Adultery & Divorce - Do Russian Women ever get deported?

[c5driver]

Thank Maxx.

Proving the marriage was a sham should be easy. I will give them the phone number of 2 or 3 of my neigbors/friends that saw her kissing/hugging boyfriend. I also have incriminating emails which I will bring.

I also have my divorce petition and her response to it (it has her boyfriends address on it, so we know they live together).

I found this info on change of address at http://www.legalpaladin.com/resources/visa.htm:

"B. As a green cardholder, you are expected to be law abiding. Because you were not born with the right to stay in the United States and have not yet been naturalized, the immigration laws put certain restrictions on you which do not apply to American citizens.

1. Failing to report a change of address Although the INS usually looks the other way when a green cardholder fails to report a change of address, the immigration law provides that an alien who fails to give written notice to the INS of a change of address can be deported. Not only that, the alien could be charged with a misdemeanor and if found guilty, fined up to $200, imprisoned up to 30 days, or both.
The alien would have to convince the immigration judge during deportation hearings that failing to notify the INS of an address change was reasonably excusable or was not willful."

She clearly violated this. I wonder if they USCIS will do anything, though.

[Bruno]

[user=488]c5driver[/user] wrote:

an alien who fails to give written notice to the INS of a change of address can be deported.

c5driver, it is only my personal meaning but my priority will be the divorce... specialy a divorce where you don't nned give some part of your asset or pay some alimentory money...

The deportation sound a little like a reveange... i can understand it but now, the main priority is to protect yourself... actually , you are always married and your are responsible from her... and here is the more big danger... in so situation think first about yourself and if you wish, think about reveange after...

 

[c5driver]

Bruno,

I made an effort to forgive her for the adultery (which is not easy when she's living down the street with a neighbor). Initially I advised her to have her boyfriend hire an immigration attorney because I didn't want her deported.

The issue is her repeatedly trying to blackmail me by threatening to make the divorce difficult if I didn't lie to get her a green card. This I won't forgive. The blackmail is conspiricy to commit fraud, which I reported to the government.

My immigration attorney advised me to keep the USCIS informed of her behavior, which I did.

Ending a 4 month marriage (with a prenup no less) to a reasonable woman (who doesn't contest it) should be simple - no money changes hands, sign the papers, etc. My RW refuses to do this because she has the bright idea of try to blackmail me into getting her green card. Again, if she just sign the papers and left, I would not have gone to the government.

With an unreasonable woman the same 4 month marriage (who contests it) can take several months, a couple of court hearings, and perhaps thousands in legal fees (though ultimately she'd probably get no money for herself).

Of course, if she were to relocate to Russia, the divorce would effectively become uncontested and be easier. Of course this may not happen.

Remember too that I'm obligated to reimburse the government for any benefits (welfare, etc) she collects before she becomes a citizen (though according to what I've read on the boards this isn't enforced, but it could be in the future). Why do I want this liablity??????

I don't want to be her sponser. Her BF can be her sponser - that's fine.

Also, she's living down the street, which doesn't make it easier for me.

c5driver

[Bruno]

[user=488]c5driver[/user] in my case, all was more easy... i have make the marriage in Russia but he was register officially in Belgium... my real main power was that i have married in Russia with a false document... so, i was able to invalid these marriage... and i have use it against her during our divorce... two time to the justice court, delay between the two time was six month, and 52 euro fee... the lawer of my work have ready all document for nothing... in some way, i was happy in my misluck... Only several year loose and a brooken heart... we have not the "Damocles sword" ( DV ) in Belgium ...

[c5driver]

... we have not the "Damocles sword" ( DV ) in Belgium ...

Bruno,

In that respect Belgium is much more advanced than America. I know that there are legitimate cases of violence against women, and in some cases it is just to give abused women residency. But the DV system in America is heavily weighted against men and requires little evidence...

[Bruno]

[user=488]c5driver[/user] wrote:

In that respect Belgium is much more advanced than America.

