Life Changes...Part Deux

[IAmZon]

I wonder if I should stick me neck out ....   WTF

There is an argument for severe / large age gaps.  But, that must assume that the man is an exception to the aging rule.  Let's not loose sight of the fact that some (not most) + 40 year olds stay in great physical shape and are able to "fairly" attract younger women.   

1, In many countries, women who are physically beautiful will almost certainly be with child one way or the other by the age of 23 - maybe 21.

2, Women that are 18 - 24 are more able to adjust from one culture to the other.

3, And, in many countries, an older man - 35 - 45 becoming married to a young lady 19 - 22 is not that unusual. 

Having said the above (which is not very much at all considering the counter arguments), it is almost impossible for a man to "FIND HIS EQUAL" with such extreme age gaps. The relationship is likely to have more similarities to a guardian / father figure. 

 

[kievstar]

rivardco,

You will find large age gaps in all countries. 

A man who will make more children has a larger pool of women to choose from than a man who does not want to make children when talking about women under 40 years old.  Trump has a very young wife but made children after 50 years old.

I disagree on the physically beautiful having children under 24.  I have lived all over the World.  I find career women do not want children early and women who do not work do.  Even in Mexico and Brazil I found the career women having children after 25 years old.  But I do agree in many countries women really do not have careers and make children early.  I think it is more career than beauty however. 

You have spent some time in Colombia and that is a different place in itself.  Women there generally desire wealth and will marry an older man as he has more money than a young buck. 

I think you can find equals with 20 year age gap.  You will have an immature man and a mature women to bridge the gap. 

[tim 360]

Why, yes it is... I've yet to meet an 18 year old who truly had/has a clue about anything much, except for myself of course, I knew anything and everything.... seems I've evolved to higher levels of stupidity since then. 

It wasn't too far in the distant past when young girls of 14 were given in marriage to men of any age for a variety of reasons.  So I guess the age taboo is a rather recent development. Of course, that doesn't address the feelings or desires of the girls involved. 

I 

Why Daveman even 12 was considered a ripe age for marraige, but only after her first period.  In the last hundred years we have become more civilized than our ancestors.

[BillyB]

Billy, you have posted the 18 year old is a quality woman, lives her life by God, etc., etc.  You don't know any of this.  You haven't lived with her.  All you have to go by is words on a screen.  

When you see people at this forum write for 6 months, you can get a good idea if they are liberal or conservative and have extensive knowledge on certain things such as visa process, traveling, music, art, business, oil, etc... Although the RW never quoted the Bible, I can tell by her beliefs and how she views her future life with a husband that she has read the Bible enough that the teaching has effected her way of thinking. I have ruled out that she is a fanatic too.

Also, an 18 year old who values a good education isn't spending her time trolling for men on the internet. 

She doesn't spend hours on the internet like video chat girls so I doubt she is trolling for men. Some dating sites and marriage agencies list when the members are online just like this forum. One can observe how many times they show up and how long they stay. She comes online for a few minutes a day and sometimes she'll tell me "excuse me, I will not be on the computer for a few days because I have exams to study for. She lives in Libya currently so there's probably not much for her to do in her spare time. I doubt there is even a disco there so I'm surprised she's not on a computer anymore than what I've seen. I know she reads a lot of books and tells me about what she reads.  If I took my secret profile of a handsomer, younger, and more successful man and asked to meet her, I will be money she will turn him down. If I accept her offer to meet in Libya or Ukraine, I'm sure I'll be the only man she's seeing. I don't want to make a commitment yet and I told her to hold off making a commitment to me until we get through some serious Q & A.

Finally, if she comes from a "good family", they won't be thrilled to see a man twice her age show up at the door.

There are a few men here that married very young women twice their age. Are all the ladies from bad families too or only the ladies I associate with are from bad families?

Boethius, you are very liberal and I'm sure you have no problems if your daughter exercises her right to an abortion if that's what SHE wants someday but yet you are giving me the impression that you want to control your daughter's life in some form and have a say on who she dates. Does her happiness matter to you? Guide her but don't control her.

Age differences bother you. For other parents they are concerned with much more important things such as if a man their daughter dates has good character, wise, and can provide for their daughter and grandchildren. Age will become less of a factor for them. I seen photos of older members here with their young wives and the wife's parents and the parents look happy. If they didn't like their wife's husband, they probably wouldn't be in any photo with him and kick his butt instead.

it is good that a guy like Billy will hit the problem straight on - and probably early -in a new relationship.

Rivardco, good to see your smiling face back. I always enjoy your positive and energetic posts. I wish I had a place in my heart for you too but I'm not into homo play.

Sex is important and the more I've talked to RW, the more I understand lots of men out there have problems and have little clue. Studies show the average length of intercourse is anywhere from 3-10 minutes. Not good. A guy has one chance to make a good impression and if he does not perform on his first chance, he may not get invited back for a second chance. If a woman tolerates poor performance, she may not be able to tolerate it forever.

Women may not talk about it so much here but sex is important to them. A few guys may have experienced what I've experienced. When having a long intimate love session and taking a break, your RW may roll over, do some thinking and start crying. She will ask "Why didn't you finish?" It is important that you finish whether it's in her or on her but you must finish because she needs to know that you had complete satisfaction with her body and you are not rejecting her.

When talking to RW about sex on the first date or any date, I do not use the RM technique of asking her what her favorite positions are. I tell her what some of my goals in life and what I'm looking for in a woman and then I tell them what is important to me one thing being physical attraction and say "Without physical attraction there can be no relationship, only friendship. In relations, there must be physical attraction and intimacy." I will mention a story of a couple where the man wants to have intimacy once a month and he will last only a few minutes. Most RW will comment on the story and if they usually state "I could never live with such a man."

Some men may not want to marry a virgin since he won't know what he's getting until after the wedding. He is worried that his wife will not like sex. There is less to worry about if the woman has strong belief in her faith and believes in God. It is okay for a woman to submit herself to her husband. Nothing wrong with submitting yourself to a good person. She understands it's her husband's right to take liberty of her body. Although she may or may not like the physical stimulation of sex, she will enjoy sex because it brings her happiness in pleasing her husband in any form or frequency he desires.

Some of you are probably getting enraged but don't worry, I'm not selfish and I will submit my body to my wife to please her too.

A woman of strong faith will accommodate her husband in marriage if he's an overachiever and she will not divorce him if he is an underachiever.

I stated before there are 3 valid reasons for people to divorce. Infidelity, Physical or verbal abuse, and physical or mental abandonment of your spouse.

It might help to be honest about our real OBJECTIVES ?  BillyB are you really serious about finding "the one" at this time?  (that is the sub heading of RWD - GMN - "Get Married Now")  If not, then enjoy the journey and live an interesting life. It seems you are accomplishing that.  If you are TRYING to find Mrs. Right at this time, it is going to be complex.  Choices have to be made.

