Another statistic

[Admin]

Gator,
   The world I live in is not so fragile.  I don't feel the need to defend myself from any accusation, so I won't even bother to.  If someone places their dirty laundry next to me, at least grant me the right to exclaim, "peeeeeewwww". 

Our dear Russian cousins have a wonderful saying which in English would roughly be, "your word in God's ear".  Well, it would seem the gods do in their omnipotence read RWD, and gravely rendered their verdict.   No human words could ever match their deed.  Scott's nemesis is not me, nor is it his wife.  It is something within Scott.  Hubris is often attributed as a character flaw of the heroes in Greek tragedy, and the cause of the "nemesis", or destruction, which befalls these characters.  Do not mistake my poor attempts at showing this aspect of this story as casting stones.  Instead I ask the rest of you, why are you advising Scott to try and clutch the sand as it is being pulled into the sea?  Scott has the chance and I'm sure the ability to start over, but to do so he must face an inconvenient truth

>>If someone places their dirty laundry next to me<<

Nobody placed anything next to you Mark. You made the choice to visit here and perpetuate your long-standing attacks on Scott. You have now sunk to a level I did not think you capable of - but I was wrong. The mean-spirited nature of your attacks under the guise of some oblique thought provocation is both transparent and pathetic.

Please don't call me "baby", when done by someone with a very obvious Napoleon complex, it's kinda creepy, you may now have the last word to elevate your low self-esteem, now really I must go...

I agree, you really SHOULD go. Your only purpose here for some time now has been to ridicule, and most of it has been directed toward Scott.

- Dan

[Admin]

I am sorry Scott but I have no sympathy for you.

[Removed for brevity]

For the record, not all here show this type of venom, some are actually very nice, I am glad some are weeded out of here by their own wives.

Mark,

Yours is a boorish and callous post.

Why do you open with an apology and than move on to lambasting someone who is obviously suffering?

It is difficult for me to comprehend the lack of 'heart' that would enable such insensitivity.

You then go on to say you are "glad" at another's struggles.

Gotta say that those qualities make me doubt you will see anything more than short tem success with a RW - or any W for that matter.

Disgusting and shameful Mark.

[groovlstk]

Many years ago, when I was beginning my search and wondering if this was all real, I happened upon my first discussion forum for guys involved in this pursuit. I can't remember which one it was (it wasn't RWD), but a similar situation arose wherein a regular contributor suddenly separated from his Russian wife. Another member with a history of locking horns w/the OP gleefully spit in his face and went on and on how happy he was that this man's life was on the verge of ruin.

I remember thinking to myself: this guy is a fully grown man; do I want to be identified with half-developed nimrods like him? Are there many other losers like him travelling to Russia and Ukraine? I bailed on the discussion forum and decided to feel my own way through the dark forest, at least until I discovered RWD about a year later.

One of the sad truths about all this is that there are a lot of stunted, immature, and socially retarded men seeking foreign women simply because women from their own countries stopped talking to them long ago.

[Gator]

How you can suggest this guy is Mensa material is beyond me.  

Did not say that nor intend to imply it.   Besides, it is not relevant.   My point is that some really bright people choose not to go mainstream, and there is no reason for Krimster to taunt and disparage Scott because of his life choices. 


If Scott is to be criticized, it is for not choosing a spouse whose lifestyle goals were aligned with his.  And gentlemen, that mismatch happens a lot.  We can easily become preoccupied with the day to day interaction of a cross-cultural relationship with a beautiful woman and never comprehend the extent of future conflicts.  It is too easy to dismiss it with the excuse that women change.   Attention - many FSU women will probably change a lot upon adjusting to the West.

Scott’s public retrospection is an opportunity for us to discuss RW mentality, identifying behavior that may signal future conflicts and how that spills over into commitment, family goals and the like.  That seems to be your intention as well.

