A woman of your age

[Misha]

Social life: again know who you are marrying. Are you ready and willing to go to nightclubs dancing. Is that what entertains her.
If you are 50 dating a 20 year old girl who goes clubbing every night, this could be a recipe for disaster alone.

It is more than a question of nightclubs. The fact of the matter is that most women in their home countries had friends their age. Rarely would they have friends much older. All of a sudden, when they arrive, they may find themselves in a social circle where all acquaintances are much older. This is something my wife and I face, even if there is only 10 years difference. Most of my closest friends are 5 to 10 years older than me, and will thus be 15 to 20 years older than my wife. Though my wife really likes them, it is disconcerting from time to time for her that she doesn't have many friends her own age as was the case in Russia.

[groovlstk]

I've had a few incidents lately that have the age gap thing in my mind.

First, I'm under a lot of stress at work and there have been several rounds of layoffs. The few hours I spend every evening with my wife is by far the best part of every day. My wife is a very active person and likes to go for walks in the evening or sit on the waterfront and talk. More and more, I find myself leaving home at 5AM so that I won't have to work into the evening and can leave at a relatively sane hour. Now, over the last 6 months on some nights I've had to push myself to stay active when I'm really tired and would prefer to sink into a sofa with a glass of wine and watch a movie together. So, I'm OK now, but what about in 10 years? In 15? Hell, I don't even want to think about 20. I know for sure my wife will take care of me and while this thought is comforting, at the same time I don't want her to have to compromise on small pleasures because she married an older guy.

Second, a few weeks ago we had a health scare. I was having chest pains and after an abnormal EKG was urged to get a stress test immediately. It was all for naught and before they even got to the imaging part my doc told me my heart was functioning perfectly. Ultimately I'm grateful for the scare because I have a clean bill of health, so it's one less thing to worry about in the near term. Throughout all this, my wife was apoplectic and white as a sheet, and it took a lot of long conversations over the next few days to calm her. Let me tell you single guys something: imagine opening your eyes at 3AM and finding your wife wide awake, with her head against your side listening to your heart beat. Sounds romantic, right? It's not - that is, unless you enjoy making the person you love most in this world sick with worry.

I'm healthy and still relatively young at 45, but I know this isn't going to last forever and at some point the two lines on the paper running side by side are going to diverge and one will start losing momentum while the other continues.

I'm sure my worries will subside in due time and like the saying goes, we'll deal with that set of cards when the time comes. Some of you may even be so adamant in your denial that you'll insist this issue has nothing to do with our difference in age, or point out that even couples the same age have to deal w/health issues. You are, quite simply, dead wrong.

These things are a big concern of mine and while I'm fully cognizant that we're all different, telling newbs that these things are no big deal is disingenuous.

[Admin]

I've had a few incidents lately that have the age gap thing in my mind.

First, I'm under a lot of stress at work and there have been several rounds of layoffs. The few hours I spend every evening with my wife is by far the best part of every day. My wife is a very active person and likes to go for walks in the evening or sit on the waterfront and talk. More and more, I find myself leaving home at 5AM so that I won't have to work into the evening and can leave at a relatively sane hour. Now, over the last 6 months on some nights I've had to push myself to stay active when I'm really tired and would prefer to sink into a sofa with a glass of wine and watch a movie together. So, I'm OK now, but what about in 10 years? In 15? Hell, I don't even want to think about 20. I know for sure my wife will take care of me and while this thought is comforting, at the same time I don't want her to have to compromise on small pleasures because she married an older guy.

Second, a few weeks ago we had a health scare. I was having chest pains and after an abnormal EKG was urged to get a stress test immediately. It was all for naught and before they even got to the imaging part my doc told me my heart was functioning perfectly. Ultimately I'm grateful for the scare because I have a clean bill of health, so it's one less thing to worry about in the near term. Throughout all this, my wife was apoplectic and white as a sheet, and it took a lot of long conversations over the next few days to calm her. Let me tell you single guys something: imagine opening your eyes at 3AM and finding your wife wide awake, with her head against your side listening to your heart beat. Sounds romantic, right? It's not - that is, unless you enjoy making the person you love most in this world sick with worry.

I'm healthy and still relatively young at 45, but I know this isn't going to last forever and at some point the two lines on the paper running side by side are going to diverge and one will start losing momentum while the other continues.

