Statistical abberation

[Vaughn]

37 years 7 months and 4 days if you want to get technical and precise. 

Dang, Ray - you really robbed the cradle, LOL. All jokes aside, had I done the same, I'd have to wonder about the
predictable reaction from my family members - not that I would've taken stock in it. Still, the chasm would have
been wide enough so as to affect what is now a positive, accepted and loving dynamic.

A cousin and 2 brothers-in-law, all attorneys, would have been waving the pre-nup papers in my face. Definitely.
My sisters would have nominated me as a candidate for a frontal lobotomy.
My two American daughters might accept her as a friend on MySpace - but not much beyond that.

We sport a 12 year 8 month difference in age. For us, I was probably as old as she would consider, and she
was definitely at the young end of my threshold. When we met, that stigma dissipated. We don't even think
about it anymore.

We wish you and vwrw much love and happiness. You've certainly weathered many beatings here over the issue.

Vaughn

[Turboguy]

Thanks for the good wishes Vaughn.   We really haven't had many family issues and my kids always did what they felt was right without much regard for what I or thier mother thought so it has not been a problem at all.   I think I can honestly say I have never met anyone whose company I enjoy more than VWRW and it has been a blast dealing with the issues of her adapting to life here.   She has adapted easily but it has really been a lot of fun to help her with the language, to teach her to drive, and to help her make her life what she wants it to be.  Guys who marry AW don't know what they are missing.

[Ade]

Thanks for the good wishes Vaughn.   We really haven't had many family issues and my kids always did what they felt was right without much regard for what I or thier mother thought so it has not been a problem at all.   I think I can honestly say I have never met anyone whose company I enjoy more than VWRW and it has been a blast dealing with the issues of her adapting to life here.   She has adapted easily but it has really been a lot of fun to help her with the language, to teach her to drive, and to help her make her life what she wants it to be.  Guys who marry AW don't know what they are missing.

So, do you plan on having kids together?

[Turboguy]

So, do you plan on having kids together?

Probably no.  If she decides she wants a child or children the most likely possibility is that we will adopt.  If she changes her mind and decides she wants her own child I would agree to it.  The thought of running after a rug rat would not particularly scare me nor would I find it physically or mentally challenging.  We would both be aware that there would be a chance that I would not be around to see him or her graduate from College.  I don't however look for her to change her mind about that.

[Misha]

Turbo, how much longer before your wife gets her 10-year green card?

[Vaughn]

Ray, I am sure you exceed the maximum age allowable for most adoption agencies. There are
private adoptions, of course, that bend the accepted norms - at great cost. The majority of
adoptions, within the USA at least, utilize home studies (which felt intrusive, but in retrospect
I applaud their purpose) and consider age, income, stability and fertility issues as qualifiers.

It's all about placing a child in a stable environment with a healthy life expectancy. You and I,
rapidly approaching our golden years, would be summarily bypassed for younger folks. And
to me, that makes good sense.

My apology to KenC for wandering off course.

[Zhena]

Come on,dont be so tough on Turbo. He is just full of charm How could any girl just think of leaving him,his always fun. Fortunately,the man can be a father at any age,if he has the good genes.
Ken C,no sympathy,you just take it as a real man-keep it that way,buddy,you re strong and wise.

[Turboguy]

Misha, Not soon enough and her citizenship won't come soon enough either.  I will be happy not to have to fool with the USCIS any more.

Vaughn, Thanks for the information.  It all makes sense and I will get more concerned with those options when we decide it is a course we might want to take.  What you say seems to me like things they should consider but I believe I have even seen single people able to adopt.  I appreciate your sharing that.

Zhena, thanks for the nice comments. 

Ken, I agree Zhena, you have handled things well and I am sure it was very difficult for you.  I think it was good to talk a break and let things settle down and I think you have done a good thing in discussing it so that others may learn.  From you initial post, I think you expected some negativity and really with a few exceptions people have been very supportive.

