TR: Barnaul/Tver, Russia

[av8or1]

As promised in a previous post in another thread, here is my (albeit somewhat brief) TR regarding my most recent Russian adventure to Barnaul and then Tver.

I left on the 19th of December, Austin to Atlanta and then Atlanta to Moscow SVO II on Delta.  Standard trip I'm accustomed to.  Then Aeroflot to Barnaul.  This flight to Barnaul however departed out of SVO I at 10:35 pm and the Delta flight that I arrived on landed at about 11 am, so I had an almost-12 hour layover in SVO.  The weather was too cold to go into the city to do anything (I've already done all of the Moscow tourist-eee stuff anyway) and since I could see myself missing my flight due to Moscow traffic, I elected to simply wait it out in the airport.  Boy but that was a long day.  I know SVO II like the back of my hand now...

Ok so I get to Barnaul at around 5:50 am their time (+3 hours from Moscow) and I'm using the Russian Pearls agency.  They were late in picking me up, supposedly due to their car having difficulties (it ran fine later that morning and didn't have problems again while I was there, so hmmmmm...).  They did show up after I waited for a short time, so hey.  I stayed at the Hotel Barnaul, which I would recommend.  Their prices were reasonable for what they offered you and they had all of the conveniences available; restaurant, ATM machine, phone charging machine, mini-market (all in the lobby).  I'll see if I can include a photo of the hotel for you with this post.

To cut to the chase here: I cannot recommend the agency Russian Pearls and then some.  There were a couple of times when they left me without any support whatsoever for two or more days at a time and if I had been a newbie at this thing, I would have been in deep sheet river without any waist-high boots to help out.  This is because Barnaul is in Siberia and though some people speak English, most of them don't.  It's not like cities further West, nearer to Moscow where a higher number of people speak English, especially in the hotels.  None of the folk in my hotel for example spoke any English and only one of the women I met spoke the language (and only a few words).  Fortunately I can speak and read Russian fairly well and know how to get around a Russian city to get stuff done that I need done.  A couple of the women I had met had given me their cell phone numbers, so I was able to call and arrange meetings with them on my own when the agency wasn't available.  In addition, this agency wanted me to spend two or three days alone with a woman, to take her to a resort in the mountains after only one or two meetings!  I couldn't believe it.  After the fourth or fifth time they suggested this, I started to wonder if they didn't have some kind of kickback arrangement with the resort that they kept pushing or something.  Dunno, just strange.  I told them that I prefer to keep things at the "friends level" for a while when I meet a woman, to have several meetings like that first and then see if anything develops.  They told me that this was not "the correct way" of finding a woman and then subsequently refused to arrange any meetings with new women! (where "new women" == women I haven't met in person yet)  I started to wonder who had paid who in this scenario.  However as a veteran of this endeavor I know that it's pointless to argue or raise a fuss with these folk because you just come off looking like a rude foreigner and as I am not the type to "raise the roof" anyway, I just decided to bail.  Discretion is the better part of valor anyway right?  The real issue with these folk however revealed itself when I went to leave Barnaul.  I had suspected that they were not being on the up-n-up with me and the women I met, and sure enough I was right.  One of the girls who I decided to keep contact with (it's now down to one) told me that the agency had called her and told her that I was not a "good man", that I didn't know what I wanted, that she should end the relationship with me and that they'd find a "good man" for her later on.  Couldn't believe it!  I was just glad I was leaving because had I seen either of the women from the agency again, I'd probably have given them a large piece of my mind, and I prefer not doing that in general.  Be a gentleman always, right?

So anyway I came back to Moscow with a full week left in my trip.  I decided to return to Tver as I know the city and the agencies there.  Nadya from LTP (Lifetime Partners) arranged a taxi for me from SVO I as well as a flat.  Unlike the pee-poor agency in Barnaul, LTP has office hours seven days a week and never leaves a client without support.  I met several women, though nothing clicked with any of them.  Some weren't available due to the holidays but that wasn't LTP's doing, so no big deal.  They went to extra effort to contact the women, including going to their houses and leaving letters for the women if they weren't home.  Can't recommend LTP highly enough.  They also arranged an ice skating session for me; it was at an outdoor rink in a football stadium.  I'll see if I can include a photo of that as well...