I'm sure my worries will subside in due time and like the saying goes, we'll deal with that set of cards when the time comes. Some of you may even be so adamant in your denial that you'll insist this issue has nothing to do with our difference in age, or point out that even couples the same age have to deal w/health issues. You are, quite simply, dead wrong.

These things are a big concern of mine and while I'm fully cognizant that we're all different, telling newbs that these things are no big deal is disingenuous.

groov,

You are crossing into a different territory. Yours is a focus on your partner based on your love and concern for her. That 'normally' does not enter into the equation until long after a relationship is formed - THOUGH IT SHOULD.

One of the things I MOST enjoyed about member LP's posts at Planet-Love was that he is a died-in-the-wool analytical. He micro-analyzes everything, and he does so proactively. He, more than anyone I have seen on these forums or in this endeavor, argued vehemently about the importance of a guy looking ahead 5 - 10 - 15 - 20 years into the future, and to OBJECTIVELY examine the lifestyles and impacts on BOTH parties.

For my part, it hurts me deeply on those occasions when Olya and I talk about such things, and we both must face the very strong likelihood (near certainty) that I will be gone and not around to be supportive of her as she grows old. While there are countermeasures (insurances and such) it is just not the same.

It was quite poignant when, about a year ago my 90-year-old mother had serious heart problems and was going in for a procedure that might have easily taken her life. My dad leaned over her - both extremely frail - and kissed her briefly - but intimately as they have done thousands upon thousands of times in the past. My mom knew my dad loved her - no matter the outcome. It is almost certain that I will not be there to provide Olya that support when she needs it in her old age - and even writing this, it hurts to realize it, and pen it.

Guys (and their gals) really do need to think about these things - far in advance - and in consideration of feelings and realities they may only be able to project, because they are not real just yet. But when they are, it can be a tough reality.

- Dan

[BC]

Scott I thought your post was very thoughtful and helpful to those entering this arena for the first time. You raise some very solid questions. I go back to something Jolly said on a different thread, about being in the same stage. I also might wonder out loud if the specific ages matter. I mean is, lets say, 37 year old male with a 22 year old wife, both with no kids, never been married, still in the height of thier careers the same as a 30 year old woman who is marrying a 45 year old man? I am not sure. Now of course the 37 year old man will be 45 at some point in time, but if the 45 year old man in the second scenario has 4 kids from a previous marriage does he really want more? In this second scenario the children issue is going to be a major issue.

Remiel,

There are many, many ways to justify this or that.. apply Occam's Razor and it boils down to this.. is a large age difference relevant to a relationship or not?

Most around here say it is at least relevant or maybe very relevant and includes many aspects of life together.

A very few, like TG will say that for him it is irrelevant.. so be it.  He also believes marriage is a 'potluck' affair anyway so what the heck.. he has the financial capability not to have to worry about that aspect.  They also seem not to have a desire for children so strike another aspect.  There remains many more though that just haven't raised their head yet.

but do read on..  

BC, I have just been in enough age gap relationships that it is not something I think is that important.   Lot's of people do think it is important or even critical.   That is fine.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  

Yes, we know you got exactly what you wanted, and that was a relationship with a woman much younger than yourself.

My beliefs are this:

Most women and lots of men are not comfortable with it.  That being the case they won't get into one at all and that is fine.

The vast majority of men and women have no experience with such other than their fantasies.

If the woman is going to have problems with age gap they will appear before marriage assuming the couple spends some time together.  

False IMHO.. the 'honeymoon period' can last several years.  Proof of your theory is when the sh!t hits the fan.

If two people marry they won't change that much in the early parts of a marriage, lets say for 5 or 10 years.   There is a likelyhood of problems as the man gets really old.  If a 45 year old man marries a 25 year old woman that is not going to be for 25 years or so.   Still this can be an important issue and I think there is something to be said for the Shelf life theory.   Age gap marriages can have a shelf life and it may possibly be shorter the older the man is.  

Did you add correctly?  45 +25 does not equal 70?  70 IS OLD.. no getting around it.  When is your due date?  When do you hit 70?

If a woman marries a man for a Visa or is basically a GCW it will be a train wreck and any age difference they have is immaterial.

In reality a true GCW is quite rare..  a simple scammer will have much more financial success. - Irrelevant.

