Starting out. The Realities of FSU Women VS American Women

[Daveman]

Why don't they?

The fact of the matter is that dating in Russia was a lot easier than dating in my city. I could date and marry a woman in Russia that I could not have easily found and married in my city.

Um, most AW don't have that very sexy accent, and the gorgeous Slavic eyes.  

I've been inside Canada 7 times in the past two months.  The ladies that I saw were not much different from the US in most ways.  

Really though, various parts of the US have varying degrees of genetically beautiful saturation levels -- tennessee, georgia, mississippi, parts of texas, etc etc, have the highest concentrations, where the Pacific NW seems to have the lowest.  Must be related to the Genetically Ugly Migration Factor!    

Joking aside, after years of observation in this area, I have to say that regional concentrations of pretty ladies do seem to vary greatly.  Of course, these are merely my observations which may or may not be related to reality in any way.


As far as the materialism aspect of AW vs RW.. there really is a difference. BOTH are VERY materialistic (in general, of course there are exceptions), however, the RW seem to take the envy factor to an extreme.  Anything which gives them a boost in perceived status (which is a construct of the mind and really doesn't exist anywhere else - and thus subject to change with societal value systems) is highly to almost insanely desired.  This is really an area to tread carefully while searching.  If a guy winds up with a real status queen, the projected life span before suicide is approximately eleven seconds.

[Sculpto]

Money and power has always bought youth and beauty since the advent of time; this is not my line, it has always been that way.

In your small limited view of the world that might be true, but, some people can not be bought for any price.  If you, Ambach, want to buy a wife, why not just rent and not deal with the hassles?

[ambach123]

Sculpto I already stated, this is NOT my line. It is a fact of life and has been that way since the advent of time. You need to read history.

[KenC]

Actually I would like to use KenC as an example.

KenC is one of the very few I have seen who did marry a much younger beautiful Woman.

I would not say this marriage occured because Lena was Russian.
I would also bet Lena did not set out to marry someone like Ken before meeting him.

Yet. The way KenC presented himself to Lena. How he carried himself to her is the reason she fell in love with him.
Her being Russian had nothing to do with it.

For this I would say KenC could have also met and married a much younger AW had he sought to do so.
How KenC presented and carried himself is reason he acomplished this. Has nothing to do with Lena being Russian.

Ravens,
OK, now you've dragged me into this. (I was actually reading this before this post and wanted to comment)

When I first "met" Lena on line I was 45 and regularly dating AW from 27 to late 30's.  Most were in their early 30's.  Personally, I think men can stretch the age difference with women from the fsu, but only a few years.  Something like 5 years would be my estimate.  I base this opinion on two things.  #1 People from the fsu seem to mature faster than Americans.  And maybe "mature" is the wrong word, but they are on a faster life cycle than most Americans.  They tend to marry earlier, have children earlier and in general live their lives as adults earlier than most Americans.  Thus the "old maid syndrome" that kicks in at about 27 for fsu women.  Americans were on a similar schedule back in the 50's but not now.  (I have two kids in their 30's that have never been married nor are in any big hurry to do so)  #2 AM age out better than men from the fsu.  Better health care, more consideration to keeping fit, easier life style and less drinking would be my best guesses.

The point I think that has been overlooked as what I consider the biggest difference between AW and fsuW is femininity.  Our American society has skewed things where women have become more manly and men have become more feminine.  The roles have seemed to moved in the wrong direction IMO.  Again, I think it is a throw back to our times in the 50's where the family roles were more like it is now in the fsu.  That is what I think about when the mention of "traditional women" comes about.

[JR]

Ravens makes a lot of good points, especially about the way agencies conduct business. I think the reason they succeed is that they primarily sell a dream. Specifically the idea that one can pull out their check book and buy a beautiful woman.

I can vouch for the status part, FSUW are simply INTENSE about it. DISCLAIMER: this is a general statement and in NO WAY intended to reflect the condition of each and every woman from the former Soviet Union

[Sculpto]

Sculpto I already stated, this is NOT my line. It is a fact of life and has been that way since the advent of time. You need to read history.

You believe that line.  I am not saying it never happens or never did.. but.. that is not all there is to life.. far from it.  Yet, you are so embedded in that view that you can not even consider that there are others who do not believe in it and find your belief to be not only outmoded and shallow but frankly quite unattractive.  

I think someone said the grandest stupidity is failing over and over again and persisting in doing things the same way.. or something along those lines.  3 strikes Ambach.  Don't be surprised when you find yourself on a blacklist.

[Sculpto]

You're missing my point: it's the DESIRE to have a living standard above and beyond what friends and acquaintances have. This desire is all-consuming in some FSU people and specifically why they seek out foreign men.