P. S.  IMO joining and participating in Mensa seems odd, much more odd than RWD.

[ECOCKS]

Dignifying this guy's remarks by responding just eggs him on though.  Attention, disruption and anger is feeding him now so we become guilty of perpetuating his tempest in a teacup.

As for MENSA, it has some purpose and meaning to both its members and society.  However, I never had any respect for anyone who flaunts any sort of membership, award, privilege, skill or honor out of context. Even people who brag about their golf handicap bore the heck outta' me.

Back to Scott, leave this guy on the side of the road.

[GoodOlBoy]

Scott,

I  first want to express again my sympathies for your situation, I wish only the best for you.

Second, I want to commend you as one man to another for coming on RWD and "bearing" your soul to the members.

"You're a braver man than I am, Gunga Din" .

Seriously, I respect the fact that you did not come on here to whine and put the bad mouth on your wife and stepdaughter (like some other members we know).

NO, you have conducted yourself like a real man.

Lastly, I have no advice to offer you, so I will leave this post at that.


GOB

[Wayne]

Scott, I am very sorry to hear about your situation!  Your wife and mine seem to have things in common.  The same mind set. 

What my attorney did was get a court order giving me exclusive use of my house. You might want to do that. 

If you get an attorney to prepare the divorce case, he or she will need to serve your wife with the papers. 

Wish you good luck!

Wayne

[ScottinCrimea]

Update:

I'm still around and doing fine.  I've been busy with all of the details of getting things in order.  I'm not sure how much detail I want to go into, but at this point I'm sure many are curious and there are some issues that may be relevant to others here and for which some outside insight might be beneficial.

I've had a couple of conversations with my wife.  She offered to return me one of our cars because she says she felt "sorry for me".  In exchange she wantede the computer and various household items.  At first I balked at giving up the computer because I have various documents and photos on them, but this seems to be some sort of a symbolic thing for her so I agreed to download my data onto an extenal drive and make the swap.  Later that day when I returned from work I found that she had entered our apartment and taken everything she wanted with the exception of the computer, which I had wisely taken with me.  Later she claimed that she did this to avoid any interaction while she retrieved her things.

She seemed quite rational and calm during this conversation and asked why I had been so quick to mention divorce.  My reply was, 'Well, Dear, when you come in with the police, remove all of your things and say that you are never coming back, and them steal my car, it seems like divorce is the logical conclusion."  This and other comments lead me to suspect that she sees this whole thing as a power play rather than a final resolution.

Any hope for even considering that she was going to change went out the window when she came with her daughter to make the swap.  She was oinsulting and behaved like a total B...  I have to wonder how much of that was for the benefit of her daughter.  There were no incidents and she did get the computer back, though she called later when she discovered that everything was password protected.  I explained that as soon as she put the rent money I had paid to her into my account that she keeps promising to return I would giver her the passwords.

She asked to return the car and keep the van because she said she would need this to move their things.  Not sure where she plans to move them, but it was no problem for me.  She really can't afford to get her own place right now. She refused to return all the keys to the car so I have no guarantee that she just won't return and take it again, so I have been "disabling" it when it is parked.  She did return all of the apartment keys, but no guarantee that she didn't make a copy.  I doubt it, though, because she has already taken everything she seems to want.

Now here's an interesting twist.  My brother who lives in Portland was very recently widowed.  All of his kids are grown so he is alone there.  He has offered to let me come and live with him. It would provide a nice mutual support system and a chance for me to get away from the constant threat of my wife taking the car or causing other problems. I'm thining it makes a lot of sense and I'm checking into the possibilty of a work transfer.  He is coming to town in about three weeks for some conferences, so I may just pack up what I need and drive back with him.  We've thought it best to not inform my wife of this until he arrives here, about three days before we would leave.  That way if she suddenly gets desperate to try something, he is here staying with me.  It would just require being very cautious for the next three weeks.  I would offer her the opportunity to move back into our apartment with most of the furnishings intact so she would have this plus avoid the cost of breaking the lease.