While there I also met a woman through Richard's Tver Angels.  It's also a good agency and I'd recommend them as a backup to LTP.  Or vice-versa.  There were women who were in one agency but who weren't in the other, so don't sell yourself short, try both if you're so inclined.  LTP is bigger and has more women, that's the only reason I'd recommend them as your lead.  Both are honest, which is the key.  They're on opposite ends of the walking street, about a 15 minute walk from each other, so it's convenient.

Then when the time came, I left Russia again and came home.  I've been in contact with the one woman from Barnaul, but not sure where that will go, if anywhere.  A few thoughts:

1) I went to Siberia with the hope that the folk might be a little different than they are in other parts of Russia, namely the "social elite" types in Moscow and St. Petersburg.  This is along the same logic that guys use to justify trips to the FSU republics such as Kazakhstan (which I've been to as well), etc. plus it's the same type of thought pattern that guys sometimes use in the classic argument of going to a village to find a woman versus a large city.  What I found in this Siberia case was and is much like I found when I did those aforementioned things (republics, villages) and that was and is that people in Siberia were pretty much the same as they were everywhere else.  I met women who disappointed me with their personalities and I met others who I thought were genuine.  Same as other cities I've been to really.  I spoke with TurboGuy after getting back and he agreed with this general sentiment.  I'm sure he'll comment further.  'Point is, don't go to Siberia thinking that you'll find anything different than you can find somewhere else simply because it's further off the beaten path.  You'll most likely end up disappointed.  It's just not worth the extra time and money in my opinion.  It's a 4:20 flight to Barnaul and almost 5 hours coming back to Moscow.  Roundtrip airfare was around $800 USD.  It was worth it to ski in the Siberian forest and that was about the only thing that I could use to justify the trip...

2) Going cross country snow skiing in the Siberian forest was crazy cool!  This was actually one of the bigger reasons I chose to make the haul and I'm proud to say that I've been there, done that! ;-)

3) Being able to speak and read the language can serve you well in some cases (my writing still sucks).

4) Some agencies just plain suck while others do a good job.  I haven't had much luck with the Russian-owned, Russian-operated agencies as they don't adhere to the Western philosophy of customer service, at least not the ones I've used.  So I would recommend using an American/Western-owned agency, though I don't want to re-open that age-old argument again.  Save it guys, this is my opinion based on my experience of well over 20 trips to the FSU (I quit counting at 20) in which I have used a number of different agencies.

5) Perhaps the most important, well most important to me anyway, thought/conclusion that I came away from this trip with is that finding a woman through this process is as much a matter of luck as it is anything else.  I've met both good and bad (and everywhere in-between) women both through agencies and out-of agencies, ergo more direct means such as the personal websites or newspaper/Internet ads.  I've talked with guys who have moved to Russia for longer periods of time.  Every single one of those guys had relationships with various women but were "still looking" because they hadn't found the girl for them yet.  One guy even said the very word I stated above when he told me "...yeah I just haven't gotten lucky yet."  Whereas I have seen guys go over and strike gold on their very first trip!  Amazing.  So take it from me if you will, you just gotta hope that you get lucky if you attempt this thing.  Giving yourself the opportunity by being there, meeting the women and putting your best foot forward is all you can do in your attempt to become "lucky".  And by far the best piece of advice I can give is to be prepared to come home empty handed.  Do NOT go over there thinking that you "must find a woman" simply because you have spent the considerable amount of time, money, effort, energy and vacation that is required.  That's a death sentence.  Be prepared to return home with nothing to show for it and be ok with that result.

