I met a girl under special circumstances

[mies]

I know this is about other issues. My conclusion was drawn solely from the posts of the men on this thread. Reading their arguments - it does sound like those topics is what concerns them most. Well - and money too, of course. That this woman only cares about money.

as for politicians and other public figures - it is not so uncommon that they change their political views to the opposite - "stimulated" by financial bonuses. And they still remain popular, well-paid, and efficient in persuading the public. If you want to say that politicians, same as prostitutes can never be trusted - I am not 100% persuaded. There are some politicians who can be generally trusted, and some - who go with the cash flow. I guess all people come in varieties - both politicians, public figures, and prostitutes too.

I hope you understand that I am playing devil's advocate and I do not advice all men to marry prostitutes. But I am also not with the majority (male majority) that ostracizes prostitutes from "normal" society.  

Why so many men in this thread are talking about 10 years of prostitution, 1/3 of active life of prostitution, etc etc - if the reported girl is known for working in escort service for 2 years? Where does other ugly generalizations come from - generalizations about pervert sex, "spraying sperm in the mouth", group sex at the poker game, sex with dirty lowlifes and strangers, and so on? Is this the outburst of subconscious of the men? Then *some* men need to understand themselves better before blaming the prostitutes. It's their suppressed wild imagination, not this particular woman - that these men are fighting with.

[Sculpto]

attitude about ethics, honesty, ect.

Why do you assume hookers are dishonest.  An argument can be made that they are more honest than other women who manipulate their man to get what they want.

[SMS60]

Why do you assume hookers are dishonest.  An argument can be made that they are more honest than other women who manipulate their man to get what they want.

I wouldn't take any chances, especially since noone is holding a gun to my head.

In all honesty Sculpt, if you had a business where there was a large amount of cash flow would you allow a prostitute ( high end or low end) to manage it?  I wouldn't but thats me.

[Sculpto]

I wouldn't take any chances, especially since noone is holding a gun to my head.

In all honesty Sculpt, if you had a business where there was a large amount of cash flow would you allow a prostitute ( high end or low end) to manage it?  I wouldn't but thats me.

I would depend entirely on the person.  When my Father's business was at its peak he employed a former navy seal as the divisional manager of three stores in St. Louis.  Navy Seal.. one would think he would have impeccable moral and ethical standards.  he stole $600,000.

Every individual can be ethical or a criminal.  What they do on the surface has not that much to do with who they are inside.  Thats why i personally have little patience for people who judge others by their profession.

[Misha]

Why do you assume hookers are dishonest.  An argument can be made that they are more honest than other women who manipulate their man to get what they want.

Even if they are honest, a prostitute who has been in the profession for many years:

• Was usually not working, building experience in some other profession;
• Made a choice to work in a profession as a means of earning easy money;
• Is more likely to have substance abuse issue;
• Is more likely to have issues (psychological, emotional);
• Is more likely to see men as clients, and is more likely IMHO to have problems developing a solid relationship with any man based on trust, equality and sacrificing to meet common goals.

For these reasons, I personally would not have considered marrying a prostitute. Other men can believe the Pretty Woman fantasy if they will, but I don't buy it.

[BillyB]

Billy, there really is a difference between a high end escort and a street walker, especially in terms of mentality and self esteem.

A difference? Who's the better of the two? The street walker will sleep with small time crooks and drug users or the high end escorts that spread their legs for the big time criminals such as CEO's and politicians. I remember your views on politicians and CEO's and they are some of the worst people around in your mind. So does street walkers have better mentality and self esteem sleeping with better people?

As far as honesty goes, read acrazybear's( a cop) experience with hookers and how many times they did the right thing because it's right instead of personal gain. They want money for sex and for any honest info they may possess.

Mies, you are also trying to distinguish the different levels and quality of prostitutes. How do you know that CEO she sleeps with isn't into child molestation or bestiality besides normal missionary position sex? You're not turning me on to any prostitutes when you insinuate some hookers sleep with a better type of customer. Prostitutes all have one thing in common and that is they are willing to sleep with strangers on a daily or hourly basis no matter if they choose a street bum or CEO. That one thing alone turns me off. Based on the fact they sleep with strangers, doesn't that set off alarm bells in your head that those women have some serious mental or psychological issues?

Everytime there is a thread that talks about prostitutes and I mean everytime, there's always somebody that tries to imply prostitutes are regular people not much different from the rest of us. There is a big difference and it's not good for them or for society to have so many people with broken lives out there.