That the critical thing is not the age difference it is compatability.   Age difference very often can be a reason for compatability problems but the underlaying problem is not the age difference it is the compatability.   This can be a real problem in an age gap marriage.  If your life styles, goals and ideas of what your life should be are different then that is something that anyone should think long and hard about.

1 + 1 will always equal 2.. now we can discuss all day long about which '1' should come first and if there is any difference involved with the result..  May I ask how many long term relationships your wife has had with men your age?  You both may have reached compatible ground somewhere in the middle and that's quite fine but in the end one or both are pushing yourselves to this goal.  I think you will find it gets tiring after a while trying to fit the other's 'mold'.

Issues involving parenthood can be a problem.  It possibly was one of the important factors in KenC's divorce and also in Jack's case.  In our case we had long discussons about this issue and I see zero probability of it creating a problem for us.  It is something that anyone entering an age gap marriage should think long and hard about.   Women can change their mind about wanting kids, particularly as their biological clock starts to run down.

Is your wife still 'ticking'?  Never say never...  

Personally I think people are very different.   A few years ago here a UW living in America who I know and who was a little upset with me over what she felt I had done to her came on here and posted for a little while.   What I had really done was bent over backwards to try to help her.  It was someone who I had written to when she was in Ukraine.  She married a guy, moved here and got divorced.  She sort of felt he was too old for her.   All he wanted to do was to sit in front of the tv each night, drink martini's and watch the tube.   She wanted a more active lifestyle, to go for romantic walks and such.  She was very interested in persuing me.   She felt her husband was too old as I mentioned.   I was 10 years older than her ex.  Personally I think people are all different and some are much younger acting than others and that can be a factor.    If someone feels old, looks old and acts old they probably should not think about an age gap relationship.

Tried to fit the mold this woman held?  For what reason? - naa.. forget it..

Sure some old folks are more fit than others, but they all are OLD..  At your and even my age things are way more likely to happen overnight.  KenC seems to be a reasonably fit man leading an active lifestyle, just ask him.  I'll let you know my experience when it happens (and it will one day or other).

BC, it could have been worse, at least from the standpoint of those who think age gaps are critical.  I briefly mentioned the lady from Donetsk who was my backup when I met my first fiancee.   She and I had about a 43 or 44 year age difference.

A 'backup' is a far cry from walking down the aisle. - 'could have, would have' again quite irrelevant.

Scott mentioned that at the two year point in his marriage that he was as happy as VWRW and I are and felt that the same applied to KenC.  Personally I doubt it.   I really think very few couples are as happy together as VWRW and I are.  I don't doubt that they were happy, but I do doubt that they were as happy as we are.

As far as any problems the age difference has caused for us, absolutely nothing in our relationship together.   The only times anything came up is one kid in Granada selling jewelry, and one old lady in Grenada who we bought Mango from who referred to her as my daughter which we laughed about.  We have had long discussions about the real problems that can come from an age gap marriage and deal with those issues as best we can.   I do think VWRW is a little more focused on being independent in case something would happen to me than she might be otherwise.  I don't see that as a problem.  It is just dealing with life's realities.

 

Yeah.. knowing that one will be well taken care of after our demise is indeed a comfortable goal.  One thing is sure, our wives won't be rocking on the porch thinking about joining us after our demise.  Maybe they can meet on the French Rivera surrounded by young studs.

Personally, I am not sure what constitutes success.   Is a marriage that is good for 9 years and then ends a failure?  I am not so sure it is.   I guess it depends on if the 9 great years are worth the pain and heartbreak when it ends.   I can recall being in the office of a business owner who after 18 years in business had gone into bankruptcy.  He was crying his eyes out and talking to me about what a failure he was.   I had to think of the 18 years he provided a valuable service, employed lots of people and made a good living.   I was never sure if the tears were over the failure or the fact I was holding a bad check that could have been big problems for him.  Whatever it was I ripped the check up and wished him the best.   What is success and what is failure?  Can they really be defined or is it like an accounting balance sheet.  It is the moment that counts.  Todays success is tomorrows failure.  Was the film camera a success?   Was KenC's marriage a success?  Both are dead now but I think both were a success.  

