Realities of FSUW

[Gator]

BTW, I am thinking- how much is an average teenager  a month?
What are we considering? Food, clothing, sport, school lunches, movie theaters.
What else? Add the ticket to go to Russia (or any home country).

The costs you listed seem insignificant compared to orthodontics, private school (in some locales you would have to dislike your kids to send them to public school), university education, when they get into trouble, plus loss of the parents' time.

[Doll]

acrzybear, are you married, do you have kids? Just asking

[acrzybear]

acrzybear, are you married, do you have kids? Just asking

 No and no,

 So is your  next point going to be that since I have never been married and have no children then I know nothing of the subject?

Just asking.

[Doll]

The costs you listed seem insignificant compared to orthodontics, private school (in some locales you would have to dislike your kids to send them to public school), university education, when they get into trouble, plus loss of the parents' time.

No University so far, but yes- medical things also. My son goes to public school, minor troubles and a big chunk of our time. 6 times a week is his sport and CAP, then the rest of our time is also his

[Doll]

No and no,

 So is your  next point going to be that since I have never been married and have no children then I know nothing of the subject?

Just asking.

No, but a married with kids man would define a happiness differently.

[acrzybear]

  I think that if I was married with children I would be more concerned about my children and wife's health and happiness then my own. A family changes the dynamics of everything.  But when a person is single, things are easier.

 

[remiel6]

In defence, I do not know about misha, I was talking about the story posted on page one about  the woman who divorced her husband because he would not buy her a new car. Presents, at least to me were not suppose be breakfast in bed, flowers, or other such things. I was referring to women who would throw down an ultimatum that if they do not get the BMW they want then they pout, feel offended and divorce you. How does this suddenly go to kids and children. I don't have kids, that does not mean I don't know anything or my opinion is worthless. I don't hold things out of your control against you, so I would ask not to hold the fact that I do not have children against me.
I would never be upset with a woman who expressed concern about if her husband could provide for their children. That being said some of the best parents I have ever known did not give their children endless presents. I have paid my own way thru college. That was the deal. I was an adult and had to figure out how to pay for this stuff like an adult would. if you treat people like their are helpless, don't be surprised when they become helpless

[Doll]

  I think that if I was married with children I would be more concerned about my children and wife's health and happiness then my own. A family changes the dynamics of everything.  But when a person is single, things are easier.

 

They are

[Mir]

  In the 4+ years I've been on this forum I find it interesting how so many people place such high importance on money

I suppose you mean to say that you are not one of these people?

have my health, food in the pantry, a roof over my head, a good secure recession proof job and I can afford to travel to foreign lands several times a year and almost no debt and money in the bank.

And you can do all this without any money? What is your secret?

[Doll]

kids and children.

What's the difference?

[Doll]

What is your secret?

Also I would like to know what  job allows a person to "several times travel abroad"?
Are you a business owner?

Mir , the secret is his job, I am sure. Well paid and lots of free time.

[acrzybear]

I suppose you mean to say that you are not one of these people?

And you can do all this without any money? What is your secret?

 Never said I could do it without money and no I am not one of these "people".  Money allows me to travel and buy material things, however can money buy the look on your child's face when they are happy to see you at an important event in their life? Can money buy you time to spend with your loved ones?

  I have seen the worst society has to offer and I have seen the best and I can tell you money is not the final answer everything that people think it is.  

People have different values and goals, some are more materialistic then others.

[acrzybear]

Also I would like to know what  job allows a person to "several times travel abroad"?
Are you a business owner?

Mir , the secret is his job, I am sure. Well paid and lots of free time.

No I am not well paid and I am not a business owner.  I am just a simple civil servant that has been very lucky with my career.  I get 5 weeks vacation a year, I work 4 days a week for 10 hours and am off for 3, out of approximately 20 Supervisors there are only 2 with more seniority then I. It is no secret on this forum what my profession is.

[brucen36]

  however can money buy the look on your child's face when they are happy to see you at an important event in their life?

As a matter of fact it can.  Just compare the rate of survival of newborns in rich countries versus that of third world (i.e. poor) countries.  People seem to take some things very much for granted after being brought up in well to do countries.

[Wienerin]

Wienerin,may I ask you politely,how did you get in usa(ure here,as I see from your profile),do you have a good job,do you have the kids? Have you been married?
And would you deal with the man who will tell you that all he needs is the obsereve the sunrise and enjoy the birds songs? And he invites you to share this life with him? You feel a chemistry for him-but will you risk to marry him?