[mies]

Mies, you are also trying to distinguish the different levels and quality of prostitutes. How do you know that CEO she sleeps with isn't into child molestation or bestiality besides normal missionary position sex? You're not turning me on to any prostitutes when you insinuate some hookers sleep with a better type of customer. Prostitutes all have one thing in common and that is they are willing to sleep with strangers on a daily or hourly basis no matter if they choose a street bum or CEO. That one thing alone turns me off. Based on the fact they sleep with strangers, doesn't that set off alarm bells in your head that those women have some serious mental or psychological issues?

no - you read me wrong. This was not my intent at all and this is not what i was talking about.

[mies]

You seem so intent on proving that all women have been prostitutes at some point in their life  The fact of the matter is that I spent a lot of time talking to my wife before getting married, and I know her character and personality. I knew before marriage that she had not "turned some tricks" and I am confident now that she has never "turned some tricks."

I would never marry or date a man who would be questioning me on the matter of my past trying to figure out whether I was or was not a prostitute. I have nothing to conceal, but this kind of attitude from a man would be a deal breaker. If he will look for proofs that I had not "turned some tricks" - he can go to hell. 

[BillyB]

 I am also not with the majority (male majority) that ostracizes prostitutes from "normal" society.  

 Where does other ugly generalizations come from - generalizations about pervert sex, "spraying sperm in the mouth", group sex at the poker game, sex with dirty lowlifes and strangers, and so on? Is this the outburst of subconscious of the men? Then *some* men need to understand themselves better before blaming the prostitutes. It's their suppressed wild imagination, not this particular woman - that these men are fighting with.

Will it make a prostitute more acceptable for a wife if you knew that particular woman specializes only on missionary position with CEOs, politicians, football trainers and university presidents? No perversions, men candidates are pre-screened, and she always insists on using condoms.

Mies, I DO understand where you're coming from. Bring prostitutes up saying they have standards and bring normal people down saying we're not much different.

If you're not sure about what happens behind closed doors with a hooker, rent a porn movie and it'll give you an idea, then add the ingredients of drugs and the sick fantasies some men want. Very rarely do you find men hiring a hooker just to cuddle up with for a little innocent affection. Sure the hooker may get the occasional clean cut guy who strays once from his wife or a college boy who has to release his hormones but they still associate with some of the lowest lifeforms out there willingly or unkowningly. They can say they're choosy when picking customers and have standards all they want. I don't beleive them.

[Faux Pas]

no - you read me wrong. This was not my intent at all and this is not what i was talking about.

mies
You usually makes a lot of good sense but, I, like Billy am not following you on this one.

I would never marry or date a man who would be questioning me on the matter of my past trying to figure out whether I was or was not a prostitute. I have nothing to conceal, but this kind of attitude from a man would be a deal breaker. If he will look for proofs that I had not "turned some tricks" - he can go to hell.  

If this is what you actually meant I don't know how we could have possibly ascertained that from what you posted but, that really isn't the thrust of the topic. This guy KNOWS she is a prostitute. He was after all a "john" of hers in an indirect way. I have never known a woman personally who would stand for such interrogation as you mentioned and I wouldn't blame them. It appears you are missing the point with your quest to sanitize prostitutes.

Listen, there are many (I'm relatively sure) good people who are whores, prostitutes and people in the sex industry. There are also many many who are not. Put the shoe on the other foot for a minute. Who you marry a man who was a prostitute?

[mies]

Mies, I DO understand where you're coming from. Bring prostitutes up saying they have standards and bring normal people down saying we're not much different.

If you're not sure about what happens behind closed doors with a hooker, rent a porn movie and it'll give you an idea, then add the ingredients of drugs and the sick fantasies some men want. Very rarely do you find men hiring a hooker just to cuddle up with for a little innocent affection. Sure the hooker may get the occasional clean cut guy who strays once from his wife or a college boy who has to release his hormones but they still associate with some of the lowest lifeforms out there willingly or unkowningly. They can say they're choosy when picking customers and have standards all they want. I don't beleive them.