Actually KenC's marriage was indeed a success.. and sharing his experience here over the years is not only bold but extremely valuable for those like myself that are in such relationships.  Sure opened my eyes a bit more..

BTW film camera's are still quite popular and I even see a 'comeback' down the road.  It still is the tool of choice for many professionals.  Consider tube amplifiers, vinyl records, all still going quite strong.

[Gator]

Groov,

Your thinking is valid, yet I see nothing to fear in your married life.  In my opinion, this is nothing more than you getting a preview of the inevitable at a time when earning a living is stressful.

You are under a lot of stress as many people are during this prolonged and deep recession.  Your wife has not worked in months, so she is probably worried about the future.  The news from her parents about the FSU economy is not uplifting either.

Then you get a health scare.  And FSU women are conditioned to think that many men die early.  So she gets more worried.  She does not want to lose the man she loves.  And if you were to die, what would happen to her.  If I were in her shoes, I would not sleep.   

Whether your chest pains were induced by stress or eating that second tortilla, the key point is that your doctor says your heart is normal.  And even more important is the fact that your wife cares, really cares.

I would say that you had something to worry about IF SHE DID NOT WANT TO SPEND TIME WITH YOU.  That is not the case.

Your situation does remind me of what I find is the biggest flaw with a loving,  age gap relationship.   

Men die before women anyway, and to speed this by 15 or more years because of an age disparity means the wife will be alone when she has many years left to live.   There needs to be some plan that provides for her when the man kicks the bucket.

That is why many RW insist on earning a living even though family financial assets enable her to stay at home. 

For those without adequate longterm financial resources, perhaps one should make some plans about insurance. I am not sure if that would frighten  a wife into thinking thather husband is hiding some medical info from her, or whether it would comfort her.   

[Turboguy]

Groove,  Since I have walked the road of life a little longer than you I have some first hand experience what getting older is like and it is far different than you think it will be when you are a lot younger.   You do have to work at staying fit than you do when you are young.  I have no doubts that you won't have any problems going on long romantic walks 20 years from now.   You may not want to go jogging with her but getting older doesn't mean totally falling apart.   Your career may be a little less stressful at that stage of your life as well which may help you feel more like doing those things.  Relax and enjoy life and spend all the time you can with your wonderful wife.  It is the most special and wonderful thing and you are doing everything right and will be fine.

[sunandsail]

Groov said:

These things are a big concern of mine and while I'm fully cognizant that we're all different, telling newbs that these things are no big deal is disingenuous.

Newbs / lurkers likely mostly see what you see too Groov.

Turbo appears absolutely sincere in stating that in over 4000 posts he has had zero concerns about age.  I can understand  other posters getting realllyyy frustrated about this.  While Turbo's reasoning may make little sense to me, he isn't going to change his mind is he?  The man seems very likable.  I can only wish him well. 

Turbo - one suggestion (since you seem such a nice guy).  When you question other poster's personal experiences - it really comes off bad:

<i> ("...he was as happy as VWRW and I are and felt that the same applied to KenC.  Personally I doubt it."  OR - "Personally, I don't think age had anything to do with their divorce".)</i>

You simply can't know - no need to go there.  I believe you are happy.  Don't tell someone they weren't.  I believe them too.  If someone says age factors were part of a problem they had - they probably were.   It isn't a comment about your relationship - it is about theirs.

My favorite quote of this miles-long thread goes to BC:

<b><i>I give up fighting those on the endorphin trip..  never had much success beating sense into someone that is intoxicated anyway.</i></b>

[BC]

My favorite quote of this miles-long thread goes to BC:

<b><i>I give up fighting those on the endorphin trip..  never had much success beating sense into someone that is intoxicated anyway.</i></b>

Now if I could only learn to heed my own advice.... LOL!!

btw there is a good thread here with some similar quips you might enjoy:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=10134.0

[Turboguy]

A very few, like TG will say that for him it is irrelevant.. so be it.  He also believes marriage is a 'potluck' affair anyway so what the heck.. he has the financial capability not to have to worry about that aspect.  They also seem not to have a desire for children so strike another aspect.  There remains many more though that just haven't raised their head yet.

