Is it Real ?

[jdk1963]

I am also a wealthy man, and have built a fortune; wealthy people are different any way, otherwise they would not become wealthy. I have strong opionions and I follow them through, that is how I made my fortune. Almost always I thought differently than everyone else. I often have disdain for people with big mouths, but two nickels to their names. I know Mohammed preached tolerance for mankind, hopefully I would learn that someday. I would be a fool to marry without a prenup.

I was content to merely read along and I agree with the general consensus regarding your behavior so far.  If no one else has said I will.  You are one of the creepiest most arrogant vapid individuals I've encountered.  It is easy to see where your values lie.  You're a disgusting fool regardless.   

[BC]

I was content to merely read along and I agree with the general consensus regarding your behavior so far.  If no one else has said I will.  You are one of the creepiest most arrogant vapid individuals I've encountered.  It is easy to see where your values lie.  You're a disgusting fool regardless.   

Talk about kicking a dead horse...  jdk, up to the bold part you did quite fine.

[Simoni]

Guess he has not heard the one about glass houses...

[Kuna]

I was content to merely read along and I agree with the general consensus regarding your behavior so far.  If no one else has said I will.  You are one of the creepiest most arrogant vapid individuals I've encountered.  It is easy to see where your values lie.  You're a disgusting fool regardless.   

jdk,

Although your post is harsh - I feel compelled to agree with you.

God help any woman who's silly enough to end up with ambach.  Let's hope she's not silly - just ruthless and calculating.   


Let me clarify some things about Mr ambach...  he is full of himself!

Quote from: ambach123 on 15 February 2009, 07:40:01
I am also a wealthy man, and have built a fortune; wealthy people are different any way, otherwise they would not become wealthy.

Really wealthy people don't talk like this... pretenders do. 

Quote from: ambach123 on 15 February 2009, 07:40:01
I have strong opionions and I follow them through,

A lie if I've ever seen one!

You might have strong opinions but YOU DO NOT follow through.  We've seen you mouthing off for a long time now and you rarely follow through. 

Example is your first FSU relationship and the certainty you claimed over it's validity.. then you dumped her (didn't "follow through") because she was "too religious".. then you talk about you're next wild thing and you praying in a mosque together.  For a man with such "strong opinions" and who claims to follow through -  you certainly have problems making up your mind!

Maybe you lack integrity in everything you do and that may be how you etch out your living?

Quote from: ambach123 on 15 February 2009, 07:40:01
I often have disdain for people with big mouths, but two nickels to their names.

You could have stopped at the comma - many of the members here at RWD are building a disdain of you.

You've got the biggest mouth in here lately yet nothing to be boastful of.  You're the worst type of loudmouth ambach - a pretender!

Quote from: ambach123 on 15 February 2009, 07:40:01
I know Mohammed preached tolerance for mankind, hopefully I would learn that someday.

If you dump women because they are "too religious for you" we really shouldn't talk religion.  The more truth that comes out in your posts the more I realise religion was probably not your first victims problem.  Maybe she was just "too Christian" for you - but you didn't have the guts to say it in the beginning?

Quote from: ambach123 on 15 February 2009, 07:40:01
I would be a fool to marry without a prenup.

ambach, you are such a loudmouthed fool that you don't realise most men don't begrudge you your prenup.  Many are critical of your motives behind your plans - and your obvious disrespect for women. 

I suspect you will fail spectacularly sooner or later.  A good FSUW will not tolerate you or your attitudes - a bad one will take you for all you've got!

We're waiting to applaud either way!   

[Gator]

The idiom "beating a dead horse" entered my mind; however:

1.  I doubt that Ambach is dead.

2.  Considering the prolonged, global economic downturn, many of us could use a punching bag (maybe RWD should charge a fee).

Ambach, you should not ignore the criticism and instead evaluate it introspectively to improve your relationships with others.

[Simoni]

2.  Considering the prolonged, global economic downturn, many of us could use a punching bag (maybe RWD should charge a fee).

