Kharkiv (Jan - Feb 09) - My experience so far

[Admin]

I was not thinking of "let it be a couple of years and then we'll see" like some men think when they marry 20-25 years younger girls. God bless them.
 

Doll - as a point of clarification, and since you specifically mention "men think when they marry 20-25 years younger girls" - is it your belief (feeling) this is common or uncommon? Does you use of the term "some" imply only a few - or many?

- Dan

[Admin]

I can honestly say that I'm already slowing down and I'm only 45.    Person can be a very active 60 y.o. but he still is 60 y.o.  with all downfall of that age.   

Without denying the inevitable - what, exactly, is it that you expect to be "slowing down" in 15 years at age 60?

- Dan

[Admin]

More

You wrote little - so to add context, you are stating your belief that age is a more important consideration to a successful marriage than income - more important than religion - and more important than children. Please confirm.

Also, Dan, make sure I am equipped with the facts and details regarding "age is not important", ok?I also want to know why you are advocating your position.

You will note Doll, that to this point, I am NOT advocating a position. I am merely asking questions.

As I wrote earlier, I am far from bought-in to the direction of my questions. I am sincerely interested in seeking input and understanding - and from that, I will possibly crystalize my position on the matter. For now, however, I am still asking questions and trying to understand. Will you help me to understand YOUR position/feelings?

- Dan

[Daveman]

Daveman, in previous posts I have never heard you "brag" about your "sexual prowess" (satisfying 20 yo's) in the bedroom before !  :evil:

Care to elaborate? 

Details?


GOB

 

Well, er, that wasn't exactly the thrust intended... but I did mention my amazing salacious attributes once here:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9255.msg180127#msg180127

... let me tell you, I never leave a woman without a smile on her face!  :evil:  :evil:

[Shadow]

Without denying the inevitable - what, exactly, is it that you expect to be "slowing down" in 15 years at age 60?

- Dan

I can answer that, having seen the aging process at work.
While people (it is not limited to men) often do not notice it at first, their metabolism changes, their speed of reaction changes and their general behavior changes.
Then one day they wake up and realise that they can not do what they could 5, 10 or 20 years ago.
The realistic people understand this and adapt their lifestyle to it. Others need until they meet a doctor who tells them to cool down.

[Ooooops]

Ooooops - I am a little surprised to hear you say that ...

I thought that we were talking about Western Men.   

[Admin]

I thought that we were talking about Western Men.   

My question had to do with, (a) being attracted to someone on the basis of their physical features, and (b) being unaware of their specific age at the time of initial attraction. I was not intending to limit it to men or women, American or Russian or Asian (or Martian).

In a natural setting, where a person simply meets people along the way - is there ever some attraction to another person in which age is not the first thing that occurs?

- Dan

[Faux Pas]

My question had to do with, (a) being attracted to someone on the basis of their physical features, and (b) being unaware of their specific age at the time of initial attraction. I was not intending to limit it to men or women, American or Russian or Asian (or Martian).

In a natural setting, where a person simply meets people along the way - is there ever some attraction to another person in which age is not the first thing that occurs?

- Dan

If you don't mind I'll field that one. I say a resounding yes. For me personally it is/was all the time, every time. But even if it does not come up in conversation initially it will surface sooner or later in acts, wants or needs. Eventually it all came down to age if she was much younger than myself. I found the younger the woman, the more irritable I became as time wore on and the less I saw a relationship working. This happened on quite a few occasions. For me personally it almost always came back to age even if it wasn't a factor earlier on. This is all relationships with AW FWIW

[Ooooops]

My question had to do with, (a) being attracted to someone on the basis of their physical features, and (b) being unaware of their specific age at the time of initial attraction.

a) Physical features are important to some and not that important to others... 

b) how can you not see the difference between 40 and 60 yo?   

[Admin]

If you don't mind I'll field that one. I say a resounding yes. For me personally it is/was all the time, every time. But even if it does not come up in conversation initially it will surface sooner or later in acts, wants or needs. Eventually it all came down to age if she was much younger than myself. I found the younger the woman, the more irritable I became as time wore on and the less I saw a relationship working. This happened on quite a few occasions. For me personally it almost always came back to age even if it wasn't a factor earlier on. This is all relationships with AW FWIW

>>it [age] will surface sooner or later in acts, wants or needs. Eventually it all came down to age if she was much younger than myself. I found the younger the woman, the more irritable I became as time wore on and the less I saw a relationship working. This happened on quite a few occasions. For me personally it almost always came back to age even if it wasn't a factor earlier on.<<

You say it came down to age - but what I read into your comments is more based on experience and how that experience is manifest in behaviors. Yes, a likely correlation to age, but NOT a direct nexus. If correct, this is an important distinction - I think.

