Life Changes...Part Deux

[Jumper]

Make no mistake, you will be tested in various ways by your woman for various reasons.

certainly !
but if any of the "tests "are truly deceitful and dishonest ,to the point of pretending to be someone else , it would reflect  poorly on her character and integrity.

It's not a question of "if", it's a question of "when"  and when you do get tested, I hope you're not pussy whipped and give her as much mouth as you've given me.

Billyb , I gave you *mouth*?
ok i could have worded "nicer" maybe?

 I pointed out you ,in these cases ,are  acting deceitful ,dishonest.
sure that isn't going to set well.
but you are acting in this way.
 
To you the means justifies the end.
i get that.

you don't get that being  deceitful,
to a lot of men or women ,
is not offset by some somewhat abstract possible future threat to your family life.
(that you wouldn't determine throughout an engagemnet?)
You already acknowledge the pursuit itself is what would draw critism,, and lack of face time.
You don't change this with a secret profile test ,you weed out what should be the  obvious   people of low character.

as far as the bolded part.. lol billyb.

If she played some *secret profile* games , I wouldn't give her any*mouth*,
none at all. I simply would drop her as a romantic interest.

Just like most women would do, if they found you doing the same.

(an yes if she asked why i dropped her , i would clearly tell her why ,but my gues is billyb,
she would know quite well!! and understand ,and yes even resoect my decision.. )

Very few RW, will find the practice acceptable.If even one answers that she does in this thread , then i'll give your advise more credence.


 I am not making you out to be a monster,
I am offering an opinion that having secret profiles , to determine someone you are serious abouts  character ,  isn't good advise to follow.
 

You believe in your methods ,so post them ,and your reasons.

I have a different opinion ,and post it ,with my own explanation.
 

 I think if someone  cannot make  a comfortable decision on a person in the time frame given ,without deceit, then they should certainly not be considering marraige ,or any possible threat to their family situation.

[Ade]

I thought I answered your questions earlier but you two don't seem to get it. I will explain a little more to hammer home the reasons behind the secret profile.

It's my life and I'm responsible for taking care of it and keeping crap out. I have two kids. I have an ex wife that has no problems taking me to court to decrease my time with the kids. The last thing I want is to explain to a judge why some RW is in my house when I had little face to face time. Do you understand what society already thinks about men like us?

Like us?   You mean weird middle age men that go hunting for 18 year old virgins in other countries? No, that's like you Billy, not like us normal people.

You don't have to be the smartest guy in the World, nor the richest, handsomest, nicest guy, or drive an expensive car(I take my dates out in an 11 yo Korean made car), but if you're a well rounded individual, you will catch a lady easy. Many women are just hoping to find a normal decent guy without any strange behavior, beliefs, or attitude.

Billy, seriously, do you honestly think most people would place you in the "normal guy without strange behaviour or beliefs" category?  Really?

[Ade]

I think if someone  cannot make  a comfortable decision on a person in the time frame given ,without deceit, then they should certainly not be considering marraige ,or any possible threat to their family situation.

Exactly! If someone does not have the time and resources to date internationally as it should be done, then they shouldn't be doing it in the first place. Half arsing it and then using deceptive testing methods is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a reasonable or acceptable replacement for spending as much time as is necessary to learn everything you need to about the person you are dating. How the hell can anyone justify lying to someone like this - and he's supposed to be religious. Damn, what a hypocrite.

[Faux Pas]

Exactly! If someone does not have the time and resources to date internationally as it should be done, then they shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

As it should be done? By who's standard? Yours? What is the way it should be done in your opinion SJ?

Half arsing it and then using deceptive testing methods is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a reasonable or acceptable replacement for spending as much time as is necessary to learn everything you need to about the person you are dating.

I don't necessarily disagree with you here. In fact I agree with it totally but, thats the way apparently you and I would do it but, one size does not fit all.

How the hell can anyone justify lying to someone like this - and he's supposed to be religious. Damn, what a hypocrite.