Nope, we are not more advanced that USA, in reality, we are like USA was 20 year ago... i am sure that our next step will be to copy the actual USA... A chance that we have now the european court... very long delay but used always the same old method... if you accuse someone, you need real evidence...

You see, all was more easy for our politic and social system when it was the capitalist block ( US ) and the socialist one ( USSR )... now, our only example is USA... politic men try to apply US system in Europe but it seem that citizen don't accept it...

PS : Don't make a trip via Belgium the 28/10 ... the country will be fully paralysed... the worker people will be blocking all the country for protest against our actual liberal gouverment... so, no plane...

[Maxx]

The deportation sound a little like a reveange... i can understand it but now, the main priority is to protect yourself...

Yes Bruno has great points. You do not want that this to look like revenge to any government/law enforcement individual you talkwith. I UNDERSTAND about the real reason for you .... justice. But they don't look for a higher ideal just base motives on your part. I was probed even by my attorney (retired INS director) as to my true motive, revenge or justice. I felt that using fraud to enter the country should NOT be rewarded with US Citizenship and tarnishing my name to get it. In other words not revenge but justice. Anytime anyone at the BCIS (what it was called then) or my attorney who worked with them tried to see what my motives were I stated these beliefs. So if they paint you a word picture of her maybe being arrested, handcuffed and led off to a holding cell do not grin and act happy..... Keep a poker face.

Tomorrow you may be probed to see if she had reason to flee you. Such as your being emotionally abusive. So you need to be on your toes. As example me. After 3 hours of questions the investigator suddenly asked me "Did you abuse your wife?" and she watched my facial expression when I answered "No". Remember, I was the one who pressed for the investigation.

Good luck,

Maxx

  

 

[c5driver]

Thanks Maxx,

I'll try to make it clear that I still had feelings for her and didn't even turn her in for the adultery. I turned her in after she and her boyfriend repeatedly blackmailed me. I wonder how much they'll bring up DV.

She actually sent me an email apologizing for her behavior and saying I was a good, kind man. I will try to use this as evidence that I was not abusive to her.

c5driver

[Maxx]

[user=488]c5driver[/user] wrote:

She actually sent me an email apologizing for her behavior and saying I was a good, kind man. I will try to use this as evidence that I was not abusive to her.

c5driver

That is powerful evidence in your favor. I would expect that when she is questioned she will give some excuse about why she left you. You can imagine what excuse that will be. However giving the CIS that e-mail printout prior to them confronting her will help them in believing or not her only justifiable excuse. Besides, does she need to turn to another man for support when she could go to a woman's shelter instead? She's on the hot seat.

Maxx

 

 

[RacerX]

So if they paint you a word picture of her maybe being arrested, handcuffed and led off to a holding cell do not grin and act happy..... Keep a poker face.
 

Although I know you may be thinking of your particular case, Maxx, with C5 there is no evidence of visa fraud I have seen and furthermore she is fully in status until after the AOS interview.  Her praising of C5 sounds like a woman who still has some feelings for him.  All-in-all it just sounds like two people not suited for each other - the complicating factor is her future immigration status in the US.

She has many routes still available to her and if pressed hard enough (ICE investigation) will realize it's time to avail herself of them.  To an outside observer (me) it sounds like C5 is the 'aggressor' here and is definitely trying to take advantage of her, possibly for use in future divorce litigation [just playing devils advocate].

She hasn't displayed many of those characteristics we expect from a classic GCG - namely a request for $$$, and may/may not have had 'shopping up' as her motivation for coming here - that's something only she and C5 will know.

I dunno: it just seems to me C5, that you are moving too fast for your own good.  FWIW.

[jb]

I dunno, Racer.

