US Presidential Elections

[BC]

Take out California and New York votes and redo your math.  Also, if you put 100 people in a room and 46 people do not like you it is not a friendly room.  BC, Not sure where your flag is from but have you ever lived in the USA? 

kievstar,

Yes I have.

What's all this about NY and California? they somehow don't count? Maybe limit the number of voters? IIRC it was only Florida that made the difference last time.. Where you going with all this number crunching?  I didn't know Mexicans could vote, nor convicted felons.

If I register as a Republican, will I all of a sudden turn lilly white, thump bibles and be a millionaire? - Where can I sign up? 

[Blues Fairy]

Why would anyone want any political party to screw up the country just to gain power at some later date?  Is power what is important rahter than the state of the nation? Seems to be what you are implying.

To make it clearer, I do not *hope* that Obama screws up, but I rather expect it.  He is so clueless in so many things, especially foreign policy, that a major blow from that area is almost inevitable.

[ScottinCrimea]

To make it clearer, I do not *hope* that Obama screws up, but I rather expect it.  He is so clueless in so many things, especially foreign policy, that a major blow from that area is almost inevitable.

Unfortunately, if Obama does screw it up the media will either hide it, twist it or find some Republican to blame it on.

[SANDRO43]

Just in case you forgot, or posters can't be bothered to look back!

I didn't and I can:

Sorry Sandro. was that remark supposed to be "funny"... ?

My poor knowledge of English makes me conclude that you are criticising the intention of my words there, whereas this:

and I submit that you know very well, that in the case of careless remarks (which can be perceived as racist) - it is very much down to you to be careful as to how they can be perceived..

applies to their effect.

While you're perfectly entitled to whatever personal opinion you may have on the latter, the same does NOT apply to the former.

[Mir]

Hitler and Stalin were also two of the most talented speakers of all time

r

Stalin was not a talented speaker and c/w Trotsky his skills of oration were dismal.

[kievstar]

BC , just pointing out America is divided and not a landslide.  Were 50 states inside one country.  Trust me there is different view state by state and within classes / race / earning level.  Criminals can vote.  So can Mexicans -Not all illegals.  Legal Mexicans will out number blacks very soon in USA.  Are you sure you lived in USA? 

By the way I helped on Democrat campaign as a financial consultant (I am not a Democrat however).  Like a well run campaign you figure out the key states and people and you go after them.  Mexicans were targeted past 4 years.  A lot of Mexicans live in the midwest - i.e. Ohio and Indiana.  Not politically correct to say hey lets go get the Mexican vote.  Ways to do it by not making it so obvious.  Past three elections Ohio, Penn, and Florida were huge.  Biden is a Roman Catholic - Mexicans like that. 

New York (were bulk of population is) and California are like their own countries within the USA.  Just very different than most other states.  If a Republican ever wins these two states it will be a landslide win (i.e. Reagen) or if a Democrat ever wins Texas.

I am getting off topic so will stop.

[I/O]

Wall street gave it's resounding endorsement by dumping 5%.

.............and another 5%. Wall street will be similar to us down here soon, it'll need to look UP to see the bottom. Clearly the presence of BO inspires the market with confidence.

Mir: I disagree. Uncle Joe had no smooth voice but an ability to influence extremely large crowds, perhaps our definition of talented differs but for me, results count and in the game of public speaking, having the numbers believe you is the desired result.

I/O

[BC]

Just in case you forgot, or posters can't be bothered to look back! ..you said...

and I submit that you know very well, that in the case of careless remarks ( which can be perceived as racist) - it is very much down to you to be careful as to how they can be perceived..

I VERY much doubt you would say this in a room with Black or coloured colleagues or in  Brixton or Harlem ! ... Why is is all right to say it here... ?

1/ As  you well know it isn't a deep sun tan... Sun tans are aquired from exposure to the sun

2/ This pigmentation is from birth.


Nope... not even "witty".. just offensive to some..

Like I said, you should know better....

Well 'tanned' seems quite ok for Italians...
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV2-KCaRFfo[/youtube]

[Mir]

Fair enough but are we assuming that Stalin's success was due to his ability to charm large number of people through speech?

One does not have to be a good public speaker to succeed, look at George W.