What I am going to say next could be taken wrong.  I am not even sure how to say this or what I am asking but I will bring this up just to see what comments come from it.   Personally, I enjoy your posts.  I enjoy it if I agree with you and enjoy sometimes being on the opposite side of an argument.  You are a good debater and always add some insight and often a touch of wisdom.  I think you are a big plus for RWD.  I would even enjoy sitting and having a beer with you which I hope will happen when I am in San Deigo next Feb.  However the Ken C we see on RWD is very pretty outspoken and strongwilled.  I could add a few more but I don't want this to be taken as mudslinging.   To be honest, if I were a Mexican day worker my impression of you is that you would be a very tough person to work for and you would probably be my last choice as a boss if I were a grunt.  If I were a RW I would probably also not put you high on my list and would look for someone who I saw as a little more easygoing and less dynamic.   So my question is this.  Is the KenC we see on RWD the real KenC?   I do think some people are far different in real life than they come across in the forums.  Is that the case with you or is what we see what Lena got?   

[I/O]

the trait that most Russian's exhibit of never giving up.

I've seen more than my fair share of Russians who are just as capable of quitting as any other race so I have never quite bought this as an accurate generality.

I know exactly what you are speaking about with your reference to delayed shock.  I went through a life threatening hurricane on Grand Cayman around 89 or 90.  I was on vacation with my first wife and two of our closest friends.  In this dilemma, the three of them totally lost it and I had to be the rock to make the life saving decisions.  I had a strange detachment to on going events and calmly took the steps to best remedy the situation at hand.  I remained in this semi-robotic mode until we were all safely home.  Once home, I was explaining things to my young son and broke down sobbing.  All the repressed emotions came out.

The manifestation for me was something very different. A indecisiveness on a range of subjects imposed itself on me, something which was more foreign than a Russian G/F.

I/O

[Gator]

To be honest, if I were a Mexican day worker my impression of you is that you would be a very tough person to work for and you would probably be my last choice as a boss if I were a grunt.    

Ken comes across as crusty when exchanging posts at RWD.   A crusty boss is fine if he knows what he is doing and is fair.

I do think some people are far different in real life than they come across in the forums.  Is that the case with you or is what we see what Lena got?

I don't know but I imagine that Ken was very protective and supportive of Lena in the style of a strong man, something a 20-yo RW would find very attractive.  Now that she has achieved independence, perhaps that style is not as important.  Here I am, presuming stuff like Maxx did.

If I were a RW I would probably also not put you high on my list and would look for someone who I saw as a little more easygoing and less dynamic.   

Brace yourself for the following:  If you ever talk with Ken, you will discover that he has a SOH and laughs.  I said brace yourself.  Did it hurt when you fell from your chair and hit the floor?

Besides, there are all types of RW.

[Gator]

KenC,

I find it interesting that you are considering returning to the FSU.  Most RW I dated were in the 40+ category.   They are remarkable women, at their peak in many ways.  They are not girls with trite, sometimes silly ideas such as believing their beauty is their only asset.   Being more mature, they usually know what will make them happy.   

Because RW have children early, most 40+ are empty nesters.   Passing this stage changes women. RW empty nesters have endured difficult times and are very careful about the thought of marriage.  Basically, they are looking for a brand new life and want a worthy man beside them.  

You will find many with interesting backgrounds such as I did:  a successful model-circus performer-Olympic tryout (my ex-fiancée), a highly educated mathematician whose first job with Soviet Space group was modeling the trajectory of ICBMs targeted at the US, a violinist who traveled through Europe with an orchestra, well paid business executives, etc.  They have presence.

Yes, they are WOMEN.  And they still look fantastic - taking care of their bodies, and having that mellow beauty that speaks volumes.

They want to pursue new hobbies, to travel, to taste all that they may have missed.  Important point, they have seen a lot of BS and betrayal over their years, so they tend to be skeptics.  Not a problem for you because you are one of the most forthright men at RWD.

Corresponding with them will be fun.  I suggest that you write many because not a small percentage seem bitter or really have nothing going on between the ears or something else, explaining their lack of a man.   Meeting a couple of gems will be even more fun.  I believe some will accept that you will wish to take your time in developing the relationship, considering your situation.  BTW, it is relatively easy for 40+ RW to come to America on a tourist visa.

And one final point, you need not be so concerned  with the fact that a still developing young woman will grow into something much different from where she was when the relationship started. 

