Visit: Early March 2001. 1 Week. Again Moscow. Both of us feeling some stress that this is going too slow.
Begin K-1 Visa Process: June 2002
[ I should have started in late March. I let it slip a bit - my bad ]
Continue daily calls and letters.
K-1 arrives! Final Visit/Return with Fiance to US: October 2002
Wedding: November 2002
5th Anniversary - last November 2007. Happy marriage.
Hardest part waiting for visa betwen March 2002 and October 2002. I didn't make any more visits inbetween because the visa might have come at any time. Work wouldn't allow me to make back to back visits if that should happen. That waiting was tough for both of us.

[diverboy70]

Just for grins, I sketched out the timeline that things progressed on with my wife. It may give you an idea of the timeframe of this whole thing.

First contact letters:   late February 2001
intermittent communication, feeling each other out. She's careful.
More Serious Interest Shows UP:  April 2001
Our correspondence picked up, and things got a lot better. First couple phone calls latter April.
Beginning of Daily Telephone Calls:  early May 2001
Agree to Meet in Person: Early June 2001
Able to Meet in Person First Time: Late August 2001
  [based on my work schedule at that point]
Spent 1 week together in Moscow late August. Everything went great. No sex. Separate Rooms. I didn't try.
Return to US. Ongoing daily phone calls.
Second Visit 10 Days: Mid November 2001
.......

Looks pretty much like my timeframe also, even if I made my first trip a little sooner and my secoond trip just one month after the first. I have the luxury of living close to Russia 

Next meeting will be a weekendtrip to Lapenranta, close to the Russian border, in about a month

[Jumper]

How long did you communicate via letter/email in general?
almost non-existant, and only after we met
- May I ask her for her private email adress / phone number?
i would as soon as you have common interest in communicatiumg wth each other? wouldnt you have already asked for her phone number if you met her at the railway station or cafe? i would have ,
you can bet any local guy does too!  especially that possum!
- Who should propose a phonecall, she or me?
should? if she does propose it, then thats fine ? and obviuosly CALL! lol,
 if she doesnt you SHOULD ask.
but honestly if you ask for her number and she gives it,
its implied she agreed that you would call her?? its just polite to ask
when is a good time to call

- Who should propose a visit, also she or me?
again should? seems an odd question.
when either feel its developed to that point they could?
but really as the man its up to you, if she takes the lead in asking nothing wrong with that either..lol

but in your home town do you wait for a woman to ask you out?
or ask her out yourself?
your above two questions are the same answer as any local date,
 so i'm confused

[steviej]

So .. did you call her yet ??   

[Caddydaddy]

Well, AJ, that's the difference 

Regards,
Caddy Daddy

[Caddydaddy]

Hi all,

Just a small interim report how things go:

That RW which cought my interest in special likes my letters and enjoys our correspondence. We will arrange a date to phone soon. Yeahhhh ))

Now, hum, what's clever to talk about with a RW, in such situations my head and the thing what's inside usually turns into a black hole and I don't want to tell her "Cadillac - The Complete History", hehe. Btw, she already told me she will be "very nervous", me not at all, nothing, of course, lol.

And yes, she will be glad to meet with me!!! "Welcome to Siberia" she says )
Yeeehaww ))

Regards,
CaddyDaddy

[Shadow]

Caddydaddy do not expect the first minutes to be more than some nervous laughter and stuttering. The main object is to hear each others voice and to see if you can communicate with each other in words.

[KenC]

Hi all,

Just a small interim report how things go:

That RW which cought my interest in special likes my letters and enjoys our correspondence. We will arrange a date to phone soon. Yeahhhh ))

Now, hum, what's clever to talk about with a RW, in such situations my head and the thing what's inside usually turns into a black hole and I don't want to tell her "Cadillac - The Complete History", hehe. Btw, she already told me she will be "very nervous", me not at all, nothing, of course, lol.

