Age Range. What is yours and why?

[Ranetka]

If she is 32, building a new career would be difficult if not impossible. She would be relegated to either being unemployed or working as a shop assistant or a hostess in a restaurant, for the rest of her life. This fact is not lost on the RW that I knew.

I came in at 32, now work in a field completely different to what i used to do in russia. I have not made a (great) career but I my salary is higher than average, I bought a property (not a penny from nowhere else), all it with no support from my husband or anyone else, do not have local (new) education either.

[bigdog]

JR, I feel the age difference is strictly a one on one situation. I do feel many women want to marry men similar to their father (if he was of good character of course). I think it is more compatibility and energy level. Is this woman someone you can spend time with all the time or just in bed? Do you have a lot in common? Can you see yourself with this same woman the rest of your life? Do you agree on moral and issues of character? If she has children, are you in agreement on theses issues? Many things to consider…… I have worked with men who are close to 65 and they have daughters in grade school. I know the age difference is at least 20 years. I am active and I could not keep up with this guy. I talked with friend with daughters and some would not want their daughters with older guys, others would not mind. I am of the mind that my daughter could marry a guy her age that still has his head up his kiester, or an older guy who has his act together financially and mentally. In the end it’s all up to compatibility and your ability to give emotionally as well as physically

[Misha]

Misha, since I have been here, there are three people who constantly told me that I am wrong. Look into the arrchives.

Ken C, Scott and you.

We already know what happened Ken C and Scott; I sincerely hope you have better luck than them.

So, Ambach, have you found anybody willing to marry a prenupt yet 

[groovlstk]

If she is 32, building a new career would be difficult if not impossible. She would be relegated to either being unemployed or working as a shop assistant or a hostess in a restaurant, for the rest of her life. This fact is not lost on the RW that I knew.

Ambach, I think you're over-generalizing, the woman's previous profession is really key here. Some transfer well from Ukraine/Russia to the US, some are like water and oil.

[ambach123]

In my experience most of the FSUW have degrees in economics, accounting or marketing or similar ones non transferable to our system.

The three women I knew, they were all 30+ and none wanted to work in USA; they knew what kind of job they would get.

I am sure there are some 30+ women who have enough motivation to build new careers in USA, but most don't have it. A twenty something woman would have much greater determination to get new education and also to upgrade;  and as we have already seen the two are very connected.

In general, you marry a twenty something RW, you do it at your own peril, regardless of what age you are. This is generally true, of course there are exceptions. You can find a young woman, who can can build a career for herself, and would be with you for the rest of your days. But then you can win lottery too.

[groovlstk]

Not much I can add to this thread other than:

1. All you guys who are dating much younger women who live 5000 miles away? You are not in an age gap relationship. You won't be able to say that you're in an age gap relationship until you're married or otherwise living together. You can trot out theories about what it takes to succeed in an age gap relationship, you can outline the regimen of self-reflection you're keeping to prepare for when she arrives, all of it is worthless.

2. If you date a much younger woman who tells you she is OK or doesn't mind the age gap, don't believe her. She may believe 100% that what she's telling you is true, but it's one of those things she'll never know until she's experiencing it.

3. You can believe that you have special qualities that will make your age gap irrelevant, and just for the heck of it, suppose you are pretty darned special. Realize that you're only 1/2 of the equation - your wife will inevitably discover the less pleasant aspects of an age gap relationship and there's nothing you can do to change it, she'll have to accept it. And understand this acceptance comes up for review regularly.

FWIW, I'm 15 years older than my wife, we're coming up on three years of marriage. Not a whole lot of time together but enough to know a few things. For instance, over the last six months I've been under enormous stress at work, while my wife's work has been sporadic. She has a ton of energy, so after sitting around our home much of the day she's very eager to go for long walks, see a movie, etc. after I return home. It's not a problem now even if I'd rather relax on most nights these days, but what about 10 years from now? 