I always find it interesting that those who feel it is critical are those who have no first hand experience.   Those with experience seem to often say they are a fluke and everyone else should do what they say and not what they do.   If I thought marriage was a "potluck" affair I could have married some of the women I chose not to.  I was looking for someone special and ended up with the most special woman in the world.  My view of my financial capablitiy is far different from your view of my finances.   My income is in 5 digits and not even a high 5, I just live within my means.  Actually, I have never mentioned it here but like KenC had a bit of a finacial crisis myself that about coincided with VWRW's arrival.  Hopefully it is under control now dispite the recession.  

[BC]

I always find it interesting that those who feel it is critical are those who have no first hand experience.   Those with experience seem to often say they are a fluke and everyone else should do what they say and not what they do.   If I thought marriage was a "potluck" affair I could have married some of the women I chose not to.  I was looking for someone special and ended up with the most special woman in the world.  My view of my financial capablitiy is far different from your view of my finances.   My income is in 5 digits and not even a high 5, I just live within my means.  Actually, I have never mentioned it here but like KenC had a bit of a finacial crisis myself that about coincided with VWRW's arrival.  Hopefully it is under control now dispite the recession.  

Turbo,

Your words not mine..

I think marriage to anyone is like a pot luck dinner.  You might like what you get and you might not but all the factors you are talking about are not going to tell you what you are going to get.

BTW, did you ever hear anything again from Photoguy?

[Turboguy]

Groov said:

<i> ("...he was as happy as VWRW and I are and felt that the same applied to KenC.  Personally I doubt it."  OR - "Personally, I don't think age had anything to do with their divorce".)</i>

You simply can't know - no need to go there.  I believe you are happy.  Don't tell someone they weren't.  I believe them too.  If someone says age factors were part of a problem they had - they probably were.   It isn't a comment about your relationship - it is about theirs.

Sun, thanks for the comments and the nice things you said.

I think if you reread what I said, I did not say that KenC and Scott were not happy, just that they were not as happy as VWRW and I are.   I could be wrong.   I just think marriages that are as happy as we are together are scarecer than hen's teeth.  Personally I never believed anyone could be as happy as we are together, and of course that is at this stage.   Perhaps in a couple of years we will hate each other but I don't think so.  

[Turboguy]

BTW, did you ever hear anything again from Photoguy?

Yes, I hear from Doug once in a while.  He is doing fine.  I am not sure if he will ever get completly over Larisa.  I think she will have been the love of his life and it is sad that it did not work out.  He is burying himself in his work and has an amazing talent and I belive the last I heard was dating a local RW.

[Gator]

Turbo,

Your words not mine..

BTW, did you ever hear anything again from Photoguy?

 

BC, you have a memory for words almost as incredible as Sandro's memory for breasts (or whatever he uses to find DoubleDealers).

[Turboguy]

Did you add correctly?  45 +25 does not equal 70?  70 IS OLD.. no getting around it.  When is your due date?  When do you hit 70?

Far too soon BC.   Two years and two months.   Not sure when I will get old though.

Age is relative BC.

To a 10 year old, 16 is old, 7 is young.  
To a 16 year old, 25 is old, 12 is young.
to a 25 year old 45 is old, 18 is young.
To a 65 year old, 80 is old, 45 is young.

To quote a former salesman of mine.   "You are only as old and the woman you feel"

[Turboguy]

1 + 1 will always equal 2.. now we can discuss all day long about which '1' should come first and if there is any difference involved with the result..  May I ask how many long term relationships your wife has had with men your age?  You both may have reached compatible ground somewhere in the middle and that's quite fine but in the end one or both are pushing yourselves to this goal.  I think you will find it gets tiring after a while trying to fit the other's 'mold'.

Is your wife still 'ticking'?  Never say never... 

Yes, as far as I know my wife is ticking.  I never said said she couldn't change her mind.  I said we had discussed all possibilities and were in complete agreement and it will not be a problem for us.  It will NEVER be a problem for us.

There is nothing tiring in our relationship and we don't try to fit each others mold.  We just live a happy life together.

I dated my share of older women as well and age one way or the other was not a big deal to me.   Age is just a number and if my wife had been 10 or 20 years older than she was I could have fallen in love with her just as easily.   When I did the last search I was targeting 35-45 year old women and was not writing anyone under 30 and was even writing one woman who was in her 50's.   I came across one profile that was so special that even though I had a rule that I was trying to stick with of writing no one under 30, that profile was so special that I broke my own rule and wrote and the rest is history.