And yes, she will be glad to meet with me!!! "Welcome to Siberia" she says )
Yeeehaww ))

Regards,
CaddyDaddy

Caddyman,
The guys up thread were rather slow IMO.  I talked with my now wife for about 2 months and jumped on a plane to go see her.  We almost spoke on the phone exclusively.  I spent thousands of dollars back then as I was unaware of the calling cards! :hairraising:

What to talk about?  In a word: HER!  If you want, make a list of things you want to know about her before you call.  When the convo lags (if it does) refer to your list.  You really should not have any problem thinking of what it is you want to know about her.  I know my conversations with my wife were nonstop talking.  In the beginning, her English was a little shaky, with a lot of himming and hawing while she searched for the right words, but that was only a temporary thing.  In no time she was yakking away nonstop.  (And still is today!)  Good luck to you.  Jump on in, the water is just fine.
KenC

[steviej]

Caddyman,
The guys up thread were rather slow IMO.  I talked with my now wife for about 2 months and jumped on a plane to go see her.  We almost spoke on the phone exclusively.  I spent thousands of dollars back then as I was unaware of the calling cards! :hairraising:

Caddy, today is Wednesday. If you don't call her by Saturday, all of us here will jump on your *ss. What kiind of plan do you need to make to call her? You have her number, right? Ask her today: "Can I call you Thurs eve., Fri eve, Sat?" "What is best for you?" Then DO IT! She wants you to, so don't forget that ...

What to talk about?  In a word: HER!  If you want, make a list of things you want to know about her before you call.  When the convo lags (if it does) refer to your list.  You really should not have any problem thinking of what it is you want to know about her.  I know my conversations with my wife were nonstop talking.  In the beginning, her English was a little shaky, with a lot of himming and hawing while she searched for the right words, but that was only a temporary things.  In no time she was yakking away nonstop.  (And still is today!)  Good luck to you.  Jump on in, the water is just fine.
KenC

Good advice. I think you'll find the 'ol tongue wagging, either yours, hers, or both .. LOL You'll flip to actually hear her, then everyday thereafter will be counting the minutes until you call again, and spend another $1000 !  LOL ... Fortunately I discovered calling cards fairly quickly 

[diverboy70]

Good advice. I think you'll find the 'ol tongue wagging, either yours, hers, or both .. LOL You'll flip to actually hear her, then everyday thereafter will be counting the minutes until you call again, and spend another $1000 !  LOL ... Fortunately I discovered calling cards fairly quickly 

I could not live without Skype!

[KenC]

With the calling cards now a days you can talk for 15 hours for 20 bucks!
KenC

[diverboy70]

Ken,

Unfortunately we do not have those card here in Finland, so I just have to use Skype instead, anyway it is almost 10 times cheaper than ordinary phone rates to St: Pete.

Most of the time we talk skype to skype anyway 

[Ade]

Just for grins, I sketched out the timeline that things progressed on with my wife. It may give you an idea of the timeframe of this whole thing.

First contact letters:   late February 2001
intermittent communication, feeling each other out. She's careful.
More Serious Interest Shows UP:  April 2001
Our correspondence picked up, and things got a lot better. First couple phone calls latter April.
Beginning of Daily Telephone Calls:  early May 2001
Agree to Meet in Person: Early June 2001
Able to Meet in Person First Time: Late August 2001
  [based on my work schedule at that point]
Spent 1 week together in Moscow late August. Everything went great. No sex. Separate Rooms. I didn't try.
Return to US. Ongoing daily phone calls.
Second Visit 10 Days: Mid November 2001
Went to her city. Met all family and relatives. Everything went well. I am totally in love. I think she is too.
Third Visit: Early March 2001. 1 Week. Again Moscow. Both of us feeling some stress that this is going too slow.
Begin K-1 Visa Process: June 2002
[ I should have started in late March. I let it slip a bit - my bad ]
Continue daily calls and letters.
K-1 arrives! Final Visit/Return with Fiance to US: October 2002
Wedding: November 2002
5th Anniversary - last November 2007. Happy marriage.
Hardest part waiting for visa betwen March 2002 and October 2002. I didn't make any more visits inbetween because the visa might have come at any time. Work wouldn't allow me to make back to back visits if that should happen. That waiting was tough for both of us.