Politely? Of course, always welcome I got to the USA on an airplane... No, I didn't marry an American. I have a very good and satisfying job. I have two kids, one of whom also has a kid. My kids are older than you are, and they live in StPetersburg and Vilnius. I have been married twice, and now I live (for 17 years) with my boyfriend, The Boatswain.

Why do you ask me about this star-gazing man? I do not know even where I could meet such a person. I do not like Nature (not much, anyway, and not to live in - civilization developed almost 7 thousand years ago, surely not by people who liked to live as lilies-of-the-field whi neither sow nor spin ) except water, and I love city dwelling. I definetely would not wish to marry a person alien to me in all particulars.

But do not listen to Sculpto - his case is rather unique... also he knows that if things were really bad, his family would rescue him. He would not starve, go barefoot , freeze under a hedge or die for lack of proper medical care. And let's wait for the development of his saga - I reserve my opinion for now...

As to a man I could love and marry or live with - he will love mostly same things I love, and of course he'll love his work and will want to reach to the top in his profession. He'll love travel, cities, books, music, theater, antiques, languid unhurried life have a great sense of humor - that is ability to appreciate my jokes Be kind and tender. Be a handyman (not necessary but nice). Everything else is incidental - appearance, material possessions, etc. He has to have an open mind though - be tolerant to different opinions.

[Misha]

I am only guessing, yet the two of you impress me as men in their 40s who have never had a child, or at least your wife/girlfriend does not have children.

That's okay Gator, you impress me as a Sugar Daddy  

[Misha]

Let's leave Misha alone but I'll tell you,Wienerin, ,many men so-called executives don't do it just because of their nature.
So you say that the loveyou note on the fridge is very typical in most of families?
I doubt.

IIRC, your husband canceled your credit cards while you were in Russia, did not want you to come back and you had to threaten him with DV so he would not divorce you. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I recall you sharing on another thread. Is this typical in most families? 

[goforit]

It is typical IMHO when both men and women marry for love 

You know I want to marry for love, but if the woman I love and want to marry doesn't want children and I do, or is vehemently opposed to my religion while I am a devoted practitioner, or thinks marriage is a male plot to subjugate women (just three examples off the top of my head) then all the love in the world is not going to overcome any of that. Which is to say there are other considerations in a relationship than just love, however you define it. Love is kind, but it is not blind (at least it shouldn't be) to the reality of all the dynamics that come into play in a successful marital relationship.

[Misha]

You know I want to marry for love, but if the woman I love and want to marry doesn't want children and I do, or is vehemently opposed to my religion while I am a devoted practitioner, or thinks marriage is a male plot to subjugate women (just three examples off the top of my head) then all the love in the world is not going to overcome any of that. Which is to say there are other considerations in a relationship than just love, however you define it. Love is kind, but it is not blind (at least it shouldn't be) to the reality of all the dynamics that come into play in a successful marital relationship.

Again, using extremes to validate your point of view. You know, it is possible to BOTH marry for love and marry someone who is compatible with you in terms of religious belief, values, goals, interests, etc... One does not exclude the other.

[Ronnie]

I've written about this before so I won't belabor the point.  But it seems that a large number of RW comments indicate they want that her future husband is already successful and only then will she waltz in and help him spend the fruits of his efforts. 

With only a few notable exceptions, RW don't wish to participate in her husband's plowing, planting, weeding, watering and otherwise tending the crops, they want to only be there for the harvest.  Therefore, older men seem to be more of interest to them than in other cultures.

[goforit]

Again, using extremes to validate your point of view.

The only extreme so far posted in this thread was by you, when you insisted, and apparently still believe, that a RW said in this thread that RW only marry for the money, even though you have not provided any such statement, and the RW in question have repeatedly said otherwise.

You know, it is possible to BOTH marry for love and marry someone who is compatible with you in terms of religious belief, values, goals, interests, etc... One does not exclude the other.

True but that is not what you said without any qualification:

It is typical IMHO when both men and women marry for love

A wise man or woman will marry for love and........(fill in the blank) whatever it is that is foundationally important to them in a relationship.

So lets read your statement again:

You know, it is possible to BOTH marry for love and marry someone who is compatible with you in terms of.........financial stability and goals... One does not exclude the other.

