Kharkiv (Jan - Feb 09) - My experience so far

[CCowboy]

Hi Gator,

I also went to Dnepro in 2006 and worked with Cindy Agency.  I had extensive correspondence with 3 women prior to my arrival, all 40+.  I met the first one the day after my arrival and the one whose letters indicated she was the most interested.  She asked many questions that I had already answered in my letters.  As the evening went on, I began to feel this woman knew very little about me at all.  The next day I received the news from Cindy Agency: "I'm sorry but "N" thanks you for your wonderful evening and wishes you an enjoyable stay in Dnepropetrovsk"  I later learned that she had been with other agencies up to 4 years previously, and with the same photos as posted on Cindy Agency.  Recently I saw her on Russian Free Personals, with the same photos...now at least 7 years old.  

So, after nearly 2 months of corresponding and one dinner at a nice restaurant with translator, POOF!!!  I met the next woman, 41.  Although I was honest in my letters that I did not want to have a common child, she insisted that she did not want to marry a man who did not want to have a child.  She's still on the CA site.  The last women I met through CA was a similar result, and she's also still on CA.  I met one other woman through another agency who was also on CA and who I had received a "letter of interest" from CA.  She denied it.  She had also been with several agencies going back 4 years.  When I went to a 3rd agency, I was asked what women I had met.  When I described this last meeting and without naming her and merely said this woman was looking for a man who could send her son to a fine university, she pulled up the woman's profile.  That was when I decided I'd had enough with agencies.

I had another friend who had similar results with CA.  The main woman he met was 43 and he was 59.  One meeting "POOF".  He also received letters that indicated she was very interested.  She had also been on other agencies for several years.  None of these women were DDG photo models but just attractive women with nice figures.  Anyway, my experience with CA was negative and I have suspicions regarding their letter writing policies, but only suspicions based on my and my friends experience.  Ironically when I made a post about my experience with CA and without naming the woman, I received a PM from a member who asked if she was ID #XXX.  One and the same and he had the same experience.  Thanks for your suggestions, CC      

[facetrock]

I had a profile at Cindy Agency for about a year, might even still be there. I think by now I have recieved a letter from every woman in the agency twice:))

[Faux Pas]

hummmm....I lost a post somewhere

FP, I understand the reasoning of CC, and that he expected a lot more from the trip than what he got out of it.
However if you want to be sure that you will meet at least one woman that could be a good partner on your trip, going there on a blind ad campaign is not the thing to do.
CC could vastly improve his chances if he would try to communicate with women before making his trip, that would also take out any uncertainty about the ad selection process.

I completely agree.

Right now he comes across as a guy who feels that if he spends $2000 on buying a ticket and going to Ukraine the women should all fight for the chance of being his wife.

I disagree. I didn't see him as coming off as the "second coming" or believing they should be fighting to be his wife. I read it as a man who felt his trip was a failure and due partially (not wholly) to some purchased services he trusted. He didn't make any reference at all to MOB and he wasn't emphasizing the money he spent. CC took a hammering and it appears it is due mostly because he short-changed Mila from what she billed him. He did some things different from what you or I may have done but, he did some things right too. Did he owe her exactly what she billed? The only ones that know that are CC and Mila. Personally, I don't see either of them as wrong from the info we have.

I am pretty sure that it is not the correct picture, as most people are not as they seem once they get pushed in to a box and labeled.
He might just have used the wrong strategy and expected more of it, and part of his disappointment is in mistakes Mila made.

I say the pounding CC has taken here is unwarranted. It appears to me his expectations were high and unreasonable. It also seems to me Mila sold him a bill of goods that she couldn't deliver. CC is a longtime member of RWD and has been looking since 94 (that should indicate to him to try something different) but I haven't seen any reference to MOB, wife shopping or anything derogatory. In fact quite the opposite, seems to take a gentlemanly and almost too business like approach. IMO

[groovlstk]

Anyway, my experience with CA was negative and I have suspicions regarding their letter writing policies, but only suspicions based on my and my friends experience.  Ironically when I made a post about my experience with CA and without naming the woman, I received a PM from a member who asked if she was ID #XXX.  One and the same and he had the same experience.  Thanks for your suggestions, CC      

CA staff are definitely up to shenanigans w/emails. That said, in other regards they are upfront and the women are real. Given the rampant dishonesty in this business, that puts them in the upper tier.

[GoodOlBoy]

What I have learned is that it's best not to make trip reports, especially if it has negative comments regarding a member.....      