Somebody sent me a PM yesterday questioning if I'm still focused on the big picture and they seen some changes in me over the last 6 months. You question too and I suspect more have the same questions.

If I didn't write my life changes threads, nobody would understand what is happening in my life and everyone would think I'm the same guy 6 months ago. After long thought, I feel I am the same guy but just using different methods of finding the ONE. Maybe some of you feel there is more testosterone in my posts and I've always been a guy with lots of testosterone but it's not a bad thing. Just as us men get turned on by a woman's femininity, women get turned on by our actions that are a result of testosterone.

I could go back to the old method of dating one at a time for months only for one of us to figure out we are not made for each other long term but I may have to date 20 women and spend years to find ONE so I decided to speed things up and not be a playboy going after maximum sex and not making any promises of a relationship to any woman until I'm ready to make them my ONE.

If it does turn out that Billy winds up with the 18yo, and they both are happy, I'll be glad to wish them well. 

Your words mean a lot to me Dave. We'll be announcing our wedding as early as next week. I have not bought the plane tickets or made a decision on her so no need to wish us well yet.

"Hello Bill__
thank you so much.! i want you to come to Ukrania.. just try.. i promise that we will meet. and you will see my mom ...i mean it's more easy to to come here.. i will be in ukrania in august ... i think it's possible for you.. and if you will find me not interesting for you , so you can see just a country or somethin more..My family are very good and my mom!(she is the best woman on the world).
take care..."

When I posted the letter above that I received from the gal, I wished more people wouldn't focus on age and would focus on what they need to receive from sincere women instead of the casual invite. That letter is the kind of letter and 6 months of quality correspondence is what it takes to get me to go back to the FSU woman regardless of the woman's age. Based on our latest Q & A the girl understands a lot of what most people don't understand to make a marriage work and it's incredibly important to learn this and embrace it. I didn't understand this until much older.

The institution of marriage is greater than the individuals in the institution. I'm beginning to understand her drive and desire to make a marriage last a lifetime is greater than her own individual selfish desires. When in a marriage, no problems or barriers such as language, culture, race, age, or any other differences is going to tear it apart. "'We' supercedes 'Me'" She is not a ME, ME, ME person as many have seen in the FSU.

She is young and if I get together with her, I'm going to have to be a teacher but if she's a willing student, there will be no problems. Maybe my attitude scares some of you but it doesn't scare her. She has the right attitude for marriage and I could not enter into a marriage unless a woman values the institution of marriage and if I have much more life experience than her, she needs to be honest with herself and recognize it.

I don't want to have the same problems Aloe is going through in her thread so I'm not in a rush to get married until I understand a person well. We applaud her effort to seek help and find answers but her husband refuses to acknowledge there is a problem whether it is coming from him or her.

A wife doesn't have to be the most beautiful, intelligent, perfect woman in the World but if she's my wife, she will be treated better than any other woman in the World. I don't understand why some people out there need to call their spouse a name even out of anger. It's immature, escalates the problems, and it undermines the foundation of your marriage.

 

for what it's worth, the women that I define as "quality" women, women that are "independent", "strong", "intelligent" and the many other adjectives you tend to use, would not be queuing up for the privilege of joining Billy's harem.

I'm not saying the women that do are garbage either

You don't or you do think the RW I'm dating are quality?

Awhile back, a man came here wanting opinions if he should propose to his girlfriend who worked as an escort even before she quit her job. I told him commercial sex workers usually have mental scars, have a hard time breaking an old habit, and don't turn into wife material overnight. You defended commercial sex workers and mentioned your experience with two prostitutes you spoke with on the internet. You mention they were getting educated and seemed intelligent. They wanted to have a threesome with you and you admitted to considering it. Maybe you couldn't afford it or couldn't take a vacation to fly to them but if the circumstances were right, you would have had your threesome. I have never had a threesome and never used commercial sex but I find in odd that you are taking a "I'm holier than thou" and "I'm a one woman at a time" tone with me.

SJ, when you first came to this forum, you were exactly the way your name sounds. When you got married, your posts change to a more positive tune. You are back to being negative. You need to get yourself to a happy place.

[SANDRO43]

Why Daveman even 12 was considered a ripe age for marraige, but only after her first period. 

Because that meant she had finally become fertile and could therefore start her child-machine career . An understandable arrangement, considering life expectancy and child mortality in ancient times - and current times in some seriously under-developed countries, e.g. in Africa.

[Boethius]

She doesn't spend hours on the internet like video chat girls so I doubt she is trolling for men. Some dating sites and marriage agencies list when the members are online just like this forum. One can observe how many times they show up and how long they stay. She comes online for a few minutes a day and sometimes she'll tell me "excuse me, I will not be on the computer for a few days because I have exams to study for. She lives in Libya currently so there's probably not much for her to do in her spare time. I doubt there is even a disco there so I'm surprised she's not on a computer anymore than what I've seen. I know she reads a lot of books and tells me about what she reads.  If I took my secret profile of a handsomer, younger, and more successful man and asked to meet her, I will be money she will turn him down. If I accept her offer to meet in Libya or Ukraine, I'm sure I'll be the only man she's seeing. I don't want to make a commitment yet and I told her to hold off making a commitment to me until we get through some serious Q & A.

There are a few men here that married very young women twice their age. Are all the ladies from bad families too or only the ladies I associate with are from bad families?

She is talking to men online, is she not?

The "twice their age" argument is irrelevant.  There is a world of difference between an 18 year old and a 23 year old (or even a 21 year old), just as there's a world of difference between a 13 year old and an 18 year old.  

Boethius, you are very liberal and I'm sure you have no problems if your daughter exercises her right to an abortion if that's what SHE wants someday but yet you are giving me the impression that you want to control your daughter's life in some form and have a say on who she dates. Does her happiness matter to you? Guide her but don't control her.

You are mistaken about my "liberalism", Billy.  I am not pro feticide (let's call it what it is).  I think abortion is a sin.  However, I don't think it is my place to decide what other women should do with their bodies, or how they live their lives.  I will not be standing beside them in God's judgment.  Eighteen year olds are not adults.  A mother wanting happiness for her daughter would not be happy with her 18 year old daughter marrying, period.

Age differences bother you. For other parents they are concerned with much more important things such as if a man their daughter dates has good character, wise, and can provide for their daughter and grandchildren. Age will become less of a factor for them. I seen photos of older members here with their young wives and the wife's parents and the parents look happy. If they didn't like their wife's husband, they probably wouldn't be in any photo with him and kick his butt instead.

Again, despite having read many of my posts, you don't know me.  Or perhaps you haven't read my posts.  I don't have an issue with age disparate relationships.   It is up to each person to decide.  But there's a difference between a woman and a girl.  

