Trip Report to Kiev

[Misha]

At this time my impression is that marriage, if it took place, and did not work out, M would want to go back to her country. I did not sense any specific desire on her part to live in USA. She also agreed that in that unlikely situation, she would go back.

Well, there are many factors at play, namely how long the marriage will last. If she were to live 5, 10 or 15 years in the United States, she may think differently. Also, it depends on whether there are any children involved. If the two of you have children, would you really want her to return to her country with your children?

[William3rd]

2nd Everyone in the USA who gets married has a prenup. Most people do not know what it said until they get a divorce. The only difference between having a prenup and not, is the 2 people get to decide before time what happens if they get a divorce. With out one, the state decided what the agreement was.

NOT TRUE- very few people in the US have a formal prenup. And very few people actually need one. If you refer to the marital state as somehow generating a prenuptial agreement, that is an oversimplification of a serious matter. The marital vow says for better for worse, for richer for poorer etc until death.

If you do it yourself, you have a fool for a client and any ambiguities will be held against you as the author. Go see a lawyer. If you need a prenup, then you can afford one BTW- there are very few competent lawyers that want to touch a prenup these days.

Prenups that decree sex and things like that are the exception and are routinely tossed out as against public policy. Prenups that try to settle child issues and the like are invalid.

Actually, in a prenup ONE party usually doesnt feel like sharing his toys or paying his way. Usually the guy-

WITHOUT ONE- you EACH share 50/50 the assets of the marriage including retirements, savings, etc. and you may pay spousal support for a period of time just to balance out things like disparity of income for her staying at home and taking care of the house and rasing kids. Or she might pay you , if she has greater income.

EVEN WITH ONE, the court has the right to set it aside in whole or in part in the interests of fundamental fairness in many states.

EXAMPLE- the CA guy that invoked a no spousal support clause in his prenup last year after his wife had been hit by a truck and disabled. "We agreed that there would be no spousal support unless the marriage lasted more than ten years." OOOPS-not according the CA Supreme Court. Get out the checkbook, Charley. Your prenup is history. . . . . another frugal fornicator bites the dust under fundamental fairness. . . . .

[ScottinCrimea]

Only PW men and men with excessive feminine traits (along with females) can characterize this situation as a 'conquest' by the man.

Granted there is a portion of PW men and men with excessive feminine traits in the general population.

What is interesting is that RWD seems to attract such men in higher proportions than they exist in the general population.

I see this post as only an attempt to incite an argument, further proof of Pike's status as a troll.

[HiTech]

William3D: I was referring to the default agreement of state law, not the marriage vows.

[Sculpto]

I see this post as only an attempt to incite an argument, further proof of Pike's status as a troll.

A troll?  lemme at em!  I have ways of deeling with Trolls.  head of Troll ----->

[felix8787]

Ambach
I commend you in your efforts to find yourself a good woman, I wish you all the best with "M" and that things in your future with her are Ok.
I myself just returned from my trip to Kiev last night.....and it was wonderful, will be planning my next trip soon.
Take care.

felix8787

[ambach123]

Thanks Felix.

I went to Kiev with an impression that these girls are mercenaries and are primarily into short term or long term financial gains. What other impression would anyone get reading so many posts here that state so?

Also that some of them merely look for a way to come to USA.

I found M to be modest and sincere; when offered money she refused it. She did not have any particular desire to come to USA. When informed of a pre- nuptial agreement that would waive any montary claims by her, she agreed to it. I think it was her non mercenary nature  and sincerety, that won her my heart ; apart from mutual physical attraction, for me that was a fundamental requirement of any relationship.

She was also fully conversant in English, otherwise I would not know how to establish a relationship. We talked almost constantly.

I did not see much of Kiev, and I had little interest in it; I went there to find a mate, and it would appear to me that I had succeeded in finding one.

We discussed another meeting in Budapest, over the Thanksgiving. She had to get a visa; and once again she declined when offered travel expenses.