Enough.  That's my TR.  It ended up being more philisophical by the end, I'll give you that, but that is because I had such a poor experience with the agency in Barnaul and didn't meet anyone I clicked with in Tver.  So not much to report WRT the "juicy" parts of these things...

Y'all take care and have a good 2009!

Best,

Jerry

ps-All of my photos are still on the laptop gang, so I'll have to post them later.  Too much going on today to transfer them to the desktop...

[GoodOlBoy]

Ok so I get to Barnaul at around 5:50 am their time (+3 hours from Moscow) and I'm using the Russian Pearls agency. 

Good TR report AV8tor1.

I am not even going to ask about pictures after the last Brew Ha Ha.  (poor Law)

I  have a question and it is a little 

My wife (Marina) and I like to go out together and shoot my small collection of firearms on the weekend. I buy a lot of ammunition during the year. So consequently, I try to get the most "bang for the buck".

Most of the ammunition we shoot goes under the brand name "Wolf".
Wolf is mainly manufactured in Russia, in several cities. One of those cities is Barnaul.

Did you happen to see any signs of this ammo plant while you were there? I am just curious.
I know you were there for "other"  reasons, but I thought maybe you might have stumbled across this place.

Anyway, thanks again for your TR report.

Have a good one.



GOB

[ambach123]

You have been to FSU over twenty times, so you know a lot more than I do.

I think the shot gun approach of meeting many ladies in one visit seldom works.

I believe if you develop an on line relationship with one woman and then go to visit her exclusively, your chances are greater.

[Gator]

And by far the best piece of advice I can give is to be prepared to come home empty handed. 

One does not want to force something simply because of the invested connection made through long correspondence, especially when a meeting produced unremarkable chemistry.  Yet, at some time it would seem that you would pull the trigger and choose to concentrate on one woman, become exclusive, take some trips together, meet her family and do the other steps in building a relationship.  Have you done this with any RW in your 3-5 years of looking?

No RW is perfect, nor are you.  If you spend enough time with a RW and your relationship progresses well, you may discover that you can feel something that makes you not care about imperfections.


Ignoring my little lecture, it was good to see you give it another try.  Sorry to see that you were unlucky again.  When you work with a bad agency, bad luck is inevitable.  I define a bad agency as one which places milking you as their only goal vs. providing quality service + making a profit.  They will have devious schemes to make more money, caring less about matchmaking.

The RW who told you what the agency told her seems forthright.  Do you have her contact information?  Maybe a meeting somewhere in Russia in the future.

[av8or1]

One does not want to force something simply because of the invested connection made through long correspondence, especially when a meeting produced unremarkable chemistry.  Yet, at some time it would seem that you would pull the trigger and choose to concentrate on one woman, become exclusive, take some trips together, meet her family and do the other steps in building a relationship.  Have you done this with any RW in your 3-5 years of looking?

No RW is perfect, nor are you.  If you spend enough time with a RW and your relationship progresses well, you may discover that you can feel something that makes you not care about imperfections.

Hey Gator,

Thank you for the response and words of encouragement.  In your reply, you're practically speaking my thoughts exactly, so I am at a loss for why you even posted this.  Of course I have "made a choice", spent significant amounts of time with her, met her family, friends and even seen her workplace(s).  Noone is perfect, who said they were?  Again, don't quite understand your point, though perhaps it is that I am demanding/expecting too much in my search or that I am hesitant for whatever reason to "pull the trigger"...is that it?  Neither of those are the case with me.

No, what I was/am getting at WRT this agency is their paradigm of matchmaking: they believe that you should have one, maybe two meetings and then if you like the woman, you should stop seeing all other women and concentrate on her by taking her on an excursion of sorts to this one resort that they recommended and spend 24 hours a day with the woman, sleeping together, everything.  They purport that this is the only way to really know a woman.  In a way that's true but sorry Gator, after one or two meetings???  You gotta be kidding me!  That's just too much too quick for my tastes.  Call me old fashioned, whatever I don't care what anyone else thinks really, but for me I want to take a little more time to get to know a woman before we go on such an excursion together.  'Just seems rushed somehow.