Am I reading this right and you spent only 3 and half weeks together before you got engaged and took her to the US?

You must one of the very lucky ones to have a successful marriage based on such a short amount of time together beforehand. Going by your schedule I'd have been married a week and half ago. 

[steviej]

Am I reading this right and you spent only 3 and half weeks together before you got engaged and took her to the US?

SeriouslyJaded .. that's a good name for this question .. LOL .. You must be approximately right. I had made 3 visits after which I started the K-1 fiance visa process. I think the total time together face-to-face was more like 4 weeks. However, during that whole elapsed time we were on the phone everyday for at least an hour, usually 2  or more. And more letters .. The total hours on the phone by the time we finally got married were staggering. I can say for sure neither she nor I felt a need for more "visits" and "face time". The overall courtship was , what, 18 months, something like that? And still, it seemed like forever.

You must one of the very lucky ones to have a successful marriage based on such a short amount of time together beforehand. Going by your schedule I'd have been married a week and half ago. 

After reading "risky business" here on RWD, I realize I was lucky about some things. You are in Finland, right? I think being so close, your perspective on how many visits and how much face time is probably different. US is a long way away. Still, I would ask, are you in love with your girl? If you're in love with her, what's holding you back? Sometimes being close enough to visit again easily makes one think, "maybe we still need another visit .. to be sure .." something like that? I think there's an optimum time. Too soon isn't so good, but too long isn't good either. I think there's a natural rhythm. And of course, every man and woman is different. When your time is right, you'll know it, anyway. That's all that matters in the end.

Good luck !!

[By the way, I like your ID name .... LOL ... it says a lot, doesn't it ?? ]

[KenC]

Caddyman,
I forgot to tell you some things.  I suggest you keep the conversations light and as non-romantic as possible until you meet.  Of course you can discuss how romance will fit into your life and relay some past experiences but be careful not to get in too romantically deep before meeting.  The thought process here is that it is all a fantasy before meeting and you do not need to feed that fantasy in any way.  In fact try your damnest not to feed it.  If  You allow your fantasy to get away from you, there will be no hope for reality to live up to your unrealistic expectations.  Do not allow your own imagination to set you up for failure.  Keep it light and friendly before meeting face to face.
KenC

[Jumper]

KenC
good advice (as usual!)

Well, AJ, that's the difference 

Regards,
Caddy Daddy

lets see, she:

is very pretty
- she has an excellent education
- she has a good job
- she talks great

umm yeah Caddy!
 that is the difference? LOL!
 
if still single, i would have not only called her already,
but probably already visited her!!

get off the couch ya' slacker!!
or someone else will..

if she fits your description,,the local guys, and others, arnt delaying much..

just saying!

[Ade]

SeriouslyJaded .. that's a good name for this question .. LOL .. You must be approximately right. I had made 3 visits after which I started the K-1 fiance visa process. I think the total time together face-to-face was more like 4 weeks. However, during that whole elapsed time we were on the phone everyday for at least an hour, usually 2  or more. And more letters .. The total hours on the phone by the time we finally got married were staggering. I can say for sure neither she nor I felt a need for more "visits" and "face time". The overall courtship was , what, 18 months, something like that? And still, it seemed like forever.

Ah, well if you talked every day it certainly makes a difference. Still, I think I would feel less than comfortable getting married with such a short time face to face. We, my gf and I, have been talking since January 4th and have spent 5 weeks together so far - she came here to my home for 4 weeks of that. I have 2 more weeks planned in her home town - I fly out on the 25th - and we are also planning for her to come here for another 2 months (she's allowed 3 months in every 6 with a schengen visa) for autumn/winter.