Your a smart guy, can't you express your point without resorting to name calling?

[Ade]

As it should be done? By who's standard? Yours? What is the way it should be done in your opinion SJ?

Nice try there FP. And you know very well what I mean by, "spend as much time as necessary". 

I don't necessarily disagree with you here. In fact I agree with it totally but, thats the way apparently you and I would do it but, one size does not fit all.

Your a smart guy, can't you express your point without resorting to name calling?

Name calling? The guy is a hypocrite. Or would you like to point out to me where any Christian faith thinks that lying and deception are good practices? Or are you talking about my "weird" comment? Maybe you want to check up the definition of that and then come back to me and try to tell me that Billy isn't it.

[daveyj]

Whew.  Having skimmed through this thread I now have a headache.  My summary? 

BillyB likes attention from a lot of different women in real life, and he seems to find it.
BillyB also likes attention from a lot of different men on this discussion board, and he seems to find it.

I'll leave you all to it.

[Faux Pas]

Nice try there FP. And you know very well what I mean by, "spend as much time as necessary". 

Yeah, I know what you mean but, your statement is a bit arrogant and very misleading. I was able to spend close to 2 months a year while I was wooing my RW but, I know some guys don't have that much time. I was also envious the the guys that boasted spending much more time than that.

Name calling? The guy is a hypocrite. Or would you like to point out to me where any Christian faith thinks that lying and deception are good practices? Or are you talking about my "weird" comment? Maybe you want to check up the definition of that and then come back to me and try to tell me that Billy isn't it.

So you're a Christian now? Unless you know his faith and what's in his heart, you have no clue if he is a hypocrite or not. I don't agree with his tactics either and I've told him so but, I would stop short of calling him a hypocrite. Besides, name calling is against the TOS of RWD and you are a smart enough guy to express your opinion without having to call him names. You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.

[tim 360]

 Besides, name calling is against the TOS of RWD and you are a smart enough guy to express your opinion without having to call him names. You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.

Who wants to catch flys anyway?

[GQBlues]

You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.

Well, flies are actually aversive to honey, thus you're likely to see flies hovering over anything 'sour' or 'rancid' before you see one hovering over honey.

As for true and blue Pecker Beckers and whatever other names players or ladies' man call themselves these days, they would not dream of wasting their time shaking the dong on the same woman more than once, let alone play some silly secret profile games. Time is always at a premium to these guys....too many women, too little time to find time posting on message boards days, nights and weekends.   Just a hunch as I have no experience ever being a playah. Likely AJ doesn't either ( ) ...

[Faux Pas]

Who wants to catch flys anyway?

heh heh just a metaphor meaning it's "OKAY" to be nice

[Jumper]

Ok-
I didn't mean to start a pile on ,  other than to question one aspect of billyb's "method"

I do think healthy debate about it is what this board is for ,, i'd love for the RW to chime in with their own thoughts.

  Looking back I do not feel I did a good enough job of seperating my comment on the one part of the  method from the "person".

Overall it is just a comment ,or stance , on a small part of his methods,
not the individual!


Personally, I would not use secret profiles, and posted why.
If i felt i needed to do so, I simply wouldn't pursue this ,so i have some pretty strong feelings on the topic.

I should have left it at that,
but  i did want billy to clarify his position, so asked some rather
pointed questions,and also questioned his justifications or reasoning behind them.

billyb knows posting these types of things will raise some eyebrows or some legtimate questions on particular points.
it does bring discussion out ,so is a good thing,
and he does a good job of not taking it personally  ..

 

[tim 360]

Ok-
I didn't mean to start a pile on ,  other than to question one aspect of billyb's "method"

I do think healthy debate about it is what this board is for ,, i'd love for the RW to chime in with their own thoughts.

  Looking back I do not feel I did a good enough job of seperating my comment on the one part of the  method from the "person".

