Survey Results - Third Question: Causes of Divorce

[Vaughn]

Dan,

 In the original survey, where 40% of respondents were actually divorced - were those surveyed
all ex-husbands, ex-wives, or a mix of both? If the latter, was it close to 50/50?

  It seems logical, given human nature, that while an AM (for example only) might claim there were
communication troubles - his former FSU wife might claim he was quite a control freak....often there
are contradictory reasons claimed.

[Admin]

Dan,

 In the original survey, where 40% of respondents were actually divorced - were those surveyed
all ex-husbands, ex-wives, or a mix of both? If the latter, was it close to 50/50?

  It seems logical, given human nature, that while an AM (for example only) might claim there were
communication troubles - his former FSU wife might claim he was quite a control freak....often there
are contradictory reasons claimed.

Vaughn,

I am not sure of your question. The awareness campaign for the survey was to make a broad dissemination through email, and to make press releases and other internet announcements. We have no way of knowing if any of the respondents had previously been married to one another - or still are married to one another. We did a check of IP addresses to insure there were not a bunch of responses coming from the same IP - but unless there was a clear issue with obvious abuse (there was not, BTW), we accepted the responses.

In terms of the fundamental demographic of respondents, they are almost exactly 50 % that had been previously divorced PRIOR to entering into their marriage to a cross-cultural spouse.

Since I doubt that I addressed your question properly, can you please ask me again?

- Dan

[Vaughn]

I wasn't necessarily asking if both members of a marriage (or former marriage) responded - but to ask
if the entire pool of those surveyed was equally represented by males and females... if that is even known.

Gender specificity.

[Admin]

I wasn't necessarily asking if both members of a marriage (or former marriage) responded - but to ask
if the entire pool of those surveyed was equally represented by males and females... if that is even known.

Gender specificity.

Vaughn,

See attached graphic.

- Dan

[Bruce]

I know comming up with these surveys / poll is very hard.  However, I strongly believe the choice "Wife had an agenda from the start" should have been a choice.

[vwrw]

You raise the issue of causality. We looked at that issue, and as best we could (nothing is perfect) tried to establish independent variables for the survey responses.

Dan, please note that I expressed my astonishment with the fact that some people consider the lack of the desire to communicate as one of the biggest contributors, NOT with the fact of inclusion this contributor into your list.

Is the lack of the desire to communicate a contributor? YES
Is it the biggest contributor? NO

To my mind the biggest contributors to a divorce are those ones elimination of which might preserve marriage. Elimination of the lack of the desire to communicate or infidelity
would not automatically lead to the elimination of the problems that caused it. Hence, marriage would continue to be under a danger of decay.   

On the other hand, removal of contributors such as differences in family goals or lack of commitment, and so on would preserve marriage.

[vwrw]

Could anybody enlighten me about  what incompatible cultural differences one would bear in his/her mind when selecting it as biggest contributor?

[Gator]

Could anybody enlighten me about  what incompatible cultural differences one would bear in his/her mind when selecting it as biggest contributor?

Good question.  You would think such a conflict would have been evident prior to marriage, e.g., religious vs. heathen.

[BC]

Could anybody enlighten me about  what incompatible cultural differences one would bear in his/her mind when selecting it as biggest contributor?

IMHO it has more to do with cultural mentality than culture itself.

Here some examples:

She makes me take my shoes off.
She won't wave or blow a kiss standing inside the doorway.
I can't whistle inside the house.
I think for the future and she thinks for the day.
Discussions are to be enjoyed.. the louder they get the better they are.
Mustard powder in my socks will help me get over my cold as will hot milk with butter and honey.

but... I have found true heaven.... I can leave the toilet seat up!

[vwrw]

Good question.  You would think such a conflict would have been evident prior to marriage, e.g., religious vs. heathen.

Gator, I am sorry, I did not grasp what you  said.  :selfharm:
Did you mean that the incompatible cultural differences would become quickly evident as it usually happens with  incompatible differences in perspectives of religious people vs. heathen? Alternatively, did you mean that WM are religious and FSUw are heathen and that is why representatives of these two cultures may not be compatible?

I personally think that differences between cultures may not be proved incompatible since a lot of people have succeeded to reconcile the differences in their marriages. 