No and No.
I do not try to bring "normal" people down - i do not make them rent porn movies or pay for prostitutes - it's their choice.
I do not try to bring prostitutes up - it's their choice too.
I do not care what kind of perversions and fantasies people enjoy behind the doors of their bedrooms as long as it does not harm the society. And if one person wants to give up his life and be eaten by his lover as an act of perversion and this is mutual desire - I have no problems with it either. You may call me a pervert if you want.
I am 100% opposed to two things - forced sex (including date rapes and spousal rapes), and pedophilia. Because in both cases there is a victim and a predator.  Whenever there is a volunatarily unforced consent of people to have intercourse - I do not care what kind is it, or under what circumstances.
I do not approve cheating in marriages/dating - but this topic is too complex and i don't want to get involved in others sexual and love affairs.  

Here are some quotes from the men in this thread. You are quoted most - because your posts have been most insightful:

Billy B: “My main beef with a hooker is that I question her mental state in that she will open her legs for men of all walks of life, many of them could be the worst of the worst, all because of money.
She knows you know and maybe she's not telling you the full truth about what happens behind the scenes. Maybe she'll do 10 guys at once in an orgy if the money is good. Maybe she'll participate in some freaky sexual fantasies some men have. Use your imagination. Can you live with this knowing hundreds of guys have done your wife in strange ways and that she's allowed her body to be rented out?
Maybe the OP can handle it but I can't stand the thought of other men from the darkest, lowest places in society doing their business on my woman or in her mouth on a daily or hourly basis.

…as long as she doesn't have strange men spraying sperm on them or in their mouth on an hourly basis.

Who's the better of the two? The street walker will sleep with small time crooks and drug users or the high end escorts that spread their legs for the big time criminals such as CEO's and politicians.”

"what happens behind closed doors with a hooker,  ... then add the ingredients of drugs and the sick fantasies some men want. ...rent a porn movie"

Misha: “At the age of 29, she has probably been working in her profession for over a decade. … Depends on a number of factors. However, let's say hypothetically speaking that a woman has been a professional prostitute for a decade from the age of 19 to 29. This would mean that a third of her life would have been spent in the profession.”

JR: “I don't think I would call her a courtesean. She was going to have sex with him in front of his friends. What we do know is that she showed up to an apartment "too crowded" (a party perhaps?) prepared to have sex with whoever. …The OP's girl showed up to a party to have sex with him in front of his friends.”

Kievstar: “But this girl who shows up at some old man like frat party is not a high end girl.  High end girls do not just take any clients let alone random poker night clients.”

GOB: “Has your girl ever mentioned doing any "porn" (movies, magazines, etc.)?”



Billy B - no offense, but maybe you are watching a bit too much porn.
On a general note - the quotes above give quite interesting portrait of sexual preferences of the men quoted.
On the unrelated topic - you don't need to rent porn - you can watch it online - for free or for membership charge.

[Sculpto]

A difference? Who's the better of the two? The street walker will sleep with small time crooks and drug users or the high end escorts that spread their legs for the big time criminals such as CEO's and politicians. I remember your views on politicians and CEO's and they are some of the worst people around in your mind. So does street walkers have better mentality and self esteem sleeping with better people?

As far as honesty goes, read acrazybear's( a cop) experience with hookers and how many times they did the right thing because it's right instead of personal gain. They want money for sex and for any honest info they may possess.

Mies, you are also trying to distinguish the different levels and quality of prostitutes. How do you know that CEO she sleeps with isn't into child molestation or bestiality besides normal missionary position sex? You're not turning me on to any prostitutes when you insinuate some hookers sleep with a better type of customer. Prostitutes all have one thing in common and that is they are willing to sleep with strangers on a daily or hourly basis no matter if they choose a street bum or CEO. That one thing alone turns me off. Based on the fact they sleep with strangers, doesn't that set off alarm bells in your head that those women have some serious mental or psychological issues?

Everytime there is a thread that talks about prostitutes and I mean everytime, there's always somebody that tries to imply prostitutes are regular people not much different from the rest of us. There is a big difference and it's not good for them or for society to have so many people with broken lives out there.

Billy, just answer one question.  How many prostitutes do you know personally? 

[Misha]

Misha: “At the age of 29, she has probably been working in her profession for over a decade. … Depends on a number of factors. However, let's say hypothetically speaking that a woman has been a professional prostitute for a decade from the age of 19 to 29. This would mean that a third of her life would have been spent in the profession.”

You quote me, but I am not sure what your point is. To be honest, I don't really care if women choose to work as prostitutes, but I would not have married a woman who made a choice. In my eyes, she would have taken the easy way out. I would prefer marrying an educated woman working for minimum wage at McDonald's to the same educated woman working for $10,000 a night call as a call girl. If other men would prefer the call girl, that is their right.