[ECOCKS]

The role of the board is to give advice and reflection upon the process of dating FSUW. It's always a shame when one group, or even an individual, has their defenses activated and the discussion then becomes full of I and we, often on both sides.

My advice to those contemplating this subject is to read the more rational threads which discuss this and ignore the ones citing/defending personal situations except as truly illustrative anecdotes. Be honest with yourself, what can you tolerate from society and your friends (and their wives)? How will your wife react to a life like you lead at home versus the life she sees from "the other side of the pond"? Look ahead a bit and see what is the likely path your lifestyle will lead to in 10 years, 20 years, etc. There is a lot of reality which interferes with the romance and adventure when you date an FSUW, get used to it.

[ScottinCrimea]

I'm seeing some here make the argument that the solution to the age gap issue is to find someone with whom you are compatible, no matter the age.  That has merit, but the whole point of the life stages issue is that, over time, people change.  Their goals, needs and desires change as their experiences, health, financial situation, etc. change.  Now if the couple can change in the same ways at the same time and at the same rate, that's great, but the larger the age gap the less likely that this will happen.

If we're talking about someone in their 20's I think all of us who have passed that age know that change at that age is inevitable and more rapid than when older.  I certainly look back at myself at 25, when I thought I was sure of what I wanted, and wonder what the heck I was thinking.

It seems to me that the most rapid changes occur when we are either very young or very old - the acceleration of youth and the deceleration of old age.  This is why those age gap relationships where both are in the middle ground seem to work.  It's when one is in the area of rapid acceleration while the other is not, or when one party enters the stage of rapid deceleration, that the problems occur.

I could possibly find a 20-something with whom I am compatible now, but will that compatibility still be there in 5-10 years as she goes through those early, more rapid changes?  Assuming we survive that hurdle and settle into the middle years, what happens when I reach that stage of rapid deceleration?  Her goals certainly
won't include feeding me pablum and changing my Depends.

[Journeyman]

Here is another study on age differences in marriage.  Probably not dispositive of anything, but might contribute something small to this never-ending debate (I've not read the whole thing yet).  However, it appears to be focused not on RW-WM marriages, but on WM-WM marriages (in Great Britain). 

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/articles/population_trends/PT132AgeDifferencesArticle.pdf

The synopsis of the study reads as follows:

This article explores the age difference of
marrying and divorcing couples, calculated
by subtracting the wife’s age from the
husband’s. Age difference is of interest
in the study of families and partnership
behaviour. It is also important because of
its link with broader socio-demographic
changes, such as population ageing, delayed
fertility and the provision of care.
The main finding is that between 1963 and
2005, the distribution of age differences
for all marriages is very similar in each year
to the distribution of age differences for
the subset of couples who married in that
year, but have since divorced. While there
is some evidence of small variations in the
proportion of marriages that end in divorce
by age difference, there does not seem to be
evidence of a strong association.

[GQBlues]

Personally, I am not sure what constitutes success.

I believe this is the bigger underlying pre-occupation most AM/RW get tangled up with with their respective relationships...probably rightfully so, yet I think the definition or interpretation of it is where a few differ. Boethius actually wrote a poignant sensible post in this thread about this matter. Even GOB layed out a nice polling thread specifically to gauge the overall membership about their perspective on what constitute 'success'....

I believe there is a very straight line that connects this question from.."did you make the right decision with the person you chose to be your partner in life?" That Q can easily get lost in trivialities but I do believe it plays quite a bit in everyone's perception of 'success'.

I do have concerns about the age difference with my wife but maybe I'm looking at this from a different perspective/compliment.

Since I got married, I have been headstrong in making sure my wife became a full, well-balanced, independent, person within my marriage. I needed to make sure, as part of my devotion to her and our marriage, that at the very least, what she reaps in her decision to marry me is acquiring every opportunity we can muster for her to become a complete, well-established, balanced person in addition in sharing a loving existence together in the interim.

In my eyes, in what I see in other marriages that failed, more times than not people speaks of these past relationships as something in line with it being one of the biggest mistakes they ever did. I was always mystified how two people who decided to share, spend, and devote on average 10% of their total time existence in this earth - end up as being labeled a wasteful mistake.