- Dan

[Admin]

a) Physical features are important to some and not that important to others... 

True - but in YOUR example now, you are talking about individual preference. Quite different from the sorts of broad-brush universals being thrown about upthread.

b) how can you not see the difference between 40 and 60 yo?   

What, exactly, are those differences you see?

- Dan

[Daveman]

>>it [age] will surface sooner or later in acts, wants or needs. Eventually it all came down to age if she was much younger than myself. I found the younger the woman, the more irritable I became as time wore on and the less I saw a relationship working. This happened on quite a few occasions. For me personally it almost always came back to age even if it wasn't a factor earlier on.<<

You say it came down to age - but what I read into your comments is more based on experience and how that experience is manifest in behaviors. Yes, a likely correlation to age, but NOT a direct nexus. If correct, this is an important distinction - I think.

- Dan

Indeed it is an important distinction.  Is it possible for the correlation to actually be separated in reality, as opposed to theory?.  Of course, in theory, it could be said, even debated successfully that indeed the direct nexus doesn't exist.  Experience though, at a point, does become gut instinct - a fusion beyond conscious thought.  So in practice, I think the line blurs to the point of losing practical distinction.  

[Ooooops]

What, exactly, are those differences you see?

Dan, are you really telling me that there is no difference between 40 yo person and 60 yo person?    And I'm not talking about the looks (although very few people manage to look 20 year younger their age  ).    It's the total package - experience, health, zest, etc.   Just think of somebody from  your parents generation and imagine them to be your life partner.   

[Admin]

Dan, are you really telling me that there is no difference between 40 yo person and 60 yo person?    And I'm not talking about the looks (although very few people manage to look 20 year younger their age  ).    It's the total package - experience, health, zest, etc.  Just thing of somebody of your parents generation and imagine them to be your life partner.   

>>Dan, are you really telling me that there is no difference between 40 yo person and 60 yo person?<<

Ooooops, as I wrote earlier, I am (sincerely!) not trying to tell you anything. I am probing questions so that I understand why this is such a hot button with others. I seek facts and details to substantiate what are very often (TOO often) raw emotional arguments. I want/need to reduce those to more specific, tangible, rational facts and details.

So tell me - what/which "experience" do you see as different? What specific health issues? How do you measure the "zest" differences? What else do you include in your "etc"? Do you consider these differences - whatever they are - to be universal?

- Dan

[Admin]

Indeed it is an important distinction.  Is it possible for the correlation to actually be separated in reality, as opposed to theory?.  Of course, in theory, it could be said, even debated successfully that indeed the direct nexus doesn't exist.  Experience though, at a point, does become gut instinct - a fusion beyond conscious thought.  So in practice, I think the line blurs to the point of losing practical distinction.  

Well . . . . . I am not so sure.

I wonder if what you are describing is not MORE associated with Pygmalion Principle. Once a person establishes their expectation, they will work, often subconsciously, to FIND things that support that expectation/belief. Reason being - once the belief/expectation is set - if a person happens to see something that might sway them away from that belief/expectation, they must first work to overcome the initial belief/expectation by (a) challenging it, then (b) discarding it, then (c) rationalizing why they held that belief/expectation in the first place, then (d) accept alternatives for new beliefs/expectations, and (e) only THEN (*if* they ever get that far) can someone really and truly be open to acceptance of a NEW belief/expectation.

Compounding the problem is that we are all immersed in more information than we can possibly absorb every hour of every day. We possess a cluster of brain cells whose job it is to filter out the unimportant - called the Reticular Activating System. The RAS works to insure we remain sane by filtering IN only those things that map to our existing beliefs/expectations or represent threats and dangers - and filtering OUT anything that might make us work (see items a through e above), AND, would (at least for a moment) render our 'sanity' (belief system) suspect.

- Dan

[Ooooops]

So tell me - what/which "experience" do you see as different? What specific health issues? How do you measure the "zest" differences? What else do you include in your "etc"?

I'm sure you know what I mean, so I don't see any reason to type too much.      Actually, when I see whose many page posts I wonder if those guys talk that much at home as well...   

Do you consider these differences - whatever they are - to be universal?

No, there are some lucky ones out there....   

[Admin]

I'm sure you know what I mean, so I don't see any reason to type too much.      Actually, when I see whose many page posts I wonder if those guys talk that much at home as well...   

No, there are some lucky ones out there....   