Bingo......you have learned something.

CC....You, Az1 and AV8OR1 came back and posted TR's, that in my opinion read as "bashing" posts.

Not Trip Reports.

A good TR is just what Gator posted up-thread (with pictures ).

Even if I am BANNED from this forum, I hope there are others who will step forward and challenge the voracity of anybody who comes on RWD and starts an unsubstantiated "bashing" campaign on one of our members/agencies/translators.


GOB

[Ooooops]

Is it really common in Russia/Ukraine for interpreters to show up for work with the members of their families (husband in Mila's case)? 

[CCowboy]

I admit I walk a fine line between reality and fantasy.  But isn't part of this adventure to fulfill a fantasy, in a realistic way?  I can personally name several people who are involved with or married to a RW who shouldn't be, if age difference was the criteria.  Nearly all of the women I've met are 40+.  I generally avoid women under 40 because usually there is a school-aged child involved or a woman wants to have a child.  For a man of 64, I think that's not unreasonable to feel this way.  I seek a woman who is finished having children.  Seeking a woman in her late 40's to early 50's willing to marry me is much easier but in other ways, much more difficult to find.  If she has no knowledge of English, it's unlikely she's going to learn anything more than very basic English.  There are other issues the older a woman is and I'm just trying to minimize those issues.  

In the past, I have met women in their early 40's who seemed to be seriously interested in me. and a few times things became serious enough that marriage was being discussed.  My preference is not women younger than 40.  Natasha was an exception and although there are a couple of issues that need to be resolved on both ends, I felt the potential is there and so did Natasha.  We became very close during my visit and when she went back home to take care of some personal business, there were daily phone calls....3 times on Saturday, Sunday, and twice on Monday just before I left.  So far there has been nothing but silence although she is able to contact me and I have contacted friends of her's.  It is as though she disappeared.  

For a woman who I met with or usually called nearly daily during my stay, this is very uncharacteristic of her.  For a woman who had no problem saying those 3 little words to me on several occasions, this is very strange.  I can logically say that the age difference was too great anyway, and things probably wouldn't have worked out.  Again, unanswered questions that I hope to have answers to in the next few days.  CC        

[Admin]

Bingo......you have learned something.

CC....You, Az1 and AV8OR1 came back and posted TR's, that in my opinion read as "bashing" posts.

Not Trip Reports.

A good TR is just what Gator posted up-thread (with pictures ).

Even if I am BANNED from this forum, I hope there are others who will step forward and challenge the voracity of anybody who comes on RWD and starts an unsubstantiated "bashing" campaign on one of our members/agencies/translators.


GOB

GOB,

Got a STRONG suggestion for you. Rather than come across as the TR police - how about you make the effort to sink the sarcasm, and work to help guide people along in a productive and friendly manner?

Unless there is a clear agenda by someone to cause problems for others, it is presumptuous to suggest that CC came on for the purpose of bashing anyone. Why do you NOT give him the benefit of the doubt, and instead presume he is merely relaying his first-hand experiences to provide information and help to others?

RWD needs people who are willing to share their experiences whether positive or negative. Responses, like Mila's, to complaints are very indicative of the quality of the service provider - and I must say that Mila acquitted herself quite well, IMO.

All of that is quite OK, and a service to the RWD community.

- Dan

[CCowboy]

GOB,

So you believe that a TR should be only about everything that was positive and anything negative should be swept under the rug?  Everything is like Disney World and the good ship Lollipop?  Yes, I'm showing my age.  Suppose Mila came on and said that my report was accurate and that she made many mistakes.  Would you still feel the same regarding the substance of a TR?  I don't expect her to do it and I'm well able to handle the heat.  Mila has already written to me stating that she did many things wrong and she was sorry.  Unfortunately, by the time I read it, I had already posted and the avalanche had begun.  I'm not going to post it because I feel if Mila wants to say anything further, that is her decision, not mine.  CC

    

[Ooooops]

Responses, like Mila's, to complaints are very indicative of the quality of the service provider - and I must say that Mila acquitted herself quite well, IMO.

Dan, are you referring to Mila's post about "I'll tell if you don't shut up!" or did I miss something? 