Anyway, yeah, tell me I'm in denial, it'll be no skin off my nose. Today, my wife is well-established with a degree as a Financial Analyst. At the present time, because this line of work is 'slow' because of the recession, she was hired by an Accounting firm and is paying her a surprisingly higher rate while she waits until her learned profession opens up. In the meantime, she also wanted to take the opportunity to enroll herself on an online course in pursuit of acquiring CPA certification since she felt that the time she's spending working on an accounting firm is netting her very valuable experience in somehat another field of profession.

If my mortality hit us suddenly, there will be at least one thing I can deal with with ease - my wife's ability to look after herself on her own.

If someday my wife changed her devotion towards me, I've not much of an ego to believe that I am the 'best' man around for her. That is not mine to declare. That's solely her own discretion. I've done all that I can do, if that's not good enough, well - I know I did my best.

There's a whole lot of situations that can happen to us in the future, some of which we can control but there will be ones we cannot - that's life.

But to worry about something you're not even sure will happen, and be obssessed of its consequence today, seem to me more than being premature, I think it's being paranoid. So I would rather take a different path... I wanted to insure both of us are equipped with the best possible options no matter what.

Once you begin to really love someone, does it not also become 'unconditional'? Most of the very best, trusted friends in my life today are those whom I had intimate relationships with in the past. A couple of my God-children ar children of my ex-GFs. To me, this is one of the most gratifying appreciation I can ever experience in my life. Even my wife, being a Russian woman, understood the root of this affection. She never laid an ounce of doubt about my association with them because she understands me and how I am so much more.

Knowing you've become a loving principle part of their lives. Isn't this the purest definition of 'success'?

[KenC]

This might be the best age gap thread ever IMO.  What makes it so valuable is that most of us are objectfully discussing the potential problems in a reasonable not argumentative manner.  Please let's keep this on the high ground.  We have had valuable input form those currently in an age gap marriage and a few of us that have "walked the walk."

I always find it interesting that those who feel it is critical are those who have no first hand experience.   Those with experience seem to often say they are a fluke and everyone else should do what they say and not what they do.  

Turbo,
That simply is not true.  Scott and I have come to some surprisingly similar conclusions regarding our past age gap marriages.  No one refutes you and your wife's current happiness.  At the same time, it is not a competition either.  For you and others to make statements debating what did or did not happen in our respective marriages is simply ludicrous.  No one lived Scott's or my life other than us.  No one spent more time analyzing our past marriages than we have.  I would think our opinions on this subject are of great value.
KenC

[Turboguy]

The purpose of this post is mostly to apologize and a bit to explain but before I start I do want to comment that I agree with you Ken that your experiences and opinions are of great value. 

First off I want to apologize for saying that Ken's and Scott's marriages were not as happy as VWRW and mine at the 2 year mark.  I never intended that as a negative comment towards either of you or your marriages.  I meant it more as a positive statement about mine.  I will agree that I was not there and I haven't the foggiest idea how happy your marriages were at that point but I sure can't refute your statements that they were very happy.

I think sometimes we look at things comparatively.   Someone who lives in the Arctic Circle and moves south to Kansas might think the winters are hot.   A pro race car driver probably feels like he is poking along at 100 miles an hour.   In my first marriage that lasted 18 years it was about like spending 18 years in a dentist chair.  There was a little happiness in my 2nd and 3rd year and the rest of it was miserable.  I can't even remember my wedding night as being happy.   Sometimes when I am with VWRW I think back to how miserable I was in my first marriage and how I enjoy every second with VWRW.   It sort of makes me feel like no one in the world could have as wonderful a wife or be as happy in a marriage as I am.  Anyway I do apologize for my comment, it is just that I don't see how anyone could be this happy and not that you two were not or actually could not be.  Sorry guys.

