Dating Non-English Speakers: Opinions please

[Misha]

Ranetka, for me it more looks like a difference in interests than in culture 

I agree. It is always fascinating when people attribute to culture what are really individual differences whether interests or personality.

[Ranetka]

I agree. It is always fascinating when people attribute to culture what are really individual differences whether interests or personality.

The culture regarding classics car (rather than antique,I should have said ours was m=nearly classic) is prctically non-existent in Russia. Prior moving to the UK I had not got a clue that someone can be proud of 18 years old car.

Beside cultural is only a small problem. My point is it is when language ability is limited people can imagine more that actually said.

When my ex was telling me on the ICQ he likes to walk on the beach I thought he likes outdoors. Little did I know it is a clishe from dating sites and can mean everything or nothing at all. Now is this cultural or personal?

[Misha]

When my ex was telling me on the ICQ he likes to walk on the beach I thought he likes outdoors. Little did I know it is a clishe from dating sites and can mean everything or nothing at all. Now is this cultural or personal?

Both. The fact that he needed to use a cliché says a lot about him. Similar to the women on Russian dating sites who write that they are waiting for their knight on a white horse.

[Blues Fairy]

Some women probably will consider such things as some kind of cultural difference and miss the main information and after they will wonder why their life with a man doesn't answer their expectation

That's why I always say that no excuses should ever be made based on cultural differences or the mythical "national character"; if you see somebody who writes like an idiot, talks like and idiot and walks like an idiot than, chances are... maybe it's NOT just a cultural difference! 

[Tamara]

The culture regarding classics car (rather than antique,I should have said ours was m=nearly classic) is prctically non-existent in Russia. Prior moving to the UK I had not got a clue that someone can be proud of 18 years old car.

Ranetka, great point about cars!    I did not realize it up until I got married to my husband.  He collects old GTO's and is all into restoring them, shows, car meetings.  I now understand many things about cars as well and like the old Muscle Cars.

[OlgaH]

That's why I always say that no excuses should ever be made based on cultural differences or the mythical "national character"; if you see somebody who writes like an idiot, talks like and idiot and walks like an idiot than, chances are... maybe it's NOT just a cultural difference! 

I agree with you, that idiots are idiots even in Africa, in Russia and in any countries  But I don't agree regarding a "national character" that is forming during centuries under such factors as geographical area, politics, culture customs, traditions and so on 

http://analiculturolog.ru/index.php?module=subjects&func=viewpage&pageid=386

http://tatar.uz/articles.php?lng=ru&pg=770

You can find many interesting work about it since Herodotus time  of course if you are interested. And it also helps to distinguish the cultural difference from simply personal 
 

[Sculpto]

I wonder how a person decides who is an idiot and who is not. 

Wasn't there a discussion of pride earlier today?

[OlgaH]

The culture regarding classics car (rather than antique,I should have said ours was m=nearly classic) is prctically non-existent in Russia. Prior moving to the UK I had not got a clue that someone can be proud of 18 years old car.

Beside cultural is only a small problem. My point is it is when language ability is limited people can imagine more that actually said.

When my ex was telling me on the ICQ he likes to walk on the beach I thought he likes outdoors. Little did I know it is a clishe from dating sites and can mean everything or nothing at all. Now is this cultural or personal?

Ranetka, I'm not sure about a 18 y.o. car being an antique but maybe just antic      probably because as I have said I know nothing about cars, just a little-little,  but I can understand the sentimental feelings even to antic things   I know some people in my city in Russia who have antique cars like "Pobeda" (1950) and other I can not recall its name. But their cars looks like a candy   and they are very proudly racing around our city.  

We have our own antique car lovers in Russia.
http://www.kommersant.ru/doc-rss.aspx?DocsID=186065  

I agree with Misha about cliché. I like how Salvador Dali said regarding a cliché: "The first man to compare the cheeks of a young woman to a rose was obviously a poet; the first to repeat it was possibly an idiot".

If a man told me that he likes to walk on the beach, I would rather understand he likes to walk on the beach, because I also like to walk on the beach and I prefer the quiet and not so crowded beaches. One of my favorite beaches that is not so far from us is Ross Witham Beach, you can look at photos in our Photo albums, and you will see why I love that place   But if he said me later that it was just a cliché, I would place him in front of me, direct the light in his eyes (you know в глаза смотреть, я сказала! в глаза   ) and "torture" him about all his other clichés. For me it would be personal, I would not like to live with cliche, more over when if it would be a total lie. But I would understand his explanation regarding the idiom.  