I'd guess that it's the sort of thing that you can never come 100% to terms with, even if you think you have during the relationship's initial bloom. It's only bound to get more difficult, there's just no way around it.   

[Lily]

Fairly simple. Lots of AM have allowed their jewels to be cut off and turned into doormats instead of an equal partner.

Society and the media have been brainwashing for quite a few years. Its just plain bad to be a man.

Question, how common is this in the FSU?

Commom what? Sorry, I fail to understand. What inequality is meant here?

Why do you think it is bad to be a man???

Sounds to me as something unthinkable.

[Daveman]

As posted in another thread, I'm moving into the "older" bracket with my search.  Of my 4 relationships, the age differences were 11.5, 12, 16, 13 ... and really, I cared about them, I definitely had feelings for them, but I never really considered them as my equals and everything that i found seems to point to age. I viewed them as girls rather than women.  I came to this conclusion after some serious soul searching and re-reading comments from my journals (I journal everything, Dear Future Dave, don't be a freakin' idiot and do THAT again.. heh.. keeping thought journals is well worth doing if you have the tenacity for it).

So, I'm concentrating on ladies 38+, and I think I'll have a better result in finding a partner who really fulfills me on many different levels.  Definitely have some interesting prospects in communication at the moment, the youngest of whom is 39.  I'm really diggin' it as we really have much in common in, hmmm, what's the word? Lifestyle? manner of life? Not really sure, but whatever it is, at least to me, it's completely real. 

Mies pretty much described me in her earlier post in this thread, one aspect is that I am pretty much inflexible in many areas of my life.

Is this a permanent change? ahhhh, I have no idea, but for the moment at least, I'm looking closer to my own age.    

 

[Misha]

The three women I knew, they were all 30+ and none wanted to work in USA; they knew what kind of job they would get.

So you are basing your sweeping generalization on three women who had never actually lived in the United States and their perceptions as to what kind of jobs they thought they would or would not get? That is convincing to me 

[IAmZon]

So complicated is the formula we try to simplify here!

What are you looking for?

I have come to realize ( for me ) that there is a fairy tale relationship we AM all tend to accept and then expect ... that a man and woman should be EVERYTHING to each other: Mother; Lover; Wife; Friend; Business Partner; Social Collaborator:  the list goes on and on and on. And, it is very likely TOO long for reality. A man and woman need not fill ALL THESE different roles for each other. Indeed, it is most difficult just to successfully fulfill 2 or 3 for a lifetime.

A spring / winter relationship can work if the roles and expectation of the two are understood.  I think it is a LITTLE harder for a spring / winter relationship to conform to the "fairy tale" view that I reference above (not impossible)

Are you willing and able to ALLOW / ACCEPT a much younger woman to grow and change - perhaps in ways that are contrary to your preference?  That is another big concern for men who pursue large age gap relationships.  A person 20 years your junior is going to change a lot!

Groove posted comments that suggested:  1, until you are together you (the man )will just not know; and 2) Despite the woman's best intentions, until she is in a new environment, she will not know either. 

BOTTOM LINE - walk slowly and carry a big stick




 

[kievstar]

Hi Ambach,

Are you sure the 3 women you knew just did not want to work and just wanted to go on vacations?  If you have a desire to succeed in life not that hard to do in USA.   I will agree harder for a woman over 50 years of age who knows no English.  But your meeting women who speak English and know how to play foreigners. They may have education degrees but are you sure they just did not buy them.  What gets many RW in trouble in foreign countries is they paid for their education and really did not learn there profession. 

I saw a dentist this week (she is mid forties in age) in Chicago and she came over from Kiev on her own knowing no English 16 years ago and now has a very successful practice.  I asked her was it hard to start her practice and she told me a lot easier than it would have been in Ukraine. 

[Lily]

With regard to employoability, the age of the FSUW is important. If she is 22 and if her husband helps her, she can get education and build a career. Though it is very likely that she would not be with her benefactor much longer.