Stalin's talents were in other areas and there is a lot of evidence that his main rival Trotskey was a vastly superior orator, a through intellectual, excellent organizer etc. If Stalin and Trotsky were asked to influence a group of people through words Trotsky would have won by miles.

[msmoby_ru]

I didn't and I can:My poor knowledge of English makes me conclude that you are criticising the intention of my words there, whereas this:applies to their effect.

While you're perfectly entitled to whatever personal opinion you may have on the latter, the same does NOT apply to the former.

Sandro, your English is as good as mine, and you made a racist remark... not an interpretation FACT... I note you didn't respond to Would you say this in Brixton or Harlem..or the scientific specific error re "sun tan"..

You're an intelligent man, why lower yourself , by now "pretending" otherwise...

Keep digging...

 

[msmoby_ru]

He is so clueless in so many things, especially foreign policy, that a major blow from that area is almost inevitable.

Well, at least he knows were foreign places are .. Bush, didn't...

May be Presidents are as good as the advisers they have around them.. If Obama can persuade Holbrook to join the Foreign Policy team *I'd* say he was "savvy" and stood a far better chance of repairing many "broken" fences" ..

Apart from Russia, who couldn't wait to "crank things up" most foreign countries will wait to see how he performs and they mostly think things couldn't get any worse..

[SANDRO43]

I'm not getting through to you, apparently .

you made a racist remark... not an interpretation FACT...

Your personal opinion. Do you also maintain that the historically-unprecedented fact of the first US President in 200+ years not being white should be hushed over and not be mentioned AT ALL ? Or can you suggest a non-racist-sounding way of doing it that meets with your approval ?

I note you didn't respond to Would you say this in Brixton or Harlem..

Because it was irrelevant, since we're not in either.

or the scientific specific error re "sun tan"..

Nitpicking, do you consider my single sentence the equivalent of a dermatological treatise ?

why lower yourself, by now "pretending" otherwise...

Again, you are interpreting my words and motivations, I'm not so awed by your opinions as to feel that I should resort to that. You wish to think I'm a racist ? Alright, fine with me, I'm not going to lose much sleep over that. Let's not bore the membership further with this pointless discussion.

[William3rd]

Well, at least he knows were foreign places are .. Bush, didn't...

May be Presidents are as good as the advisers they have around them.. If Obama can persuade Holbrook to join the Foreign Policy team *I'd* say he was "savvy" and stood a far better chance of repairing many "broken" fences" ..

Apart from Russia, who couldn't wait to "crank things up" most foreign countries will wait to see how he performs and they mostly think things couldn't get any worse..

And neither did Palin. . . Isn't  south africa just a part of the country of Africa?!?!?!?!?

Heard ol' Rush yesterday blaming the recession on Barack Obama, the fall of Israel on Obama, our poor standing in the world on Obama. . . . If he researched further, I am sure he would have blamed the Spanish flu, AIDS, and the crucifixion of Christ on Obama as well.

Seems that Rush is painting himself as irrelevent. . . . .

[Gator]

Heard ol' Rush yesterday blaming the recession on Barack Obama, the fall of Israel on Obama, our poor standing in the world on Obama. . .  .

One question counselor,

Why were you listening to Rush?  If you want a chuckle, get XM radio.

[William3rd]

Actually- I like listening to Bill Handel bc he is right on about 90% of the time. Unfortunately, Limbaugh is on the show right after Handel so I listen to his drivel from time to time. Yesterday he was in rare form-either he got a new source for oxycontin or he was suffering a nervous breakdown. TUrn the Clock back to 2002- "the Clinton Recession as the seeds of a recession are sown quite a while before." . .  2008- "the Obama recession has begun." Apparently credibility or memory are not among the gasbag's strong points. . .

Progressive radio is a little too extreme the other way.

Ya know, gator. . .  maybe I should check out XM radio. . . . 

[Mishenka]

Maybe start listening to music and not talk show hosts. 