[Faux Pas]

I admit I walk a fine line between reality and fantasy.  But isn't part of this adventure to fulfill a fantasy, in a realistic way?  I can personally name several people who are involved with or married to a RW who shouldn't be, if age difference was the criteria.  Nearly all of the women I've met are 40+.  I generally avoid women under 40 because usually there is a school-aged child involved or a woman wants to have a child.  For a man of 64, I think that's not unreasonable to feel this way.  I seek a woman who is finished having children.  Seeking a woman in her late 40's to early 50's willing to marry me is much easier but in other ways, much more difficult to find.  If she has no knowledge of English, it's unlikely she's going to learn anything more than very basic English.  There are other issues the older a woman is and I'm just trying to minimize those issues.  
       

CC you would be the only one to answer that about fulfilling the fantasy. I am a strong believer that the heart wants what the heart wants. A good rule of thumb is to date in the same age/class of woman in FSU as you would in the US. Sure everyone would love to have a  young smokinghotkova but seriously, how realistic is this for you? Looking at her and living with her isn't the same thing. I'm not trying to bust your chops here CC. I don't know what kind of women you date at home. Certainly many look for a trade-up. Many times the problem with this is that the women look to trade up too.

You seem like a nice guy and someone that deserves what he seeks. I have some question as to your methods but, to each his own. I really wish you good luck and hope you continue to seek.

[GoodOlBoy]

GOB,
So you believe that a TR should be only about everything that was positive and anything negative should be swept under the rug?     

No Sir.

It should be as accurate as possible without the "trivial sniveling" about spoons, plates and $5. apartment overage cost's.

Did you ever stop to think that Mila didn't take your silverware or plates, it was probably the last jackas* that stayed in that room!  :evil:

Whoever he was, he is probably sitting at home right now eating his lunch with those same utensils and plates.

Look CC, you come across in your TR report as blaming Mila for all of your miseries and troubles.

You need to take a long hard look in the mirror.


GOB



BTW....Dan, I am NOT calling anybody here on RWD a Jackas* (unless someone here stole the silverware and plates from CC's room). :evil:

[Admin]

Dan, are you referring to Mila's post about "I'll tell if you don't shut up!" or did I miss something? 

I am referring to this post -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9474.msg185321#msg185321.

I did, just now, see Mila's earlier post - and while I do not condone her threat, the fact remains that she did not act on it, and after thinking about things, she posted what I linked above.

I think all sides became 'heated' and probably went overboard with comments they would like to have back.

Let's hope everyone can move forward productively.

- Dan

[Ooooops]

I am referring to this post -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9474.msg185321#msg185321.

I did, just now, see Mila's earlier post - and while I do not condone her threat, the fact remains that she did not act on it, and after thinking about things, she posted what I linked above.

It's good that Mila came to her senses but still, the first post with threats was very unprofessional...    And even in the second post she shouldn't have use the real names anyway, if people prefer to write under the nick-names here...   I'm looking from the outsider's position, nothing personal.   

[CCowboy]

GOB, yes I did make a comment that some kitchen items were sparse, and I said it was an irritant at best.  And I never accused Mila of taking anything but I suppose that's your sarcasm.  Usually an apartment owner is nearby and I just requested a few items from Mila, 2 large plates and a large microwaveable bowl, nothing more and not for her to go out and buy them.  I didn't appreciate Mila's comment that American's are fat because they eat off large plates as the reason there are only small plates.  The $5/day was never part of my comments, that was AZ1.  Keep your facts straight.

You seem to want to keep this thread going despite Dan telling you to cool it.  I'm ready to let this whole matter fade away.  There is nothing more that can be said and any further comments are going to be a waste of words.  But if you want to continue making your snide comments about things you know nothing about, I've got more ammo.  Remember, only Mila and I actually know what took place during my visit.  Only Mila and AZ1 actually knows what went on during his trip.  I'm sure Mila appreciates her knight in shining armour coming to her rescue. CC

 

[Daveman]

Wow. You sure cut me with that one.

At this point I have learned there are much different types of Men who are involved in this process.
This is also one of the main reasons there are so many arguments on these forums.

We all know the different categories.

I have also seen so outrageous opinions to your story.

I will make this very simple.

You placed an ad. No matter who wrote it this was an ad about you.

You are 64. You were looking for Women with a larger then normal age gap. This already makes your search much harder then most.
However no matter who wrote the ad, the ad was about you. A description about you.

There is a certain type of lady you are looking for. You have said many times the age (stretching 20 to 25 years younger then you are). You have mentioned weight and the lady must be thin. You have mentioned she must be beautiful.

You described the Women you are looking for.
I said from the beginning what happened in your case was the type of Women you were looking for were not attracted to your ad.
They were not interested in the product advertised. That product was you.