[IAmZon]

Being REALLY able to satisfy a women is something you have, or you don't.  Some guys are good at math - some are not.  It is sort of like that.

American men have such a pathetic reputation in the sack - it is embarrassing to me.  Actually, I have learned to turn this to an advantage in meeting women, but it does take a confidence that almost surely sabotages any real future relationship.  One can either be a playboy, or a gentleman, not both.

Of course, if you can bring some force on this issue - male female sexuality, it benefits you immeasurably (with a passionate woman, it is the only way to maintain a real relationship.  Otherwise, all you have is an "arrangement".)    It almost goes without saying, does it not?  So give em hell Billy ... the rest of us will try to keep up with your high marks.   


=======

Billy B "I could go back to the old method of dating one at a time for months only for one of us to figure out we are not made for each other long term but I may have to date 20 women and spend years to find ONE so I decided to speed things up and not be a playboy going after maximum sex and not making any promises of a relationship to any woman until I'm ready to make them my ONE."

I know a thing or two about this stuff.   I recommend RADICAL HONESTY.  It is not easy.  Everybody THINKS of themselves as honest ... but in practice almost always confuse honesty with civility.  Civility usually wins - who wants to offend, or injure another feelings? 

The more and more honest you try to become, the more and more girls you are likely to have in your black book - until you meet Mrs. Right.  Just lay out whatever is in your head.  Make no apologies.   Take it or leave it.   I think everybody would be amazed to see the results.  (The only thing you CAN lie about is how many women you have been with.  The number should never be over 25)

Bien Suerte

[Jumper]

If I took my secret profile of a handsomer, younger, and more successful man and asked to meet her, I will bet money she will turn him down.

sheesh, i'll take that bet.
on the condition your "secret" profile acts  like you say you do now-
normally/ gentlemanly with some character and  chrisma right?

it's a rather silly statement billy . if he isn't *flawed* ,has the same personality and character traits she likes in you , is younger and more handsome ..
she is single !!
your secret profile is *you*. (duh)
 if she met "him" first you wouldn't stand  a chance.

your own argument assures this outcome (if by your assement this guy doesnt stand  chance now ,because she already met you! right?)

so the only difference would be which profile she corresponded with first,and if she felt some since of commitment or emotional investment in the first one .

you are portraying it as *if* all things were equal ,, she would choose  the older less handsome version of the exact same man ..   

either this isnt what you meant , or a dose of reality needs to be in this mix.

maybe you  meant he is "different "  not as good as billyb.
or that she is attached enough to you to not be swayed ... by appearences or wealth

if so ,i guess i understand ?

but the premise then  doesn't make sense , as your secret profile is you ,
and if given  the same first association ,and correspondence time ..


*****************************************************
as far as her letter, it's fine?
but nothing unusual?just a normal enough invitation billy?
and frankly to me she comes across as young ,in how it's stated.


exactly what level of letters ,or invitations, do you think men  receive?
have you seen examples of insincere? or poor ones?
(i'm just curious ,as i havn't)

Billy -you've mentioned similar serious quality letters before ,and shown similar examples of what men *should* be getting .

I have held back before as i really truly dont mean to offend ,,
 but the if you are trying to help readers ,,
 i feel these past examples  are a bare minimum of what they should find acceptable in correspondence,  bare bones minimum.

apologies if ruffle feathers,  i just find this and past  examples exteemly basic.
 
if men are receiving less than that , then the only trip they should be thinking of is simply going and meeting without writing .. ?

Most men *should*be able to  get that level ,that kind, of reply and invitation.
 from a girl met in the park  over  a cup of coffee!
I don't doubt it's sincere.
I just hope men arn't traveling on anything less.

[Ade]

You don't or you do think the RW I'm dating are quality?

Mr Black and white huh? Put it this way, I wouldn't paint them to be the picture of perfection you seem to, and one of the main sticking points for me is that you claim they don't care that you sleep around. Another is that you say they are willing to relinquish their will to yours; these things strike me as attributes of weak and insecure women not of strong independent ones. Now, these qualities don't make the women bad people and for some men I guess these qualities are welcome, but please Billy, don't try to redefine reality and use adjectives which just don't fit to make these women seem more than they are.

Awhile back, a man came here wanting opinions if he should propose to his girlfriend who worked as an escort even before she quit her job. I told him commercial sex workers usually have mental scars, have a hard time breaking an old habit, and don't turn into wife material overnight. You defended commercial sex workers and mentioned your experience with two prostitutes you spoke with on the internet. You mention they were getting educated and seemed intelligent. They wanted to have a threesome with you and you admitted to considering it. Maybe you couldn't afford it or couldn't take a vacation to fly to them but if the circumstances were right, you would have had your threesome. I have never had a threesome and never used commercial sex but I find in odd that you are taking a "I'm holier than thou" and "I'm a one woman at a time" tone with me.

Dude, yes, I posted something along those lines although you're taking an out of context sound bite from a long thread. Without trawling back for that conversation, if I remember correctly, I told you that there's no way of earth you could differentiate between a woman who has been an escort in her past from one that hasn't if she really didn't want you to know (crack whores aside). You of course said you could see them coming a mile away.   Which of course is patently silly.

Usually commercial sex workers feel compelled to do what they do for whatever reasons and yes, they end up being somewhat scarred. The girls I mentioned were healthy, seemingly happy, and very intelligent university students that chose men they would normally sleep with but asked for money for the privilege; they used the money to pay off their student loans so they wouldn't be in debt when they graduated. Sure, I guess they may regret their actions later in life but these are not the same women that are forced into prostitution through drug addiction or desperate poverty which sleep with any disease ridden dude to get their next fix.

FWIW, although I considered their offer seriously, (you may not believe it but I'm not any less of a red blooded male than you Billy) but I chose not to eventually and I can assure you, it had nothing to do with the cost. I'll also say that at the time I was a good bit younger than you are now and I had absolutely no interest in finding a wife

You have to try to understand something here Billy; I don't particularly care if you sleep around with as many women as you want - my guess is that my attitudes are far more liberal in most respects regarding sex than probably you and most other Americans. The reason I have made comments in your threads is that you make the most bizarre claims. The fact that you act like a 20-something, getting laid as much as you can with anyone that will have you (your words) doesn't seem to me to be particularly compatible with your goals to find the perfect Stepford wife and certainly not a method that I would want to promote to others.

I'm curious what you think this 18-year old "God-fearing virgin" would say if she knew what you're up to. Or don't you care that your methodology and her views are probably incompatible?

SJ, when you first came to this forum, you were exactly the way your name sounds. When you got married, your posts change to a more positive tune. You are back to being negative. You need to get yourself to a happy place.

Dude, you really have no idea. You say similar things to this quite often to people here and it's amusing to say the least. But for the record, the tone of my posts here in no way reflects the state of my relationship with my wife although I guess this statement will fall on deaf ears with you. It's just another sign that you have a hard time assessing reality for what it is.