[Misha]

Billy, just answer one question.  How many prostitutes do you know personally? 

So, are you going to get around to answering my one question in the other thread 

[Sculpto]

So, are you going to get around to answering my one question in the other thread 

I am getting lost.. ask it again in the other thread please.

[BillyB]

Billy, just answer one question.  How many prostitutes do you know personally? 

Zero. Not because of by chance, anybody can walk down the street or call an escort service and socialize with them, it's zero because of choice.

[Sculpto]

so how can you state with such certainty your opinions?

[BillyB]

so how can you state with such certainty your opinions?

I use the same method you use with Prez Bush and CEO's. Although I didn't spend a lot of face to face time talking to them, I just know they are doing things I don't agree with.

[mies]

mies
You usually makes a lot of good sense but, I, like Billy am not following you on this one.

thank you, and sorry if i don't make sense.
I never said that a man should marry a prostitute. But I do not agree with the arguments used by some men here. For example - the arguments stressing the type of the sex over the fact of trade "sex-money". Also - i don't see why some people struggle so much to warn others - either from happiness or misfortune. Because nobody knows what will be the future for this couple.

If this is what you actually meant

it was a reply to single post - not directly related to the topic of discussion. The whole point is somewhat dubious. On one hand - any woman could be a prostitute unless verified otherwise. On the other hand - I know that I am not a prostitute, and if my man will suspect that about my past, and will start questioning me - i will not forgive this to him. Why? Because of trust. If someone mistrust me - that's the worst offense.
All comes down to trust. You cannot really verify the past of your woman, but you have to trust her.

It appears you are missing the point with your quest to sanitize prostitutes.

I do not try to sanitize the prostitutes. I do not like hypocrisy in people. That's all. I do not even try to sanitize the hypocrisy - just pointing out that it exists.

 Who you marry a man who was a prostitute?

The man whom I married was never a prostitute (God forgive me for mentioning my saint husband in this context).

Whether I would (hypothetically) be able to marry a prostitute - I do not know. I know two men who were meeting/having sex with older women for money. They were handsome but not attractive for me in terms of personalities - too egoistic. But then - they did not love me. Maybe they act different with a women they really love. These men were seeing women for money during their college years and it helped them greatly to boost their career. They are having "honest" very well-paid jobs now. Whether they are psychologically damaged - i can't judge, i don't know them well enough. Whether they are skilled in sex better than average - I can't judge because i never had sex with them, adn also i don't know what is "average" in sex.

In my life i need a partner who would match me in talents - not necessarily same talents as mine, but be overall content and interesting person, well-educated, reading a lot, developing himself, having a wider/deeper perspective on things in life. I need to be able to talk about different things, and to share some common views. This person needs to have some profession and be earning money honest way. No diseases from the past. No side affairs in the present. More or less - this is what i need to see in my partner to be willing to marry him (hypothetically speaking - since I am happily married to wonderful man).  

[Stix]

Mies has a point. The sex acts that occur between clients and prostitutes can occur between ordinary couples who have a sexual relationship. So are we opposed to the prostitution or the sex acts? As for sleeping with strangers, one night stands do happen with people who aren't prostitutes. This brings to mind a movie from the late 90's in which a young woman performs oral sex on her dog out of a crazy one time whim and has to decide whether to tell her boyfriend. The title escapes me. I'm not arguing for prostitution or one night stands but is it the selling of sex or what happens during the selling of sex that some of us are opposed to? I know some aren't opposed to either.

My thought is that we live in societies to seek our common good; thus every society has to have some moral "norms" that define the common good. Otherwise our society would have no basis for condemning the pedophile. Yes most of the time they force their victims; but unfortunately with older children, it's sometimes just seduction and playing on their emotions, especially in the Internet age.

[Sculpto]

I use the same method you use with Prez Bush and CEO's. Although I didn't spend a lot of face to face time talking to them, I just know they are doing things I don't agree with.

LOL Nice try Billy.. but those are public figures whose actions impact all of us.  But, we are talking about individuals, some of whom are lost souls and others who could teach all of us a thing or two about life.

[GoodOlBoy]

GOB: “Has your girl ever mentioned doing any "porn" (movies, magazines, etc.)?”

Yup......Looks like you busted me Mies.