Agree, wholeheartedly

[goforit]

 In the 4+ years I've been on this forum I find it interesting how so many people place such high importance on money.  There are folks on this board that talk about how rich they are, how sophisticated they are, how many opportunities they can take advantage of and how much better there life is then others.

 Is anyone here truly happy?

  I have my health, food in the pantry, a roof over my head, a good secure recession proof job and I can afford to travel to foreign lands several times a year and almost no debt and money in the bank.  I enjoy my job (most of the time) where I can make a difference in my little part of this earth and most importantly I can look at myself in the mirror every morning without any problems. I am content with who I am, how many people can say the same?

    The good thing about not being rich is that I know the few people I call friends like me for who I am and not my money.  For those who find true love that lasts-well there is no price you can put on that.

  

No debt, the ability to travel to foreign lands several times a year, a secure job, food and health. Whatever your job or income, you are rich by any legitimate measure of that word compared to the rest of the world. You might not be wealthy in terms of stupid money, but that certainly is a wealthy lifestyle.

[Misha]

The only extreme so far posted in this thread was by you, when you insisted, and apparently still believe, that a RW said in this thread that RW only marry for the money, even though you have not provided any such statement, and the RW in question have repeatedly said otherwise.

Let's see, at least three other Russian women have sided with my interpretation, and you are still harping on me?  

A wise man or woman will marry for love and........(fill in the blank) whatever it is that is foundationally important to them in a relationship.

As I said, I have no objections to men and women marrying who believe that money is "foundationally" important to them  :usdeyes: Yes, I agree that there should be compatibility when it comes to money as well. A woman who wants a man who will spend unconditionally, should definitely seek a man willing and capable of spending to her liking  I wouldn't be that guy, but I have a right to my opinion as well.

It is interesting why this has riled you so much. It seems to have touched a nerve  :evil: So, are you actually married?

[Daveman]

I've written about this before so I won't belabor the point.  But it seems that a large number of RW comments indicate they want that her future husband is already successful and only then will she waltz in and help him spend the fruits of his efforts. 

With only a few notable exceptions, RW don't wish to participate in her husband's plowing, planting, weeding, watering and otherwise tending the crops, they want to only be there for the harvest.  Therefore, older men seem to be more of interest to them than in other cultures.

Yep. That is exactly my take on it as well.  That is true with many women from anywhere, but I think there is a difference in the general (note 'general', as in generality, enough to be significant but certainly not all) mentality of everyday Russian ladies as opposed to Russian ladies specifically searching for a foreign man.  I could be mistaken there, but I don't think so.  

My personal opinion is that the ladies who seek the money are really nothing more than upscale, long term hookers -- the job will be over when/if the money runs low and she'll be off to the next john.  

I can't fault anyone who wants a stable life along with some good things in life... but if love and her man's love/soul/character is not her richest treasure then she's absolutely not my type.  I guess I need to find a good Russian hippie chick.  

[goforit]

Why then did I find exactly the same as Misha?

Then you have a quote showing that Zhena said that all RW are in this only for the money? Perhaps you would be so kind as to produce it, since Misha's attempts didn't meet with success. If you do I'm all eyes. Otherwise if you see the same thing Misha is seeing then it is because you are making the same mistake Misha made, reading into the quote what you want to see, rather than listening to what the OP is actually saying.

The thesis goes something like this - if a woman has a choice, then she will choose a nice guy of modest means over a rich abuser,

Then you have answered and refuted yourself, since by choosing a man of modest means, she clearly isn't into it just for the money.

but if they both have nice disposition, then the subj. woman will choose the richer one.

Let's see if we can try and understand this in its best sense, which is the way you should take someone who is saying something you think is controversial, rather than continue to fall prey to the western "literalism" that seems to have gripped some in this thread. All things being equal, if she finds both men equally attractive and equally competent, and has no particular preference of one over the other but enjoys the company of and is reasonably happy in the company of both men, she will choose the man who has enjoyed greater financial success (assuming they are not both financially wealthy). Hmmm...I think that would be true of almost all woman, Russian or otherwise. Now she might draw straws wearing a blindfold, but I think it is highly unlikely.

Now having said that, rarely if ever are all things equal. Money might be a legitimate reason to chose one man over another, then again it might not be. All depends on the situation.

It looks so absurd and insulting to a majority of women, that I do not like even to enter into an argument.

Only because in the looking you are seeing something that is not there.