[Ranetka]

BillyB,

if I understand you correclty a very high proportion of women you are dating had previously been in abusive relationships. Judging by your posts this perentage to me seem extremely high.

Why do you think you tend to attract women who used to be abused?

P.S. Do you really believe a typical Russian male is an abusive drinker?

[Ranetka]

And another question.

Why do you equate cooking dinner and washing dishes to caring for a man or traditional values? I mean why do you think if they cook for you they are going let you make decisions? It is completely different things.

I cook, I wash for my dates, it is not difficult and I can cook, no problem.

It does not mean that I am happy to wash that stupid dishes and cook every day only because once in a lifetime he put she shelf up in the kitchen.

[CanadaMan]

In praise of older women:

...My lunch date was a first date. The RW is older than I. About half my regular dates are with women older than I ages 42 on up. Half my dates are older because it's my choice on who I want to call and go out with. Older women know how to take care of a MAN better probably because they have more life experience.

Having said that, there's nothing to take the place of a young hot nubile nymph:

...Here is a message I got from a RW 2 days ago. I wrote to her like everyone else. If she's good looking in my eyes, I write not reading her age or profile. She's 18 but I've gotten letters like this from older women too. The reason I'm showing this message is to give some of you an idea how a sincere family oriented woman writes regardless of age.
...If I go to Ukraine and I look the same as my photos and conduct myself well, I'm pretty sure this woman will be my wife.

[Miri22]

". She understands it's her husband's right to take liberty of her body. Although she may or may not like the physical stimulation of sex, she will enjoy sex because it brings her happiness in pleasing her husband in any form or frequency he desires. "

Is this for real? You believe this?

[Gator]

". She understands it's her husband's right to take liberty of her body. Although she may or may not like the physical stimulation of sex, she will enjoy sex because it brings her happiness in pleasing her husband in any form or frequency he desires. "

Is this for real? You believe this?

I did not read the context of this statement so maybe I am missing something. 

What type of man would be satisfied with such sex?   Not me, thank you.  Well maybe sometimes if in a high testosterone mood and needing a quick release.  But not as way to express and enjoy intimacy with the woman you love.

[Miri22]

That is what BillyB wrote up thread describing apparently his expectations of a future wife, in this case he's talking I believe about an 18 year old virgin.

[Misha]

Women may not talk about it so much here but sex is important to them. A few guys may have experienced what I've experienced. When having a long intimate love session and taking a break, your RW may roll over, do some thinking and start crying. She will ask "Why didn't you finish?" It is important that you finish whether it's in her or on her but you must finish because she needs to know that you had complete satisfaction with her body and you are not rejecting her.

Billy, if what you write is true, I must say that the women that you know are very, very different from the women that I dated 

There is less to worry about if the woman has strong belief in her faith and believes in God. It is okay for a woman to submit herself to her husband. Nothing wrong with submitting yourself to a good person. She understands it's her husband's right to take liberty of her body. Although she may or may not like the physical stimulation of sex, she will enjoy sex because it brings her happiness in pleasing her husband in any form or frequency he desires.

Some of you are probably getting enraged but don't worry, I'm not selfish and I will submit my body to my wife to please her too.

She understands it's her husband's right to take liberty of her body? Billy, do you really believe what you have posted above?

[Shostakovich]

... but in practice almost always confuse honesty with civility. 

An excellent distinction!  But before you can be honest with another you have to be honest with yourself and to be willing to carry that through.  But that's not possible so long as the need to be accepted and validated by another remains.  So long as those needs hold sway the impulse towards honesty will go stillborn.  Romantic love has an illusory component -- understanding of the emotive force that propels one to another deflates its force.  Thus the more capable of honesty you are the more self understanding you have and the less likely you'll seek union with another as some ultimate solution to life's misery.  Loneliness turns to solitude.  Still I think there is a possibility for a sensible coupling.  Socrates and I think Aristotle married.  If you follow the honesty track you reduce the odds of finding someone, as almost everyone insists that you buy into some egregious nonsense to appease.  On the other hand, honesty makes failure to unite less important -- either way you win.       

[BillyB]

She is talking to men online, is she not?

The first time you insinuated that it's not appropriate for a young lady to talk online, I thought you meant for hours everyday. I agree but with your need to repeat I understand that you think it's wrong period. I hope you're not putting a muzzle and earplugs on your daughter. She needs to talk to guys as she's growing up. If you protect your daughter from experience interacting with men, she will not be able to distinguish who's a better man later in life. The clumsy talking good guy or smooth talking bad guy.

A few times in my life I had a couple of strange experiences. I was in my mid 20's and asked a couple of college girls out on separate occasions. They were scared as if it's weird for a man to ask them out. You are a Canadian woman Boethius and I hope you don't make the same mistake some American mother's make guiding their daughter to grow up being paranoid of men.

When I first wrote to the 18 yo, she said she is mainly looking to improve her English with people all over the World. Now she sees me as relationship/husband material. 6 months communication with her and I have never written or said anything I'm ashamed about. She has never written or said anything she should be ashamed about. 18 yo girls on the internet get thousands of mail from all kinds of guys. They get all kinds of offers. Use your imagination. They can become jaded, big headed, and begin talking as dirty as men have talked to them or simply frightened of all men. The experience can alter them mentally if they aren't focused or guided to stay on the right path. The RW who communicates with me has maintained her composure, morals, and values.

Because you're worried about me and the potentially bad behavior of an 18 yo, I sent her a few messages from my secret profile and some things I knew was going to happen happened such as she kept her messages short and lacked interest in the man. She also showed her youth and some anger to some of my bolder questions.

When I asked her to tell me something about herself, she said "read Bible!!! it will halp you to understand me..."i respect myself and i become from an old family.. ", and "i do not drink , drugs.. i am good girl.."

When asking her what kind of relationship she wants, friend, lover, or serious she said "you can look for other girls wich gonne sleep with you, sorry girl for one night it's wrong adress!!!!"

After my apology and told her she misunderstood the question and complimented her for her values she said "thanks for understanding me..it seems that its you first time when you met clean girl."

When she was trying to get rid of me she said "mister! please you have to sonsider the idea that it's may be better to not write me anymore!! you are too old for me!". "may be you can't see  i am 18 and u a 33"

The last statement surprised me but sometimes women get rid of men and make up something that may or may not be true. Out of reading thousands of different RWs words, this lady is one of the last ones that would worry me.

AJ, you mentioned a lot in your post but my secret profile is not me. I don't write the same. If it is used, it is to get into the mind of someone to better understand them that they aren't insincere or talk nice to me but crap to others. What would ladies think about me dating others you mentioned? I am not in relationship with any woman and I don't think about who RW are dating or talking to. It doesn't bother me. If you want a woman to date only yourself starting with the first date because that is your belief, you should establish the fact early so nobody gets their feelings hurt.  I could tell the 18 yo if she wants to make a commitment to me, she has to take her profile down and only talk to me. I'm sure she'll do it but I am not ready to make a commitment to her until we get through more Q & A. I told her I can't make a decision on her yet.