You may have hit upon something, Gator.  The emergence here lately of the bullies, the racist and the gay-bashers may indeed be related to their frustrations with the economic downturn.

[BC]

You may have hit upon something, Gator.  The emergence here lately of the bullies, the racist and the gay-bashers may indeed be related to their frustrations with the economic downturn.

A bit OT, but I submit we are hearing the effects of a small number of, but very loud member(s) causing echo's to bounce off these walls.

[Wienerin]

You may have hit upon something, Gator.  The emergence here lately of the bullies, the racist and the gay-bashers may indeed be related to their frustrations with the economic downturn.

I may be somewhat inattentive ort do not read|write that much, but I haven't seen any burst of rasist or homophobic feeling here. What I have seen is a tendency of literally a couple of members writing fairy tales about Russia and turning around at anyone who attempted to burst their bubbles and inovoking these terms.

I've tried to explain exactly why there's no acceptance of "gay culture", "gay lifestyle" in Russia or Ukraine in general. This has nothing to do with men kissing in public - this is as accepted as, say, in Italy or France - friends would kiss and or embrace on meeting (Russian custom is/was 3 times hearty buss ) ... Those who remember the Soviet era newsreels would without doubt remember also the GenSek grabbing some unfortunate Western dignitary to kiss

But displays of "real gayness" (I reserve my opinion as to why should anyone be allowed to display bedroom behavior let alone more bizarre stuff and demand "respect" for it when a "square" would be booked on charges of public lewdness, etc.) in public are not accepted and the consequences may be pretty bad.

BTW - lists of addresses of gay bars, clubs, etc. have nothing to do with the realties of everyday life in Russia or anywhere else. You can get - if you're so inclined (and a bit touched in the head ) all sorts of addresses and lists and web sites for almost any kind of "adult entertainment" almost anywhere in the US, which doesn't mean that seeking these services and using them is either legal or accepted by the general public (or law enforcement).

Can you get a prostitute - female, male, underage - in any of the bigger Russian/Ukrainian/American cities? Sure. Is it safe? Heck, no! Case closed.

[GoodOlBoy]

You may have hit upon something, Gator.  The emergence here lately of the bullies, the racist and the gay-bashers may indeed be related to their frustrations with the economic downturn.

I wanted to post a comment about Ambach123's latest string of BS, but alas, I have been placed on a "verbal probation" by Dan "The Admin Man".

I guess the "Anointed One's" have finally won the battle for RWD supremacy.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted fellas! 

I will take my "Mirror of Shame" and depart the forum. 


GOB

[Admin]

I wanted to post a comment about Ambach123's latest string of BS, but alas, I have been placed on a "verbal probation" by Dan "The Admin Man".

I guess the "Anointed One's" have finally won the battle for RWD supremacy.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted fellas! 

I will take my "Mirror of Shame" and depart the forum. 


GOB

Well, if by "verbal probation" you mean a reminder to be civil - to NOT engage in personal attacks - and to NOT engage in insulting innuendo or biting sarcasm - then, YES, I guess my PM might be seen as "verbal probation" - though I intended it to be gentle guidance directed towards productive outcomes.

FWIW

- Dan

[Simoni]

I may be somewhat inattentive ort do not read|write that much, but I haven't seen any burst of rasist or homophobic feeling here.

I have seen far too many insensitive attacks here the last few weeks.

And it does indeed disturb me to see RWD affiliated with such comments via some of its members. The racist statements are well documented, so let's just consider the gay-bashing.

Time after time, we read here about gay men kissing and touching in public. An alien landing from space reading this would assume this is normal behavior for gay men.

Such posts degrade ALL gays with such extreme examples.  Such statements show a lack of knowledge and experience; the vast vast majority of gay men do not act in that way.   Ironically, they are much more in control of their actions than are the very posters who are attacking them here!

For educated western men, it's inappropriate to post such statements as we are seeing here.  It reflect badly for all of us.

[Misha]

Such posts degrade ALL gays with such extreme examples.  Such statements show a lack of knowledge and experience; the vast vast majority of gay men do not act in that way.   Ironically, they are much more in control of their actions than are the very posters who are attacking them here!