If she is 32, building a new career would be difficult if not impossible. She would be relegated to either being unemployed or working as a shop assistant or a hostess in a restaurant, for the rest of her life. This fact is not lost on the RW that I knew.
 

Hope the author is kidding here? 

A distinct mentality in Northern America is absence of ageism that flourish in the FSU. When I was a student in Chicago, a wrinkled and/or white haired student, even on full-time, was not an exception. As far as I could note, Americans emphasize individuality and tend to put less weight on generalizations like the 35+ people make bad students, that at certain age it is no good, or unacceptable to switch careers, etc. age based stigmas.

[Turboguy]

Personally, I agree with Lily.  Lots of people change careers later in life.  My wife may well end up in school until she is 35. 

On the first of the three tours I tried one of the guys was a 55 -60 year old orthopedic surgeon who had just finished law school and passed his bar and we going to give up medicine and persue a career in law.  Colonial Sanders real career was the chiken business which he started at 65 with his first SS check.  JC Penney's career as a store owner also started very late in life.

[mies]

Not much I can add to this thread other than:

1. All you guys who are dating much younger women who live 5000 miles away? You are not in an age gap relationship. You won't be able to say that you're in an age gap relationship until you're married or otherwise living together. You can trot out theories about what it takes to succeed in an age gap relationship, you can outline the regimen of self-reflection you're keeping to prepare for when she arrives, all of it is worthless.

2. If you date a much younger woman who tells you she is OK or doesn't mind the age gap, don't believe her. She may believe 100% that what she's telling you is true, but it's one of those things she'll never know until she's experiencing it.

3. You can believe that you have special qualities that will make your age gap irrelevant, and just for the heck of it, suppose you are pretty darned special. Realize that you're only 1/2 of the equation - your wife will inevitably discover the less pleasant aspects of an age gap relationship and there's nothing you can do to change it, she'll have to accept it. And understand this acceptance comes up for review regularly.

FWIW, I'm 15 years older than my wife, we're coming up on three years of marriage. Not a whole lot of time together but enough to know a few things. For instance, over the last six months I've been under enormous stress at work, while my wife's work has been sporadic. She has a ton of energy, so after sitting around our home much of the day she's very eager to go for long walks, see a movie, etc. after I return home. It's not a problem now even if I'd rather relax on most nights these days, but what about 10 years from now? 

I'd guess that it's the sort of thing that you can never come 100% to terms with, even if you think you have during the relationship's initial bloom. It's only bound to get more difficult, there's just no way around it.   

each word here is a word of truth

[ambach123]

I can only tell from my experience. I have known three women, two from Ukraine, and one from Russia. They were all about 30 years old. They all had University degrees, and could converse in English. None wanted to work in USA; they wanted to be mothers and housewives. The main reason is that they knew the kind of jobs they would get here, and that was not accpetable to them.

We own a business, and we advertised for a job, paying somewhat more than minimum wages, we got over 100 applicants for one job. Most of them native born Americans with local college degrees.

Would things get better soon? I don't know, but predictions are that they would get worse. And the high unemployment is with us for a long long time.

A dentist or a doctor can with some efforts get recertified here. There are also jobs in medical field, like nurse's assitants, ultrasound technicians etc, but they dont pay much, and still require training.  Of course medical field will always have demand. Not every RW wants to deal with sick people.

For the rest, it would be delustional for RW to think that she is going to get a job here, any job, any time soon.

A 22 year old RW, can go to college get her degrees and then upgrade, like Ken C's wife did, and countless others do, you can see them advertising on EM for a new husband.
 At 32, I am not sure how many would have the desire or determination to start all over again, and would her benefactor pay for her? I don't know.  

As I have said before, bringing a 22 year old girl here is a mistake to begin with.

RW watch the news, they know very well about USA; the well informed ones know this very well, and address this BEFORE they come here.