Now mind you, that might work for some people and that's ok, I won't knock that.  All I am saying is that it doesn't work for me, I need a little more time than that.  Not a long time, no, but certainly more than one or two meetings Gator!  However, the real rubbing point here is that they tried to force me to take this approach by refusing to introduce me to new women and by undermining my character behind my back to those women who they didn't think were a good match for me (for whatever reason).  Couldn't believe it!  Manipulative, unprofessional, unethical and that only begins to describe their behavior as an agency.

And with that I digress.  My point to you is that we agree, more so than you may think.  I will remain in contact for now with the one woman from Barnaul (who you referenced) but I can't say that it'll go anywhere.  We had a significant difference WRT children that I am not certain can be resolved.  I try to be open however, and will do just that for her; for now anyway.

Thanks,

Jerry

[av8or1]

You have been to FSU over twenty times, so you know a lot more than I do.

I think the shot gun approach of meeting many ladies in one visit seldom works.

I believe if you develop an on line relationship with one woman and then go to visit her exclusively, your chances are greater.

Hey Ambach,

Glad to see you're still around RWD, hope all is well with ya!

Well I'll have to disagree with your belief.  Although it can happen that a long term communication prior to an in-person meeting will result in a budding relationship that might lead to something more, I can tell you from personal experience that more often it results in too high expectations that are impossible to be realized by one or both of you and as a result the in-person meeting goes South pretty quickly.  If I had to put a percentage on it, I'd say the odds are 50-50, like most other forms of Internet meetings.

Finally, your comments seem to assume that I didn't have any communication with these women prior to my trip ("shot gun approach").  That wasn't the case.  I had communication with most, but true, not all.  It's ironic that the one woman with whom I still have communication was one of the women I hadn't written to prior to my arrival.  That was probably luck more than anything else though; I can't see the rationale behind using that result to justify an opinion or belief.  Admittedly, it wasn't long communication, no.  The longest that I had with any of these women was about 2 or 2.5 months...

Which kinda brings me back to a point: it just seems that luck plays such a big role in this thing.  So keep your fingers crossed guys! ;-)

Best,

Jerry

[av8or1]

My wife (Marina) and I like to go out together and shoot my small collection of firearms on the weekend. I buy a lot of ammunition during the year. So consequently, I try to get the most "bang for the buck".

Most of the ammunition we shoot goes under the brand name "Wolf".
Wolf is mainly manufactured in Russia, in several cities. One of those cities is Barnaul.

Did you happen to see any signs of this ammo plant while you were there? I am just curious.

GOB

Hey GOB,

Nope, sorry, didn't see anything resembling an ammo plant nor any signs that said "Wolf" on them.  Sorry I couldn't have been of more help.

Best,

Jerry

[GoodOlBoy]

....They told me that this was not "the correct way" of finding a woman and then subsequently refused to arrange any meetings with new women! ....

Hello AV8or1.

When I first read your post this morning, I was kind of outraged like you were.

But now that I have read it again. Can I just throw out something for discussion without "offending" you?

Is there ANY possibility that you "misinterpreted" the Barnaul agencies intentions concerning this matter?

Now mind you I have no horse in this race and I know NONE of the players you have mentioned in your story. So here goes:

What if there has been so many "Sex Tourists" (you know, the three F's...Feedum'...F*ckum' and Forgetum') roaming through Barnaul that the women are being "protected" by the agencies? (God forgive me, I just came back from Church )

In other words the agency (WRONGLY) sniffed you out as a Sex Tourist and refused to help you add more women to your score card.

The sad fact is we have a couple of posters on this forum who "brag" about going into "Siberian" type cities and bedding as many women as they can on their TR? 

After reflection, is this a possible explanation for the agencies behavior?