[vwrw]

IMHO it has more to do with cultural mentality than culture itself.

Here some examples:

She makes me take my shoes off.
She won't wave or blow a kiss standing inside the doorway.
I can't whistle inside the house.
I think for the future and she thinks for the day.
Discussions are to be enjoyed.. the louder they get the better they are.
Mustard powder in my socks will help me get over my cold as will hot milk with butter and honey.

but... I have found true heaven.... I can leave the toilet seat up!

BC, even if the listed examples were peculiarities of FSUw’s mentality, the fact that you and your wife are able to coexist is a proof that the Russian mentality is compatible with American.

[SANDRO43]

will help me get over my cold as will hot milk with butter and honey.

That's not an FSU exclusive, I remember being treated with it (sans the butter) as a kid. Scott may help us here, IINM the milk/honey combination is an emollient (softener) mixture that usually soothes irritation of the upper respiratory ways, hence relieves some symptoms of a cold (sore throat), but obviously does not cure the cause itself (viral infection) .

On a side note, when I worked for a pharmaceutical company, I discovered the existence of a category of substances (carminatives? can't remember the exact name ) like alcohol, which were added in small quantities to cough syrups for just the opposite effect, i.e. a mild irritation: one would take a spoonful of syrup, feel his/her throat tingling and conclude "Ah, this works, I can feel it!" .

The mysteries of marketing .

[ScottinCrimea]

You're right on. Sandro.  The honey does nothing to cure the infection but instead acts as a coating agent to sooth the discomfort.  Other agents such as lemon juice and warm salt water decrease the mucus that contains chemicals that promote an inflamatory response.  In addition, the salt will draw out some of the edema in the throat.  One thing you have to be cautious of is the idea (not limited to RW but I think more pronounced with them) that if a little is good, more is better.

[SANDRO43]

One thing you have to be cautious of is the idea (not limited to RW but I think more pronounced with them) that if a little is good, more is better.

Yes, I mentioned spoonfuls, not LITERS or worse yet GALLONS . The latter a word which, for some strange mental association, always reminds me of gAllons enfants de la Patrie !!

[Vaughn]

Could anybody enlighten me about  what incompatible cultural differences one would bear in his/her mind when selecting it as biggest contributor?

It was not one of my own three choices - but I often witness trouble brewing in others' kitchens,
literally. There are not too many foods that I cannot enjoy - so my wife, in addition to learning
how to prepare what we perceive as American dishes, really enjoys serving me what she is very
proficient at - Russian fare. That doesn't go over so well in all AM/RW households. Is it fair to
assume that AM generally do not seek FSU brides for those great salads they craft?

Sandro, we have men here who for the most part, eat only beef and potatoes - and when they
appear at our home for supper, we make sure there's something for them to enjoy.

How willing the bride and groom are to tolerate and accept changes in their habits and lifestyle
is key in overcoming those differences. It's difficult for some candidates to even give an inch.

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, we have men here who for the most part, eat only beef and potatoes

Vaughn, I pity them for ignoring the Mediterranean diet, a US discovery since 1945, after all (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet) .

[Vaughn]

Vaughn, I pity them...

Oh, Sandro, so do I. Imagine losing a wonderful woman over a meatloaf and boiled potato habit?
They really should be courtiing ladies in the hills of Ireland.

[Misha]

How willing the bride and groom are to tolerate and accept changes in their habits and lifestyle
is key in overcoming those differences. It's difficult for some candidates to even give an inch.

I agree with you. There are some people who should not date internationally and this applies to both men and women. I personally love all Russian food (with the exception of grechka) and my wife is open to trying all foods.

[Turboguy]

Personally I doubt if "Cultural Differences" in the true meaning ever is a factor in divorce.

I can see it now.

The judge says,  So you two want a divorce and what are the reasons for the divorce?   The man answers, she puts mustard powder in my socks and feeds me borsch.   The judge says,  Didn't she feed you borsh when you went to see her in Russia?   The man answers, Yes, I think she may have but she was wearing a low cut dress and I didn't notice what she was feeding me.

Now, perhaps enough mustard powder could get me thinking about divorce but otherwise, I just can't see this as a viable motivator.