[Misha]

I can only tell from my experience. I have known three women, two from Ukraine, and one from Russia. They were all about 30 years old. They all had University degrees, and could converse in English. None wanted to work in USA; they wanted to be mothers and housewives. The main reason is that they knew the kind of jobs they would get here, and that was not accpetable to them.

They knew, based on ignorance, and that is not knowledge IMHO.

For the rest, it would be delustional for RW to think that she is going to get a job here, any job, any time soon.

Well, there are a lot of delusional men whose wives do work and do have decent jobs. Just on this forum, there are many women who have decent jobs.

RW watch the news, they know very well about USA; the well informed ones know this very well, and address this BEFORE they come here.

You mean they want Russian propaganda that passes as news in Putin's Russia 

[kievstar]

Hi Ambach,

Things in Milwaukee and Chicago area maybe different from where you live in the east.  Here not a problem at all for RW in there thirties to find good jobs who speak English.  The strong English is the key part.  Many RW are here that do not learn the language and they end up with jobs in the Russian community but of low quality. 

I do agree with you bringing a 20 year old who wants to go to school is a high risk.   I saw many girls like this in Kiev and up to 29 years old who were really determined to advance their schooling.  You could see through there eyes the scam they were trying or will pull.  Get an older guy to support the 4 to 10 years of schooling they wanted and than dump them when they hit low thirties in age.  I have always told men in person in Kiev you can play around with the school girls (can be women closer to 30 years old) but unless you knock them up there going to trade up on you once their bachelors, masters, and phd are done.

I used to go out with girls I knew in Kiev who really wanted to advance their schooling and get them drunk.  Women generally have loose lips when drunk and the truth would come out.  I found the girls who speak good English usually were up to no good in Kiev and if I wanted a serious girl would go for the ones who did not speak English.  My reason is that there is a ton of expats in Kiev and the good girls who speak English get boyfriends within weeks in an agency.  The ones who do not get a serious boyfriend are not of high quality usually.  This is for Kiev and for girls with no children.  Other cities maybe or probably different.

What amazes me about these girls they will marry an AM and be loyal for 6 to 10 years than drop them without a hint of a warning.  I know one girl right now with a guy in New York who will dump him in 6 years once her schooling is done.  My online Russian teacher who lives western part of USA now who used to work in agencies in Kiev more than 5 years ago tells me all the time about Ukraine women she helped meet their husbands dumping their husbands.  Seems like she has a new current story each month.  She also has stories about AM really being controlling.  So it goes both ways.  Usually during the 2 hour lesson we do about 30 minutes of learning and the rest talking about divorces or strange men in the agencies.   

[Mir]

I used to go out with girls I knew in Kiev who really wanted to advance their schooling and get them drunk.

Getting a Ukrainian woman drunk while remaining sober yourself is a great achievement IMO 

[Makkin]

Mir,

  That's soooo true....lol.

   My friend was with me in Odessa and we ventured a very nice night club and a 105 pound lady drank a bottle of vodka with my friend. I bought a second bottle for them and watched the fun happen. I had two shots only but the 105 lady drank my buddy right under the table in a straight up vodka challenge. Needless to say my friend had to be literally carried out and to our apartment while the lady found her way home fine..lol.

Makkin

[kievstar]

Lets talk a little about drinking.  My wife was reading about Milwaukee and was laughing today with me over skype how it is a city known for the following:  highest % of bars to people in the World, Biggest festival city of the World, largest annual music festival (summerfest) and Irish festival in the World, and former city of over 1000 micro breweries (a lot less now).  German decent have a huge number of people here with cities in the suburbs called New Berlin and Germantown. 

So people here can drink.  I am from Detroit and really cannot drink like the people I know here so I have some tricks I have learned to make it look like I can drink.  Also, I went to Michigan State University during the years Playboy named the university best looking girls several times in addition best party school.  I have no problem drinking what leaves the mouth when sick to stay in the game. 

