Why are some members on here, arrogant?

[Handycam72]

 
Handycam: I really don’t know what you’re trying to achieve here. I honestly didn’t think your other thread was too bad. I thought it had value. You’ll need to learn to take the rough with the smooth both here and in this ca aper generally. This thread in and of itself is indicating an inability to do so. Something to think about.
 

I/O: Thank you, its good to know that you appreciate my previous thread and its value. As for this thread, I wanted to highlight that there is a minority who feel they are above all others in their attitude, especially towards new, less experienced people. They are quite happy to throw insult after insult and belittle the new guy. I expect to get flamed occasionally, but to make belittling remarks and insult someone just for the sake of it, IMO is pretty arrogant.
 
 

Easy to say but not always as easy when the delivery of the message sucks. If someone gave me advice with a hint of an insult or in a way it belittles me, I'm not going to attack the advice, I'm going to attack the messenger for bad attitude. Call me stubborn but I won't put up with that.
 
Why does it have to be this way? Bad delivery of words don't work with your husband or wife and it won't work with other people. If a person is trying to give good advice and he fails in the delivery of it and fails getting the intented target to listen to the advice, then he failed at his objective. I don't like to fail. Some guys need a few good solid reasons or real life experiences why the advice is good. Some guys need a gentle push in the right direction, others need a kick in the butt to wake them up. One style of delivering advice does not work for all.
 

I agree with you on this, I feel it is the delivery of the message that can sometimes cloud the point that is being made. Each person responds to advice in different ways.
 
 

Handycam's original thread is a case in point.  Was he mistreated by the young fsu girl?  Yes.  Was she some level of a pro-dater?  Again, Yes.  Everyone has heard this story a hundred times and were kind of sleepwalking through the thread.  IMO, the bigger picture and the much more important lesson to be learned is for mature men NOT to allow this to happen to them.  The point that a 36 yo man allowed a teenager to have total control over him in hope of getting a little from her.  Yes, these girls are out there and be prepared to spot them, BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE HAVE FULL CONTROL OVER YOURSELVES TOO.

I agree with what you say here Ken, I should of taken more control. Lesson learnt.
 
But I will disagree on your comment "Everyone has heard this story a hundred times". A case in point is the new member Timothy, who before reading my previous thread had never even heard of the Pro-Dater before. It was for this reason I gave the detailed account of my mistakes for others to learn from and make sure they do not make the same ones, now if someone reads it and sees  themselves doing just part of what I have done, but yet still continues to carry on and then gets shot and burnt, well I guess there is little hope for them. Would you agree?
 
Now from what I can tell, you have been on this site a good few years so have seen these mistakes been done time and time again to a point where it seems its like a broken record and I am sure it must irritate the hell out of you, but I feel you need to put yourself in the new guys (Often rational normal Guys) position who only probably has maybe 1% of the knowledge and experience you and others like you have with regard to the FSU relationships.
 
 

I think HandyCam has walked into an area that has some validity to it.
 
Firstly, those who are jumping all over Handy need to take a step back or in the very least give a little slack to the next guy. Some people live on message boards, emails and the like and other's are just on a novice level. I think Handy is somewhere in the middle and like so many others simply didn't explain himself thoroughly enough (initially)... this is where you message board pro's, guru's,etc need to chill a little before jumping on the implode button... feel the poster out a little before you hit the self destruct.
 
Now as the topic that got this ball rolling.... "arrogance." The majority of posters on here are pretty helpful and/or sincere in nature however there are a select handful who seem to gorge themselves on linguistic attempts to elevate their own ego's and self worth. While I wouldn't say that these select posters are in fact arrogant I would say the more appropriate label would be something that lies between obnoxious and self enamored. Then again we all have own ways of how perceive people, such as I've always found it insulting when a poster finds the inexplicable and consistent need to include his handle at the end of his posts. To me it simply smacks of either ... you're so enamored with yourself that you need to bring special attention to your postings or the poster thinks so highly of himself that the common reader is seen as so beneath them that the reader can't possibly comprehend that the name in the top left corner is the one who is making the post.... seems so self righteous and shallow to me or more simply put, sad... but as I said, that's to me, perhaps not to anyone else.
 