If anything, I wonder if c5 has been ruthless enough.  While I agree with much of what you wrote, she still has other options towards citizenship, she did go for a BBD within 4 months.  Sounds pretty much like a "trade-up" girl to me.

c5 still needs to protect himself, but still writes as if he's a love sick puppy with feelings for her and would like her to come home.  IMHO, that would be the worst decision of his life.  She's trash, and he needs to see her in that light of reason.  He made some bad choices, he was not able to discern poor character when he was visiting with her. He'd best to put it all behind him and get on with his life.

[Maxx]

Looking like the Aggressor

RacerX, she seems to me to be a flakey and stupid RW and there are many of those. I know it is real easy to look like the aggressor in these situations. Heck in my DV trial me and my defence council held back the majority of the things she said and did towards me. Why? Because if I told the judge all, it would look like had a strong motive for being abusive to her. I mean "how could any man be patient and kind with a woman like that?" So what I am saying is it is real, real easy to look like the bad guy in these situations.

My guess on her immigration status that unless she gets real smart and creative with DV charges and with a great amount of luck that CIS/ICE decides to not interfer, then she will get a order to leave the USA. There are thousands (probably 10's of? or 100's of?) of those issued and ignored. I know personally of one case locally here of a Mexican man who entered the county illegally* and married a USC. They have two small children together. She has severe heart problems. Severe like in needing a heart transplant. He was asked to come to the CIS service center to receive some help for his immigration status. When he got there they arrested him and deported him back to Mexico. He made his way back from what I understand from a friend. I know these people personally. So the CIS can be rather tough when it wants to be.

* Of course in C5's wife's case she entered the US legally and may have the expensive legal avenues to appeal a deportation order. So who is going to start paying her legal bills? My guess the cost of those is why she and her boyfriend were trying to cut a back room deal with C5. In other words her legal status will be up in the air for years to come and at the cost of many 10's of thousands of dollars to immigration attorneys and court costs. DV is so much cheaper. But that window may have been closed to her for the facts she has 1) not made a complaint (that we know of) over the past several months 2) She is living with a man and not at a shelter 3) The CIS has called her in for questioning. I would think that last one would end her chance at using DV so far after the fact (separation).

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Maxx

 

 

[jb]

Another thing to consider, even a green card holder can be deported.  Having that bit of paper does not give all the rights of citizenship.  This woman is on thin ice and probably knows it.

[Maxx]

c5 still needs to protect himself, but still writes as if he's a love sick puppy with feelings for her and would like her to come home. IMHO, that would be the worst decision of his life. She's trash, and he needs to see her in that light of reason. He made some bad choices, he was not able to discern poor character when he was visiting with her. He'd best to put it all behind him and get on with his life.

Giant Amen to that. However it is not so easy for some to flip a switch and turn off all feelings towards their women. I know it is hard to understand. I just see it so often  I have to wonder if it is hard wired into us not to give up on our loyalities too easily.

1) Taking them back. It would be the worst decision. It would be setting one's self up for a bigger fall.

2) She's trash.  "The woman you love/loved never existed".  I wrote that on my one thread. Having that realization of the woman you love/loved is like a death. Realizing it is like the person you knew has died.

3) Bad choice. A big realization that you are missing a few things in decerning good and bad character. Time to start learning.

4) Moving on.  Divorce in the US takes time (mine 8 months) and getting over all the hits, learning lessons and begining to trust again takes time. It will take time.   

Good post JB

Maxx

[c5driver]

I dunno, Racer.

If anything, I wonder if c5 has been ruthless enough. While I agree with much of what you wrote, she still has other options towards citizenship, she did go for a BBD within 4 months. Sounds pretty much like a "trade-up" girl to me.

jb,

I agree - she definitely looks like a "trade-up" girl to me. So do her friends. I even think her boyfriend is worried that she'll trade him in, too.

[c5driver]

2) She's trash.  "The woman you love/loved never existed".  I wrote that on my one thread. Having that realization of the woman you love/loved is like a death. Realizing it is like the person you knew has died.

Maxx,

I agree. I've told people it's like someone died. She simply wasn't the loyal, loving wife I thought she was. That person never existed. Instead she's a cold, self centered gold digger. I'm accepting that now.