You are mistaken about my "liberalism", Billy.  I am not pro feticide (let's call it what it is).  I think abortion is a sin.  However, I don't think it is my place to decide what other women should do with their bodies, or how they live their lives.  I will not be standing beside them in God's judgment.

Since you think abortion is murder, I hope your vote accordingly. Liberals tend to value freedom of choice in the matter. God will judge your vote. God has allowed us to live our lives but we have man's laws in place to discourage murder. So far society hasn't labeled abortion murder but you do have some power to put in people in charge who will create laws to discourage it.

Abortion is a hot topic issue and should be talked about before visiting a RW. A guy should also figure out if his RW he's communicating with is conservative and liberal before making a decision getting on a plane. Even if it doesn't matter to him what his woman's beliefs are, it may matter to her and thus a successful relationship my never happen if one or bother persons doesn't respect the other.

a very high proportion of women you are dating had previously been in abusive relationships. Judging by your posts this perentage to me seem extremely high.

Why do you think you tend to attract women who used to be abused?

If I dated happily married women, then I'd probably be dating women who have never experienced abuse.  Some of the women I've dated have had multiple relationships throughout their lives. One relationship with minor abuse is still abuse but 6 other men they may have had relationships with may not have abused them and maybe they broke up for other reasons. It's very believable if a woman has 5 relationships in her life, one man may have hit or pushed her out of anger but it doesn't mean half or all her relationships were with abusive men.

Much of the RW I've dated had relationships with more RM than Western men for obvious reasons. In the lone case of abuse I know involving an American man with RW, the RW didn't have any abuse from RM in her past relationships. She wanted to report her ex American husband to marriage agencies to take his profile down so she can protect other RW. After I asked, she said she didn't report the few incidences of abuse she got from her American husband. I told her she's wasting her time because as far as the World knows, he's innocent and even if you protect RW, he will marry another woman from another culture. Anyway she just found out he married an American woman months ago.

Abuse knows no bounds. The doctor and business owner has received abuse. I don't know the occupations of all the men but one was an engineer. Intelligent people get angry and look down on others too especially towards people who are less intelligent.

P.S. Do you really believe a typical Russian male is an abusive drinker?

None of the RW who experienced abuse blamed alcohol as I thought may have played a part in the abuse. If they blamed alcohol on anything, they blamed their husband/boyfriend for spending too much on it, and/or being a drunk which made them useless since they ignored their responsibilities.

Why do you equate cooking dinner and washing dishes to caring for a man or traditional values? I mean why do you think if they cook for you they are going let you make decisions? It is completely different things.

It does not mean that I am happy to wash that stupid dishes and cook every day only because once in a lifetime he put she shelf up in the kitchen.

Don't focus on the word "cooking". I'm talking more about playing roles and accepting responsibility. I have no problem accepting the role that I've got to work and make money. I've got no problem with taking out the trash. Working a full time job is a lot more work than taking out the garbage or putting a shelf up in the kitchen and someone has to do it.

A woman who wants to keep score and keep things totally "equal" isn't going to like being in a marriage with me. Why should a woman let her man make decisions? Hopefully she didn't marry a child but a man she can respect and she can't respect her man if he doesn't make good decisions. If she's at the point of wanting to make all the decision, she probably doesn't respect her man. No respect, no love.

I did not read the context of this statement so maybe I am missing something. 

What type of man would be satisfied with such sex?   Not me, thank you.  Well maybe sometimes if in a high testosterone mood and needing a quick release.  But not as way to express and enjoy intimacy with the woman you love.

Hopefully everyone else will understand what I previously said and embrace it after I give an example. When I was younger, physical stimulation during sex was all I cared about since that was what I thought is was all about besides making babies. Now that I'm older, physical stimulation is not very important for me anymore. Bringing pleasure to my partner is. I like the lights on. I'll watch her face and body movements to see what she enjoys. Sex feels much, much, much better when you are doing it for your partner, not yourself. You will be rewarded when your partner returns the favor. I am happy when she's happy and she will be happy when I am happy. Get rid of those who like selfish sex. I prefer a woman who wants to please me over one that only wants physical stimulation for herself anyday. If you please yourself, you have sex, if you please your partner, you are making love. I'm not scared if a woman hates sex as long as she loves making love.


My date Friday was with the GC lottery winner turned business owner. We went to Chinatown in a major US city for dinner and like most dates, things go smooth but there was one incident of interest. As we were sitting on a bench talking, my RW says "It's time to go!" I turned to looked at this strange walking and dirty looking bum coming straight for us and I said "Too, late he's almost here and I don't want to turn my back to him so lets hear what he has to say."

I didn't know if he was drunk, on drugs, mentally ill, or all of the above because I didn't understand half the things he said. I had to ask him "What?" and "Could you repeat. I didn't understand you." I kept my eyes on him almost the whole time. I glanced at my RW and she looked scared so I put my arm around her to comfort her and my gesture tells the bum "she's mine".

After a few minutes I tell the bum "I'm out with my lady tonight and I want to have a private conversation with her, could you excuse us?". He said "Alright" and walked off and I told him "Thanks, have a goodnight".

I asked my RW if she was scared of black people but she said she was scared by the way the man talked and moving strangely. She mentioned she had a few incidences with blacks before. 3 tried to rob her purse and she fell on the ground screaming. They punched and kicked her but fortunately a few white guys came running so the thieves left without the purse. She suffered bruises to her face and body. Her son was robbed by some blacks and cops happen to see it but after they recovered his backpack, the laptop inside was broken. Some blacks at school were calling him "White" and "Caucasian". When she filed a complaint with the school, they said it's not harassment because he is white and Caucasian. Her son later called them "black" in retaliation for being called "white" and she got a call from the school about her son's racist words. Needless to say, she went off on them.

She does not hate blacks after those incidences. She does not blame them or American culture. She understands the American government originally put her in a bad neighborhood. She has sinced moved. She has some good experiences with blacks. Her neighbor a Somalian lady brings food for her everyday. She judges each person as an individual. Even with her bad experiences, she still feels safer in America than in Ukraine.

At the end of our date, I take her home. I move forward to kiss her. She doesn't turn her cheek as she did on the first date and she lets me have her lips. I kiss and kiss again and again 3 times in all since she didn't resist. She rubs her nose with my nose for a few seconds and then puts her head next to mine and rubs her cheek on my cheek and hugs me. We then say our goodbyes.