Overall it is just a comment ,or stance , on a small part of his methods,
not the individual!


Personally, I would not use secret profiles, and posted why.
If i felt i needed to do so, I simply wouldn't pursue this ,so i have some pretty strong feelings on the topic.

I should have left it at that,
but  i did want billy to clarify his position, so asked some rather
pointed questions,and also questioned his justifications or reasoning behind them.

billyb knows posting these types of things will raise some eyebrows or some legtimate questions on particular points.
it does bring discussion out ,so is a good thing,
and he does a good job of not taking it personally  ..

 

In regard to Billyb's "secret identity" methods--I do find it kind of odious, especially since this is someone he has been in contact with for some time but has no face to face relationship with. 

But I can also play the devils advocate too.  About 8 years ago a friend of mine told me he thought his wife of just 2 years might be having an affair.  I questioned his reasoning which was pretty cloudy.  I thought he was paranoid.  He wanted to borrow a tape recorder I had so that he could record activity on his phone line.  I didn't like this.  I loaned it to him because I thought he was overly paranoid and I knew he would get nothing and that would be that.  Well, was I ever wrong because she was and he had it all down on tape within a few days.

[Daveman]

heh heh just a metaphor meaning it's "OKAY" to be nice

Why, yes it is!  It's interesting that even with the derisive nature of some of the commentary, most has been fairy well contained. And surprisingly enough, not a single post in this thread has been reported. Seems that there CAN be some opposing opinions and views without going totally off the deep end.  

Whether I agree with BillyB or not, I am rather impressed with his ability to express his opinions and take the heat of response without losing his cool.

[Faux Pas]

Why, yes it is!  It's interesting that even with the derisive nature of some of the commentary, most has been fairy well contained. And surprisingly enough, not a single post in this thread has been reported. Seems that there CAN be some opposing opinions and views without going totally off the deep end.  

Whether I agree with BillyB or not, I am rather impressed with his ability to express his opinions and take the heat of response without losing his cool.

I agree. I like Billy and he's done a swell job of maintaining his cool in the face of some high criticism. I think it's pretty damn sneaky doing what he does. I find it usually winds up much as tim alludes to. If one is looking for dirty laundry, they usually find it, just not the way they expected.

[GQBlues]

I agree. I like Billy and he's done a swell job of maintaining his cool in the face of some high criticism.

I concur. In the years I've virtually known of BillyB, he's been a very steady guy. Agree or disagree with him, the one constant thing with him, IMO, he'll engage the subject and nothing more.

His proven steadiness I commend.

[BillyB]

I pointed out you ,in these cases ,are  acting deceitful ,dishonest.

AJ, do you have a problem with the CIA and other similar organizations from other nations? One of their jobs is to gather secrets for the benefit of their nation. If countries did not have intelligence agencies, they'd be left in the dust. While they are sneaky to some people, they are doing it to benefit their nation's peoples.

Most of us going to the FSU to find a wife are going to make our decision in one or two visits with a few weeks face to face time. If you want to give that woman 100% of your trust, then most people will look at you as being foolish. I don't think RW are that naive to give 100% of their trust to their man. Why do you and others give 100% trust to a RW you met for a few weeks? The answer is because of the prize between her legs. If it were a man, you would not trust him so quickly.

Very few RW, will find the practice acceptable

Why did you say that and later say "i'd love for the RW to chime in with their own thoughts."?  Are you sure or not sure what they will say?

I mentioned the secret profile on page one of this thread that has been going on for almost 2 months. RW have commented on other issues but not on the secret profile because it probably doesn't bother them much. That lack of reaction is the answer to your question.

Who's likely to not pass a test? Criminals, abusers, playboys GCGs, pro daters, scammers, and other low quality people. A few minutes of your time can separate the liars from the honest people or one can trust blindly and gamble years of their life with a potential insincere person. Who wants to be in the same position as tim360's friend? If there was a time before marriage if he could test his woman to see if she'll cross the line, he should have done it. Over the years, there has been a few guys like tim's friend who posted here what their insincere RW had done to him. Many RW have already experience insincere RM so they are not going to trust so easily.