For educated western men, it's inappropriate to post such statements as we are seeing here.  It reflect badly for all of us.

Well said Simoni.

[Faux Pas]

I have seen far too many insensitive attacks here the last few weeks.

And it does indeed disturb me to see RWD affiliated with such comments via some of its members. The racist statements are well documented, so let's just consider the gay-bashing.

Time after time, we read here about gay men kissing and touching in public. An alien landing from space reading this would assume this is normal behavior for gay men.

Such posts degrade ALL gays with such extreme examples.  Such statements show a lack of knowledge and experience; the vast vast majority of gay men do not act in that way.   Ironically, they are much more in control of their actions than are the very posters who are attacking them here!

For educated western men, it's inappropriate to post such statements as we are seeing here.  It reflect badly for all of us.

Would you mind to elaborate further? I haven't seen the "gay bashing". I have seen some racist remarks from time to time and I have seen attacks come from many directions depending on the thread. Many times advice given whether solicited or not is perceived as attack. It might prove helpful if you were more specific.

[Simoni]

I suggest you simply read my post again.  If you disagree, fine.

But the bottom line is that when posters make fun of a class of people--such as gay men--with extreme examples that tend to tie the entire class of people to the example, then that is "bashing."

[BC]

I suggest you simply read my post again.  If you disagree, fine.

But the bottom line is that when posters make fun of a class of people--such as gay men--with extreme examples that tend to tie the entire class of people to the example, then that is "bashing."

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9118.msg171001#msg171001

I personally found this one quite out of line.  There are others.

It's not about harboring different opinions or preferences.. It's about being able to carry on constructive discourse and most importantly RELATING DIRECT EXPERIENCE about the topic!!!

[SMS60]

I suggest you simply read my post again.  If you disagree, fine.

But the bottom line is that when posters make fun of a class of people--such as gay men--with extreme examples that tend to tie the entire class of people to the example, then that is "bashing."

[Faux Pas]

I've read and re-read your post again. I disagree.

If someone were to witness homosexuals kissing and fondling and were repulsed at the sight, this is gay bashing? You are not being very definitive and seem to be condemning an entire forum. Yourself excluded of course.

BC, I too found that to be completely out of line but more of a direct hit on a specific poster and not bashing  homosexuals

[ECOCKS]

Well said Simoni.

Color me confused then.

I surely think it is as normal for a homosexual couple to do those things as it is for a heterosexual couple.

While I am not particularly supportive of the gay lifestyle, neither am I terribly disturbed when I see gays holding hands or even kissing in public places or at parties.  If I can kiss my wife as I help her with her coat, why can't they do the same for their partner? There were a couple of middle-aged guys holding hands across the table in Sunduk one evening last month and no lynch mob seemed to be forming up or warming some tar for feathering. There are some gay clubs in Kyiv for those into that sort of thing but I would be perplexed as to why someone would fly to Ukraine to search for their gay lover - unless it was some butch gal looking for her own devushka doll.      

So, what is the problem with him saying that?

[Simoni]

So, what is the problem with him saying that?

Because he said it to ridicule gay men and to make fun of them. 

[Simoni]

You are not being very definitive and seem to be condemning an entire forum. Yourself excluded of course.

You are making a faux pas.  In most jobs in this country, if you made such posts attacking homosexuals or racial minorities on company time or associated your company with such attitudes, you would be reprimand or fired.  Such verbiage is not normal nor in good taste.

[Misha]

I surely think it is as normal for a homosexual couple to do those things as it is for a heterosexual couple.

Agree with you here. As noted, I don't like too much public display from ANY couple gay or straight. Hand holding or a quick (and discrete) kiss is acceptable IMHO no matter who is involved.