I believe a lot of guys get lulled into thinking FSU women are less materialistic because they are forced to live more frugally in their native country. If they had the means to fill their garages up with toys, most would - and they would do it in an ostentatious manner so that everyone who passed by would know they were living a "better" life.

Thus I take my lady to Mexico and show her what real poverty looks like and the value of humility.  Might be a long shot but its worth a try.  That said.. I have included plenty of nice splurges... cuz I am not that pious, just appreciate what i have and don't covet that which I don't. 

[KenC]

While Ambach's quotation is slightly off when he said

Money and power has always bought youth and beauty since the advent of time; this is not my line, it has always been that way.

The word "bought" tells more about Ambach's state of mind, but the essence of what he said is true.  A better phrasing would be:
Men with money or power have always attracted young and beautiful women since the advent of time.
KenC

[OlgaH]

In your small limited view of the world that might be true, but, some people can not be bought for any price. 

I recall one classic joke.

During a reception at Buckingham Palace the Queen approached George Bernard Shaw and asked him:

- Mr. Shaw, is it true you have said that any woman can be bought for money?

- Yes, it is true, Your Majesty.

- Even me?

- You are a woman, Your Majesty.

- So, how much am I worth ?

- I think £ 10,000, Your Majesty.

- So little money!

- There you are, Your Majesty! You have started to bargain.

and another one.

A man at the beach has started to drop hints about sex to a woman.

The woman expressing indignation : Who do you take me for? I'm not a prostitute.

The man: I'm sorry if I offended you but I was not going to pay.

It was just jokes  

[ambach123]

Sculpto, I don't usually respond to you.

What three strikes? I enjoyed the experience immensely, and would do them over again. All of the women were head over heels, and terrific company, beautiful, well educated, and elegant.

Look over sometime, what is the commonest cause of divorces in USA.

[Sculpto]

Sculpto, I don't usually respond to you.

What three strikes? I enjoyed the experience immensely, and would do them over again. All of the women were head over heels, and terrific company, beautiful, well educated, and elegant.

Look over sometime, what is the commonest cause of divorces in USA.

Actually Ambach, you respond every time I call you out.

I am sure you enjoyed the experience.. you got to DO three beautiful women who without the fantasy you created for them probably would not have given you the time of day.  You used your impression of wealth to bed them down.  Everyone thinks it.. I am just finally saying it out loud.

the most common cause of divorce, regardless of what surveys say, is lack of commitment.

While Ambach's quotation is slightly off when he saidThe word "bought" tells more about Ambach's state of mind, but the essence of what he said is true.  A better phrasing would be:
Men with money or power have always attracted young and beautiful women since the advent of time.
KenC

He wants the "girl friend experience" but he is too cheap to pay a professional.  Maybe he will be so kind to prove to us that such an assessment isn't true.. but.. I doubt he will even try.

[Ravens9273]

KenC
Sorry to have brought you in this.  
I give my utmost respect and surly all intentions were meant as a compliment.

In response to some comments.

I mentioned Anastasia and it was said to be irrelavent that some Men do not use agencies.
Anastasia is relevant. Reason being companies such as Anastasia have created the fantasy that Men believe and take to normal sites to meet RW without agencies.

The whole industry around marrying RW has put into the minds of Men that it is not only EASIER to marry a RW but a Man can also marry out of his league.

Even if you do not use agencies or Anastasia you still have this belief even on sites as Freepersonals.ru etc....In your mind you believe it is easier. This makes your comfort level higher to communicate with these ladies.

You have a different attitude aproaching RW then you do AW due to the fantasy and picture painted to us from the industry.

This little difference in attitude is reason Men can write to RW. The same Men have the attitude already that AW are not easy to meet, especially if looking for one beyond our means and league.

If marrying RW were so much easier there would be no need for fake letters and all the nonsense involved in this pursuit. It would mean the ladies would all be real and Anastasia the most honest business in the world. The simple fact that there is so much so called fraud and scams from the Business end (agencies and websites, not talking about fat yuri sitting at home trying the visa scam) says it all.
If all these ladies REALLY wanted to meet and Marry foreign men at any age there would be no need for all the scams.


Simply my point is. If the average Man on this persuit had the same attitude of this being easy (fantasy created by agencies) and used it towards AW they could also succeed there as well. This is the simple point I am making.

[Daveman]

...


Simply my point is. If the average Man on this persuit had the same attitude of this being easy (fantasy created by agencies) and used it towards AW they could also succeed there as well. This is the simple point I am making.