[OlgaH]

I wonder how a person decides who is an idiot and who is not. 

 

http://www.tbonix.com/blog/2005/07/idiot-king.html

[Chicagoguy]

On Friday I went with my Russian/Chicago friends to the Chicago Auto Show. It is the biggest in attendence and gets over 1 million visitors each year.

But the most fun part was her parents are visiting from Kazakhstan and they really loved the old classic cars. Wood station wagon, 1957 Chevy Bel Aire, Auburn, Dusenburg and top fuel dragster. It was all so new to them 

[SANDRO43]

If you're into antique car (pre-1958) racing, you could participate in this year's (May 13 to May 17) MILLE MIGLIA (http://www.1000miglia.eu/inglese/home.html), entrance fee is only €5,775.00 (VAT included) .

[Gator]

If you're into antique car (pre-1958) racing, you could participate in this year's (May 13 to May 17) MILLE MIGLIA (http://www.1000miglia.eu/inglese/home.html), entrance fee is only €5,775.00 (VAT included) .

I was there in 2007.  It was so special that my RW companion enjoyed herself immensely amid rich men (and a few rich women), loud cars, and party atmosphere.  The MILLE MIGLIA formerly was  a famous single lap road race through Tuscany that was discontinued due to the deaths of spectators and replaced with the current rally of vintage racing cars.  (See photos)

[Gator]

I wonder how a person decides who is an idiot and who is not. 

You can read my book, I'm OK, You're an Idiot.   

[kryten41]

When my ex was telling me on the ICQ he likes to walk on the beach I thought he likes outdoors. Little did I know it is a clishe from dating sites and can mean everything or nothing at all. Now is this cultural or personal?

It sounds personal to me--if an American told me she likes to walk on the beach, I would expect her to actually like to walk on the beach. 

[OlgaH]

You can read my book, I'm OK, You're an Idiot.   

It's right here (at the bottom of the page) 
The author shows that the human psyche is divided into three parts: the adult, the child, and the total idiot.
http://flowstate.homestead.com/sexselfhelp.html

[SANDRO43]

The MILLE MIGLIA formerly was a famous single lap road race through Tuscany

More accurately, a Brescia-Rome-Brescia round trip (attached: the 1954 route) .

[Gator]

That's why I always say that no excuses should ever be made based on cultural differences or the mythical "national character"; if you see somebody who writes like an idiot, talks like and idiot and walks like an idiot than, chances are... maybe it's NOT just a cultural difference! 

Idiotic behavior is not a cultural difference.

Here are 10 examples of misunderstandings that could derive from cultural differences:

A RW saying she does not smoke yet lights up a few times during the evening, or claiming to be only a social drinker yet eagerly downing a few at a family party.

A RW wearing a cross as a necklace yet has not been inside a church more than once per year. 

An RW showing disdain over anything used and old (such as cars) because such reminds them of bad times.  

A RW interpreting an AM's smile as agreement.

An RW believing a man is not financially stable if he has a mortgage.

An AM not knowing what a shower means in combination with her expectation that he take the lead.

An AM assuming a RW must be over 140 because she lists in her profile that she weighs 130.

An AM talking in what seems to be a loud tone.

An AM not receiving a RW's signal that she really likes something and would appreciate his buying it for her.  

An AM wearing what he considers comfortable clothing when his RW date suggests a walk around the city.  
  

[Sculpto]

Dostoevsky once wrote that in The Idiot his idea was to portray “a beautiful man”.

[Misha]

A RW saying she does not smoke yet lights up a few times during the evening, or claiming to be only a social drinker yet eagerly downing a few at a family party.

I know a few Canadian women who will say the same thing. Then again, was it Clinton who said he did not smoke marijuana because he did not inhale.

A RW wearing a cross as a necklace yet has not been inside a church more than once per year. 

Again, could find many Canadians who fall into this category as well.

An RW showing disdain over anything used and old (such as cars) because such reminds them of bad times.  

Some, not all. Wife fall into this category.

A RW interpreting an AM's smile as agreement.

True, North Americans smile more, but RW catch on quickly enough.

An RW believing a man is not financially stable if he has a mortgage.

Was true 5, 10 years ago, but Russians understand the concept of mortgage and loans as many have to pay off their own bills.