Maybe, since the survey is all foreign born women if someone married a girl from a head hunting tribe for Borneo or an Asian lass whose dinners consisted of the neighbors cats, then maybe. 

I think the factor that may have floated into someones mind in selecting this option was really difficulty adjusting to life in a new culture, living abroad, life away from their family, and friends, life where they had communication problems and where their hard earned education may have qualified them for little more than a job at McDonalds.   That factor probably plays a key part in peoples decisions to divorce but it is not the same factor as the survey question.

I think anyone divorcing over borsh, needing to take shoes off, and having to look in the mirror before we leave if we forget something and have to go back is almost non existant.   After all we get to forget about the toilet seat and that makes the trade off a bargain. 

[Doll]

The man answers, she puts mustard powder in my socks and feeds me borsch.

[Admin]

This is one of the questions in which there was a great disparity in gender responses. There are two numbers in the cells - the first number is the mean score of all responses, and the number inside the parens is the ranking of that number relative to the other scores.

	Finances	Sex	Abuse	Infidelity	Children	Family	Stress	Language	Cultural	Communication	Commitment	Goals
Men	2.45(6)	2.62(4)	1.96(10)	2.55(5)	1.61(12)	2.04(9)	2.39(7)	1.62(11)	2.11(8)	2.83(3)	3.24(1)	3.04(2)
Women	2.65(6)	2.67(5)	3.24(1)	2.27(9)	1.75(11)	2.12(10)	2.73(4)	1.55(12)	2.41(8)	2.73(3)	2.53(7)	3.00(2)

Note the remarkable consistency between the rankings, save for two items that were nearly polar opposite.

- Dan

[GoodOlBoy]

No surprises here!! Men don't see abuse, BUT women do (especially MENTAL abuse).

And when it comes to commitment we all know how women embrace commitment and men, well, we seem to run from it like a "ball and chain". 

IMHO, these are not only gender perception issues, they are deep social issues.

[Co6aka]

... they call them "VILLAGES" ...

 

"It's like VILLAGE!!!"  Oh man, if I had a dime for every time I had that one thrown in my face I could retire to Seychelles!  Except NYC ain't no small town.

Here's what led to my divorce, that and I had to call the cops on her once (needed to call more than one but didn't):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

Two different psychologists, both Russian-speaking, and she refused to address anything.  The psychs were "stupid" and in fact all psychs are "stupid," and the first thing I did wrong was being born, with the most recent being that I'm still alive.  She did finally enter therapy with our neighbor's wife (AW) whose professional qualifications are a high school diploma and a troubled marriage.  So finally after way too long I filed for divorce.  Good riddance, but not soon enough.

How she got me was, she lied to herself until she believed her own lies.  She even got herself.

How do you weed these types out?

[Admin]

"It's like VILLAGE!!!"  Oh man, if I had a dime for every time I had that one thrown in my face I could retire to Seychelles!  Except NYC ain't no small town.

Here's what led to my divorce, that and I had to call the cops on her once (needed to call more than one but didn't):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

Two different psychologists, both Russian-speaking, and she refused to address anything.  The psychs were "stupid" and in fact all psychs are "stupid," and the first thing I did wrong was being born, with the most recent being that I'm still alive.  She did finally enter therapy with our neighbor's wife (AW) whose professional qualifications are a high school diploma and a troubled marriage.  So finally after way too long I filed for divorce.  Good riddance, but not soon enough.

How she got me was, she lied to herself until she believed her own lies.  She even got herself.

How do you weed these types out?

>>the first thing I did wrong was being born, with the most recent being that I'm still alive.<<

Gotta say, that had me LOL. Sounds familiar (sadly).

>>How do you weed these types out?<<

In a word --- facetime - and it's not foolproof.

- Dan

[Co6aka]

In a word --- facetime - and it's not foolproof.

See, that's the thing, when you believe your own BS you can fool a polygraph, and even me.

Yeah, facetime, lots of it.  IF... I were to do this again I'd stay for 6-8 weeks at a time, every 6-8 weeks, for a long time.  Dunno exactly which direction to go, the alternative, AW, are a sad pathetic bunch -- now I remember why I did this the first time.

BUT... an indication of stupidity is the repetition of the same mistake with the expectation of a different result.

Is just ONE good woman too much to want for... sigh.   

Any good monasteries around?