[SMS60]

KenC,

I find it interesting that you are considering returning to the FSU.  Most RW I dated were in the 40+ category.   They are remarkable women, at their peak in many ways.  They are not girls with trite, sometimes silly ideas such as believing their beauty is their only asset.   Being more mature, they usually know what will make them happy.   

Because RW have children early, most 40+ are empty nesters.   Passing this stage changes women. RW empty nesters have endured difficult times and are very careful about the thought of marriage.  Basically, they are looking for a brand new life and want a worthy man beside them.  

You will find many with interesting backgrounds such as I did:  a successful model-circus performer-Olympic tryout (my ex-fiancée), a highly educated mathematician whose first job with Soviet Space group was modeling the trajectory of ICBMs targeted at the US, a violinist who traveled through Europe with an orchestra, well paid business executives, etc.  They have presence.

Yes, they are WOMEN.  And they still look fantastic - taking care of their bodies, and having that mellow beauty that speaks volumes.

They want to pursue new hobbies, to travel, to taste all that they may have missed.  Important point, they have seen a lot of BS and betrayal over their years, so they tend to be skeptics.  Not a problem for you because you are one of the most forthright men at RWD.

Corresponding with them will be fun.  I suggest that you write many because not a small percentage seem bitter or really have nothing going on between the ears or something else, explaining their lack of a man.   Meeting a couple of gems will be even more fun.  I believe some will accept that you will wish to take your time in developing the relationship, considering your situation.  BTW, it is relatively easy for 40+ RW to come to America on a tourist visa.

And one final point, you need not be so concerned  with the fact that a still developing young woman will grow into something much different from where she was when the relationship started. 

Gator, when I read your posts.........half the time I disagree and the other half I agree with.

This is a very good post. Every man over 40 should read this. In fact it should be dressed up and made part of the commandments.

[kievstar]

Gator is a well spoken man through is words.  One of the top knowledgable people IMO on any Russian board.  Said people as Olga H is very knowledgable as well. 

[docetae]

This is a very good post. Every man over 40 should read this. In fact it should be dressed up and made part of the commandments.

I will add that age difference should not be seen as a criteria and this is good for all ..from 30 to 70...

[KenC]

   To be honest, if I were a Mexican day worker my impression of you is that you would be a very tough person to work for and you would probably be my last choice as a boss if I were a grunt.

Funny that the 30 Mexicans that worked for me were all very happy campers!   One of my closest griends here in CA is my Mexican foreman.  I am actually quite proficient at managing people having begun in the auto industry at a very young age.  During that time I rose to a managment position where I a trouble shooter, going from one dept to another straightening things out, turning the area into a cohesive well run team only to move to the next f***ked up area.  My MO has never wavered since those days.  I used to give a speech to my new workers when I took over another area back then.  "We can play this two ways.  If you choose to come to work on time everyday and do your job as expected, I can be your best friend.  No other supervisor will mess with you, I guarantee that, you will be treated with respect and I will help you to do your job in any way possible.  Now if you choose to come to work late, miss days and not perform you duties required, I will be your worst nightmare.  The choice is yours."  I didn't really need to embelish on the nightmare part as my reputation was well known.  After about 30 days "my guys" would kill for me.  Of course the deadheads would transfer out before they faced my rath too.    Either way, the dept was turned into a well run team of content workers.

 

If I were a RW I would probably also not put you high on my list and would look for someone who I saw as a little more easygoing and less dynamic.   So my question is this.  Is the KenC we see on RWD the real KenC?   I do think some people are far different in real life than they come across in the forums.  Is that the case with you or is what we see what Lena got?   

I disagree with the first sentence here.  I think that RW (or really all women) are attracted to confident dynamic men.  Of course I had a softer gentler side too, as described in my trip report.  But Lena is not a shy woman either.  She is a strong and confident woman.  With her and my strong personalities, it did cause some conflicts.  More than I prefered.  Lena was not too worried about them as her family loves to debate and go back and forth on many issues.  When I do look for another woman, I will seek a person with a calmer nature.
KenC

[Mir]

So I guess the criteria to make a RW happy is to be able to keep Mexican workers happy, interesting.