On the other hand, maybe they were just trying to "jack you up" for some money.  :evil:



GOB

[vwrw]

Av8or1, it is sad  that you had negative experience with the Barnaul’s agency.  The fact that they refused to arrange meetings with new women is shocking.
It is a privilege of women to accept or decline a man’s interest.  No agency is given the right to decide whether its women should meet a man or not. 

[ambach123]

Jerry, I don't have any hard data, but probably your assumption that there is a 50% chance of getting connected after you make an exclusive trip for one girl is correct. And if that is true, you would need two trips to have something. Of course there may be more trips later as the relationship grows.

As I have read on this Board, many people have followed that approach.

In my limited experience, the RW abhor fishing trips; they want to become exclusive ASAP. The point is that they would find out whether you are seeing other women, and then they would lose interest in you.

Also in my limited exprience, RW like physical closeness, not necessarily just sex; you can't build a relationship with them without it. They really demand a lot of attention, much more than AW.

I beg to differ about the luck part; there is an old saying, " the harder I worked, the luckier I got ".

[BC]

I cringe when I hear 'well over 20 trips'..

I personally would have given up long before then..  well to tell the truth I would not have started in the first place..

Then again, TG IIRC was up into those numbers and finally found his mate.

Sure Casper is not pulling on your family jewels?

Maybe your criteria needs review?

[vwrw]

What if there has been so many "Sex Tourists" (you know, the three F's...Feedum'...F*ckum' and Forgetum') roaming through Barnaul that the women are being "protected" by the agencies? (God forgive me, I just came back from church  )

Each woman in any agency has her own brain, and majority of the women are capable to protect themselves and think for themselves. They come to agency not for protection or seeking someone who would decide which man is good for them and which is bad. They come to agency with hope that its employees will communicate men’s words to them (women) and translate their letter.  

[Daveman]

Nice report Jerry..

sorry nothing panned out as of yet but perhaps you'll get a pleasant surprise from the one you remained in contact with.  Thanks for the tips about agencies as well.  Strange actions from the agency in Barnaul.  Seems they really did want to get you to that resort in a hurry.  I guess they realize that after a good porkin' most of these westerners forget any common sense and run to file the K-1. Glad you're not in that category.  Thanks again...

We can debate VM vs VO all day long but the facts reported by those who practice one approach over another easily show that there are potential pluses and minuses for each approach.  Whichever approach a man is most comfortable with is the method he should use because that approach will  indeed be best for him.

Statistically a 50% odds endeavor repeated twice does not give 100% odds. It's not cumulative.  Flip a coin and the odds for heads or tails is 50%... flip a coin one thousand times, and the odds for each toss are the same 50%.  

Dave

[groovlstk]

Thanks for another great TR, Jerry.

You don't seem like the proverbial kid in a candy store, and if you have high standards for what you seek in a wife, it's nothing to be ashamed of. I count my blessings today that I didn't settle for a woman who seemed right and instead waited for one who left absolutely no doubt in my mind. Good luck and I hope your next trip will be more fruitful.

[av8or1]

We can debate VM vs VO all day long but the facts reported by those who practice one approach over another easily show that there are potential pluses and minuses for each approach.  Whichever approach a man is most comfortable with is the method he should use because that approach will  indeed be best for him.

Well said Daveman and exactly my point: the approach they wanted me to use was not the approach I felt comfortable with.  In my mind no approach is "correct" (a term they used).  Each person, both the man and the woman, should do what they feel comfortable with and then let the ball bounce and land where it will.  This agency refused to do that.  I had to do things their way.  When I refused, they began speaking badly about me in my absence and then I ended my trip to Barnaul early.

Statistically a 50% odds endeavor repeated twice does not give 100% odds. It's not cumulative.  Flip a coin and the odds for heads or tails is 50%... flip a coin one thousand times, and the odds for each toss are the same 50%.

Also well said Dave!  I deal with stats daily and concur with your assessment.

Good luck to everyone, regardless of your approach!

Thanks!

