Who comes first: Spouse or children

[Blues Fairy]

Oh, she certainly does advocate this - she even says no dating until the kids are 18.  The reason is precisely because of this type of situation - your kids see you living with, and raising someone else's kid, and resent it, and the stepchild living with that parent sees different treatment, usually the result of guilt.  

Wouldn't it be wiser to advise such parents to work with their guilt feelings so as to minimize the differences in treatment of the kids from both marriages?  Otherwise, what prevents the first-marriage kids from getting used to being sacrificed for, and cheerfully riding on their guilt-ridden parent's back well into their adult years?

I think this Dr. Laura is doing a lot of damage by her advice. 

[KenC]

BF,
Well, I sure am not any angel! :evil:

Boethius,
Having gone through this, I am of the opinion that the intitial divorce was the most traumatic event in my childrens lives, not the events that followed.  In fact, my son moved in with me as soon as it was possible.  He also paid me the highest compliment when I visited with him a few moths ago.  He told me that he had had the perfect childhood and that I was most responsible for it.  Not so "crappy"in my book.
KenC

[Boethius]

Ken, were you remarried, or living with someone when your son lived with you (befpre your son turned 18?)  Were you raising someone else's child?

[Misha]

The bailing comes not from the divorce (as yes, I recognize he can't control this), but in remarrying before his kids are grown.  

Does this logic apply only to men?

[Boethius]

No, it applies to both parents. 

[Misha]

No, it applies to both parents. 

So, women such as Doll should never get married after a divorce until their children are fully grown? And, the same would be true for men? That would certainly make for a pretty small dating pool if you were to take out all the divorced parents looking for love 

[Boethius]

You can look for love once your children are grown. 

[Ludmila]

Hi,

This thread "Who comes first is very wide", raising quite a few crucial points that may ruin a marriage, relationship, love between the partners, if not addressed properly and duly or not considered timely. Very important for both who are seeking, and married ( men and women).

IMO, those who seek, better define  yourselves your tolerance level towards your future step child. The fact that it narrows the number of your potential   candidates does not mean you should go for it. Find yourself a lady w/o a child.
If she doesn't put her child first ( it isn't hard to understand for a mature man), she is probably focused on her own persona, not you, in any case. Motherhood is natural   for a woman. SHE IS NOT A MAN. You may argue here ad nauseum, but it won't change her nature much.

On the other hand,  love and uncompromising devotion for the   husband  is a MUST without concessions.

As to that particular situation,  avoid getting phone calls  when they can wait a while ( no one will die, if you return the most urgent call in an hour). So simple !

The Woman cannot forget: the MAN is her husband and soulmate, plus he takes care of her.

The Man cannot ignore that if the Woman has kids, ESPECIALLY from her previous marriage, there is no way they will be auxiliary to her. That kid needs twice as much dedication from his new father, than the father's own kids do. Both because it isn't only trauma, a priori, he got due to the parents' divorce, and because mama has a new husband , who isn't his father. There will always be a probability that there will be thoughts "on the child's subconsciousness"...... ( esp if it is a male child).

A son of the woman from a previous marriage ( unlike a common child born in the marriage) is a very subtle situation requiring a lot of effort  both on the part of the partners, and, yes,the child himself .

If not addressed properly, the "latent" competition/ rivalry is inevitable.

It will take a lot of WISDOM, PATIENCE, WORK, SACRIFICE, FROM BOTH, TO MAKE IT WORK. THIESE AREN'T WORDS. THIS IS VERY HARD WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The reward: the Man and the Woman  will have a family, life partners and a kid/friend in the future.  It will be a win/win situation.

In all this argument A GOLD MEAN  is the key factor. Loving and caring step father, but not at the expence of his dignity. Loving and caring mama, but not to the point  when the child becomes controling her and the safety of the marriage.