[Faux Pas]

Obama is in a lose/lose scenario. He won't be able to fulfill all his promises of "Change and Hope". Nobody could but that doesn't matter, all politicians say anything to get elected. We the sheep believe them. His campaign reached cult proportions. He will never gain the minority support of the republican right and filibuster will be the order of every session. His supporters and the democratic left will be dismayed because his promises of national health care, increased jobs and growing economy will be met by rising inflation and double digit unemployment fueled by liberal white house policies. Confidence on Wall Street will fall far below the days of Jimmy Carter and interest rates for those who are able to find money to borrow, will pay 18-20% or more.

On the foreign policy front our enemies are rejoicing and our allies are nervous. U.S. defense spending is about to be gutted in favor of funding other democratic initiatives. Negotiating with enemies from a position of weakness will again be the norm. We will trust that all other nations, rogue and otherwise will "do the right thing". Iraq, Afghanistan will again be the breeding ground for the wahabist Islamofacist who pray for our demise.

While we are all drunk on the recent election and our ability to elect a black man as president, the hangover of inexperience will remain at least for 4 more years. I hope I am wrong but, this is our current status as I see it

[wxman]

What demographic groups did Obama win in this election? Pretty telling...

Obama beat McCain among women voters (56 percent to 43 percent); voters under 30 (66 percent to 32 percent); African-American voters (95 percent to 4 percent); Latino voters (66 percent to 32 percent); first-time voters (68 percent to 31 percent); and voters making less than $100,000 a year (55 percent to 43 percent).


Leaves only the majority of white men over the age of 30 and those making more than $100,000 for McCain.

[groovlstk]

On the foreign policy front our enemies are rejoicing and our allies are nervous.

That's what got GWB elected a second time but there's absolutely nothing to support this view, in fact more and more it looks just the opposite.

[msmoby_ru]

Must be an Italian thing... this "TANNED" analogy..

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has provoked criticism for describing Barack Obama as "young, handsome, and tanned".
He made the remarks after a meeting with the Russian president in Moscow.
Opposition politicians in Italy said Mr Berlusconi's remarks about the US president-elect were at worst, racist and at best, undiplomatic.

Mr Berlusconi shrugged off the criticism, saying those who disagreed with him were humourless "imbeciles".

Mr Berlusconi made the quip at a news conference with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.
''Obama is young, handsome and also tanned, so he has all the qualities to agree with you,'' he told the Russian leader, speaking in Italian through a translator.
The Italian news agency Ansa said Mr Berlusconi later defended the remark, calling it "a great compliment".
Responding to a reporter's suggestion that the remark might be misunderstood, he accused his opponents of not having a sense of humour.
''God save us from imbeciles,'' he added.
Gaffe prone
The Italian leader has a history of public gaffes.
On his first meeting with Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen in 2002, Berlusconi complimented him with the words: "Mr Rasmussen is not only a great colleague, he's also the best-looking prime minister in Europe."
He added: "He's so good looking, I'm even thinking of introducing him to my wife."
He sparked a minor diplomatic incident in 2005 by suggesting he had wooed Finnish President Tarja Halonen to ensure her backing for Italy to host the European Food Safety Authority.
"I had to use all my playboy tactics, even if they have not been used for some time," he said, prompting Helsinki to call in the Italian ambassador to explain the comments.

I'm not getting through to you, apparently .Your personal opinion.

NOPE You're trying to laugh you careless remark off... ... it seems the Italians are as offended, by someone who could claim this type of comment was "witty"...

Do you also maintain that the historically-unprecedented fact of the first US President in 200+ years not being white should be hushed over and not be mentioned AT ALL ? Or can you suggest a non-racist-sounding way of doing it that meets with your approval ?

Sandro, don't even try to insult my or anyone else's intelligence ... non white, Black is *not* what you said.. it was "deeply tanned" .. something that isn't even scientifically correct.  Saying non-white, or black wouldn't be "witty" - would it? ...

You wish to think I'm a racist ? Alright, fine with me, I'm not going to lose much sleep over that. Let's not bore the membership further with this pointless discussion.

Yes, let's "pretend" it didn't happen and we'll hope that you and "Mr B" can bask in the light of your "harmless wit"....

[SANDRO43]

Must be an Italian thing... this "TANNED" analogy.. Opposition politicians in Italy said Mr Berlusconi's remarks about the US president-elect were at worst, racist and at best, undiplomatic.