[c5driver]

My interview with the USCIS lasted about 100 minutes. I spoke with the local fraud officer and congressional representative (my father decided to write his congressman). They were very polite and seemed to find everything I said completely credible.

They typed up a sworn statement entitled "Voluntary withdraw of Sponsorship", meaning that I've officially withdraw support from her yet to be approved I-485. They said that means she has no legal status now (she has no sponsor for her I-485).

I told them in detail about her adultery and attempts to bribe/blackmail me into helping her.

They stated that their job is to protect the citizen (unlike the VSC). They seemed to think (rightly so) that she's probably going to go the DV route and file and I-360. In which case her attorney would try to impeach my character. So they asked me a lot of questions involving DV to try to get my answers in the file that will get sent to the VSC. They seemed to be trying to give me a chance to respond to a false DV acusation before the I-360 is filed (because I'm out of the loop once it is filed).

I stated that we had a very civil relationship and that I continued to teach her to drive even (and took her to the circus once) after she moved in with that guy. Obviously she's not living in fear of me. I told them that I continued to pay for her health and car insurance.

More importantly, I gave them a printed copy of the goodbye email my RW gave me:

"Hi honey,
How are you? I worry about you much.
This situation yesterday was terrible for us (both).
I am sad that you saw me with XXXX. Please, not be angry on me. I did
not want lie to you. But this is life. This is my choice.
You are good, nice men. You should be happy. I wish that you'll be. But
you will not happy with me and me too. Sorry.
You were very kind to me. Thank you. I hope you can still be kind,
please. I want be your friend always, if it is possible.
Again sorry me."

I think the "You were very kind to me" and "You are good, nice men" really contradict any possible claim of DV. This is sitting in her file now. I had them type in into my statement, too.

The fraud officer will probably question my RW personally, trying to catch her in lies. She'll probably ask her about DV in the marriage, then possible confront her with this email. She'll also confront her about the bribes/blackmail.

Sounds like she's going to be on the hot seat, and her BF will have some big legal bills.

BTW, I asked them about the VSC. One said she couldn't comment, the other said that the VSC would need real evidence of DV (arrest report, 6 months of Psych treatment report, etc) to grant her I-360 (if she files one, which she's not yet). Then again, this could just be the party line, but it's the same thing my immigration attorney told me. I hoping it's true (though I fear Maxx's info about the USCIS rubber stamping everything might be the truth).

No it's time to put this behind me. Of course, my RW or her BF might continue to call me to try once again to blackmail me into going to her interview (the UCSIC will be notifying her atty today of her interview). If they ask me then I'll go to the interview (the USCIS will put me in a separate room after what they know now). If I go to the interview then they'll hope for a normal GC interview and my RW might get caught in massive lies/fraud. Of course, if they don't ask me to go the interview, I won't offer.

[c5driver]

The USCIS also seemed to state "when she goes to court", and not "if she goes to court". Which seemed to indicated possible deportation hearings, perhaps. Again, they anticipated an I-360 filing.

[c5driver]

* Of course in C5's wife's case she entered the US legally and may have the expensive legal avenues to appeal a deportation order. So who is going to start paying her legal bills? My guess the cost of those is why she and her boyfriend were trying to cut a back room deal with C5. In other words her legal status will be up in the air for years to come and at the cost of many 10's of thousands of dollars to immigration attorneys and court costs. 

Maxx,

This is the interesting gold digger/suggar daddy dynamic. She's expecting her BF to pay all these legal bills (seems logical to her since he helped destroy her marriage). This guy has a decent amount of money but he's rather cheap, too. She complains that he doesn't give her monthly spending money (like I did while we were married). He expects her to work (I got her a work permit) but she doesn't seem willing to (she sleeps in until 11:00 am every morning, then chats with her RW friends for hours at a time).