I believe Doll is a loving Mother and Wife. And I have great respect for her. Her son is 16 years old-- crucial age for a teen. HE NEEDS HIS MAMA AS NEVER BEFORE (but, please, let him wait till mama is ready to do it). Plus she has another son, is an experienced Mother with very good results as a parent.

BF, with all respect,  I'd wait till you are ready to talk about the  results   of your parenting effort. As you rightly said,  so far, "you are hoping......" that your kids will be what you want them to be. I sincerely wish you success in this-- oh, so far from being easy-- a matter.

 We love you because you are men, you love us because we are women. There is MAN'S prospective. There is WOMAN'S prospective. Do not ever forget it, if you want to be a success.

[Ludmila]

Sorry, misprint, please, read " perspective".

[I/O]

You can look for love once your children are grown. 

:whirling: Boethius: I have come to enjoy your posts as informative and well thought out but I am sorry to say, you have lost the plot on this one. The notion is utterly ridiculous in the extreme. I have not read Dr Laura's book and if this is an example of the thrust, the hell like I would ever read it.

Stop and think logically about what you have just said. And...................yes I will cite my wife as an example. She made an error of judgement and trusted a man who took her for a ride due to her youth and naivety. When we met she had a 1 1/2 YO child who knew no father. She was 22. Are you seriously suggesting she should have spent the next 18 years (until she was 40) alone? As that tennis player so often screamed at the linesmen, "You can't be serious"..!!! You are advocating her punishment for an error of judgement at a young age being the sentence of 18 years romantic solitude.

Futher, please demonstrate to me where this child whom I have grown to love to the extent I have less desire to have children of my own than I once did is worse off by me being in his life? The subject of further children is a matter my wife and I are discussing at the moment and we are in accord but the jury is still out. Most likely yes, but it is not set in concrete. Everyone within the families on both sides has commented that our union is the very best thing that ever happened to the boy. Your suggestion is this should be denied.

I note your "religious" comment elsewhere and although I don't aim to second guess what that might be, your posts are indicative to an extent. One of the most famous unions of ancient times was a situation where a man was commanded by a higher power to take a wife who was bearing a child of which the father couldn't be identified in his "manly" understanding and at very least, not his child. Was that OK? If so, at what age is the point where it becomes not OK? When the child is born? When the child is 2 or 6 or 10 or........?   

[KenC]

Ken, were you remarried, or living with someone when your son lived with you (befpre your son turned 18?)  Were you raising someone else's child?

Yes, and she had a boy and a girl too.  Hers were 8 & 10 and mine were 15 & 17 at the time.  My older daughter was not too affected as she was away at college during this time.

It was very very difficult but doable.  I treated all the kids equally to the extreme.  I built a home during that time with 4 very equal bedrooms for the kids even though my son was only with us on every other weekend and my daughter was rarely "home" from college.

The girls (oldest/youngest) were no problem at all.  The boys were a challenge.  My son was very fearful of losing my affection to the other boy.  I overcame this by a lot of father/son activities specific to his interests.  While her son was a master manipulator of his mother which caused some additional friction.  All in all it was difficult and not perfect but eventually everyone took their place in the blended family.  We all were better for being together than not.  The tricky part is in making each child feel special in their own way.
KenC

[GQBlues]

You can look for love once your children are grown. 

LOL.

I believe Dr. Ruth need to invite Dr. Laura over for tea sometime. Much to discuss, you see...

[Doll]

Plus she has another son, is an experienced Mother with very good results as a parent.

Thank you! I am really blessed with the sons- both are bright and loving.
Hope there is my humble contribution to them.

[Gator]

I still fail to see why the roles of the husband and the child in my life should be different just because they are not blood relatives to each other.

Easy if all you consider are their roles with respect to you and only YOU (which I presume from your phrase in my life). 

Yet, in a functional nuclear family, there are three interactive players – husband, wife, children.  Do you see a difference in the roles between the stepfather and stepchild vs. father and child?

I still assert that BALANCE is the operative word.