Since I'm obviously sitting comfortably atop my ivory tower I'm going to touch on what is the true derivative to what HandyCam mentioned as I think it's prevalent to the numerous discussions on this board and other FSU related boards. There is a change swirling through this world of FSU dating and the once proud and fearless leaders of the FSU pursuit are now becoming outdated. The "old guard" who toiled through antiquated mail order services, poorly managed websites,etc.. had to endure far more disadvantages then someone like myself who is getting stuck in at a time where "the search" is far more user friendly. This leaves the old guard feeling slightly jaded towards those who are venturing into a far more user friendly experience. Knowledge on most if not all aspects of the FSU search are plentiful and easily obtained to those who are willing to look, where as the veterans had to really roll their sleeves up and dive into a far darker world of unknown variables.... this brings forth the atmosphere of arrogance that HandyCam eluded to. Using myself as the example as someone newer and fresher then the old guard, I do have to admit that I don't give full credibility to the old guard. Times are a changing and whether it's from a political or technological standpoint our FSU search and it's subsequent situations aren't going to be nearly as the same as the old guards. Additionally, in regards to posting on here and other boards far too often I see the old guard as taking that same traveled road when trying to interact with the younger newer guys on the scene. I won't finger point but take a look around and you'll see the old guard going through the motions... cutting and pasting the same old tired lines and inserting them into a new discussion.... the newly created topics change and the inner lying variables change but the responses are the same old lines taken from one topic to another. I will put myself forward and state that I'm apart of this new guard coming into the light. My experiences, communications, travels, etc... have been and are going to be more far more different then the old guard as the new guard are simply more mobile and more in touch with today's world. Now, if you're looking for a woman who is over 45 then this is where the old guard still holds it's validity (let me state there is absolutely nothing wrong with a search for a FSU lady over 45). However, the new guard, as stated are more in touch... we text, facebook, blog, download/upload, etc... our information is finger tips away from our phones to our computers. Our street language is spoken all over the world and our street smarts come from streets that stretch throughout the globe. Granted you don't have to be young or apart of the newer guard to hold these advantages but it's pretty obvious on many levels that we as a group are simply more advanced and educated to the streets and the world then the old guard and while this doesn't put us in a role for instant success we are however better armed for success.
 
Now I'm not saying the above holds true for each and every poster & lurker (for the record I lurked the *snip* out of this place before I started posting here) and there are some personal issues within others that give off this arrogance but the majority are either new or old guard. While I don't foresee everyone or even anyone agreeing with me, there is a change of tide around these parts and those who are joining in on the search are bringing something new to the table.
 

I agree with some with what you say here Global. I wouldn't say the "Old Guard" need to move aside to make way for "New Guard" so to speak, as I feel we can all learn something from each other, no-one knows everything, there will always be someone who knows something that you don't. So we can all learn that little bit more from each other. In fact I would go as far as saying the "New Guard" could learn a hell of alot more from the "Old Guard" than the "Old Guard" will ever learn from the "New Guard".
Just some of the "Old Guard" need to learn how to point their point across in a less belittling and arrogant way.

[GlobalEuphoria]

Who is this "we" you refer to in your post? If I were to generalize in turn, I would say that for men who allegedly so "advanced and educated" they seem to be repeating the same old dumb mistakes. You can tweet, blog and facebook all you want, but if you can't tell whether a woman is into you on the first date, Wikipedia won't help you. The mistakes that men make are tied to one fundamental issue: they are infatuated with women who are not into them and think they can somehow magically change this by spending money on her or by trying to cater to each and every one of her whims. It never works. The only question is how far they will be taken for the ride. From what I have observed, the "new guard" isn't a whit better in this regard.

Not a chance. There will always be suckers but you're going to start to see less of them... at least in the more youthful catagory. The older guys will always see situations as they want to and not how they are.

   People make this whole process out to be rocket science... women are women all across the world, I meet all sorts through the FSU dating sites and right here at the clubs and bars. If you have some street smarts and common sense, it's not going to be hard to put aside the pro daters/scammers.  I consider myself lucky as I grew up in an area that was fast and rough with the biggest teacher being the streets. I'm not perfect but it's going to take one of the best to fool me.