She wants him to buy a Mercedes for her to learn to drive on, but he expects her to pay for half of the payments (difficult since she has no job). She thumbs her nose at working at the local entry level jobs (WalMart, fast food, etc) (note that AW the same age have these jobs, and she didn't finish her Russian university yet).

I'm wondering if at some point (even with all that sex with pretty young RW) he's going to get tired of being her sugar daddy (the 10s of thousands in legal bills)????

[Maxx]

Important:

See C5's post 3 up of his CIS interview

 

Thanks C5 for posting this information. The CIS and VSC has a possibility of changing and evolving with these types of cases so the latest information is useful.

Yes I see the CIS seeing so many of these cases moving into a DV charge that they always expect it to happen. That is why I say that a early marriage breakup will likely lead to false charges of DV. A guy has to be extremely careful during these times otherwise he will be left with a criminal record and imprisoned. My one divorce attorney who handles many foreign wives married to American citizens divorce cases told me it was 100% certainty that she would file a I-360 spousal abuse petition against me. In his own words "What have they got to lose? Just file out this form and they can get their green cards... " The VSC is a disgrace.

About needing evidence. Yes but much of that "evidence" can be manufactured. As example sworn affidavits from social workers, school officials, shelter employees, police, friends. My guess there is a whole lot of somebodies who don't mind doing this and know other people who will.

I had my evidence such as I gave a link to attached to her perminent file. But according to the INS DV rules she has the right to see and refute this evidence. As example she could say that I went to attorneys and got this document based on lies and then used to threaten her with deportation. So what then? If they (RW) can refute evidence with clever lies and we cannot counter their statements with our own statements and evidence then how can the truth ever be found out? The mere fact that the VSC does not interview these women or accept evidence from the accused tells me the game is rigged. Again, 

The Vermont Service Center is a disgrace.  

Maxx

[c5driver]

Important:

See C5's post 3 up of his CIS interview


Thanks C5 for posting this information. The CIS and VSC has a possibility of changing and evolving with these types of cases so the latest information is useful.

Yes I see the CIS seeing so many of these cases moving into a DV charge that they always expect it to happen. That is why I say that a early marriage breakup will likely lead to false charges of DV. A guy has to be extremely careful during these times otherwise he will be left with a criminal record and imprisoned. My one divorce attorney who handles many foreign wives married to American citizens divorce cases told me it was 100% certainty that she would file a I-360 spousal abuse petition against me. In his own words "What have they got to lose? Just file out this form and they can get their green cards... " The VSC is a disgrace.

About needing evidence. Yes but much of that "evidence" can be manufactured. As example sworn affidavits from social workers, school officials, shelter employees, police, friends. My guess there is a whole lot of somebodies who don't mind doing this and know other people who will.

I had my evidence such as I gave a link to attached to her perminent file. But according to the INS DV rules she has the right to see and refute this evidence. As example she could say that I went to attorneys and got this document based on lies and then used to threaten her with deportation. So what then? If they (RW) can refute evidence with clever lies and we cannot counter their statements with our own statements and evidence then how can the truth ever be found out? The mere fact that the VSC does not interview these women or accept evidence from the accused tells me the game is rigged. Again, 

The Vermont Service Center is a disgrace.  

Maxx

Maxx,

The Vermont Service Center is a disgrace - Absolutely.  The game is rigged. Maybe they could do a Dateline segment on this VSC scam. Of course, that might be seen as not PC or anti-women, so it would probably never happen. If the American voters knew what goes on at the VSC they'd demand reform.

Of course, if they put it on dateline then with the added publicity half the recently married RW would immediately leave their husbands, go into shelters, and file I-360.

The DV questions from my interview will be in her file - should go to VSC. I expect the same fraud investigator will ask her similar questions at her interview and try to catch her in a lie.

The investigator indicated that the info I gave her would be exempt from the Freedom of Info act, meaning that her atty couldn't get at it.

The timing of this would seem to make the DV thing hard to prove. She moved in with her BF 3 months ago - seems a little late to be moving into a shelter or calling the police now. I wonder if she'd actually make a fake police report to try to prove her case.