[KenC]

Ken comes across as crusty when exchanging posts at RWD.   A crusty boss is fine if he knows what he is doing and is fair.

Exactly
 

I don't know but I imagine that Ken was very protective and supportive of Lena in the style of a strong man, something a 20-yo RW would find very attractive.  Now that she has achieved independence, perhaps that style is not as important.  Here I am, presuming stuff like Maxx did.

You got it right here too, Gator my friend.  I am very protective and supportive of my loved ones.  Of course, one can be overly protective too.  I think that it is easy to over protect a woman from a foreign country during their transition to America.  It is a a line that men have to walk after they arrive, slowly letting go and allowing the woman to be more independent as they learn our culture.  As far a being supportive, I know that is the one thing Lena misses most, is my constant support of her obtaining her goals.
 KenC

[KenC]

KenC,

I find it interesting that you are considering returning to the FSU.  Most RW I dated were in the 40+ category.   They are remarkable women, at their peak in many ways.  They are not girls with trite, sometimes silly ideas such as believing their beauty is their only asset.   Being more mature, they usually know what will make them happy.   

Because RW have children early, most 40+ are empty nesters.   Passing this stage changes women. RW empty nesters have endured difficult times and are very careful about the thought of marriage.  Basically, they are looking for a brand new life and want a worthy man beside them.  

You will find many with interesting backgrounds such as I did:  a successful model-circus performer-Olympic tryout (my ex-fiancée), a highly educated mathematician whose first job with Soviet Space group was modeling the trajectory of ICBMs targeted at the US, a violinist who traveled through Europe with an orchestra, well paid business executives, etc.  They have presence.

Yes, they are WOMEN.  And they still look fantastic - taking care of their bodies, and having that mellow beauty that speaks volumes.

They want to pursue new hobbies, to travel, to taste all that they may have missed.  Important point, they have seen a lot of BS and betrayal over their years, so they tend to be skeptics.  Not a problem for you because you are one of the most forthright men at RWD.

Corresponding with them will be fun.  I suggest that you write many because not a small percentage seem bitter or really have nothing going on between the ears or something else, explaining their lack of a man.   Meeting a couple of gems will be even more fun.  I believe some will accept that you will wish to take your time in developing the relationship, considering your situation.  BTW, it is relatively easy for 40+ RW to come to America on a tourist visa.

And one final point, you need not be so concerned  with the fact that a still developing young woman will grow into something much different from where she was when the relationship started. 

Gator,
Again, you seem to read my mind.  (One heck of a good post too)  The difference you sight, are music to my ears.  Even in the little bit I have done so far, I see the big difference between a RW with life experiences from those without.  It is the calmness and stability I seek.
KenC

[Vaughn]

KenC, with no discredit to your former lady, your best days lie yet ahead.

Buddy - you are a rock.

[Ronnie]

Ken, looking at the calendar, it appears when we spoke on the phone last summer you were in the throes of your separation.   This split after ten years is a difficult one for both of you to be sure.  I have been through a 21-year marriage with children, followed by a 9-year marriage and now Irina and I will celebrate our 5-year anniversay in a couple months.

A lot of words have been written here wondering why KenC posted his story.  Who can say for sure except Ken?  But here's where the great value lies for all of us, especially those who are in the seeking/selecting stage:

I/O wrote.. "To my way of thinking, strange to some though it may be, the real value is in seeing where mistakes were made relating SPECIFICALLY to the subject marriage or former marriage in question and maybe learning something from them."
I/O may look at the sky and see different stars than many of us do, but his view on this thread is indentical to mine.  KenC has, in essence, "donated" his experience for the benefit of research and a post mortem examination is necessary to distill the helpful observations.

Of particular interest in Ken's case are:

The large age difference'

His health issues;
 
His financial issues;

The child/no child issue;

What I'm not seeing as an issue in his case is any lack of bona fides on Lena's part from the beginning.

I'm also not seeing Ken's personality as an influencing factor unless he disagrees.

Ken's case more or less confirms some of my theories about the RW/AM marriage.

1) The greater the age difference, the greater the risk factor.