NOPE You're trying to laugh you careless remark off... ... it seems the Italians are as offended, by someone who could claim this type of comment was "witty"...

2nd time you're harping on Italians in a few lines, you're beginning to sound, hmm, 'biased' towards us ? At least, this is the impression you're creating .

... non white, Black is *not* what you said.. it was "deeply tanned"

Never said I did. Would you have had no complaint with these alternatives ?

.. something that isn't even scientifically correct.

And this is the 3rd time you are obsessed with scientific accuracy, as if it had anything to do with the matter, even remotely.

Saying non-white, or black wouldn't be "witty" - would it? ...

But less PC, possibly ?

Yes, let's "pretend" it didn't happen and we'll hope that you and "Mr B" can bask in the light of your "harmless wit"....

Of course, 'basking in the light' is all I care about, even though, regrettably, I'll not bask in yours, which wounds me deeply . And thank you for your immense generosity in letting me off this hook, the pain was unbearable .

May we continue this profound discussion in PMs, if at all necessary, and stop boring the audience of this thread with a personal squabble patently of no general interest, as well as grossly off topic ?

[Gator]

Now we now who writes much of Berlusconi's material.  Does it pay well, Sandro?

Actually, I think it is entirely an attempt at humor and not racist.  The American social circles are filled with such comments and jokes, although we avoid saying them in public.

CNN has a somewhat different spin:

Berlusconi appeared visibly annoyed after a Friday summit of European Union leaders when reporters questioned him about the possible political fallout of the comments he made Thursday in Russia.

The outspoken Italian leader appeared to be joking when he said Obama "has everything needed in order to reach deals with him: he's young, handsome and even tanned."

Berlusconi later said the remark was meant to be "cute" and called those who disagreed "imbeciles, of which there are too many."

He once compared a German lawmaker to a Nazi camp guard, asserted after the September 11 terror attacks that Western civilization was superior to Islam.  More recently he said the new Spanish government had too many women.

Further comment between Mark and Sandro probably is best made not in PMs but in a CNN blog, "Why Berlusconi is not Racist."  The blog starts with the comment,

Berlusconi may be unfit to rule, as The Economist once famously wrote, but he is not a racist.

Berlusconi described the U.S. president-elect as 'young, handsome and even tanned.'
His controversial policies on illegal immigration do not make him a racist. His tough stance on security and crime is not racist. Racism is something uglier, deeply and profoundly entrenched in the bigotry of some human beings. Berlusconi is not one of them.

http://inthefield.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/07/why-berlusconi-is-not-a-racist/

[felix8787]

To Mark and Sandro,
Coming from a both sides of the race issue, me personally....I am first and foremost a human being, second I am an American and third I am of whatever ethical nationality that I am, which is spanish, asian with of course my great grandfather being a native Italian. I don't go around with the Puerto Rico flag and praising that I am a Puerto Rican, acutally I am far from that, if I were to show flags, it would be the American flag, because that is what I am an American.

I have been called all of it....it used to bother me when I was younger, then I realize, they are just words and nothing more. To take it personally would mean to me that I have some sort of deep seated hatred of someone other then my race. If I were to hate someone it is because of their actions and not just words.

My best friend who is black on the election night texted me and said "We did it", of course I asked "did what?" He goes, elect BO (body odor?)(just kidding  ) into office, then I asked him......."I hope you didn't elect him just because he is black?"
Yes it is a historical moment for US to elect the first African American to presidency, but why all of the fuss over his skin color, are people still that affriad of a black man? Hell Obman to me isn't even black, his mom is white, so that would make him a bi-racial president elect. Instead of saying that he is a black man, why can't people say that he is bi-racial president because in actuality that is what he is.

So what if Sandro said that he is "deeply tanned", it doesn't effect me. But if he were to say something to the effect of hate and kill then that would be a problem with me, because now he is talking about hating and killing a human being based on his skin color. I am sorry to say that this mentality still exist in society all over.

felix8787

[docetae]

This all politically correct thing is really annoying me ...

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acVqHjMQFq4[/youtube]

[BC]

I just don't get it.. Obama is just as much white as he is black.. so what's the big deal anyway about insisting he is black?

Not to turn this into a race thread, just interested as to how such is interpreted.