   Also in regards to the new guard (stupid name but I don't what else to lable such people)  I'll use myself as an example again. The whole statement of being in touch with the newer ways of technology and life really does go a long way. I'm planning on going over two times in the next two months. I'm not seriously deep into each of the women but I grabbed myself 45k in frequent flier miles in 2 months by spending $200. That's a free ticket to hopefully my step mother Russia. I totalled 80k in miles in four months so my next flight is going to be for another $200. I grabbed some tickets to see two KHL games for pretty cheap and I work for a major hotel company so my room cost less then $70 for four total nights.  All in all, I get to chill in Russia, see a few hockey games, meet some interesting ladies and all for under $500. If I wind up paying for a pricey dinner or two, big deal..something soft on the eyes while I dine isn't such a bad thing.  There's a lot of people who are young and get how to travel and to be mobile in todays world. Big companies hand out these miles and points like candy, if you're plugged in you can visit any spot in the world for cheap and with ease.
  

[Gator]

GlobalEuphoria,

Speaking of arrogance and self-enamored, you have given a fine demonstration.  In fact, I would label what you have written as puffery, all from someone who has never gotten on a plane and faced a pretty RW.

Yes, times are a-changing.  One change is that RW are more like us than ever.

I certainly see that the new approaches and ways facilitate how boy screens from thousands to contact a few dveys.  Here’s news for you:  that has always been the easy part, and I would think your novel approaches would make it even easier.

Next comes the hard steps.  Please tell me how your new tools enable and facilitate any better the following:

-  Analyzing the correspondence and conversations with RW.

-  Sorting through the noise, excitement and confusion surrounding a cross-cultural, romantic meeting?

-  Comprehending a RW’s degree of interest and sincerity?

-  Deliberating about whether to start a serious relationship?

-  Identifying, defining and resolving differences and  misunderstandings?

-  Progressing through the engagement, petition, marriage and adjustment phases?

-  And in your words, not seeing  "situations as they want to and not how they are."

Looking back at my experiences, I would say that these steps were not very complicated.  Then again, common sense is not common. 

However, I don't know that you are yet serious about this endeavor.  You sound very much like the wave of businessmen who parade through the FSU, pausing only for sex.


Our old guard methods are only workable for 45-yo RW!?  Perhaps I should have focused on that age range.  However, I will tell my 34-yo wife about that, whom I met 7+ years ago.  Incidentally, the watershed event in our relationship came when she dumped in a royally dramatic fashion an AM only 4 years older than her.  I guess he did not have access to your technology.  BTW, one of the traits she did not like about him is that he thought he knew everything.

Good luck with your trip.  Please let us know how it went.  If all goes well, you should package your services for a fee.  Frankly, i will be surprised if we hear from you.  Please make me eat my words. 

[Dave13]

Global, The best of luck with your trip!

Dave

[KenC]

 
I agree with what you say here Ken, I should of taken more control. Lesson learnt.
 
But I will disagree on your comment "Everyone has heard this story a hundred times". A case in point is the new member Timothy, who before reading my previous thread had never even heard of the Pro-Dater before. It was for this reason I gave the detailed account of my mistakes for others to learn from and make sure they do not make the same ones, now if someone reads it and sees  themselves doing just part of what I have done, but yet still continues to carry on and then gets shot and burnt, well I guess there is little hope for them. Would you agree?

Yes, I agree that the story cannot be told too often.  My bad.
 

Now from what I can tell, you have been on this site a good few years so have seen these mistakes been done time and time again to a point where it seems its like a broken record and I am sure it must irritate the hell out of you, but I feel you need to put yourself in the new guys (Often rational normal Guys) position who only probably has maybe 1% of the knowledge and experience you and others like you have with regard to the FSU relationships.

 Handy, it was not the content of the story as much as your delivery of the story.  It seemed very one sided to me, in that you did not accept any accountability for what happened to you.  The reason the teenager was able to take advantage of you day after day after day, was not her high level of scamming skills but your total reluctance to react to very simple tactics she used.  Ever hear the saying: "Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me."?
  

I agree with some with what you say here Global. I wouldn't say the "Old Guard" need to move aside to make way for "New Guard" so to speak, as I feel we can all learn something from each other, no-one knows everything, there will always be someone who knows something that you don't. So we can all learn that little bit more from each other. In fact I would go as far as saying the "New Guard" could learn a hell of alot more from the "Old Guard" than the "Old Guard" will ever learn from the "New Guard".
Just some of the "Old Guard" need to learn how to point their point across in a less belittling and arrogant way.