I doubt that many men are capable of maintaining psychological pureness if they have to make major personal sacrifices for their kids.  Inevitably they'll harbor resentment.   

Inevitably they'll harbor resentment?   

Sacrifices will need to be made for the welfare of the child.  Many of them unplanned.  It is part of life.  I consider it my responsibility as a parent.  Sometimes I surprise myself with what I have done.

I very much doubt that a loving father harbors resentment.  My father certainly did not.  Why would I?

[Blues Fairy]

Easy if all you consider are their roles with respect to you and only YOU (which I presume from your phrase in my life).  Yet, in a functional nuclear family, there are three interactive players – husband, wife, children.  Do you see a difference in the roles between the stepfather and stepchild vs. father and child?

In the context of the OP's question, there is no difference.  The husband is still my husband and the child is still my child, no matter how they are related to each other.

Inevitably they'll harbor resentment? Sacrifices will need to be made for the welfare of the child.  Many of them unplanned.  It is part of life.  I very much doubt that a loving father harbors resentment. 

Gator, you are quoting me out of context again.  We were discussing the idea that a loving father should put his personal life on hold for the sake of the children.  That's not the kind of sacrifice that, I imagine, can be made without any resentment deep down. 

[GQBlues]

Thank you! I am really blessed with the sons- both are bright and loving.
Hope there is my humble contribution to them.

Doll-

I have been following your story in this thread as it piqued my interest. I hope you don't mind me asking so, understanding that your son is now 16 years old; how does he interact towards his social environment outside the family zone? How is his problem solving faculties? Do you detect a strong pronation to be independent?

I can fully relate to your son, based on your story here. But the only difference is that my two other brothers were younger than me, full siblings for Mum and Step-Pop. Step-Pop was NEVER strict towards me. It was actually the exact opposite. House rules didn't apply to me - that really sux!

[MR01]

Doll, you might want to get your husband a copy of Steve Biduplhs book - Raising Boys. I found it very useful.


http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Boys-Different-Become-Well-Balanced/dp/158761328X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256623475&sr=1-1

[Doll]

I hope you don't mind me asking so, understanding that your son is now 16 years old; how does he interact towards his social environment outside the family zone? How is his problem solving faculties? Do you detect a strong pronation to be independent?

What is "pronation"?
The boy is a very popular guy in school due to his friendly personality and intelligence. He has many friends, a girls friend and is very successful in sport.
He and I try to keep this problem  "low", skip it.
I don't know yet about his independence- he is too young. Yet, he works, already drives. This is everything the young man can do so far.

[Gator]

Blues Fairy,

I am not trying to argue with you, just seeking clarification from a new mother.

In the context of the OP's question, there is no difference.  The husband is still my husband and the child is still my child, no matter how they are related to each other.

After reading this post and the one I quoted, it seems to me that in your constructed family model the wife is the center with serious communication between husband and child/stepchild routed through the wife.

My belief is that both parents are the center as a united front.  The key word is UNITED. 

My wife and I discussed the concept of UNITED FRONT at length, and practiced it before getting married.  Maybe I am lucky because she and I are indeed united.  I read AJ, Scott, Doll etc. and see possible situations I could not tolerate.

My wife and I have some differences.  IMO she favors the boy somewhat when there should be no favorites.  I try to catch the kids doing something right and praising them, while she tends to focus on their mistakes.  However, when mistakes are made, I probably react too much.  She is more bark than bite.  So far, I am happy with the situation.  God is still not finished with the kids' development. 

Gator, you are quoting me out of context again.  We were discussing the idea that a loving father should put his personal life on hold for the sake of the children.  That's not the kind of sacrifice that, I imagine, can be made without any resentment deep down. 

Of course, the demands of family life will leave less time for a man to pursue his personal interests.  Same with the wife.  If this creates resentment,  they should never have married.   
Family life brings new joys, creating a tradeoff

Strive for B-A-L-A-N-C-E

What am I missing?