[felix8787]

No problem Ambach,
I do want to apologize to you for making a rather rude post on your post awhile back, I apologize.
From what I gather after reading your TR, I personally don't care it you had sex with her on the first night or not, you and M are adults and can do what ever you guys want.
If it's all there and she wanted you, she will have you.....she has a liking for you and vice versa, what does it matter if you had sex on the next night or the last night you are there???

I didn't have that impression, but then again I have been looking for about 2 years and just recently learned about RWD but I understand what you mean, all you read as a new person is about scams, red flags, GCG, pro-daters and to be careful, not that there is nothing wrong with getting good information about being safe and smart about this.

I didn't follow any set rules when I went, didn't have a load of cash to blow (budgeted)and no back up plan, just went and see what happens.  So far things have turned out great. And looks like things are turning out good for you too also.

felix8787

[ambach123]

We left Kiev with positve feelings.

We have a second meeting planned in Budapest during Thanksgiving. We have a strong sexual chemistry, probably that would continue. I think both of us have calmed down, and would look at the situation more realistically.

In your experience does the second meeting reinforces the first meeting, most of the time?

[Pike]

In your experience does the second meeting reinforce the first meeting, most of the time?

Most of the time, yes.  However, a significant percent of the time, you will not think you are with the same woman.  Particularly where the location changes.  I have had sweet pussy kittens turn into bitchy cats when they are away from their home comfort zone.  And also when the second meeting is of longer duration that the initial meeting.  We can all put up a false front for X days, but harder to prolong it for longer periods of X + Y.

[William3rd]

Most of the time, yes.  However, a significant percent of the time, you will not think you are with the same woman.  Particularly where the location changes.  I have had sweet pussy kittens turn into bitchy cats when they are away from their home comfort zone.  And also when the second meeting is of longer duration that the initial meeting.  We can all put up a false front for X days, but harder to prolong it for longer periods of X + Y.

The voice of experience truly is speaking. Read the archives and sample the chronicles of pike; you will be much less likely to listen

[kievstar]

Ambach, second meeting can be mixed. Personally I think meeting her parents is what is critical.  A girl usually shows her parents when comfortable with you. 

[UTRO]

If only sometimes we could eat our words, eh Ambach??

On a slightly different twist regarding a Prenup.... I brought the subject up with my Sveta as a way of reassuring and comforting her that I wasn't going to lay claim to any wealth/assets that she will be bringing with her to Canada if our relationship fails. A Prenup will not only benefit me, but her as well. I'd say some men on this Site, once again, seem to forget or disregard the sacrafices these women make coming to the West. One being that many FSU women own their own flats. Sometimes these properties are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. If she sells this property to come to her man in the West and the marriage fails, she could potentially lose a large percentage of what she brought over. Adding insult to injury... returning to the FSU only to realize that she can no longer afford the same class of flat she once owned!
One other thing about a Prenup... A substantial amount of what is agreed to on notarized-legalized prenup document, will only hold water if the two parties still agree to what was written at the time it was signed In other words...... pray that any divorce is amiable, friendly and peaceful 

[docetae]

About prenup, french embassy in Kiev make them almost mandatories for french/ukrainian weddings. It was making laugh Anna because in the text given by embassy everything belongs to each one except wine and food that must be split between both !

[kievstar]

utrobina, I think your lucky in that she owns an expensive flat of several hundred thousand dollars - most women still live with there parents and do not own a flat or rent one with several people. 

[docetae]

utrobina, I think your lucky in that she owns an expensive flat of several hundred thousand dollars - most women still live with there parents and do not own a flat or rent one with several people. 

Kievstar, my wife is in same situation... She has bought her two rooms flat a few years ago for 35k...Now the same flat than she has, near the center of Kiev and 200m from a metro station is sold at least 150k...Many professionals have bought flat a few years ago and now are making money with it trough rental to other people.