  The tactics and ways to search for a RW has improved light years from 10 or 11 years ago.  It is infinitely easier now.  That being said, and as Gator posted, is the easiest part of this .  It still boils down to the basics, reading and understanding people.  I see as many "new guard" trainwrecks as I did "old guard" trainwrecks.  And this thread is about a man's inability to react and not allow a young RW lead him around by his pecker.  And THAT my folks, is a story of the ages.
KenC

[Turboguy]

I don't necessarily disagree, but things were a LOT rougher then than now.  There is no comparison in degree between what is being said here and then.  One other point I would make is that there are two sides to every debate.  You say it was a PG/TG "bashing", and I would say that a group of passionate members tried in vain to help another member avoid making some huge errors in judgement.  And that his ignoring of those errors brought upon his complete failure in the goals he set.
KenC

I will agree that things were rougher then.  Passionate is not quite the word I would use to describe the people who directed the comments to him.  PG is a great example in the effectivness of the clue bat.  After all he quickly cancelled his K-1 app and forgot about Larisa didn't he?   I still feel that had people disucssed the concerns he had with a little civility there might have been some good come out of his participation here.   Instead he was attacked mercilessly and was like a rat trapped in a corner.   He was just driven by those attacks into what turned out to be a big mistake.   Someone who says a man's woman is ugly is not passionate.   Someone who says a man's woman is trailer trash is not passionate.   I am not sure what they are but passionate is not even a close word.

[KenC]

Turbo,
I agree that many were over the top (including me) with their "advice" to PG.  But I really blame you and your fellow cohorts that encouraged him that his plan was viable to begin with.  In trying to be the nice guy, you misled him up into thinking he was doing the right things and he wasn't.
KenC

[SMS60]

Handycam

The horror!!! How could you???  Arrogance here????...... Yes, but in a different way.

I wouldnt call it arrogance. I think the term ego would be a better description. Like a pissing contest. Lots of men need to stroke their egos. What better place than here.

You take me for example. My opinions are usually dismissed. Im considered the peanut gallery. Why?? Because I dont have my profile filled in. I dont show trips or talk about my personel life. I just give my opinions from life experiences. But it is not relevent since I have not made 20 trips or have married 5 RW. I find humor in it. How in the hell does anyone know if the information in the profiles is true. Very niave at best. Your opinions are dismissed with the questions........ how many trips have you made??? or not being married ????or get your butt on a plane

Some men make these statements but dont a clue about the poster they are questioning. Pure speculation.

Dont allow it to bother you Handy. If you step back and look at the big picture it is very sobering. PS dont take advice from a man who has made over 25 trips. I would venture to say he does not know what he is doing. Too many failures.

Cheers
Peanut gallery member SMS60.

[Gator]

Someone who says a man's woman is ugly is not passionate.   Someone who says a man's woman is trailer trash is not passionate.   I am not sure what they are but passionate is not even a close word.

Its called beyond the pale of decency.

I missed the PG story.  Must have happened in my year+ hiatus between RWG and RWD.  Hope PG, wherever he is, has recovered. 

[Gator]

Your opinions are dismissed with the questions........ how many trips have you made??? or not being married ????or get your butt on a plane

Yes, but you keep asking questions and don't get offended, visibly.  Your attitude is perfect.  BTW, I don't recall that your opinions were dismissed, so maybe you are too sensitive or I have too little empathy.

Gator, 25+ trips. 

[BillyB]

Anyone that posts is going to receive response.  Whether or not to let the response get under their skin is either:

A. Looking at an issue that requires reflection
B. Taking his/herself a way too seriously, after all RWD is a slow moving, recorded open chat.  Expect some crap along the way.
C. Not utilizing their choice to ignore.

I think we are seeing things differently. You see people attacking the advice which can be assumed a guy can't handle the truth but I see people attacking the delivery of the advice which is normal human behavior to shoot back once being fired upon.

Most of the time I see  the OP(original poster) go on the attack not because he can't handle the advice or truth, but he/she felt they were attacked first. Then we have finger pointing accusing the other to have started the war. Next we have threads calling out another poster for their bad behavior.

If two people gave advice, one saying the woman is a scammer because she does a,b, and c to you and the other person saying she is a scammer and you are a dummy for being involved, most of the time I've noticed the OP, whoever that may be, does not attack everyone giving the same advice. He/she will attack just the poster who put him/her down or basically attack their character with innuendos. Whether or not we think we put him down we too have to look at ourselves in the mirror. If the message was delivered with what we felt as an insult, would we put up with that if said to us or our lady or do we accept it and say we deserved it any way the advice is thrown at us?