[Boethius]

The first time you insinuated that it's not appropriate for a young lady to talk online, I thought you meant for hours everyday. I agree but with your need to repeat I understand that you think it's wrong period. I hope you're not putting a muzzle and earplugs on your daughter. She needs to talk to guys as she's growing up. If you protect your daughter from experience interacting with men, she will not be able to distinguish who's a better man later in life. The clumsy talking good guy or smooth talking bad guy.

My daughter is not 18.  She does talk to boys her age and a few years older.  She doesn't need to be talking to men, especially not men in the 30's and 40's, and frankly, I know her, and I know she wouldn't.  She would find the whole idea "creepy".

They were scared as if it's weird for a man to ask them out. You are a Canadian woman Boethius and I hope you don't make the same mistake some American mother's make guiding their daughter to grow up being paranoid of men.

Our cultures aren't all that different (other than perhaps the U.S. South), but there's a world of difference between being paranoid and seeking men more than twice your age.  I am a woman, and I have been a girl.  Most of the time when a girl is interested in much older men, she either wants to be taken care of economically (meaning, love is secondary), or has "Daddy" issues.

When I first wrote to the 18 yo, she said she is mainly looking to improve her English with people all over the World. Now she sees me as relationship/husband material. 6 months communication with her and I have never written or said anything I'm ashamed about. She has never written or said anything she should be ashamed about. 18 yo girls on the internet get thousands of mail from all kinds of guys. They get all kinds of offers. Use your imagination. They can become jaded, big headed, and begin talking as dirty as men have talked to them or simply frightened of all men. The experience can alter them mentally if they aren't focused or guided to stay on the right path. The RW who communicates with me has maintained her composure, morals, and values.

Any attractive woman has this experience in her hometown on a day to day basis.  The only difference is online, she can turn off her computer.  Anything else, and she is willingly subjecting herself to this behaviour.  Perhaps she even enjoys it.  As I stated before, until you have met this girl (she is not a woman), and know her better, you can't really know her morals and values.

When she was trying to get rid of me she said "mister! please you have to sonsider the idea that it's may be better to not write me anymore!! you are too old for me!". "may be you can't see  i am 18 and u a 33"

And yet she is corresponding with you, knowing you're older than 33.

Since you think abortion is murder, I hope your vote accordingly. Liberals tend to value freedom of choice in the matter. God will judge your vote. God has allowed us to live our lives but we have man's laws in place to discourage murder. So far society hasn't labeled abortion murder but you do have some power to put in people in charge who will create laws to discourage it.

God judges my soul, not someone else's.  Incidentally, no Canadian political party favours restriction on abortion.

[Miri22]

Using a secret profile is deceitful at best. Given that the girl did not wish to speak to someone 33 years old and you are presumably older than that should speak volumes to your judgement. You are an adult, she is a child.
One could wonder if your use of "secret profiles" is limited to dating sites?

[Jumper]

AJ, you mentioned a lot in your post but my secret profile is not me.
 I don't write the same.

Exactly . so the context you where using it for an example, is not relevant.

You where saying she would turn down a younger ,wealthier ,more handsome man.period.

she would not.
Only if you disable or impair this "man" by writing differently or behaving differently .
That was my point.

If it is used, it is to get into the mind of someone to better understand them that they aren't insincere or talk nice to me but crap to others.

i understand your motive for doing so,
but it certainly doesn't mean,or prove,  she wouldn't be interested in a younger wealthier more handsome man.
you made the statement .
 i brought up that as a *blank statemt*, without "qualifiers' it is untrue.

I did not bring it up to define your 'testing " methods..
but yes it was assumed that you acted "differently" or even poorly,
when playing the role of someone younger ,wealthier and more handsome..
hence jading her answers and your perception,
because the reason for her lack of interest is their behavior after all.

your secret profile seems juvenile to me billy.
You  use it to act "differently" or possibly ask intrusive questions to gauge a womans reaction
to such.


I just prefer to ask them directly how they feel about things.
,believe it or not you can determine a lot by their answers!
or thier actions around others or simply through normal  discussions.

If you need a seperate profile to gauge or test thier character ,,
i wonder at your powers of observation.

Justifying it as some safety catch ,in case she isnt being sincere.. in her answers or actions  
to you ??
if some woman did the same to you , you perhaps would not care?

i would , not because i have anything at all to hide , exactly the opposite, because  i don't.
 and i wouldn't appreciate the dishonesty ,and deception

it shows a certain distrust of others in her character ,and /or  a lack of faith in herself to see who i am ,without subversion.

What would ladies think about me dating others you mentioned? I am not in relationship with any woman and I don't think about who RW are dating or talking to. It doesn't bother me.

I don't recall asking that,,maybe i did or it was another poster??

We can all casually date billy.
I think most adults here understand the distinction.
so of course date away!  

 If you have no romantic relationship ,they wouldn't be crying at your possible loss when the student visited on a work program.
If they are platonic friends , they wouldn't be losing you.

If you break off contact with a platonic friend over a possible live in date..
you arn't much a friend to cry over.It just isnt that level of friendship.

If you want a woman to date only yourself starting with the first date because that is your belief,

nowhere in any form did i ever insinuate i felt that way .
dating is dating ,,

my distinction came from your own words..
when a woman you state you are DATING, is upset because you may not see them again..over another woman.
i think we both know well that distinction ,and the relationship in their eyes was past
the point of casual enough to not care if you dated others.
you seem to want to revise your account , and state they are completely casual about your dates or only *friends* , thats fine , but they would not be crying , no matter how *emotional* women are .. they don't,in general, cry over such a casual friendship loss ,,  

noone is throwing you under the buss for dating  billyb.
its normal..
some of your observations are simply questioned,,
and since you are specifically using this as some form of advise ,
it seems natural questions wil come up about your interpretations,
it isnt a knock on you *dating*.

I could tell the 18 yo if she wants to make a commitment to me, she has to take her profile down and only talk to me. I'm sure she'll do it but I am not ready to make a commitment to her until we get through more Q & A. I told her I can't make a decision on her yet.

I have never asked any woman to take her profile down .period.
That is up to her, and if our relationship developes that far ,
she would take it down  when she feels we are exclusive i'd assume.
 it's a natural progression or choice of both parties?


In the case of this 18yo and you not ready to make that commitment to her yet..
when a couple hasn't met ,  i see no reason at all for either party to have expectations of a profile being pulled , that's silly insecurity at best.

Billy, I hope you'd pull your *secret profile* as well at the same time ,decision of commitment lol
anyway- If you are casually dating as you state ,you certainly shouldn't be asking anyone to remove a profile ..and you do not seem to be ,,
 so that makes perfect sense.

 If your 33 year old alter ego had acted exactly like you .. and given the same time of correspondence ,she would have been interested .

