not married, but question anyway

[dobradavid]

Money can drive people crazy.  I know as  I chased it for years.  But you can chase money but how you treat people should not matter how rich or poor you are (or social class and education level).  I just have a problem with prenups and it is really is a slave contract IMO.

IMO people who dislike prenups are people w/o the self-confidence to bring up the topic. 

[groovlstk]

IMO people who dislike prenups are people w/o the self-confidence to bring up the topic. 

Prenups have been discussed 1000000 times, just like age differences. Bottom line is that guys must do what they are comfortable with, it's not a one-size fits all concept.

DD, you are aware that the original comment from kievstar was written three months ago?

[dobradavid]

I have actually read somewhere, on various RW-related sites, that some of the women are "schooled" in techniques (i.e. domestic abuse allegations, etc.) for establishing grounds favorable to them in a divorce. This is only what I read, and I'm sure that it's a remote possibility, but I would hope that the number of women in this category is minimal. My bottom line recommendation is,...take the time to REALLY get to know your lady, even if it takes 3 or 4 trips to the FSU to accomplish this. Your mileage may vary.

It's more than a remote possibility. 

[dobradavid]

Prenups have been discussed 1000000 times, just like age differences. Bottom line is that guys must do what they are comfortable with, it's not a one-size fits all concept.

DD, you are aware that the original comment from kievstar was written three months ago?

What is 3 months in the overall scheme of things? Think of the Pyramids. 

[ScottinCrimea]

Good Lord, the only reason dobradavid ever pops into a thread is to tout prenups.  It seems his one and only answer to every question is, "Get a prenup."

Age gap?  No problem if you have a prenup

Can't communicate?  A prenup will solve that.

Is she a scammer?  Not an issue with a prenup.

Is she too stubborn?  A prenup will fix that.

Is she too materialistic?  a prenup will put her in her place.

and on and on........

[Turboguy]

IMO people who dislike prenups are people w/o the self-confidence to bring up the topic. 

I can't say I agree with that sentence David.   Most people don't need a prenup.   Some probably should have one.   Those who usually voice anti prenup feelings are usually those who don't need one. 

I do feel there are those who probably should have one, a small minority of those here however I think if someone is going to do a prenup it needs to be one that is totally fair, one that also protects the woman who has left her country, her family and her friends to build a new life with the guy.   Prenups that give her a one way plane ticket home and a months rent for an apartment in Moscow are total bull.  If someone want to predefine what a divorce court could be expected to give her in a divorce or more, then it may save some legal fees and hard feelings.   I think in cases of a family business, or where young children from a previous marriage exist there may be some certain cases where a prenup could be a good thing but for the average Joe with a house and a decent job they are a waste and just line some lawyers pockets with a little green.

[boaterguy]

IMO people who dislike prenups are people w/o the self-confidence to bring up the topic. 

LOL! I definately don't agree with this statement! My feelings about prenups are this-If you need a prenup then you are not ready to marry. All a prenup says to me is you don't trust you fiancee/wife!

[dobradavid]

LOL! I definately don't agree with this statement! My feelings about prenups are this-If you need a prenup then you are not ready to marry. All a prenup says to me is you don't trust you fiancee/wife!

I disagree. A marriage is NOT too people falling in love. A marriage IS a legal contract between two people with property right implications and responsibilities. Try being broke, homeless, and jobless and getting married. 

[Shadow]

I disagree. A marriage is NOT too people falling in love. A marriage IS a legal contract between two people with property right implications and responsibilities. Try being broke, homeless, and jobless and getting married. 

Many people do that.
And only if there is a very large inequality of assets a prenup will be useful.
But where to find such a rich woman. :noidea:

[KenC]

I disagree. A marriage is NOT too people falling in love. A marriage IS a legal contract between two people with property right implications and responsibilities. Try being broke, homeless, and jobless and getting married. 

Oh, you romatic devil! :evil:  Are you ambach's cousin? Good luck in your future business deal!
KenC

[Mars]

Those who usually voice anti prenup feelings are usually those who don't need one. 

Turbo is absolutely correct.

Most men here have very little to give away in divorce proceedings, so they can afford to sound high and mighty about avoiding a prenup.  Just about as silly as a man poo pooing the dangers of developing ovarian cancer.

[Vaughn]

Most men here have very little to give away in divorce proceedings, so they can afford to sound high and mighty about avoiding a prenup.

What a relief to know there exists a vehicle to relieve one's fears of marrying the wrong woman!

The high and mighty proclamation, Mars, is quite a convenient argument. Why not just come out
and say it: "I'll love you and cherish you 'til death do us part, except for the trust fund, the timeshare,
and my baseball card collection..."

How a sincere loving woman overlooks such a conditional pledge doesn't add up to me, but then
again, who am I to say what works for two partners in business?

[Misha]

Most men here have very little to give away in divorce proceedings, so they can afford to sound high and mighty about avoiding a prenup. 