I really don't know how well she understands just how bad her situation is.  She basically has four choices:  She can agree to a quick divorce and then apply for removal of conditions on her own; she can resist and then be subject to deportation when her temporary visa expires; she can pursue DV charges and get the fast track; or she can just overstay her visa, in which case she will have all the difficulties that involves.

As for me personally, I would be happy to do whatever is reasonable to help her stay here and seek to reassure her of this.  Although these feelings are sincere, it also helps to avoid any sense of panic in her where she might be tempted to do something drastic, at least until I am in a safe place.

The big problem as I see it, and some have commented on this as a trait of RW (I personally think it is not related to country of origin), is that she still views this as some sort of game where there must be a winner and a loser.  The idea of a win-win situation hasn't occurred to her yet.  I'm still hoping to open her eyes to this possibility.

[Maxx2]

Now here's an interesting twist.  My brother who lives in Portland was very recently widowed.  All of his kids are grown so he is alone there.  He has offered to let me come and live with him. It would provide a nice mutual support system and a chance for me to get away from the constant threat of my wife taking the car or causing other problems. I'm thining it makes a lot of sense and I'm checking into the possibilty of a work transfer.  He is coming to town in about three weeks for some conferences, so I may just pack up what I need and drive back with him.  We've thought it best to not inform my wife of this until he arrives here, about three days before we would leave.  That way if she suddenly gets desperate to try something, he is here staying with me.  It would just require being very cautious for the next three weeks.  I would offer her the opportunity to move back into our apartment with most of the furnishings intact so she would have this plus avoid the cost of breaking the lease.

I really don't know how well she understands just how bad her situation is.  She basically has four choices:  She can agree to a quick divorce and then apply for removal of conditions on her own; she can resist and then be subject to deportation when her temporary visa expires; she can pursue DV charges and get the fast track; or she can just overstay her visa, in which case she will have all the difficulties that involves.

As for me personally, I would be happy to do whatever is reasonable to help her stay here and seek to reassure her of this.  Although these feelings are sincere, it also helps to avoid any sense of panic in her where she might be tempted to do something drastic, at least until I am in a safe place.

The big problem as I see it, and some have commented on this as a trait of RW (I personally think it is not related to country of origin), is that she still views this as some sort of game where there must be a winner and a loser.  The idea of a win-win situation hasn't occurred to her yet.  I'm still hoping to open her eyes to this possibility.

Here is some advice from an attorney who was in the position that Scott is in.

From an experienced person; I would like to offer the following advice to my friends here. Take what you think will help you.

1. Do not dwell or despair. If you have not completed the divorce or annulment yet, move as expeditiously as possible. Do not stall or delay; the more delay will only keep you in misery. Once you see the warning signs; fighting, cheating, etc, do not lie to yourself. Do not think she will change her mind or that there is some misunderstanding. Do not think she will cooperate with a divorce.

2. Annulment is better than divorce. It removes the stain from your life and reduces the likelihood of her keeping her green card and accusing you of abuse.

3. Do not contact USCIS until all is final. Once the annulment or divorce is final, write a careful, polite affidavit to USCIS about the facts of the case. Remove any hint of anger; just relay the facts. Then forget about it.

4.DO NOT post personal information about yourself on the internet. Your age, birthdates, former screen names, etc...can all be used to track you and against you. Delete all online identities and start fresh. Use different identities on match.com, AOL,etc so there is no connection. Never use your name in any form. It is easy to find out about people on the internet.

5. If possible start a new life in a new house or a new town.

6. Learn as much as possible about yourself from the experience. Do not waste the experience. There is much to learn from it.