Generally I agree with this.  I think the difference is that, by percentage, I think FSUW are a little faster on the draw to want to get married, e.g., barely knowing a man, or knowing superficially.  Perhaps that isn't actually true, but just seems that way. I don't have enough experience to really make a determination, but it really does seem that way.

I do agree that if a man has confidence, and puts the same identical effort into finding ladies on his home turf, he will absolutely find many very attractive and possibly compatible ladies to court and possibly more.

[Ravens9273]

Generally I agree with this.  I think the difference is that, by percentage, I think FSUW are a little faster on the draw to want to get married, e.g., barely knowing a man, or knowing superficially.  Perhaps that isn't actually true, but just seems that way. I don't have enough experience to really make a determination, but it really does seem that way.

I do agree that if a man has confidence, and puts the same identical effort into finding ladies on his home turf, he will absolutely find many very attractive and possibly compatible ladies to court and possibly more.

Daveman you make a very good point.

Biggest reason I believe so many marry fast is the fact this is really the only way two can be together when from different countries. Many visits with long times apart are not very fun. We all know many have even proposed after a 1 week meeting.
If not for the urgency of going home etc... The amount of quick proposals would not occur.

With AW we do not have to marry to be together. At the same time how many Men would be proposing to the AW since the need to do so is not present with distance. 

[Hub]

My point in this thread is the myths to RW are so outrageous and they are not Better then AW as a whole.

However my point is their odds are the same in marrying both AW and RW of equal quality.

I agree with your first sentence.  I disagree with your second sentence.

In both the FSU and USA there are roughly equal percentages of women who could be rated from 1 to 10 based on any given variable.  This is in support of your first sentence.

However, any given AM can attract a FSU woman higher on the scale than he can attract an AW.  There are many reasons for this that have been discussed in other threads.

A couple of other points.

To add to my original listing, I will piggy back upon KenC remark.

FSU women do act more feminine than AW.

Also, FSU women do make attempts to look their best with regard to facial and hair care; AND they tend to dress much more provocatively than AW.  This is what causes most men to think that FSU women are better looking on average than AW.  However, if you take away the makeup and provocative clothing, the FSU women will look no better on average than AW.

FSU women are however, on average, more slender than AW.  So if slender is your thing, then FSU women definitely have the advantage.  Whether they will keep the slender figure when they move west is another question.

[Hub]

I don't know of the facts concerning dislike between Ambach and Sculpto, but certainly the statement of Ambach, as modified by KenC cannot be denied by any reasonable intelligent person.

Money and power has always bought youth and beauty since the advent of time.  Ambach

Men with money or power have always attracted young and beautiful women since the advent of time.  KenC

[Sculpto]

Hub.. Ambach has presented repeatedly what appears to the casual observer to be a chronicle of a certain kind of tourism not designed to result in marriage but in something more sordid.  he has bragged about his wealth and how he has used it to lure ladies to him by dangling a carrot.. a carrot filled with conditions.  I think I speak for just about everyone in saying it is at the minimum distasteful and at worst.. well.. a lot worse. 

I don't deny that rich men attract hot young women.  Of course they do.. but what kind of women are those who are merely attracted by money?  And why would any rich guy with self respect allow himself to be used that way?  There is so much more to life and love to reduce it to a transaction and, if thats all a very rich man wants, I mean a transaction.. he can afford high quality rentals.. why settle for the same bread day after day if he doesn't have to?

[OlgaH]

.. but what kind of women are those who are merely attracted by money?  And why would any rich guy with self respect allow himself to be used that way?  There is so much more to life and love to reduce it to a transaction and, if thats all a very rich man wants, I mean a transaction.. he can afford high quality rentals.. why settle for the same bread day after day if he doesn't have to?

lease  

I'm a beautiful  (spectacularly beautiful) 25 year old girl. I'm articulate and classy. I'm not from New York. I'm looking to get married to a guy who makes at least half a million a year...

Your offer, from the prospective of a guy like me, is plain and simple a crappy business deal. Here's why. Cutting through all the B.S., what you suggest is a simple trade: you bring your looks to the party and I bring my money. Fine, simple. But here's the rub, your looks will fade and my money will likely continue into perpetuity...in fact, it is very likely that my income increases but it is an absolute certainty that you won'tbe getting any more beautiful!

...if you want to enter into some sort of lease, let me know.

Full text
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[Daveman]

Hub.. Ambach has presented repeatedly what appears to the casual observer to be a chronicle of a certain kind of tourism not designed to result in marriage but in something more sordid.  he has bragged about his wealth and how he has used it to lure ladies to him by dangling a carrot.. a carrot filled with conditions.  I think I speak for just about everyone in saying it is at the minimum distasteful and at worst.. well.. a lot worse. 

....