While I am not particularly supportive of the gay lifestyle

The question is how "gay lifestyle" is defined. The fact of the matter is that we can quibble over numbers and percentages, but this does not deny that some men are innately attracted to men, and some women will be innately attracted to only women. They didn't choose this any more than I chose to be attracted to women. It is not a lifestyle. How they live their lives may be a lifestyle, but as Simoni stated quite well the stereotypes would only apply to a very small percentage of gay men and lesbians. Most people have certainly encountered gay men and lesbians in their business and personal lives and had no idea that they were, because they looked and had ordinary, mundane lives like everybody else.

[kievstar]

I get kissed all the time by Ukraine guys I am close friends with.  But I have never seen two dudes walking hand and hand kissing in Kiev.  But who knows in 5 years it may be normal.  When I fish with the American guys we joke sometimes about being gay in that it would be a lot easier with less drama.  I will not go into details but picture 5 guys in a 21 foot boat jigging for walleyes in march on the Detroit River talking about this with another 200 boats all within 100 yards hearing every word.  

I did see two balloon vendors in Kiev get in a good fight this past weekend.  Maybe a lovers quarrel.  They both did have heart shaped ballons.  But I think the balloons were due to Valetines day.

I think people need to relax a bit and realize that what is written has different meanings to everyone.  That is why emails and letters are a poor form of communication.

I will say my fiance and her friend who is marrying an American as well were shocked seeing the video "I kissed a girl" that is popular right now.  I told them 10-20% of America is bi sexual and they should get used to it.  They had a very strange look on their face.  

Gay is not natural right now for the majority in Ukraine.  Right or wrong that is a fact.  Going to gay bars is not going to earn you brownie points with the ladies.  But getting naked with a bunch of Russian men in a sauna and hitting each other with sticks is ok.  

[BC]

BC, I too found that to be completely out of line but more of a direct hit on a specific poster and not bashing  homosexuals

I don't recall the OP of that thread mentioning anything remotely associated with homosexuals.  The barn he was shooting at was big enough as it is without bringing in something new.

It was a 'carry over' comment from two other threads covering the subject.

[SANDRO43]

I get kissed all the time by Ukraine guys I am close friends with.  But I have never seen two dudes walking hand and hand

It's culture-related, for instance it's rather common in Arab countries to see friends walking holding hands, and you know that homosexuality is NOT eyed particularly favourably in the Muslim world .

Furthermore, people in warmer climates seem more at ease with closer physical contact even among males (see also http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6495.msg118161#msg118161).

[ECOCKS]

Agree with you here. As noted, I don't like too much public display from ANY couple gay or straight. Hand holding or a quick (and discrete) kiss is acceptable IMHO no matter who is involved.

The question is how "gay lifestyle" is defined. The fact of the matter is that we can quibble over numbers and percentages, but this does not deny that some men are innately attracted to men, and some women will be innately attracted to only women. They didn't choose this any more than I chose to be attracted to women. It is not a lifestyle. How they live their lives may be a lifestyle, but as Simoni stated quite well the stereotypes would only apply to a very small percentage of gay men and lesbians. Most people have certainly encountered gay men and lesbians in their business and personal lives and had no idea that they were, because they looked and had ordinary, mundane lives like everybody else.

Guess it was the alien remark that threw me off the trail.  I would regard it as normal for an alien to think that was okay whether the couple was hetero or homo.

So we differ in opinion, I see it as a choice which was influenced by genetics, chemistry and environment yet is an individual decision.  When I say "not particularly supportive of" I mean that while I do not regard it as "normal", I have no compulsion to burn down gay bars, spray paint anti-gay graffitti on walls or hunt them down in the local park at night with 40 friends and a baseball bat. As I mentioned I noted a gay male couple in a Kyiv cafe last month and certainly understand that an attractive woman can be attractive to a lesbian as well.  Guess if I was a gay girl with the wherewithal I would look for my significant other in Ukraine.  Why not?  However, for me personally, in much the same way that I don't practice Islam or Hinduism, neither do I care if they choose something different.  Free country, just respect my space as well.

I have a few gay friends from high school and a couple of acquaintenances that I came into contact with through business/social situations.  I make them aware how I feel and, so far there has been nothing "ugly" resulting from that, we all still live on the same planet.