7. Try to forgive her. In your heart, hope that she will find happiness. You can do this because you are a strong person. Remember, it took a seriously mentally ill and desperate person to commit such an act and now part of that illness has infected you. You need to purge yourself of this evil as much as possible. It will not be easy,and it will take a long time. Forgive yourself also

[Jumper]

Scott,
I am truly sorry to hear this, and wish you good luck.

you would think she would be smart enough to read the BCIS website and recognize that with a quicky divorce or even legal seperation she can easily file AOS herself



for what its worth during our AOS interview(several years  ago ) i told the "interviewer " how truly odd the situation was ,

that as a still married couple , we had to wait 2 years, provide all kinds of evidence that we were in fact still married and
living together as man and wife,
and even when we did so,,the BCIS found it not enough evidence (even though thier denial letter stated clearly
 that we had provided all possible !!!  excepting a birthcertificatre for any children (which we did not have )

yet if my wife had used me as a mule
(what the whole 2 year AOS for conditional visa is about)
she could simply file for legal sepration within two weeks of being here,
contend that she entered into the marriage faithfully but it just did not work out,
(easily done actually),  and likely get a fast track to AOS..year sbefore being elgible as a married couple.
or the two of us could have agreed to do that "sham together" ,,
got back together (never actually seperating) and she would have had her AOS two years sooner
irony at best.

anyway sorry for the BCiS rant..
but the point is she could easily do this,
 especially with you being supportive of the idea it was a legitimate marriage that simply failed from uncommon life goals,or changes
in the relationship overall.

i hope shes sees that,that avenue is likely the best for you both.


i'm certainly noone to look to for advise..
but can speak from experience of being widowed.

 if i was in your shoes, and could transfer work,,
I would certainly take the opportunity to live with your brother.
he could likely very much use your support and companionship,even if its just being there ,  and you his.

not to mention the big added benefit of extracted yourself from the
"area of conflict"
(always a good idea on any losing battlefield,which most any divorce is )


again i'm sorry to hear,, and wish you (both) good luck



 

[ambach123]

Scott, I apologize for my earlier outbursts, please forgive me.

I am sorry. I was wrong.

You are suffering and I am sympathetic to you.

It is that I have been badgered mercilessly here because I may happen to think differently. If everyone thinks the same there would be no discussion, and personal attacks don't help the discussions.

Your post on this  matter are enlightening, and have a lot of value, and I commend you to be brave enough to describe them in details as you have. I don't think I would have in me to do that, if I was in that difficult situation as you.

The money issue as you and others have described is very telling. I try to watch out for that.

The three women I met or scheduled to meet paid their own way to meet me ( though I offered to reimburse, none accepted). I am generous in entertaining them they know that from the get go, and I am not naive not to know that perhaps that has been a major factor in their professing their " deep love ".

The RW I am scheduled to meet claims that she just wants " a simple life, in which we spend a lot of time together ", how simple? I have to view that very carefully after reading some of the comments here.

If and when she comes here, our finances would be completely separate, she has nothing to do with mine. That would be absolute.

Nontheless there are many things I and other people can learn from your posts.

My experience with RW is limited at best, I am trying to learn from your experienc and that of others, and hope to understand them better before I make a decision in choosing onr. That is one of the reasons I have delayed making any final decision; ignorance is NOT a bliss in this case. Someone who jumps into it, without understanding them does so at his own peril.

Again thanks for sharing.

[Chicagoguy]

What that lawyer said in Maxx2's post is scary. If she were reading RWD she would know all your thoughts and plans.

This would apply to any of us in any situation on RWD.

[BC]

Scott, I apologize for my earlier outbursts, please forgive me.

I am sorry. I was wrong.

You are suffering and I am sympathetic to you.

It is that I have been badgered mercilessly here because I may happen to think differently. If everyone thinks the same there would be no discussion, and personal attacks don't help the discussions.

Your post on this  matter are enlightening, and have a lot of value, and I commend you to be brave enough to describe them in details as you have. I don't think I would have in me to do that, if I was in that difficult situation as you.

The money issue as you and others have described is very telling. I try to watch out for that.

The three women I met or scheduled to meet paid their own way to meet me ( though I offered to reimburse, none accepted). I am generous in entertaining them they know that from the get go, and I am not naive not to know that perhaps that has been a major factor in their professing their " deep love ".