Jerry

[av8or1]

Hello AV8or1.

When I first read your post this morning, I was kind of outraged like you were.

But now that I have read it again. Can I just throw out something for discussion without "offending" you?

Sure.

Is there ANY possibility that you "misinterpreted" the Barnaul agencies intentions concerning this matter?

Now mind you I have no horse in this race and I know NONE of the players you have mentioned in your story. So here goes:

What if there has been so many "Sex Tourists" (you know, the three F's...Feedum'...F*ckum' and Forgetum') roaming through Barnaul that the women are being "protected" by the agencies? (God forgive me, I just came back from Church )

In other words the agency (WRONGLY) sniffed you out as a Sex Tourist and refused to help you add more women to your score card.

The sad fact is we have a couple of posters on this forum who "brag" about going into "Siberian" type cities and bedding as many women as they can on their TR? 

After reflection, is this a possible explanation for the agencies behavior?

Well I can understand your point, sure, but the answer to your question is "no", actually.  Recall part of my earlier post where I clearly stated to them that I wanted to remain at the "friends level" for a while prior to spending time alone with a woman (where such sexual activity could take place) so clearly I wasn't trying to have a sex tour nor was I even behaving in a manner that could be considered consistent with a man who had such intentions.

I also agree with a post subsequent to yours in which it was stated that the women are able to decide these things for themselves; they don't need an agency to "defend" them.  I concur with that notion completely.  In my experience any man, Russian or otherwise, stands absolutely zero chance with a RW if she doesn't want you to have that chance.  RW, in my experience anyway, are strong in a good way and typically know how to handle themselves.  Usually with grace and elegance (though not always), which are qualities that I have come to admire in a RW.  But now I am straying...the point is that the agency was forcing (or attempting to force) me to do what they wanted me to do.  When I resisted and (respectfully) requested to go about things in my own manner, they refused to let me continue and then began speaking negatively about me in my absence.  They also managed to disappear for days at a time, not returning my calls or SMSs.  They don't hold regular office hours to boot.

But enough.  I've had my say and I hope everyone gets the point to avoid them.  That's all.  I don't list them in the scam subforum only because they exist, have an office and a legitmate business.  The problem is how they conduct that business and how they treat their clients.  While it's not a "scam", it's certainly something to be avoided.

Thanks so much,

Jerry

[av8or1]

In my limited experience, the RW abhor fishing trips; they want to become exclusive ASAP. The point is that they would find out whether you are seeing other women, and then they would lose interest in you.

Yes that is often the case.  When I've encountered that I've usually not minded that the woman bailed on me because ... well several reasons, most of which should be obvious.  'Point is that I don't lie and if a woman has asked me if I am meeting with other women and I am indeed doing that, I always say "yes", despite the advice of many agencies (including this one in Barnaul) to lie and say "no".  If she gets turned off and bolts, so be it.  I won't lie; I just can't do it because I detest it so much when it's done to me, along with the morality aspect of the issue, but I digress.

Also in my limited exprience, RW like physical closeness, not necessarily just sex; you can't build a relationship with them without it. They really demand a lot of attention, much more than AW.

Yeah there is some truth to that too Ambach, though it varies in intensity from woman to woman.  To be honest, I haven't worried about that aspect of this endeavor too much.  I've just always done what I felt comfortable with and what I felt was right.  What happens from there ... well, it happens.  Perhaps that's part of my problem! ;-)  HAHAHA!

I beg to differ about the luck part; there is an old saying, " the harder I worked, the luckier I got ".

Well on the whole I agree with you.  Nothing like good old fashioned work helping you to become "lucky".  However as BC so overtly noticed, I have been at this thing for a while now, always there "on soil", always trying, always doing my best and yet I've come up short.  Sure, I could have married a few women by now if I had wanted to just be married.  But for me there needs to be something more and that just hasn't happened yet.  It is from this perspective that I advocate that working hard also needs a bit of "luck" to help out.  Understand?