[UTRO]

utrobina, I think your lucky in that she owns an expensive flat of several hundred thousand dollars - most women still live with there parents and do not own a flat or rent one with several people. 

Hers isn't worth several 100s of thousands of dollars Point being, it's all she has in her name and I wanted to put her mind at ease that it would be protected. Unless of course, the mess the US mortgage and banking crisis has caused around the world deepens   Then what exactly is protected??
Can't remember who's wife it was on this site who brought wads of US$s straight through Customs Control in her purse

[kievstar]

 You must have married older women over 30 years?  Not many women I know under 30 own apartments in Kiev unless parents died. 

I have bought numerous apartments and than sold them in Kiev.  Returns have been great.  Sometimes 100% return next week as many people in Kiev have no idea what their apartment is worth.    But prices are crashing right now.  Down 20% in past two months in Kiev for higher end apartments.  Which is good for the people who do not own.

[ScottinCrimea]

utrobina, I think your lucky in that she owns an expensive flat of several hundred thousand dollars - most women still live with there parents and do not own a flat or rent one with several people. 

I don't see this among my acquaintenances in Ukraine so I'm wondering about the "most" in your comment.  Do you have some references or statistics?

[kievstar]

Scott, see post above.  I was referring to women under 30 years old not owning an apartment. 

[ambach123]

I came back, both of us thought it over, and decided to proceed. I have filed for a K-1 for her. I believe it takes at least four months or more.

I am planning a visit over Thanksgiving and again over Christmas.

[AnastassiaAsh]

You are looking at 6-8 months right now, but i am glad you went ahead and started it. 

[msmoby_ru]

I came back, both of us thought it over, and decided to proceed. I have filed for a K-1 for her. I believe it takes at least four months or more.

I am planning a visit over Thanksgiving and again over Christmas.

Ambach, if you can make an honest woman out of M and be happy together, I'll be the first to eat "humble pie" and eat my words....   *I* never believed you could possibly manage it with your previous "attitude"..


So, make sure you two "succeed" and a great deal of grovelling from me will ensue...

[GoodOlBoy]

I agree with Anastassia A. It will take AT LEAST 6 months, probably more. You are going to find that the hardest part of this process (for both of you) is the waiting. If you find out that things aren't going to work out after your 2nd or 3rd meeting, you can always withdraw your petition. It may cost you a few dollars, but if you find out that you are incompatible..so be it. But starting the paperwork now makes perfect sense. If your second meeting goes well, then things will seem to go quicker and the wait doesn't seem as long. My opinion, good idea.

BTW, I did the same thing with my wife. After our first meeting I started the paperwork. We met 3 more times (Prague, Thailand, Greece) before she actually came to Florida. Started paperwork Nov. 2004, she arrived July 2005.

[Gator]

I came back, both of us thought it over, and decided to proceed. I have filed for a K-1 for her. I believe it takes at least four months or more.

Ambach,

I am happy that you feel so good about this woman.  However, let's talk.

You have asked her to marry you after just one week together (or was it even a whole week).  That makes you a OWW.  Some OWW men have found happiness; most have not.  In fact one survey claims the divorce rate is over 90%.

When you first came to RWD you did not know Jack Schidt about this venture.  You are now an expert!  Why the rush?  Would you ask an AW to marry you after one week of good sex and frugal ways?  And an AW shares a common language and a common culture that would enable you to discuss serious subjects freely.

Are you certain that your values and goals are aligned with M's values and goals?  You and M have not had a disagreement with this woman - what makes you think that the two of you will resolve your differences productively? 

I knew my wife for six years before we married.  Yes, too long.  However, she and I are still adjusting to each other, and every week requires some accommodations.  Are you good at accommodating?  Is M?

You will see her soon.  That is good.  Try to make these trips less about sex and more about focusing on what it will take to build a life together. 

Do you realize that if your K-1 is approved by your service center (takes about 2-3 months after submission), you must wait for two years before filing a K-1 with another woman.  So I hope everything is as you expect.