The RW I am scheduled to meet claims that she just wants " a simple life, in which we spend a lot of time together ", how simple? I have to view that very carefully after reading some of the comments here.

If and when she comes here, our finances would be completely separate, she has nothing to do with mine. That would be absolute.

Nontheless there are many things I and other people can learn from your posts.

My experience with RW is limited at best, I am trying to learn from your experienc and that of others, and hope to understand them better before I make a decision in choosing onr. That is one of the reasons I have delayed making any final decision; ignorance is NOT a bliss in this case. Someone who jumps into it, without understanding them does so at his own peril.

Again thanks for sharing.

Now that is the best post I've seen yet from your pen.  A touch of humility changes everything.

Thanks.

[Diplomacy]

Ambach:

Nice post.

[ScottinCrimea]

ambach, No offense, but I had to look twice to be sure it was actually you that posted that.  It shows a side of you that hasn't been seen here, and I think it will change how many here view you and how they respond to you.  Thank you for the apology and kind words.

Apology accepted.

[JNSampson]

Scott,

Dave Evans suggested I contact you. It appears you have a mess on your hands. Perhaps I can help. If you can email me directly through this board, do so. If not, send me an email at : jnsampson51@comcast.net.

John Sampson
Aurora, Co

[Maxx2]

Scott,

Dave Evans suggested I contact you.

I'm Dave Evans and John Sampson is

My name is John Sampson. I am a recently retired DHS / ICE agent with 27+ years of experience in immigration law enforcement. My specialty has been investigating marriage fraud, and most recently VAWA fraud, perpetrated upon unsuspecting American citizens by foreign nationals seeking the easy way into this country by using American citizens as their "ticket".

Scott, I am not the best communicator. I expect people to read between the lines. I'll make this plan. At the stage you are in is the most critical time when these marriages break up. Soon your wife will realise that every route to her getting a green card save one, is chancey and expensive. A "good faith attempt at marriage" I-751 comes with expensive immigration attorney costs and is 50 50 at best whether it will be granted even with your help and cooperation. The DV route is the one most immigration attorneys will suggest. To do this she will need "primary evidence" as the USCIC calls it. That is police reports, restraining orders, pictures of scratches and bruises, affidavits from school and welfare officials of their belief in her being abused, proof of living in a shelter and so on. There are ways to counter some of this and to mitigate the damages in a coming trial(s). John Sampson has seen it all and if you want you can talk with him and get his advice.

Maxx 

[mark2353]

Scott, I apologize for my earlier outbursts, please forgive me.

I am sorry. I was wrong.

You are suffering and I am sympathetic to you.

It is that I have been badgered mercilessly here because I may happen to think differently. If everyone thinks the same there would be no discussion, and personal attacks don't help the discussions.

Your post on this  matter are enlightening, and have a lot of value, and I commend you to be brave enough to describe them in details as you have. I don't think I would have in me to do that, if I was in that difficult situation as you.

The money issue as you and others have described is very telling. I try to watch out for that.

The three women I met or scheduled to meet paid their own way to meet me ( though I offered to reimburse, none accepted). I am generous in entertaining them they know that from the get go, and I am not naive not to know that perhaps that has been a major factor in their professing their " deep love ".

The RW I am scheduled to meet claims that she just wants " a simple life, in which we spend a lot of time together ", how simple? I have to view that very carefully after reading some of the comments here.

If and when she comes here, our finances would be completely separate, she has nothing to do with mine. That would be absolute.

Nontheless there are many things I and other people can learn from your posts.

My experience with RW is limited at best, I am trying to learn from your experienc and that of others, and hope to understand them better before I make a decision in choosing onr. That is one of the reasons I have delayed making any final decision; ignorance is NOT a bliss in this case. Someone who jumps into it, without understanding them does so at his own peril.

Again thanks for sharing.

Ambach, for whatever is worth I am proud of you for this posting! It took some B*** to post this! great post!