You also clearly knew the Women you were looking to meet would not be interested. This is why you wanted to hold back information in the ad such as age. I believe you thought you could later win these ladies over.

I never once put you down for your standards. Every person has the right to choose who they want to be with. Even if what we want to be with is far from our league.

What I always said was I felt it was wrong to put blame on Mila because you did not meet the type of ladies you wanted from the ad.

I have read your post. What I read was not one Lady who actually answered your ad fit the requirements you were looking for.
Mila contacted other ladies for you to meet outside of the ad.
This is the point I was saying all along.
If you had written that you did meet several ladies you were hoping to meet then I would have agreed with you that you should not have met the lady with child etc...

My point is this. It has been this point the whole time.
You were the product of the ad. That product did not attract the Women you were hoping to meet.

If the product had been a younger Man. More attractive Man etc... Then the Women (thin, Attractive etc...)you were hoping to meet maybe would have answered.

There is one simple fact about life. 99% of couples you see match each other. There is very very rare cases in which the opposite occurs.
Attractive Women date and Marry Attractive Men. Average Women date and Marry Average Men. Unattractive Women date and marry Unattractive Men.

My whole point with you was I do not feel it was Mila's fault you did not have the Women you had hoped for answer your ad.

If we take away the ladies who answered the ad who you were unhappy about meeting you would have met no one from the ad.
Not one time did you mention one lady you met from the ad who met your requirements.

CC. Mila cannot make the type of Woman you are looking for answer the ad. Your expectations were way too high for you in who you hoped to meet. I am not saying to give up on what you want. It could happen. But I said over and over it is no one else's fault if you do not find this lady other then your own. You are who you are. If the Woman are not interested in who you are how can this be anyone else's fault?

If Mila had not set the meetings up with the ladies she did. You would have met no one. She also contacted other ladies outside the ad so you had someone to meet. My personally feelings to that is she tried. She tried to at least make sure your trip was not ruined. This is how I personally feel about what she did.
You see it another way. You see it as if she wasted your time and this you and I will always have a difference of opinions on.
Like I said. Had she not done what she did, you would have not met one lady on your trip. What type of trip report would we have read then?

This is what I was trying to say to you all along. What you want appears to not have wanted you from the ad. To have gotten the responses you had hoped for then alot of dishonest information would have been put in the ad as to who you are. Is that fair to ladies to do as well?

If you can tell me that you did meet several ladies that you were HOPING to meet. I will gladly apologize to you and agree 100% the other meetings should never have happened.
At the present I have not read of you meeting one lady from the ad you wished to have responded.

Also I will ad. You mentioned ladies being asked questions that answered the ad such as height, weight, etc...
As any Man knows one of the worst things you could ever ask a Women is her weight.

Had one of the ladies you hoped to have met did respond to the ad. I feel many would have found these questions insulting and possibly turned off. Ask the ladies on this forum how they would have felt being asked these questions. I think you will see many would agree to being insulted.

I will leave one thought in your mind.
How many ladies would you have met had Mila screened as you had asked, and also had Mila not contacted other ladies outside the ad?

the answer would be ZERO.

What that tells you is if you are hoping to meet many ladies. You need to bring the expectations down.
Meeting a thin beautiful Women with no dependant children who is 38 to 48 (as advertised) when you are 64 is going to be one very difficult, if not impossible task.

I do not think Mila deserved the blame for that not happening. This is what I was defending for her.
If anything Mila did wrong it was taking you as a client. I do not mean that in a bad way. I mean that in a way your expectations were too high and almost impossible for anyone to have met. No matter what this was a disaster waiting to happen. Had she not set you up to meet the ladies you did we would have heard different complaint where you paid and she introducted you to no one.
If the ad had been written differently (which seems to be something you are upset about) to get better results that ad would have been misleading or dishonest to have done so. That also get no one anywhere.

Ravens,
This is a well thought out and accurate post. I agree with exactly what you wrote there.  I would agree that his ad campaign would have resulted in ZERO matches within his criteria, and that he would have met no one without some kind of back-up plan.

Here's the thing, from my POV, I still think most everyone is missing some significant points here and Mila can learn from them, as well as potential clients who will engage professional services in the future.