Back "in the day", I was a porno star.  :evil:

I went by the screen name "Stallion" (because of my equipment)! 

Sadly, I had to retire quite early because of an on the job injury involving my co-star's teeth.   

Now I live in Florida, on permanent disability. 


GOB

[mies]

  did i mention that i like good sense of humor?

[BillyB]

Mies has a point though. The sex acts that occur between clients and prostitutes can occur between ordinary couples who have a sexual relationship. So are we opposed to the prostitution or the sex acts?  

Stix, how many guys out there can share and accept a bunch of other guys doing their woman? There is a big difference between the same sex act by couple who are in a caring loving monogamous relationship vs. hookers and their many clients. I think most men agree that we are not disgusted if we do our business with our own wife/girlfriend but we aren't going to be happy knowing 300 other men have done it on her. We have the right to not want to associate with a woman who'll take on that many men just as women have the right not to associate with men who frequents prostitutes.

As for sleeping with strangers, one night stands do happen with people who aren't prostitutes.

With one night stands, people tend to talk first before needing to release their homomes. The reason they talk first to to get past the stranger phase. Unlike a hooker, you can't just wave money in the woman's face and say "let's go to bed".

How do we know that innocent looking woman working in your office isn't a hooker too? We date them, spend time with them, observe their behavior patterns and figure out if they have any mental issues. If there's any red flag, she may not be a hooker because of it but it's time to move on anyway.

[Faux Pas]

thank you, and sorry if i don't make sense.
I never said that a man should marry a prostitute. But I do not agree with the arguments used by some men here. For example - the arguments stressing the type of the sex over the fact of trade "sex-money". Also - i don't see why some people struggle so much to warn others - either from happiness or misfortune. Because nobody knows what will be the future for this couple.

Thanks for your clarification. In our (American) society in general, sex for money and those who partake in it are considered those of low moral character usually with much excess emotional and physical baggage. Some of those people have options for the lifestyle they chose and some do not but, it carries the same stigma regardless. That thought is an inbred thought just as the acceptance of prostitution in other lands is the norm. Who's to say which is right and which is wrong? It is societal differences.

it was a reply to single post - irrelative to the topic of discussion. The whole point is somewhat dubious. On one hand - any woman could be a prostitute unless verified otherwise. On the other hand - I know that I am not a prostitute, and if my man will suspect that about my past, and will start questioning me - i will not forgive this to him. Why? Because of trust. If someone mistrust me - that's the worst offense.
All comes down to trust. You cannot really verify the past of your woman, but you have to trust her.

Agreed. Trust is a two way street.

I do not try to sanitize the prostitutes. I do not like hypocrisy in people. That's all. I do not even try to sanitize the hypocrisy - just pointing out that it exists.

Completely agree on hyprocrisy

The man whom I married was never a prostitute (God forgive me for mentioning my saint husband in this context).

Whether I would (hypothetically) be able to marry a prostitute - I do not know. I know two men who were meeting/having sex with older women for money. They were handsome but not attractive for me in terms of personalities - too egoistic. But then - they did not love me. Maybe they act different with a women they really love. These men were seeing women for money during their college years and it helped them greatly to boost their career. They are having "honest" very well-paid jobs now. Whether they are psychologically damaged - i can't judge, i don't know them well enough. Whether they are skilled in sex better than average - I can't judge because i never had sex with them, adn also i don't know what is "average" in sex.

In my life i need a partner who would match me in talents - not necessarily same talents as mine, but be overall content and interesting person, well-educated, reading a lot, developing himself, having a wider/deeper perspective on things in life. I need to be able to talk about different things, and to share some common views. This person needs to have some profession and be earning money honest way. No diseases from the past. No side affairs in the present. More or less - this is what i need to see in my partner to be willing to marry him (hypothetically speaking - since I am happily married to wonderful man whom i love more than anything in this world).  

Your husband is a lucky man.   There are different degrees of prostitutes. But even those who are of the smallest degrees are as damaged goods as those who are of the largest degree and just as much a Prostitute. I am confidant that many prostitutes move out of the trade and move on with normal lives but likely they will still carry some of that emotional baggage. Sure some will relate and call them "ex-prostitute" yet some can still get past it. The crux here is, many many do not. I have no statistics an am too lazy to look for any but many once in the trade die either still in it or a result of it, directly or indirectly. The long term outlook does not favor these people.