First if your going to be drinking a lot eat a lot of bread and drink a lot of water before drinking.  Morning of my wedding I ate two loaves of bread and drank 3 plus litres of water.

If a heavy drinker, mix it up on them.  RM and most AM have a hard time going vodka, beer, jack and coke, wine, champagne and back to vodka, rum, etc.   I like to do that if a man challenges me to drink.  I accept the challenge but call for the alternate drink selection rule.  Meaning you pick one I pick one and has to be something on the menu.  Not into goat piss like the movie "beer fest".  So important to make sure the menu rule is in place.

If it is going to be just the typical cognac or Russian toast festival all night.  Eat as much food all night and as you do the shot tip the glass to have the alcohol run away from your mouth onto the floor or wherever necessary.  This is not to be done in someones house.  If you can get away with another glass, spit it out there when doing the chaser.  I do that often with a bottle beer when shots start flying playing bar dice in Milwaukee.

You can also throw the shot over your shoulder but be careful sometimes you hit a waitress like I did in the nightclub Carribean club in Kiev.  I looked left and than right but she was going right than left.  This was a very bad night as we were on our 3rd or 4th bar celebrating Kiev day.  Started with about 10-12 people and were down to the last 5 and I drank my last shot thinking I was done.  Than someone could not drink theirs and  I said this is how you should drink it.  We still laugh to this day and thankfully there was a meaner RW at our table than the waitress.

I have many more tricks I have been taught in the many countries I have visited.  But eat a lot of bread, drink a ton of water, spill alcohol when appropriate, you can handle any RM.  When it comes to RW slow slip them.  When first dating my now wife I got her blitzed several times on slow sipping.  Head to head with no games my wife of 115 pounds and 178cm can destroy me of 195 pounds and 193.5cm. 

[IAmZon]

How an "older" man should act at a bar, or in life? Is there a right way?

Read Steppenwolf (orig. German Der Steppenwolf) is the tenth novel by German-Swiss author Hermann Hesse. Originally published in Germany in 1927, it was first translated into English in 1929. Combining autobiographical and fantastic elements, the novel was named after the lonesome wolf of the steppes.

Don't think being a non drinker will help one bridge culture and age.  There is not an easy way. 

I read it last year, and think of it most every weekend.  Good food for thought. 

[Makkin]

  Ha Ha Ha ....Drinking....


    I must admit that I seldom drink but when I do I'm all "RUSSIAN"...


    I refuse to use drugs unless it's something prescibed and for a certain ailment or remedy.


    I love to be around a good drinking game and if challenged I will accept win or lose...lol.


     Sometimes it's best to be human and enjoy life about drinking and such things as it makes the time more interesting and the people more human??

   Makkin

[Mir]

Come to think if it I have met some girls in Ukraine who hardly touch alcohol as they don't like the taste.

[SANDRO43]

   I love to be around a good drinking game

Like this one ?

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxTbr29EogM[/youtube]

[I/O]

Even Ken C's wife came when she was 19

IIRC, she was 21 when they met.

I can only tell from my experience.

Yes.

I have known three women, two from Ukraine, and one from Russia.

Amazing, some of us "knew" 3 times that on our first trip and still don't consider ourselves very "experienced". Certainly not experienced enough to suggest that any RW over 30 is destined to a life of dishwashing if she moves west.

Ambach, you may be well intentioned but what you are suggesting is rubbish. I'm watching quite the opposite all around me right now with 4 different RW/UW, all over 30 and one over 50 regaining accreditation in law, medicine and commerce here in Au. Even more ironically, taking your comments into account, the 4 I know locally under 30, including my wife are the ones not particularly interested in ramping up their careers at this time and 2 of them are busy having (or just had) babies.

Will these younger ones trade us old fools in once they get what they want? Who knows and who cares? I have every reason to think otherwise right now but if that should change, I'll worry about it when the time comes. 

I/O