1a) Young women in their twenties, should not be held accountable for their attitudes and decisions, particularly in regards to motherhood.  They are still maturing and can be expected to change over the ensuing years;

2) Men have a tendency to over-estimate their physical appeal to women.  We also think appearance doesn't matter as much to RW as it does to AW.   This miscalculation is probably rooted in the fact that older, less attractive men can go to the FSU and bring back a young attractive woman as his wife.

3) Men have a tendency to underestimate the effects that perceived wealth have on a woman, particularly one from less well-off countries.  No woman admits this effect directly but she reveals this truth indirectly if we will only recognize the signs.  This is a matter of hard-wiring in women just as a man is hard-wired to prefer a particular hair color or breast measurement in women.
They and we talk about these preferences with our own gender but it seldom becomes a topic of intergender discussion. 
(note that none of the RW on this thread have refuted the suggestion that Ken's current business instability has influenced the relationship).  I've witnessed this reality in my own and other couples' marriages/relationships many times.

4) I skipped over health issues because it appears to me that this is the most devastating of all the issues because it elicits all the worst fears that women have about their husband:  -Poor health ages a man's appearance; poor health will make him a worse/failed provider for me and my children; and, poor health can lead to me being the head of the family shouldering alone the burdens that my husband  shoulders, and worse, should he live as an invalid, I will become completely overwhelmed.

Men, ask yourselves if a women who does not see herself strong enough to bear and raise children, can see herself strong enough to bathe you, dress you, feed you and administer your medicine 7 days a week with no relief.

These are the realities of a life together.  Choosing wisely the most correct partner from the available alternatives involves considering these questions as prerequisite to all other considerations.

(KenC, you offered that we should go to a Padres game.  Let's do it.  I'm now living closer to Petco than you so you can drive!)     

[KenC]

Ronnie,
Your post is right on the money.  Look for a PM.
KenC

[Maxx2]

But Lena is not a shy woman either.  She is a strong and confident woman.  With her and my strong personalities, it did cause some conflicts.  More than I prefered.  Lena was not too worried about them as her family loves to debate and go back and forth on many issues.  When I do look for another woman, I will seek a person with a calmer nature.
KenC

Gator, I presumed this stuff as well. That is why I suggested he look for a "sweet kind woman" and not someone prone to argue.

I have photos of them of from four years ago. They look like a happy couple. Her smiles looked genuine. I presumed Ken was behind the camera. So I presume the good out weighed the bad (argumentative nature) for Ken. I see no evidence that he was concerned about her spending ways. He jokes about it on the last page of his trip report.   

I wish Ken well even though I know (presume?) he will probably tell me to shove it. 


Maxx

[bobb]

...I see the big difference between a RW with life experiences from those without.  It is the calmness and stability I seek.

This is a very big reason, I believe, why I have such confidence with my fiance.  I am 60, she is 57.  I do have to admit though that the choices for women over 50 seem to be very slim.  I had seen her profile on EM and didn't believe her photos were recent.  Then she contacted me and I found out I was wrong.

[KenC]

Gator, I presumed this stuff as well. That is why I suggested he look for a "sweet kind woman" and not someone prone to argue.

I have photos of them of from four years ago. They look like a happy couple. Her smiles looked genuine. I presumed Ken was behind the camera. So I presume the good out weighed the bad (argumentative nature) for Ken. I see no evidence that he was concerned about her spending ways. He jokes about it on the last page of his trip report.   

I wish Ken well even though I know (presume?) he will probably tell me to shove it. 


Maxx

Maxx,
Due to your lies, twisting of the truth and false presumptions displayed up thread, I really have lost all respect for you.  Please now just go away.  Or at least discontinue post in this thread.  Your views are unwelcome.
KenC

[Maxx2]

No lies, just keeping confidential my sources. I could really care less what you think of me. It is YOUR telling the big lie over and over again that needed to be dealt with. "It takes two special people to pull off a large age difference marriage" your words. Are you telling us that you are special? And this business that you just accidentally fell in love with Lena? You put yourself in that position buster. Then this about how you think you have the right to clue bat and psychologically abuse anyone you disagree with but will not tolerate anyone who questions you? So you think you are Big Daddy and the sycophant "no trip wonders" should line up and tell you how much they respect you? What a posse you have.


Maxx