Here is a short thread that I could have been accused of hurting the feelings of a noobie with a wake up call kind of post. If he told me I insulted him, I would have apologized because I do realize with some people, it would have been offensive. I would then try another method to get him to see the light instead of accusing him he has acceptance problems and character issues he needs to take a look at. Why? Because it's my goal to help him instead of getting into a shouting match.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=10615.0

[I/O]

Turbo: I came in right on the end of the PG bashing and to be frank there was far more pursuit of entertainment value among the bashers than there was passion for his well being and success. Dress it up how you like, a lot of it was utter BS. Having said that, PG always set himself up for it as he knew everything and would never take any advice. Defensiveness isn’t the best trait in this pursuit. I tired of his rot also. Interestingly, he came back later seemingly more clued in.

Global: Your initial post in this thread had a lot of merit but then you went on to kind of stick your neck out to be chopped off and rest assured, in due course, chopped off it will be. You’re holding the axe BTW,

BC: You are absolutely correct, some things never change. I’ve mentioned my parents too many times to count. They were licking stamps 55 years ago and licking stamps is just as valuable today. It will trump any electronic communication hands down if you are talking romance.

KenC, Gator and the rest of us (I call myself somewhat old guard now as it is near a decade since my first tourist trip to Russia). Back up a bit guys, the game HAS changed and it HAS changed dramatically, particularly recently, whether any of us like it or not. I sure as hell wouldn’t like to be starting again now with the knowledge I have. I’d want to up the anti quite a bit. And…………..I’d wager I’ve spent as much or more time in Russia and other countries than most.

The marriage agencies, romance tours and so forth are pretty much a joke among younger RW these days. A few (very few) are accepting and supportive. Dating sites are struggling (Listen to Elena’s comments not so long back on 60 minutes, even she remarked on sales downturn and hers is doing as well as most). Social networking sites are the order of the day globally now. I can’t be bothered, put up a profile on facebook and hardly ever go there but the reality is, the modern’s live there (or similar sites). Russia has a proliferation of these and RW are all over them like a cheap suit.

The technology Global mentions plays a much larger part than many guys want to imagine. Guys see “themselves” as key to this pursuit and the reality is they are not. The women are. The “Oldest Guard” often said, men propose and women dispose. On that point, NOTHING has changed. RW (And other FSUW) are as adept with the modern technology and social interaction sites as anyone out there. I’d wager more so actually. Therefore guys, your target market has changed its thinking and way of doing things.

Economics have changed dramatically of recent times (Not sure if it will stay that way or not). The majority of Russians are simply NOT INTERESTED in what USA, AUS, UK or anywhere else has to offer these days. Some still are but not in the numbers we once saw. Not by a long chalk. Not to push this sideways, but the “Bush” years added to the Russian lack of interest in what USA and by default her allies have to offer (I don’t happen to agree with the sentiment but I recognise it exists).

The embracing of communications technology together with the historical street smarts of RW combines to make some modern RW much more dangerous (and subtle) animals for the uninitiated than was once the case. Warning sounded to those who would rely on yesteryear as being adequate knowledge or street smarts.

KenC: Your carry on with Handycam has been out of sync with your usual style which is firm and carries substance for the most part. These posts didn’t carry anything (for the reader) other than you trying to make the guy out to be a fool (which he may well be, I don’t know) and he could well have returned fire by saying you’re no different other than the time it took to play out. Regardless of your opinion of his thread, there were several experienced members (including myself), some with very recent on the ground experience, who saw value in it as it stood. I don’t think you’re seeing the whole picture at the moment.

Warning for the old guard: Believe you can pick it on the street and survive based on your experience whilst dismissing the new guard input at your peril. Warning to the new guard: Ignore the experience and the lessons it has brought the old guard at your absolute peril. The bottom line is, don’t speculate too much beyond your experience. I see both old and new doing exactly that at the moment.

[KenC]

KenC: Your carry on with Handycam has been out of sync with your usual style which is firm and carries substance for the most part. These posts didn’t carry anything (for the reader) other than you trying to make the guy out to be a fool (which he may well be, I don’t know) and he could well have returned fire by saying you’re no different other than the time it took to play out. Regardless of your opinion of his thread, there were several experienced members (including myself), some with very recent on the ground experience, who saw value in it as it stood. I don’t think you’re seeing the whole picture at the moment.