I for the life of me do not see what you gain from these *tests*

ok, i get that if  she had been interested in him..acting poorly , ,that *might* tell you something ..  

it tells you she is *normal* ,and doesn't respond well to rude or a bit  brash behavior .
or  acertain personality type.
i hope you'd get that far in just normal  interaction ,without these silly tests.

you set yourself up to HAVE to have the guy behave a bit abrasive or brash,,
or 'different"
because if you had acted normally and she was interested ,, nothing learned at all..

If she is of the good character and integrity that you hope,she would not understand or appreciate your tests, and frankly they would be beneath her.

billyb its odd to portray yourself as a quality intelligent individual ,, with few peers here
 (your thoughts,your words)
yet play high school level games because the internet  allows it ..
games you likely would not play  in a more natural situation.

if she lived in your city you would not have a friend hit on her, or try and date her ,
 to check out her characteristics !

but the anomity of the net allows, so you will.....
 


To justify poor behavior
( fake profiles are indeed poor behaviour and dishonesty)
 by saying you are smart and protecting yourself from scam is semantics.
 
you can find out about her sincerity , or character, by less deceptive means.
This is some hap hazard 'shortcut' to that.. and it is not an honest one.

To debate it is silly ,and pointless, not one woman of good inner character and integrity would agree that it is a good means of determining their character, and most would find it offensive.

 This is mostly an advice forum , so I'd advise  men to not use such tests.

[BillyB]

Using a secret profile is deceitful at best.

your secret profile seems juvenile to me

I for the life of me do not see what you gain from these *tests*

I thought I answered your questions earlier but you two don't seem to get it. I will explain a little more to hammer home the reasons behind the secret profile.

It's my life and I'm responsible for taking care of it and keeping crap out. I have two kids. I have an ex wife that has no problems taking me to court to decrease my time with the kids. The last thing I want is to explain to a judge why some RW is in my house when I had little face to face time. Do you understand what society already thinks about men like us? We are insane to find a life partner overseas based on little face to face time. We should try our best to limit the insanity.

We can figure out a woman's beliefs and goals through correspondence. We can figure out chemistry by meeting with a woman. We can't figure out how honest or faithful someone is unless we spend a lot of time with them or test them. Spending a lot of time with someone is unrealistic for most men and women here.

I said before that some RW will not like me but they will respect me. Deep down they know I'm doing the right thing. Only the men here seem to have problems with it but it is your problem. If a RW got divorced with her husband and he has visitation rights with the kids, she will want him to thoroughly examine any new woman in his life by any means possible. I agree and the last thing I want to do is bring a thief, child molestor, or an insincere woman into my home to affect me and more importantly my kids in a bad way.

Some RW know they will have various men make numerous promises throughout their lives. If a woman corresponds with a man for months and the man says "You're the only woman for me so lets focus on each other", I have no problem if the RW tests him with a secret profile or a friend's profile to see if he's telling the truth. If a RW is engaged to a man and she feels she needs to test his honesty, I have no problem with that either. One test can save years of being in a marriage ending with disastrous results. The benefits outweigh the costs. The test is more to find deceiving people than to deceive as Miri thinks.

Who's likely to fail the test? Bad people and when they fail, they deserve to get dumped. Who's likely to pass the test? Good people and when they passed, they will gain respect and love. Good people shouldn't be afraid of a test. Make no mistake, you will be tested in various ways by your woman for various reasons. It's not a question of "if", it's a question of "when"  and when you do get tested, I hope you're not pussy whipped and give her as much mouth as you've given me.

The people one has to worry about is the people who are not satisfied with the results of a test and will test endlessly. I have no reason to test anyone to see if they're faithful yet since I'm not in a relationship. All RW that communicate with me can speak to other men, date them, and sleep with them if they wish. They owe me nothing.


The 18 yo RW's mom just finished reading 6 months of correspondence between me and her daughter and the 18 yo wrote me:

"my mom se saw you and she saw our letters.. she likes you.. she said that you are good and smart man."

If her mom didn't like me, I would tell her "goodbye, without your parents support, it won't be easy to forge a relationship". Now that her mom has given her blessing for me to court her daughter, I will continue to ask her daughter many questions. I sent pics of my kids to her and she said they are beautiful and would like to know more about them. She's asking me questions too such as if I love my ex wife.


I had a date earlier today with the green card lottery girl. After lunch we went walking and walked into a cemetery. We had a very romantic time at the cemetery since there was a lot of french kissing going on. I told her I was at a funeral yesterday for an ex employee and friend. His family been having it tough lately. He died a few days ago and his father died shortly after. His son was at the funeral in shackles since he was in prison. His sister was killed by the infamous Green River killer decades ago.

She mentioned I was easy to talk to and can talk to me about things she wouldn't talk with other men until only months after knowing them. She tells me she and many of her friends have had moments of love making where they are staring at the ceiling thinking about if they should repaint it another color or similar stories of boredom during sex. Pay attention to what you're doing guys. If she's bored, you better up your performance. She is but another RW that has told me stories of poor performance in bed by men.

You don't have to be the smartest guy in the World, nor the richest, handsomest, nicest guy, or drive an expensive car(I take my dates out in an 11 yo Korean made car), but if you're a well rounded individual, you will catch a lady easy. Many women are just hoping to find a normal decent guy without any strange behavior, beliefs, or attitude.

I didn't turn out to be a ladies man overnight. I learned a lot right here at this forum. I carefully figured out what wisdom I need to absorb to be successful and that is the key. Most everything in life you learn is learned from another man. It's how you put it together that will determine the man you will become.

[Seeker]

I thought I answered your questions earlier but you two don't seem to get it. I will explain a little more to hammer home the reasons behind the secret profile.

It's my life and I'm responsible for taking care of it and keeping crap out. I have two kids. I have an ex wife that has no problems taking me to court to decrease my time with the kids. The last thing I want is to explain to a judge why some RW is in my house when I had little face to face time. Do you understand what society already thinks about men like us? We are insane to find a life partner overseas based on little face to face time. We should try our best to limit the insanity.

We can figure out a woman's beliefs and goals through correspondence. We can figure out chemistry by meeting with a woman. We can't figure out how honest or faithful someone is unless we spend a lot of time with them or test them. Spending a lot of time with someone is unrealistic for most men and women here.

I said before that some RW will not like me but they will respect me. Deep down they know I'm doing the right thing. Only the men here seem to have problems with it but it is your problem. If a RW got divorced with her husband and he has visitation rights with the kids, she will want him to thoroughly examine any new woman in his life by any means possible. I agree and the last thing I want to do is bring a thief, child molestor, or an insincere woman into my home to affect me and more importantly my kids in a bad way.

Some RW know they will have various men make numerous promises throughout their lives. If a woman corresponds with a man for months and the man says "You're the only woman for me so lets focus on each other", I have no problem if the RW tests him with a secret profile or a friend's profile to see if he's telling the truth. If a RW is engaged to a man and she feels she needs to test his honesty, I have no problem with that either. One test can save years of being in a marriage ending with disastrous results. The benefits outweigh the costs. The test is more to find deceiving people than to deceive as Miri thinks.