[mendeleyev]

Scott, I don't get around here that often and just saw this thread.  I'm shocked and saddened for you.  My prayers and heartfelt sorrow are with you.

[Simoni]

Dear Scott,

Although we have communicated by PM about the breakup, I'd like to come out publicly to express my sadness that is has occurred in your life.  But most of all, I'd like to commend you for being a man and facing this selflessly--by sharing, seeking advice, and allowing all to learn from it.

I'd also like to echo my opinion that a change of location would be excellent.  Transfer to Portland if you can.

Blessings to you, and all good wishes,

~Simoni

[Makkin]

Scott,

  Sorry about the current situation your in. I think you are the type person who can adapt and adjust to these things. Having read you here many times and understood and not understood you at times it makes sense that you will find a way to have a good ending to this.
   When Gator mentioned you were from "THE" road less traveled in made me think of that book that read..Road Less Traveled...It is without "THE".
    Doing the hard things first is something we should all try to do rather than taking the easy way out yes? You are doing this it seems and in the end it will work out for you.

Makkin
   

[ScottinCrimea]

It's only been a week but I seem to be making the necessary adjustments and adapting to the new situation.  The job transfer to Portland didn't pan out, so I am looking at possible new jobs to consider. Anyone out there hiring? 

For the moment the relationship appears to be amicable, though there isn't talk of reconciliation and we don't see each other.  She's in the process of getting her new life set up.

I'm not in a big hurry right now to rush the divorce.  Not that I want to stay together necessarily, but that I see no immediate benefit to doing so.  I know some will disagree, but I understand the issues and it makes sense for me right now.  In a somewhat twisted sense, should she not get the conditions removed on her visa and has to leave, that would make it easier to reclaim the material assets.

I guess that's the thing that really ticks me off.  I spent a lot of time, effort and money to get her and her daughter over here and she seems to be just pissing it away.  Every move she is making increases the difficulty of renewing her visa no matter what the circumstances.

Anyway, life is shifting to a different track but moving forward.

Scott

[Makkin]

  Scott you will do fine in this situation I'm feeling. The real thing seems to be about the assesment of yourself and the ability to allow others to do this in an honest way. It's like when you don't want to hear criticism but act forwardly to accept it and move on. You appear to want input but will you learn from it?

  So many details we do not understand but so personal as it is means we are not allowed to know things unless you share them with us. The ability to put things on the table for others to help you here is your decision and in all honesty you will be in our thoughts and prayers.

Makkin
 

[bobb]

There were no incidents and she did get the computer back, though she called later when she discovered that everything was password protected.  I explained that as soon as she put the rent money I had paid to her into my account that she keeps promising to return I would giver her the passwords.

Scott:

I read this and was wondering if you deleted your browsing history, cookies, passwords, bookmarks, auto-complete entries, etc. in your browser settings and anything in your email sent folder before giving her the computer?  Or maybe it won't matter if she doesn't have access to your user account. 

[ISORW]

Scott, I am very sorry to hear about what has happened to you.  I was married once to a RW, 9 years age difference, and we were divorced 2 years ago.  It was quite devastating and not something I'd wish on anyone.  You probably don't remember me, I left this forum after posting about meeting a much younger UW and I did not care for your response and those of others who thought I was trolling for a younger woman...but that's in the past.  I hold not grudge and only sorrow at seeing another AM/RW-UW marriage end.

My advice is to take care of yourself, and be very, very careful.  I'm sure you've already considered this but my ex would act conciliatory and friendly when it suited her then she quickly tried to turn the tables with the advantages she'd weaseled out of me by pretending to continue to be my friend.  You do not want to get caught at a disadvantage.

I applaud you for opening up the events of your divorce.  I may not always have agreed with you, but it takes a lot to air their story publicly.  I am quite embarrassed at those who choose this moment to kick someone when they are down.  Be careful how you treat those in need - the world has a way of returning the favor via karma.