I/O,
You are more than welcome to disagree or discontinue reading my posts if they are not up to your standards.  I have explained my position rather clearly IMO and having been to Russia recently has absolutely nothing to do with it, if you understood it at all.
KenC

[GlobalEuphoria]

   No disrespect but I'm not going to chop up all of the numerous reply's into individual quoted reply's... I'm just wakin' up and the coffee n' red bull haven't kicked in yet.

   To answer Gator... I have been over... twice... I just chose not to fill that section out in my profile.

   And for the record, I don't know why a few of you think I'm going to come back with my head off it's neck or tail between my legs. I may not land a wife right away but I have and will continue to meet some cool people and that in it'self is worth my initial efforts.  I never once made claim of being perfect, soon enough I'm going to come across a lady who knows my achielles heel but I'd like to say I'm savy enough to get through/around it with minimal adverse effects.

    

[I/O]

having been to Russia recently has absolutely nothing to do with it

Ken, if you seriously believe that you are missing a very important point. BTW, this has nothing to do with whether or not your posts are up to "my" standards. My comment was regarding your standard of post which has dropped. There was a time when they were exemplary and substantial.

[Admin]

Taking this in a slightly different direction, reading through these posts reminded me of an old topic found here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=4269.0.

For some reason, I get reminded of the scene in 'A Knight's Tale' about the need for 'Patents of Nobility' - or another way of thinking about it is 'RWD Cred.'

In any case, it seems there is ALWAYS tension arising from perceptions of another's possession, of lack of, credibility.

Wish we could all get past that and focus on asking, and answering, sincere questions without the need to bash or impugn or ridicule or malign or disparage or insult or belittle or diminish anyone else for any reason.

- Dan

[BC]

I will agree that things were rougher then.

A little yes, a lot no.

Passionate is not quite the word I would use to describe the people who directed the comments to him.  PG is a great example in the effectivness of the clue bat. After all he quickly cancelled his K-1 app and forgot about Larisa didn't he?   I still feel that had people disucssed the concerns he had with a little civility there might have been some good come out of his participation here.

Some good did come about from his story if one takes the time to read them: - Never think you are the 'exception' and 'power of the bush'.. great lesson for any newbie.  As the other 'pea in the pod', were you able to assist him? Do you place responsibility for the demise of his 'ambivalent' relationship on the board?

Instead he was attacked mercilessly and was like a rat trapped in a corner.   He was just driven by those attacks into what turned out to be a big mistake.   Someone who says a man's woman is ugly is not passionate.   Someone who says a man's woman is trailer trash is not passionate.   I am not sure what they are but passionate is not even a close word.

Turbo,

You keep bringing up the wayward actions of a very few, that are long gone.  Do they haunt you so, even today?  PG was a driven man and absolutely nothing would stop him, much like in your own follow-on saga.

Surely I don't want to rehash it all again, but it seems you fail to recognize or state some very important facts when making comparisons with RWD today.

[GlobalEuphoria]

Global, The best of luck with your trip!

Dave

  Thanks.... best of luck to you with your future endeavors.

[ConnerVT]

Wish we could all get past that and focus on asking, and answering, sincere questions without the need to bash or impugn or ridicule or malign or disparage or insult or belittle or diminish anyone else for any reason.

Why, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, you pointy headed little...         

[Turboguy]

Turbo,

You keep bringing up the wayward actions of a very few, that are long gone.  Do they haunt you so, even today?  PG was a driven man and absolutely nothing would stop him, much like in your own follow-on saga.

I missed the PG story.  Must have happened in my year+ hiatus between RWG and RWD.  Hope PG, wherever he is, has recovered.  

I think the reality of PG was that it was something he needed to see thorough for his own peace of mind.   I agree with you he was a driven man, just as I was with my first fiancee.  

Personally I think there may have been a small window of opportunity to save him early in his posts but that is speculation and probably the odds for it were pretty tiny.  Any support I gave which were mainly a reaction to the abuse he was getting was in no way encouraging him down a hopeless path.  The only hope in his situation would have been some logical, friendly and well meaning discussion early after his trip.   Even then I doubt it would have changed things.  

Has he recovered?  I think about 90%.  I think it was not an easy recovery.   He was head over heals in love with that girl.   Unfortunately I don't think it went both ways.   I think too his profession worked against him a bit.   Not because his income wasn't there but because it did require some overnight travel and Larisa sitting home alone for a few days during her 90 day visit didn't help.    Did anyone notice he popped in and made a post a week or two ago?  