Good to see you're still around.

Best,

Jerry

[av8or1]

Thanks for another great TR, Jerry.

You don't seem like the proverbial kid in a candy store, and if you have high standards for what you seek in a wife, it's nothing to be ashamed of. I count my blessings today that I didn't settle for a woman who seemed right and instead waited for one who left absolutely no doubt in my mind. Good luck and I hope your next trip will be more fruitful.

Hey Groov!

Good to see you still around also!  Glad that things are still working out well for you!  I wish you the best in 2009!

Your comments are exactly on-point.  'Couldn'ta said it better.  And no, hell no, I don't fall prey to the kid-in-a-candy-store syndrome.  I didn't even do that on my first trip in 2004, let alone now after >>20 trips.  Thank you for the well-wishes, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.  Thinking of trying Ukraine again after a 2.5 year absence...

Best,

Jerry

[GoodOlBoy]

.....so clearly I wasn't trying to have a sex tour nor was I even behaving in a manner that could be considered consistent with a man who had such intentions....

Hello again AV8or1.

Thanks for your patience.

No offense was meant by my question, I was just probing for any "other" possible reasons for the agencies behavior (other than the obvious, MONEY).  

One other thing though, did you tell the agency that you have been to Russia more than 20 times?

I have to tell you, I have NEVER met anybody with that many trips to Russia under his belt and no prospects.  


GOB

[GoodOlBoy]

.... 'Point is that I don't lie and if a woman has asked me if I am meeting with other women and I am indeed doing that, I always say "yes"...

Some questions are better left "unasked".   :selfharm:


GOB

[BC]

Some questions are better left "unasked".   :selfharm:


GOB

unanswered.....

[ambach123]

The women will invariably ask this question, there is no way to avoid this question. And if you answer yes, that would be the last time you would be seeing that woman. You have zero percent chance of success with her.

On the other hand if she knows that you took the trip from USA, solely to see her, and she likes you, she would do anything for you.

[SMS60]

Aviator1

I liked reading your trip report. I take my hat off to you for making your trips.Its more than some people do.

But I have to say reading your posts made me cringe. If your avitar is you? Your a handsome young man who should not have a problem in the physical attraction department. Most men dont have this going for them. So count yourself lucky.

My point being you are not ready to go to the local club and try and find a date much less 5000 miles away. You do not have the right mind set yet. I think you need to work on your inner self. Your frame of mind needs work.

Dont take this as a bash I'm trying to help. Its about like telling someone they have bad breath. It needs to be done but hard to say.

[Vaughn]

You do not have the right mind set yet. I think you need to work on your inner self. Your frame of mind needs work.

Dont take this as a bash I'm trying to help. Its about like telling someone they have bad breath. It needs to be done but hard to say.

SMS60, a big and resounding HUH? is in order. I've enjoyed this TR as much as anyone, and see Jerry as taking
a common sense approach, that is, being selective, using truth and courtesy as his guidelines, and not treating
each journey as a do-or-die investment of time, effort and money. I believe the "frame of mind" problem lies with
Russian Pearls agency myself, with their obvious effort to reap resort trip commissions overshadowing any sense
of business ethics and responsibility to its ladies, not to mention Jerry, their client.

Jerry, kudos to you for making the effort to know some Russian. Can you imagine the potential cluelessness of
a WM, lost in Siberia, at the mercy of...   I know you know where I'm going with this statement. Good TR, dude.   

[Chicagoguy]

Jerry,

In this game sometimes we must kiss many frogs. And I have done this myself. Well, not really frogs but just no magic.

I was thinking that with your experience that maybe you could leave the agencies behind. I have met some very nice women on freepersonals.ru, lucky lovers and finally had success on holostyak.com. I have never used an agency.

Found out today that my I-129 was approved. The end is in sight.

I have been to Omsk in Siberia 4 times [ not to date women ] and agree that the women are not noticebly different than Moscow but still very acceptable.