An AM not knowing what a shower means in combination with her expectation that he take the lead.

Haven't the foggiest what you mean here. Must be cultural 

An AM assuming a RW must be over 140 because she lists in her profile that she weighs 130.

Never assumed this, but then again I never really paid any attention to the weight category.

An AM talking in what seems to be a loud tone.

And Russians don't talk in loud tones?

An AM not receiving a RW's signal that she really likes something and would appreciate his buying it for her.  

Some people are less receptive to those cues than others. Not necessarily cultural.

An AM wearing what he considers comfortable clothing when his RW date suggests a walk around the city.  

Don't get what you mean here either.

[ScottinCrimea]

Misha,  Not the foggiest idea what it means when a RW asks to take a shower?   

I want to get back to the theme of this thread:

I have now had the "joy" of two transition experiences so feel I am in a unique position to offer my opinion.  With my wife, we had known each other for four years, lived together for two years and her English was quite good. Because of this, we didn't have to go through the adjustment to a life together as well as a life in another culture at the same time.  Despite all of this, the transition and adjustment to the US took a lot of patience and there were many frustrations and tears involved (not all hers).  Even 18 months down the road, the adjustment is not complete.

Now her daughter is here. She is 17 years old, not so much older than the girls some here want to bring over,, and if they claim there is a world of difference between a 17 year old and a 21 year old I will counter that there is also a world of difference between a 21 year old and a 25 year old.  Her English is minimal.  I have known her since she was 12 years old and we shared the same roof for two years, so again, the relationship is set and doesn't require much of an adjustment.

Now comparing what we are going through with her transition to the US with what we went through with her mother, I simply cannot imagine how it would have been if I had brought a woman here who I barely knew and who spoke little or no English.  Even speaking reasonable Russian myself, we struggle at times to communicate and for someone to have to rely on an electronic translator each time they want to sit down and have a long meaningful conversation is just not realistic.  Even explaining the most basic things takes work and patience.

Where my wife was able to drive almost immediately, socialize and even find work very quickly, thus being fairly independent quickly, with our daughter she will be totally dependent on us in every way for quite some time.  She will be enrolled in the local community college for English classes this week, but no one there speaks Russian, so she will be totally lost for awhile.  If she was stuck in our place with nothing to do but watch US television and keep the home "cozy", she would go nuts in no time.

So, based on my experience, I will stand clearly on the side of those who say one should not even think about bringing someone over with limited English skills, so why even date them?  If you argue that she can learn English and be fluent enough by the time the K-1 process is completed to function in the US, I will respectfully disagree.  There is much more involved than just learning English - adjusting to a new relationship, a new country, a new culture, etc. that can't even begin until they arrive here, and the less the English skills, the more difficult the adjustment.

[Daveman]

Excellent points, Scott.. looking forward to hearing more of your adjustment stories as her (and your) situation progresses.

Really, really really really, unless someone really thrives in situations which are reMARKable pains in the popka, plans to date for at least a year while she really breaks her neck to study English (and only then begin the paperwork for the K-1), willing to discover incompatibility issues unrelated to the communication frustration which could creep up at any time -- and be willing to walk away at that point, regardless of the time spent thus far --- stay away from this crazy situation.  The chances/odds for making it all the way from meeting to marriage (with someone who is NOT a stranger) -- and then also hitting the 5 year marriage milestone is pretty freakin' slim.  Regardless of gut instinct, if you marry her prior to sharing a common she WILL be a stranger, you WILL be rationalizing many aspects, you WILL be marrying a vision in your dreams which will vary obnoxiously from reality... 

I might try it again under the influence of some serious narcotics, but other than that... nahhhhhhhhhhh!

[Misha]

Misha,  Not the foggiest idea what it means when a RW asks to take a shower?   

Well, the women I knew were more than happy to tell me if they wanted sex without have to resort to euphemisms. Maybe it is a hint for the older gentleman to take their blue pills while she is taking a shower  :noidea:

[ScottinCrimea]

Misha, At risk of repeating myself---lighten up!

[Daveman]

Well, the women I knew were more than happy to tell me if they wanted sex without have to resort to euphemisms. Maybe it is a hint for the older gentleman to take their blue pills while she is taking a shower  :noidea:

The vacuum cleaner is fast(er) acting and available without a prescription... 

[ScottinCrimea]

The vacuum cleaner is fast(er) acting and available without a prescription... 

I said 'lighten up", not "suck it up".