These are assumptions based solely upon a distaste for a combination of his posting style, mention of wealth, mention of the importance of sex, and his mentioning of prenups.

1) Wealth is not a bad thing.  Perhaps modesty is more attractive.

2) Most normal people enjoy sex (no way!). I've had sex with more RW than Ambach, and as far as I know, they at least pretended to be willing and (gasp) liked it! And I'd do it again! and again! and .. you get the idea. sheesh.  Call that like you see it.  

Everyone assumes he's flaunting his wealth and making promises of marriage for sex.  These are assumptions based on between the lines interpretations. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.  One thing to consider -- RW do tend to be attracted to modesty.  If he's actually "flaunting" then the ladies he's attracting are the type who would go for such bait... get the drift?  These are not some naive fairy tale princesses...
 
3) With the way the world and relationships are today, a man or woman, when there is something to lose, is foolish to NOT have a prenup.  Yeah, I know, I know, love, trust, all those wonderful romantic dreams.  In practical terms, a prenup is a tool. Nothing more.  I don't rally need one, but i certainly wouldn't hesitate to use one if I thought it necessary.  That being said, Ambach has been repeatedly accused of using a prenup as some kind of litmus test of true love.  Has he actually said this?  I truly don't know, but if he hasn't, then it's more ethereal wisdom coming from the great "between".

It's time to stop beating the Ambach horse... it's been dead so long the corpse is gone.

[djfourmonie]

I don't deny that rich men attract hot young women.  Of course they do.. but what kind of women are those who are merely attracted by money?  And why would any rich guy with self respect allow himself to be used that way?  There is so much more to life and love to reduce it to a transaction and, if thats all a very rich man wants, I mean a transaction.. he can afford high quality rentals.. why settle for the same bread day after day if he doesn't have to?

 I couldn't agree more....

 I'm not "window shopping" FSU women because I'm trying to marry "up" I'm attracting the same level of beauty actually. The difference is an average 3-5 years younger in selected FSU countries and slightly different mindset.

 At home (Los Angeles) and in Western Europe, my effective dating age range is 28-40. Could I find a woman around 25 that's interested? Sure but I find that its fairly rare. Women in America seldom venture further than a 3-5 year age difference unless there is some compelling reason, that I don't apparently have procession of...

 I can shave 1-2 years off that age range in Western Europe and I believe I can shave another 2 years off that in FSU, putting my minimum age around 24-25.

 If you want a ready made family (1-2 children) you don't have to venture overseas, there are millions of single mothers in America and Canada.

 I rather start from scratch but I'm open minded...

 I've just been working a ton with the goal of focusing on my social life soon.

 
  

[JR]

I luv you Daveman

[ambach123]

I asked a RW, what is that she desired in life.
Here is her response, verbatim. I will never identify her, but I believe this is true for most if not all RW.

I want simple things for myself: nice home, kind husband and clever children and free of debts, because debts are so common in your country, for me it debt is evil.
But psychological and emotional atmosphere at home are extremely important for me.  I against violence, roughness or pressure in family. I can not live so...! I hope for equal in rights union between the husband and wife though I recognize that a husband is a leader of family (As we say in my country:a husband is a head,  wife is a neck) )).
Still I ask you be not silent and to talk about your desires with me, three gentle words do more than one hundred strict ones.

She is about 30 years old. We have already met, two times.
It would be incredibly naive to think, that a RW would not consider your financial status a primary factor in her choice. Fortunately I don't have any debts, but the point is that she asked, and emphasized it again.

Could the same be written by an AW? I don't know, but she would not choose me to write that.

[JR]

What woman rushes to live with a man in a cardboard box under a freeway overpass?

What man rushes to be with an ugly, worty and obese old woman?

[Misha]

It would be incredibly naive to think, that a RW would not consider your financial status a primary factor in her choice.

Ambach, I would say that it is as naive to think that financial status is the sole factor in her choice and that it will guarantee a happy and successful marriage 

[ECOCKS]

Another city heard from:

FSUW are more attractive than AW.

FSUW are personally cleaner than AW.

FSUW are in better shape than the AW.

FSUW keep a cleaner house than the AW.

FSUW are every bit as materialistic as AW, maybe more.

FSUW are more literate than AW.

FSUW are more absolute than AW.

I debated making a flat statement that FSUW are more beautiful than AW and just cannot quite do it. However, I am absolutely certain that if you grabbed the first 100 women you saw at the top of the Kreshatyk metro escalator at 9 AM and compared them to the first 100 women to come out of Grand Central Station or DC's primary downtown station at the same time of the workday, there would be between 2 and 3 times as many "beautiful" women in the Kreshatyk group by normal standards.