[Faux Pas]

This might be the best age gap thread ever IMO.  What makes it so valuable is that most of us are objectfully discussing the potential problems in a reasonable not argumentative manner.  Please let's keep this on the high ground.  We have had valuable input form those currently in an age gap marriage and a few of us that have "walked the walk."Turbo,

I second that KenC. It has been an excellent thread. I of course have nothing to offer it in the way of any experience and don't expect to but I am filing away for future reference. BTW I thought your much earlier post about your personal experience concerning where you actually are 10 years down the road pulls a good bit more weight than the counter arguments posted thus far. Keep it up guys
 

[BC]

I think sometimes we look at things comparatively.   Someone who lives in the Arctic Circle and moves south to Kansas might think the winters are hot.   A pro race car driver probably feels like he is poking along at 100 miles an hour.   In my first marriage that lasted 18 years it was about like spending 18 years in a dentist chair.  There was a little happiness in my 2nd and 3rd year and the rest of it was miserable.  I can't even remember my wedding night as being happy.   Sometimes when I am with VWRW I think back to how miserable I was in my first marriage and how I enjoy every second with VWRW.   It sort of makes me feel like no one in the world could have as wonderful a wife or be as happy in a marriage as I am.  Anyway I do apologize for my comment, it is just that I don't see how anyone could be this happy and not that you two were not or actually could not be.  Sorry guys.

Turbo,

May your feelings of bliss not be outlived, Sincerely.

You are a 'stand up' kinda guy, evidenced by your apology and that's a big plus in this venture, but just remember (and has nothing at all to do with your marriage) that generosity and openness are often not fully appreciated and often misused, misinterpreted or misleading.

I asked KenC about his feelings back then and now regarding age difference, and would like to ask a couple now..  - If you took a look at the 2005 thread I mentioned upthread, would your support of PG's quest (also with a notable age difference) be any different today? 

How do you rate the 'board consensus' provided for your and PG's unsuccessful K1's?.. (not for result, but advice provided)

[KenC]

Turbo wrote:

Personally, I am not sure what constitutes success.

And then GQ:

I believe there is a very straight line that connects this question from.."did you make the right decision with the person you chose to be your partner in life?" That Q can easily get lost in trivialities but I do believe it plays quite a bit in everyone's perception of 'success'.

I do have concerns about the age difference with my wife but maybe I'm looking at this from a different perspective/compliment.

In my eyes, in what I see in other marriages that failed, more times than not people speaks of these past relationships as something in line with it being one of the biggest mistakes they ever did. I was always mystified how two people who decided to share, spend, and devote on average 10% of their total time existence in this earth - end up as being labeled a wasteful mistake.

Try as I might, I cannot look upon my 10 years with Lena as a mistake.  Maybe my position is factored by my always being a "glass half full" type of guy, but so be it.  I can be much more open minded about it all now because the trauma of our break up has subsided.

Of course I am disappointed that it didn't last forever.  FYI, Lena feels the same.  We are still surprisingly close (something else I never thought possible post divorce) and in some unusual form still love each other (again a mutual feeling).  Not as lovers or husband and wife, but as two people that shared 10 years of their life together and still have tremendous mutual respect for one another.

If some view that as a failure, then so be it.  No, we did not stay together until death do us part, but neither of us would have changed much except the eventual separation.
KenC

[Turboguy]

BC, I will post the first part of your question about PG first and I am busily replacing some ballasts in the lights in my office so I am posting when I take breaks.  I will answer the second part on my next break.

Personally I think whatever the board told PhotoGuy it would not have made a difference.   I do think PhotoGuy was not helped by the board and there was more harm done than good.  He started off concerned about his relationship.   From that point he was clue batted far more than anyone should be.  His gal was called trailer trash and I think it made him more determined and more defensive than anything. 

There are all kinds of people in the world.   RW are supposed to gravitate towards strong men.  PhotoGuy was more the artsy, sensitive kind.  I think you could beat on Scott or KenC and they would just dish it right back and not do any more than get po'd but I think PG was not that kind of person.  Personally I think the advice he was given was spot on but the way it was delivered was a board failure.

Someone can call me anything they want and say anything they want and it is not going to get me upset.  I do tend to get upset when someone treats someone else badly and PG was treated badly.  I probably would have been far less supportive had the help been in a more constructive and helpful way and not with all the insults and name calling.   One way or the other it was something that Doug would have never settled for anything but seeing it through and seeing what happened.  Sometimes you have to take the plunge and PG had to take the plunge.   Everyone was right in his case that part was spot on.  Doug has talked about going back to the FSU but I doubt that he ever will.  I think he still sits around trying to figure out what went wrong or what he could have done differently.  Doing a K-1 with a woman you have never kissed is not a wise move.

Ken, I never considered your marriage a failure and I am sure you would not trade the wonderful years for the empty years it would have been without her.