First it's absolutely NOT Mila's responsibility to go on a sweep to find women for CCowboy to meet in an effort to salvage his trip.  As a professional, rather than go on a woman round up, even if her intentions were completely good and well meaning, her responsibility is to say - "There have been zero responses to your ad from women within your criteria, how do you wish to proceed? Do you have a back up plan? Now would be a good time to implement it because your ad didn't have the result you wanted.  Would you like to meet other ladies? or? "


That's the professional approach.  It's the client's decision to make, prior to meeting any women who do not fit the criteria, not discovering at the meeting itself that this woman doesn't fit.  Now, that being said, after the *first* meeting with a woman who did not meet the criteria, it became CCowboy's responsibility to take control of the situation -- "hey Mila, this woman isn't close to what I am looking for, I do not want to meet any ladies who are not in the target range.." 

Regardless of what you guys think (or me for that matter) of running an ad without listing an age, according to the narrative, that's exactly what the provider agreed to do.  It is NOT in any way justifiable to change the conditions of the agreement after the fact without consulting with the client. Period.  "Hey, I'm just not comfortable running this ad without your age, I know I agreed to do it, but really, I'm just not comfortable with that parameter so I cannot do it. Would you like to continue wiuth your age listed in the ad?" -- bang, the responsibility is back to the client, exactly where it should be.

Another aspect, when the service provider said "I know what I am doing, don't worry about it" -- at that point, she took full responsibility upon herself, which she absolutely should NOT have done.  The client should have previewed the ad, approved the ad, etc, etc as it is ultimately his trip, his money, his deal.  His mistake was in not insisting on being in control of every aspect of his own trip. So that's a toss up of responsibility, IMO.   

As I have said before, no one coming here to express an opinion of a service provider should be crucified without just cause (and there is none here). 

There's are a few good lessons here for everyone on both sides of the coin - the service providers as well as the clients. 

[groovlstk]

If nothing else, these threads illustrate the huge gap in expectations between FSU people working in the industry and Westerners. Not to make light of anyone's complaints, but if you're just starting out you should know that it's not reasonable to expect the same level of customer service that you have (or once had, since most service jobs today seem populated by bored, sullen teens) in the West.

I also think it's easy for a lot of guys to expect x,y, & z on a silver platter because they're travelling to an impoverished country and have an unstated expectation that everyone should genuflect every time they open their wallets. Big mistake.

FYI, there are some tour guides and interpreters who refuse to work with "bride seekers" after a few disastrous experiences. This didn't happen overnight and always remember that while you may consider yourself normal and polite those who came before you may not have been.

[Daveman]

It's good that Mila came to her senses but still, the first post with threats was very unprofessional...    And even in the second post she shouldn't have use the real names anyway, if people prefer to write under the nick-names here...   I'm looking from the outsider's position, nothing personal.   

Bingo! Yahtzee! She hit's a Homa... anudda Homa!

That is exactly what we ALL should be doing in situations like these.

[Daveman]

And the moral of the story is:  

If you want something done to your satisfication you do it yourself.

yes indeed... probable sarcasm notwithstanding.... that's the moral of this entire process I think.  Take the reins, handle it, do it, git R dun -- yourself.

[GQBlues]

What ever happened to the good ol' fashioned service provider / client relations? I always thought that if there ever is a problem between entities, it is dealt with directly and personally to enable the parties to resolve the issue/s civilly. If service/s was/were not tendered, or compensation not properly made, whether by misunderstanding or mishandling, it was always a foregone conclusion that an effort need to be made to find an equitable solution to avert unnecessary frustration and/or undeserved malice in the future.

There were obvious periods of dissatisfaction either from both sides, or one or the other, when these issues we transpiring ~ why were they not dealt at those very moment and collectively seek an equitable solution?

From CC and Av1's POV, had I used Mila's services and there were things she's doing, or not doing, that was/were unsatisfactory or I do not find acceptable ~ resolve it there and there. From Mila's POV, since you're the service provider, you should be more than acutely aware, at all times, as to whether or not your client/s is/are receiving what they expected to receive, or understood to receive, from you. Inquire, often if necessary, if not expressed.

When it had to get to this point and allowed to fester ~ it does both parties a great disservice in more ways than one when it opens up for public consumption. Everyone loses.

[Gator]

CC,

I am not here to blame you or Mila for what happened. Usually when a problem occurs, both parties are culpable, although not equally.  Both parties should resolve the matter as GQBlues wrote above.

So why am I here?  To offer some advice for making your next trip successful, and I hope there is another trip for you.

What you described as your experience with Cindy Agency could have happened.  Does this make them dishonest?  No.  In comparison with other agencies they are in the top tier, exactly as groovlstk proclaimed.  