True, the plebeians must woo women with their charm and wit and the women they find marry them for love. Life is really hard for us   

[boaterguy]

Turbo is absolutely correct.

Most men here have very little to give away in divorce proceedings, so they can afford to sound high and mighty about avoiding a prenup.  Just about as silly as a man poo pooing the dangers of developing ovarian cancer.

I humbully disagree. My home and land which is free and clear is 500-1mil in value depending on the market. 2nd home has a conservative 5 figure equity, 4 nice vehicles,2 boats,and many,many other things that are mortgage free!

I will concede I am in a state which doesn't start the clock on assets until after marriage. I did give up a tidy 6 figure sum to my ex wife of over 20 years but it was fair!

[RussianWind]

Good Lord, the only reason dobradavid ever pops into a thread is to tout prenups.  It seems his one and only answer to every question is, "Get a prenup."

Age gap?  No problem if you have a prenup
Can't communicate?  A prenup will solve that.
Is she a scammer?  Not an issue with a prenup.
Is she too stubborn?  A prenup will fix that.
Is she too materialistic?  a prenup will put her in her place.

and on and on........

 

I had a relationship with someone who'd been left without pants by his ex Ukrainian wife. A baby will change your prenup, want you or not... so get a vasectomy before signing anything 

[dobradavid]

Many people do that.
And only if there is a very large inequality of assets a prenup will be useful.
But where to find such a rich woman. :noidea:

LOL! I agree. 

[dobradavid]

Oh, you romatic devil! :evil:  Are you ambach's cousin? Good luck in your future business deal!
KenC

Ken,

Anyone who thinks a marriagis NOT a legal contract with property rights has never been to divorce court. 

[kievstar]

Mars and DD,  been off for the past month in Ukraine and noticed a reply to my post.

Regarding having several million dollars and needing a prenup with a RW - marriage is not a business deal.  If your a good catch, you do not need a pre nup.  If your a sorry loser and need to pay for a wife, get one. 

[RussianWind]

Anyone who thinks a marriagis NOT a legal contract with property rights has never been to divorce court. 

That's a good point  

But we also have a good saying: "Don't go to a forest if you are scared of wolves" (stay unmarried, it's safier) 

[KenC]

Ken,

Anyone who thinks a marriagis NOT a legal contract with property rights has never been to divorce court. 

Been there, done that, still have the T shirt.  You obviously don't know my story, but it is OK.

Here's the thing, David.  There are certain circumstances when a prenupt is called for.  A lot of hard assets that may be a family legacy, or a business usually muddies the divorce waters more than just about anything else except children.  But you also need to consoder that when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of any divorce, the final decision is up to the judge, prenupt or not.  It may only serve as a guide that he MAY follow.  But these things have been debated here ad nauseum.  Just know it is not bullet proof.

The real heart of this matter is that, yes, marriage is a legal contract, but that is secondary to the emotional contract you make with your future wife.  The weaker your emotional contract, the stronger your prenupt should be because the marriage is not going to last.

My Russian wife of 10 years OFFERED to sign any document I wanted prior to our marriage.  I declined the offer.  She was more than fair in our dividing of assets in our divorce.

I pity men that have to lead with a prenupt.  It is a clear sign that they have no confidence in their relationship and anticipate failure as a given.
KenC

[RussianWind]

Wise man KenC, agree with every word.

I would put it this way: "If you start thinking of prenup, better don't marry this woman"

[docetae]

Wise man KenC, agree with every word.

I would put it this way: "If you start thinking of prenup, better don't marry this woman"

In our case the prenup was asked by the french embassy....it was condition to deliver me the certificate of capacity of marriage.

[dobradavid]

Regarding having several million dollars and needing a prenup with a RW - marriage is not a business deal.  If your a good catch, you do not need a pre nup.  If your a sorry loser and need to pay for a wife, get one.

Certainly an intelligent, educated, thoughtful response to the topic. 

[dobradavid]

The real heart of this matter is that, yes, marriage is a legal contract, but that is secondary to the emotional contract you make with your future wife.  The weaker your emotional contract, the stronger your prenupt should be because the marriage is not going to last.

My Russian wife of 10 years OFFERED to sign any document I wanted prior to our marriage.  I declined the offer.  She was more than fair in our dividing of assets in our divorce.

I pity men that have to lead with a prenupt.  It is a clear sign that they have no confidence in their relationship and anticipate failure as a given.
KenC

Re: men who make statements like this. I invariably find them to have a minimal track record. 

[Andrew]

You expect a woman to leave her country, her life behind and become totally reliant on you?
In my opinion a straight forward prenup says "leave me and I will see to it that you are destitute"
If you must insist on a prenup then get a prenup with accrual. That way you're both protected with regard to whatever you had prior to the marriage and the rest accrued during the marriage gets split down the middle.
Much better idea IMO
Anyway, in my country a straight forward prenup comes with a sunset clause, which means that after a certain amount of time the prenup becomes invalid and you end up in community of property.