>>I'm sure you know what I mean<<

No, actually I don't know what you mean. I am not so disingenuous as to pose questions if the answers are self-evident. Neither am I one to presume the answers/opinions/beliefs of another. I think it best to inquire - as I have here. Unfortunately, and for reasons not entirely clear to me, there is reluctance to share.

I find that curious.

- Dan

[Ooooops]

I find that curious.

I'm not 60 yo yet.   So I can't tell you about the health issues that come with that age.   I can tell you that at 45 I feel and am much older that I was at 25.   Even at 35.   Thought process is different, metabolism is different, everything is different.   And if you say otherwise it means that you live in denial.   

[GoodOlBoy]

I'm not 60 yo yet. So I can't tell you about the health issues ....

Promise to come back to RWD in 15 years and tells us.  :evil:

OK Ooooops? 


GOB

[Daveman]

Well . . . . . I am not so sure.

Of course, neither  am I...

I wonder if what you are describing is not MORE associated with Pygmalion Principle. Once a person establishes their expectation, they will work, often subconsciously, to FIND things that support that expectation/belief. Reason being - once the belief/expectation is set - if a person happens to see something that might sway them away from that belief/expectation, they must first work to overcome the initial belief/expectation by (a) challenging it, then (b) discarding it, then (c) rationalizing why they held that belief/expectation in the first place, then (d) accept alternatives for new beliefs/expectations, and (e) only THEN (*if* they ever get that far) can someone really and truly be open to acceptance of a NEW belief/expectation.

I am familiar with the Pygmalion Principle more in the context of affecting and effecting the behavior of others, however the theoretical principles of the Principle are just as valid and applicable in the control of one's own thought process. The problem I have with this scenario is not in understanding the practical value in using a reflective theory formulation, but in something along the lines of -- (going on a different tangential line) most people are sheep living in reactionary states (thus the value of Pygmalion in steering others).  I think it takes a special kind of mind to, firstly, even be open enough comprehend the validity and usefulness of what you just posted, and secondly, to find within themselves the impetus for acting upon it.  And there is where theory varies from practicality - what they could do contrasted what they will do is mind boggling sometimes.  That last comment doesn't negate validity, but merely points a finger toward futility (and one of the reasons I moved away from the psychology field as a career many years ago - long boring story).

I agree with exactly what you said in theory and possibility.. what COULD be... but I just don't think more than a few would ever get it, much less use it... Maybe I'm just optimistically pessimistic in that regard.

So, does something still have intrinsic value if that value is never cashed in?  

Compounding the problem is that we are all immersed in more information than we can possibly absorb every hour of every day. We possess a cluster of brain cells whose job it is to filter out the unimportant - called the Reticular Activating System. The RAS works to insure we remain sane by filtering IN only those things that map to our existing beliefs/expectations or represent threats and dangers - and filtering OUT anything that might make us work (see items a through e above), AND, would (at least for a moment) render our 'sanity' (belief system) suspect.

- Dan

Well, yes, it's the reason we are primarily "deletion creatures". The RAS is the physical aspect of an emotional protection/avoidance system based on what can be thought of as "reactionary linked memory clusters" or the mapping sentinel.  And of course the "banks" of the RAS are programmable, and reprogrammable... relating to theories of NLP or NAC, but still, just a theory on paper unless actually utilized, i.e., actually reprogrammed.

But my question here is this.. how do we put information such as this into actual practice?  What's the trigger? the key?  


Yes, I understand I've traveled to the ancient city of Babble-On with this post..  but I do think this is absolutely related to gut instinct perceptions, or "gag reflex" if you will of the age factor.

[Gator]

Some idle thoughts about age, sex and life with a RW.

I do not know why women complain.  My God!  Women can have an orgasm in 50 different ways, with different body organs, with different toys, and they can have many more orgasms.   

The man has to do most of the effort.  And his equipment has to perform.  Believe me, a woman who did not want to be there because of age and how he looked would not help the equipment rise to the occasion.

A good marriage involves accommodations because none of us are perfect.  What one woman or man will accommodate may be impossible for the next.  Everyone is different.  We should respect individual choices even though you could never do it.

From a purely physical enjoyment viewpoint, I would rather make love to a 50-yo slender woman than to a 30-yo whose arse and thighs look like an open mixing tank at a cottage cheese factory.  In fact, the act may be impossible for me with the latter.  Plus the 50-yo would know everything better.

So if a woman would prefer an overweight younger man collapsing early on top of her in a pool of sweat rather than having a caring older man, that is her choice.  Actually, I guess most woman would decline both, and that is their choice.