Most of the women at CA are real.  The letters are written by translators usually after a phone conversation with the woman.  The introductory letter is a mass mailing.  Few UW come to the CA office to look at photos of men who wrote them.  In fact, they do not get interested until the man is in Dnepropetrovsk and the first meeting.  Then they go from there.   

Knowing this, you can use CA as a resource to meet quality women interested in marriage.  How?  Do not get involved in long letter writing campaigns.  Do not develop a fantasy until after 2-3 meetings (not 2-3 letters).

What to do?  Write 2-3 letters to many women.  Confirm that they are still available.  Then go to Dnepro and meet them.  Meet many of them.  While there, go through the catalog and select other women to meet.  

You will strike out a lot in this game.  So go to bat as much as you can.  That special woman for you is out there, somewhere.

Good luck.

Reading this account, I am so happy that I am marrried and do not have to search any more.  It is not easy.  Fun, yes; easy, not if you are serious.

[GoodOlBoy]

There were obvious periods of dissatisfaction either from both sides, or one or the other, when these issues we transpiring ~ why were they not dealt at those very moment and collectively seek an equitable solution?

I agree GQBlues.

Instead we have 2 "grown" men crying and sniveling on RWD and yet the Woman (Mila) who was "stiffed" by these 2 men, remains silent?

Look...as soon as these 2 "gentlemen" left the Ukraine, Mila could have come running to RWD and posted something here about how she got "screwed over".

BUT, she didn't do it.......they did.

Does this say something about somebody's character?


GOB

[Doll]

Doll,

I expect you to say my approach was like shopping.  It is except for one major difference, price is not discussed.  Why?  RW are priceless.   

Most AM's approach is like shopping. I mean looking in the FSU- to get good stuff for cheap.

[JR]

Ravens,
This is a well thought out and accurate post. I agree with exactly what you wrote there.  I would agree that his ad campaign would have resulted in ZERO matches within his criteria, and that he would have met no one without some kind of back-up plan.

Here's the thing, from my POV, I still think most everyone is missing some significant points here and Mila can learn from them, as well as potential clients who will engage professional services in the future.

First it's absolutely NOT Mila's responsibility to go on a sweep to find women for CCowboy to meet in an effort to salvage his trip.  As a professional, rather than go on a woman round up, even if her intentions were completely good and well meaning, her responsibility is to say - "There have been zero responses to your ad from women within your criteria, how do you wish to proceed? Do you have a back up plan? Now would be a good time to implement it because your ad didn't have the result you wanted.  Would you like to meet other ladies? or? "


That's the professional approach.  It's the client's decision to make, prior to meeting any women who do not fit the criteria, not discovering at the meeting itself that this woman doesn't fit.  Now, that being said, after the *first* meeting with a woman who did not meet the criteria, it became CCowboy's responsibility to take control of the situation -- "hey Mila, this woman isn't close to what I am looking for, I do not want to meet any ladies who are not in the target range.." 

Regardless of what you guys think (or me for that matter) of running an ad without listing an age, according to the narrative, that's exactly what the provider agreed to do.  It is NOT in any way justifiable to change the conditions of the agreement after the fact without consulting with the client. Period.  "Hey, I'm just not comfortable running this ad without your age, I know I agreed to do it, but really, I'm just not comfortable with that parameter so I cannot do it. Would you like to continue wiuth your age listed in the ad?" -- bang, the responsibility is back to the client, exactly where it should be.

Another aspect, when the service provider said "I know what I am doing, don't worry about it" -- at that point, she took full responsibility upon herself, which she absolutely should NOT have done.  The client should have previewed the ad, approved the ad, etc, etc as it is ultimately his trip, his money, his deal.  His mistake was in not insisting on being in control of every aspect of his own trip. So that's a toss up of responsibility, IMO.   

As I have said before, no one coming here to express an opinion of a service provider should be crucified without just cause (and there is none here). 

There's are a few good lessons here for everyone on both sides of the coin - the service providers as well as the clients. 

Damn....I'm so glad you said this. Now I don't have to write a thing Dave, you hit it on the head and pounded that sucker all the way in!

[JR]

Most AM's approach is like shopping. I mean looking in the FSU- to get good stuff for cheap.

Don't you like to shop Doll? I don't, I hate shopping! And after 10 plus years of marriage then divorce to a RW I can tell you with confidence that was absolutey NOTHING cheap about it.