We haven't really talked of marriage yet but I guess if after all those visits we still feel the same way we will apply for a Norwegian fiancée visa which will allow her to come here for 6 months and even work. If we're aren't married at the end of that time she will have to leave.

That would still be faster than how long my ex-wife and I took to get married.

After reading "risky business" here on RWD, I realize I was lucky about some things. You are in Finland, right? I think being so close, your perspective on how many visits and how much face time is probably different. US is a long way away. Still, I would ask, are you in love with your girl? If you're in love with her, what's holding you back? Sometimes being close enough to visit again easily makes one think, "maybe we still need another visit .. to be sure .." something like that? I think there's an optimum time. Too soon isn't so good, but too long isn't good either. I think there's a natural rhythm. And of course, every man and woman is different. When your time is right, you'll know it, anyway. That's all that matters in the end.

Good luck !!

[By the way, I like your ID name .... LOL ... it says a lot, doesn't it ?? ]

Norway; I'm an ex pat Welsh guy that's resident here. It's diverdude that's from Finland I think.

Yes, I imagine that I would probably have different expectations if I were in the US. To be honest, I'm not at all sure if I would even consider it because of the difficulties in spending time with my prospective other half - you have so few holidays there too.

And yes, I love her. But love is blind and sometimes love is not enough to make up for incompatibilities in the long term and only time can bring out those issues; that is one thing I've learned on several occasions over the years.

I was seriously jaded but maybe not any more.

[steviej]

Ah, well if you talked every day it certainly makes a difference. Still, I think I would feel less than comfortable getting married with such a short time face to face. We, my gf and I, have been talking since January 4th and have spent 5 weeks together so far - she came here to my home for 4 weeks of that. I have 2 more weeks planned in her home town - I fly out on the 25th - and we are also planning for her to come here for another 2 months (she's allowed 3 months in every 6 with a schengen visa) for autumn/winter.

That 3 months out of 6 visa is certainly a game-changer in how to navigate this romance. While courting my wife, there was no such option for US visas. I would say, after spending 5 weeks together, you sure know a lot about each other now. If you do the 2 month visit, man, that's gotta be everything you need, probably. I guess one important question is: do you want to be married? That's a different state of mind than wanting a serious girlfriend. It's kind of a life-style choice on top of a romantic choice - not just a romantic choice, if you see what I mean.

We haven't really talked of marriage yet but I guess if after all those visits we still feel the same way we will apply for a Norwegian fiancée visa which will allow her to come here for 6 months and even work. If we're aren't married at the end of that time she will have to leave.

That would still be faster than how long my ex-wife and I took to get married.

I knew my first wife for much longer than I knew my current wife. I'm not convinced that longer exposure is always revealing. Don't know why, it's just an experimental observation. For example, the divorce statistics in US show that the divorce rate for couples that lived together first is about 5% higher than couples who did not live together before marriage. Intriguing, isn't ? I'm not sure how to interpret that.

And yes, I love her. But love is blind and sometimes love is not enough to make up for incompatibilities in the long term and only time can bring out those issues; that is one thing I've learned on several occasions over the years.

I was seriously jaded but maybe not any more.

I think what a man wants in a wife, and a woman in a husband, is often in our subconscious, perhaps not recognized. I think it is different from what we want and expect in a girlfriend/boyfriend. Having had a bad end to my first marriage, I spent a lot of time, even writing it down, as to what I wanted and needed in a wife. Not the woman I loved. I presumed I would love the woman I marry, but what, in my deepest desires and needs, did I want in a wife. I worked a lot of that out ahead of time, and I talked with the ladies about it. Some resonated with it, some not. But its not the usual stuff that comes out from dating. Not even long term dating in many cases.

Glad to see you're less seriously jaded   Good women have that affect on us!