A natural filtering process makes this all work out so that we end up with whom we are the happiest.  One person's filters may differ remarkably from the next person's such that the choice of spouse is starkly different.

[Admin]

But my question here is this.. how do we put information such as this into actual practice?  What's the trigger? the key?  

Pain of some sort. Often it is pain masquerading as profound sadness.

It is extraordinary for someone to make fundamental changes without profound pain as the stimulus.

- Dan

[Admin]

Some idle thoughts about age, sex and life with a RW.

I do not know why women complain.  My God!  Women can have an orgasm in 50 different ways, with different body organs, with different toys, and they can have many more orgasms.   

The man has to do most of the effort.  And his equipment has to perform.  Believe me, a woman who did not want to be there because of age and how he looked would not help the equipment rise to the occasion.

A good marriage involves accommodations because none of us are perfect.  What one woman or man will accommodate may be impossible for the next.  Everyone is different.  We should respect individual choices even though you could never do it.

From a purely physical enjoyment viewpoint, I would rather make love to a 50-yo slender woman than to a 30-yo whose arse and thighs look like an open mixing tank at a cottage cheese factory.  In fact, the act may be impossible for me with the latter.  Plus the 50-yo would know everything better.

So if a woman would prefer an overweight younger man collapsing early on top of her in a pool of sweat rather than having a caring older man, that is her choice.  Actually, I guess most woman would decline both, and that is their choice.

A natural filtering process makes this all work out so that we end up with whom we are the happiest.  One person's filters may differ remarkably from the next person's such that the choice of spouse is starkly different.

Excellent examples that help to describe one person's personal preference - while, at the same time, recognizing the individuality of those choices and not 'painting everyone with the same broad brush.'

Now why can't/don't Doll and Ooooops follow suit? Why the reluctance to share their answers to those questions? Is it timidity? Modesty perhaps? Would it possibly undermine their emotional argument if the logic (or lack thereof) were brought into the light of day? Why?

Curious minds (mine) want to know ???

- Dan

[facetrock]

  ooops.... I can still drink with the best, many years of building an immunity. I can talk and socialize til the cows come home. Dancing is another matter...Unless they start playing the Village People after a few to many beers.... I can still spell out YMCA with my arms...That is when people look at me and say....OH MY GOD HE IS FROM THE 70s

[Gator]

Dan, are you really telling me that there is no difference between 40 yo person and 60 yo person?    And I'm not talking about the looks (although very few people manage to look 20 year younger their age  ).    It's the total package - experience, health, zest, etc.   Just think of somebody from  your parents generation and imagine them to be your life partner.   

Some candid disclosures from an old guy in his 60s reading these RW accounts of how dreadful I am.

Looks - My wrinkles scare me, especially in the morning, so I can only imagine what a woman thinks.  While sitting around the beach and just chilling out, I have asked a few RW about plastic surgery.  I ask what would they change about themselves.  Then I asked what I should do.  Of about 5 options I discuss, most said that a facelift would be okay, but nothing else is needed.  I said it would cost $10k and wouldn't it be better to spend that money on something pretty for them.  They said,  "Yes, buy me please."  BTW, I prefer the glowing look of a 40 yo woman over the 30-yo, especially if they have that look of confidence and wisdom.

Experience - Actually, the 60 yo should have more experience.  However, if he led a boring life, what could they share with a younger person.  If he led an exciting life, one would think he could teach a lot to someone who wanted to learn.

Health - I am in excellent health (knock on wood).  I spent a pleasant day with a St. Piter RW about 25 years younger than me.  She liked me and compared me with a couple of other older men she dated who could not stay up with her.  Bottom line - she wanted to see me again and said such.  I had a good day with her, yet saw little likelihood of the two of us ever becoming a couple.  To be kind, I said' "Think about today.  I will call you.  I have some free time on Wednesday."  I called, wondering what I would have to say to not see her gain.  No problem.  She volunteered, "I do think we should see each other again.  The death of my husband was a psychological trauma to me.  After discussing you with my mama, I do not want to repeat that 10-20 years from now.  I need to stay with men my age."  Then blah, blah blah about how wonderful I am.

Zest - I can no longer do what I could in the past.  However, I have done a lot in the past, so even a decrepit me is still active.  A note to my son when I was in the awkward process of breaking up with a RW ex-fiancee:  "She complained today about me climbing the 450 steps to the top of the Duomo church dome in Florence (only 335 feet high).   I said she should go back to the hotel or go shopping (with her
money).  She is only 42 and should have been game for the climb. Besides, the view, dome frescoes and the experience were indeed glorious."