Does it haunt me even today?   Yes, a little but but I don't exactly lay awake at night thinking about it.  I just think it was one of the few low points of RWD.   No one should be treated that way.  I don't think the threads on  RWD had any effect on the outcome for him good or bad.   I just think RWD is capable of being much more than a place for the practice of sport abuse and humiliation.   I am glad that it nearly always is.  

RWD has been a tremendous help to me and probably the finest learning tool on the internet for learning about RW.  I think we all need to work together to keep it on a level where people can post without fear and information that can help someone learn is not buried and lost among insults and hot air.

[Gator]

I may not land a wife right away but I have and will continue to meet some cool people and that in it'self is worth my initial efforts.

Excellent!  Such an attitude will result in more interesting experiences and eventually a far better decision than a compulsion to find a pretty wife. 

I never once made claim of being perfect,

It certainly impressed me as a "know it all," perhaps deriving in part from my misperception that you have never been to the FSU.

soon enough I'm going to come across a lady who knows my achielles heel but I'd like to say I'm savy enough to get through/around it with minimal adverse effects.

Care to share unless it is personal?

    

[BC]

RWD has been a tremendous help to me and probably the finest learning tool on the internet for learning about RW.  I think we all need to work together to keep it on a level where people can post without fear and information that can help someone learn is not buried and lost among insults and hot air.

I agree with you TG, and a while back I even took a look at the beginning of 'those' threads.  PG was greeted quite well, as is my experience with any new member that comes along.

I think as long as one doesn't try to blow smoke up the ol'chute there won't be any problem at all.

[Turboguy]

Yes, I agree.  Actually I was looking through his early posts right after I made my last post.  I think the threads where it got nasty are gone which is probably for the best anyway but I agree.   There were no problems until he made his trip to Kiev to meet Larisa and then posted his concerns about the meeting.   He really should have moved slower, gone back to see her again and make sure that she was really into him and really wanted that.  The K-1 is not a way to see if you want to marry someone as we all know.  The course of action he followed wasn't the smartest but the way some tried to "help" him was pathetic. 

I also agree that most always new members are treated fine unless they are way out in left field or try to blow smoke someplace they shouldn't.   A few members can make a big difference in the attitude of a place.     

[groovlstk]

There is a change swirling through this world of FSU dating and the once proud and fearless leaders of the FSU pursuit are now becoming outdated. The "old guard" who toiled through antiquated mail order services, poorly managed websites,etc.. had to endure far more disadvantages then someone like myself who is getting stuck in at a time where "the search" is far more user friendly. This leaves the old guard feeling slightly jaded towards those who are venturing into a far more user friendly experience.

This assumption is incorrect simply because there are no clear lines dividing the "old guard" and the new - the only true lines of division are those who are married or engaged vs. those who are still searching. There's a lot more fluidity to this process and plenty of men, myself included, began searching when there were very few options outside of the agency and tour scenes and eventually married in the age of skype, text messages, and nonstop flights between JFK and SVO.

What changed during this period? Technology and logistics made things easier, but the advice I picked up here prior to my first trip didn't become less relevant.

BTW, I'm still waiting for a one-week-wonder to cite texting and skype as reasons why he didnt have to make followup trips prior to getting engaged, but I'm sure that's on the horizon, too

[KenC]

Yes, I agree.  Actually I was looking through his early posts right after I made my last post.  I think the threads where it got nasty are gone which is probably for the best anyway but I agree.   There were no problems until he made his trip to Kiev to meet Larisa and then posted his concerns about the meeting.   

Let me correct your memory just a little.  PG posted his T/R expressing quite a few concerns regarding her lack of interest in him.  He then had Dan remove the entire T/R only to rewrite another where it was love at first sight for both of them.  All fiction from his romantic mind.

He really should have moved slower, gone back to see her again and make sure that she was really into him and really wanted that.  The K-1 is not a way to see if you want to marry someone as we all know.  The course of action he followed wasn't the smartest but the way some tried to "help" him was pathetic.

  Oh really now?  That wasn't your position then.  You encouraged him to go through with his mislaid plan.

I think if Photo Guy and Larissa both really want to build a life with each other the kisses he did not get on the first trip will not be a factor.   I can tell from Photo guys comments that he is as determined as I was or pretty close.  If Larissa really wants to build a life with him and she does give him the indication that she does.  Then I think they will do just fine too.   I think any language problems they have will be less important that what they want for their life.