[Jazzyclassy]

I have not got kids yet , but i think children come first,  but you need to think of what will be better for them.
Though you should not forget about yourself , if you are lonely and depressed and not loved you can not give your children love and happiness they deserve. So if there is an opportunity to meet a prospective kind father/mother for them , i do not think it should be a disaster.
There are people who sacrifice their lives for their children, they concentrate only on their children's needs and they live only for their sake, which is also wrong, so obviously it should be a balance like in everything else in this life.

At least people should aim to reach this balance.

[Blues Fairy]

After reading this post and the one I quoted, it seems to me that in your constructed family model the wife is the center with serious communication between husband and child/stepchild routed through the wife.

My belief is that both parents are the center as a united front.

How did you get the idea that in my model, I made the wife the router of all communication between husband and kid?!  Please reread my first reply in this thread.  

The idea of a united front is very nice, but I think parents should not avoid any disagreements between each other at all cost.   It's actually beneficial for the kids to observe an occasional respectful argument between their folks and learn the arguing and compromising techniques.  Also, it's very beneficial for a kid to be able to negotiate an issue with one parent without having the other parent immediately jump in and crush him with the authority of a "united front".  A family should consist of individuals, not fronts.   

Of course, the demands of family life will leave less time for a man to pursue his personal interests.  Same with the wife.  If this creates resentment,  they should never have married.    
What am I missing?

You're missing the context, again.  We were discussing Boethius' (or Dr. Laura's?) idea that a divorced parent should wait to pursue any personal life until the kids are grown up.  

Of course, doubtless, naturally, sacrifices can and should be made.  But some sacrifices are completely unwarranted and can bring nothing but resentment.  

[Simoni]

To answer the OP's question, the spouse comes first.

The relationship between the man and women is the foundation.  Work at keeping it strong, and the children will have the best life possible.

[GQBlues]

What is "pronation"?  The boy is a very popular guy in school due to his friendly personality and intelligence. He has many friends, a girls friend and is very successful in sport.

Maybe I just created a word. LOL. I was trying to suggest ' an inclination to, or a tendency to, a yearning for '....

Doll, based on what you said that easily tells me you struck a balance in how you managed your domestic situation. Good for you and I'm happy for your kid.

As for sports, especially team sports, I'm not sure how much parents understand how sports can influence a child beyond the sheer exercise. Team sports have a lot of significant factors that can greatly influence a child's upbringing and life's association.

[greg2654]

To answer the OP's question, the spouse comes first.

The relationship between the man and women is the foundation.  Work at keeping it strong, and the children will have the best life possible.

On an intellectual level I agree but when kids enter the scene, that changes. Maybe not in mens eyes but it does in womens eyes.

When it comes to kids intruding in our lives, get used to it. It'll happen from the day they're born until the day we die. The thing is not to try and resist it but work with it or around it. Kids bothering you during sex? That's so old it's a cliche'. Mama will take care of the problem but if you want the "Love Boat" to come back and pick you up later, don't complain too loudly. Remember, she was disturbed also.

School trouble, girl trouble, kids stupid buddies, work problems, kid get married, kid gets divorced. It NEVER ends and it's always an inconvenience. My wife and I are always there for each other but kid problems usually trump my problems. Be part of the solution.

[OlgaH]

To answer the OP's question, the spouse comes first.

The relationship between the man and women is the foundation.  Work at keeping it strong, and the children will have the best life possible.

Here I agree with you and Marc Rudov  

Children don’t ruin marriage, unless their parents give them the power to do so. Spouses ruin marriage — way before they become spouses — by believing that children belong at its center.

So, don’t get married until you have enough maturity and conviction to treat your spouse as the most important person in the world — above and beyond your children — and receive the same treatment in return.

Why Children Ruin Marriage
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/05/17/why-children-ruin-marriage-marc-h-rudov/