Who's likely to fail the test? Bad people and when they fail, they deserve to get dumped. Who's likely to pass the test? Good people and when they passed, they will gain respect and love. Good people shouldn't be afraid of a test. Make no mistake, you will be tested in various ways by your woman for various reasons. It's not a question of "if", it's a question of "when"  and when you do get tested, I hope you're not pussy whipped and give her as much mouth as you've given me.

The people one has to worry about is the people who are not satisfied with the results of a test and will test endlessly. I have no reason to test anyone to see if they're faithful yet since I'm not in a relationship. All RW that communicate with me can speak to other men, date them, and sleep with them if they wish. They owe me nothing.


The 18 yo RW's mom just finished reading 6 months of correspondence between me and her daughter and the 18 yo wrote me:

"my mom se saw you and she saw our letters.. she likes you.. she said that you are good and smart man."

If her mom didn't like me, I would tell her "goodbye, without your parents support, it won't be easy to forge a relationship". Now that her mom has given her blessing for me to court her daughter, I will continue to ask her daughter many questions. I sent pics of my kids to her and she said they are beautiful and would like to know more about them. She's asking me questions too such as if I love my ex wife.


I had a date earlier today with the green card lottery girl. After lunch we went walking and walked into a cemetery. We had a very romantic time at the cemetery since there was a lot of french kissing going on. I told her I was at a funeral yesterday for an ex employee and friend. His family been having it tough lately. He died a few days ago and his father died shortly after. His son was at the funeral in shackles since he was in prison. His sister was killed by the infamous Green River killer decades ago.

She mentioned I was easy to talk to and can talk to me about things she wouldn't talk with other men until only months after knowing them. She tells me she and many of her friends have had moments of love making where they are staring at the ceiling thinking about if they should repaint it another color or similar stories of boredom during sex. Pay attention to what you're doing guys. If she's bored, you better up your performance. She is but another RW that has told me stories of poor performance in bed by men.

You don't have to be the smartest guy in the World, nor the richest, handsomest, nicest guy, or drive an expensive car(I take my dates out in an 11 yo Korean made car), but if you're a well rounded individual, you will catch a lady easy. Many women are just hoping to find a normal decent guy without any strange behavior, beliefs, or attitude.

I didn't turn out to be a ladies man overnight. I learned a lot right here at this forum. I carefully figured out what wisdom I need to absorb to be successful and that is the key. Most everything in life you learn is learned from another man. It's how you put it together that will determine the man you will become.

Billy, as much as I couldn't do it myself, if you feel this is the right way to lead your life it is not up to me to pass judgment.  It is not a right or wrong thing... just different values.  Maybe it is because I have been tested before and was insulted by it, I wouldn't do it to a woman I cared about.  I just hope it doesn't backfire on you.  If you met the perfect woman (in your heart) and she found out, I hope she isn't hurt and insulted like I was.

Just food for thought.  I have no desire to change your mind.  I wouldn't want that responsibility if I was wrong.

[BillyB]

 It is not a right or wrong thing... just different values.  

I agree.

I just hope it doesn't backfire on you.  

If it backfires and the woman dumps me, I go back to being a single man. Not a bad thing.

If I don't test and my ex takes me to court. Do you think the judge has the right to ridicule me and question my sanity if I brought home a RW after 2 visits and a few weeks face to face time? That is exactly what all of you are going to do if not be a one week wonder. With a test I can give the judge the impression I'm doing all I can to verify the sincerity of the woman before bringing her into the house.

 If you met the perfect woman (in your heart) and she found out, I hope she isn't hurt and insulted like I was.

My perfect woman doesn't want a fool but a man who would vigorously protect crap from entering into his or his family's life. If she wants into the family, trust is earned just as I have to earn her trust.

Just food for thought.  I have no desire to change your mind.  

Your comments are welcome. You disagree but you're not making me out to be a monster.

I wouldn't want that responsibility if I was wrong.

Don't worry, I won't let anyone run my life. It is my responsibility and if I decide to make a life with a woman and she says she is devoted to only me after a few weeks face to face time, a simple test will prove honesty and faithfullness of the moment. What are the options? Blind stupid trust and if she turns out to be insincere, I may be in for many years of bad marriage, ugly custody battle for the kids, never being able to see my kids everyday, and expensive divorce.

I've never cheated on a woman I made a commitment with. I'll get an "A" on any test administered and it won't insult me.

Many guys and RW make a commitment to each other after one or two visits totally a week or a few weeks. Most people will think they are idiots ready to make a life together without verifying honesty and faithfullness. That's usually accomplished over lots of time. How are you going to learn if your RW is honest and faithful and she with you? 10 more visits at 2 weeks a piece for a total of 4.5 months face to face time? 4.5 months face to face time is on the low end of a  decent amount of time to choose a life partner but for guys like us it's not going to happen.

[Seeker]

I agree.

If it backfires and the woman dumps me, I go back to being a single man. Not a bad thing.

If I don't test and my ex takes me to court. Do you think the judge has the right to ridicule me and question my sanity if I brought home a RW after 2 visits and a few weeks face to face time? That is exactly what all of you are going to do if not be a one week wonder. With a test I can give the judge the impression I'm doing all I can to verify the sincerity of the woman before bringing her into the house.

My perfect woman doesn't want a fool but a man who would vigorously protect crap from entering into his or his family's life. If she wants into the family, trust is earned just as I have to earn her trust.

Your comments are welcome. You disagree but you're not making me out to be a monster.

Don't worry, I won't let anyone run my life. It is my responsibility and if I decide to make a life with a woman and she says she is devoted to only me after a few weeks face to face time, a simple test will prove honesty and faithfullness of the moment. What are the options? Blind stupid trust and if she turns out to be insincere, I may be in for many years of bad marriage, ugly custody battle for the kids, never being able to see my kids everyday, and expensive divorce.

I've never cheated on a woman I made a commitment with. I'll get an "A" on any test administered and it won't insult me.

Many guys and RW make a commitment to each other after one or two visits totally a week or a few weeks. Most people will think they are idiots ready to make a life together without verifying honesty and faithfullness. That's usually accomplished over lots of time. How are you going to learn if your RW is honest and faithful and she with you? 10 more visits at 2 weeks a piece for a total of 4.5 months face to face time? 4.5 months face to face time is on the low end of a  decent amount of time to choose a life partner but for guys like us it's not going to happen.

I raised my daughter (or she raised me) as a single parent (for the most part).  That is why I am sensitive to the situation.  I know how things can be used against another, even if we are trying to do the best thing.  And I also know that can be a reason to wait, which is what I did (for the most part )  So glad she just turned 30....


I also didn't want the stress you are trying to avoid.  So I understand completely.