As your atty said, what does she have to lose (just her BFs money on attys)?

[c5driver]

To those of you who thought the USCIS might see my motivation as revenge,

They certainly didn't seem to see it that way. I told them that I didn't report my RW until she started blackmailing me. The USCIS fraud investigator I talk to seemed to think reporting immigration fraud was the correct thing to do (and she seemed to agree that my RW trade up behavior constituted immigration fraud). Like reporting a crime

[Maxx]

[user=488]c5driver[/user] wrote:

The investigator indicated that the info I gave her would be exempt from the Freedom of Info act, meaning that her atty couldn't get at it.

 

My understanding is that the Freedom of Information being exempt would be used against your attorney petition for information not hers. It clearly states the I-360 petitioner has the right to see what is in her file. It is my understanding from several sources that you will not be given the same consideration and the FIA Freedom of Information Act cannot be applied by the accused to get information. This is supposedly for the protection of the petitioner. Frankly I understand that excuse as many men would go balistic if they only knew what was said about them in the files. Still no excuse for the shabby way the CIS handles these cases.

How we got here: Remember who was the Attorney General of the Department if Justice (INS is under the control of the DOJ) at the time this was instituted in 1996? Who was running the Executive Branch whom the various departments answer to? And all their appointments to run these departments such as the INS? Because a change in the Administration happens does not mean all department heads are changed. Frankly it is far more likely the liberal element will make changes in personel and procedures in regard to women's issues than a conservative element will. Then there was 1994 VAWA passed before the conservative senators and representives took power in 1995. Then a year later the INS rule changes. So how many men have been falsely set up and had their lives shattered these past 9 years because the INS gives these women only one option if they want to stay?

Maxx   

[c5driver]

My understanding is that the Freedom of Information being exempt would be used against your attorney petition for information not hers. It clearly states the I-360 petitioner has the right to see what is in her file. It is my understanding from several sources that you will not be given the same consideration and the FIA Freedom of Information Act cannot be applied towards the accused. This is supposedly for the protection of the petitioner. Frankly I understand that excuse as many men would go balistic if they only knew what was said about them. Still no excuse for the shabby way the CIS handles these cases. Remember who was the Attorney General of the Department if Justice (INS is under the control of the DOJ) at the time this was instituted in 1996? Who was running the Executive Branch whom the various departments answer to? And all their appointments to run these departments such as the INS? Because a change in the Administration happens does not mean all department heads are changed. Frankly it is far more likely the liberal element will make changes in personel and procedures in regard to women's issues than a conservative element will.   

Maxx   

Hi Maxx,

The USCIS stated that one side of her File is  "law enforcement sensitive" and not covered by the FOI act, whereas the other side is covered by the FOI act. My statements went on the "law enforcement sensitive" side.

She also stated that I won't have any access to her file (except via FOI act, as you or any other citizen would) after I withdrew my support as her I-485 sponsor (which I did today).

Frankly I wouldn't spend the money on a atty to go look through her USCIS file anyway. Whatever happens to her happens to her. We have a mutual friend that will probably keep me informed of whatever's going on with her.

If I was curious I could probably hire a detective to find her based on her SSN, but I don't think I'd even bother with that. Of course, if she still lives with my neighbor, then I'll know she suceeded.

[c5driver]

Frankly it is far more likely the liberal element will make changes in personel and procedures in regard to women's issues than a conservative element will. Then there was 1994 VAWA passed before the conservative senators and representives took power in 1995. Then a year later the INS rule changes. So how many men have been falsely set up and had their lives shattered these past 9 years because the INS gives these women only one option if they want to stay?

Maxx   

Maxx,

Yes, the liberal element did contribute to the VAWA (and the way the VSC runs). But we've had 5 years of Republican administration of USCIS (and the VSC), and things have not changed. Maybe it's too much of a political hot potato for the White house to fix the VSC.