RW have more to lose. They may have kids with the guy and if he's a jerk and the marriage ends in divorce, she will have a hard time getting support from him. A RW will be in a new country and if she feels she can't make it on her own, she may feel forced to stay in a bad marriage to an insincere man.

Maybe you will leave your lady if you're tested AJ but it is easier said than done. A woman may test you with an email. She may call you certain times of the day to check you or go through your phone menu. She may be watching you when you aren't looking. Who knows how she'll test you but I doubt she will give you 100% trust when you two first meet. Trust has to be earned.

middle age men that go hunting for 18 year old virgins in other countries

I'm not doing the hunting. The 18 still has to convince me why I should visit her. She's doing a good job so far. I didn't ask but she already sent me lots of photos of her, her family and friends. She's opened and sharing her life with me.

Billy, seriously, do you honestly think most people would place you in the "normal guy without strange behaviour or beliefs" category?  Really?

SJ, if all of us at the forum laid it all out and had our life stories where anybody could read them, I'm sure I have less to be ashamed about than most people. Just because you're not talking about all the stupid things you've done doesn't mean you're normal or better than most people here. Maybe you have a good reason to keep most of your past quiet if your reputation is at stake?

The 18 yo who wants me probably is better than most of us, especially when we were her age. What's more amazing than letting her mom read our 6 months correspondence is the fact that once her mom has access to her account to read our correspondence, she can read all her daughter's correspondence to other men. The fact she gave her mom access to her account tells me she is not ashamed of what she writes to people. I am sure she gets a lot of nasty letters and propositions at her age. The way she conducts herself with me, I'm sure she conducts herself well even with the worst of people.

point out to me where any Christian faith thinks that lying and deception are good practices?

I never said I was proud of my secret profile or that I'm happy doing it but it is not lying and it's not used to hurt people. Organizations like the CIA can hurt people but I think it's necessary for the welfare of the nation. The profile is only rarely used for when someone makes a bold promise to me. I have never used it on any lady I currently date in America.

 I've said I believe in God but I never said I was perfect yet you use me to beat down Christianity. SJ, you are so focused on beating down any religion that you fail to see any good. That is your loss.

If someone does not have the time and resources to date internationally as it should be done, then they shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

How can international dating be done normally? It can't. You can rationalize all you want but it can't unless one moves to the others city so they can date normally with uninterrupted face to face time. I'm sure you would like to say that you spent the correct amount of time getting to know your RW wife but I bet you I got more face to face time with many of my current dates than you with your wife and I'm still not ready to marry any of them. Time is one factor getting to know someone. Intelligence is another and if a guy or woman doesn't have intelligence, then no amount of face to face time will help if one can't tell the difference between sincere and insincere.

BillyB likes attention from a lot of different women in real life, and he seems to find it.

Having choices is better than have one or no choice. Just like the animal World, people are jockeying to find the best mate and having choices improves the chances of finding a good one.

BillyB also likes attention from a lot of different men on this discussion board, and he seems to find it.

It has been interesting and I did expect some negative reactions. Although much of the reaction has been negative, I can't say I hate it. Beating me down does nothing against what I've written. If some guys wish to make counter arguments, they should give the readers here some examples that work for them in dating or in their marriage but nobody wants to speak up. The truth is most guys and gals here don't spend a significant amount of time with potential mates to truly understand them yet we want to believe they deserve 100% trust. Lying to yourself will impact your life worse than a secret profile. Also by marrying quickly we take risks and being risky when it comes to choosing a life partner certainly isn't smart. Some can point the finger at me as if I'm stupid but a whole lot of people in society will point the finger at them if they knew what they were doing giving 100% trust to virtual strangers..

I'm a calm guy for the most part. Some RW have told me they like me because I can handle them. I haven't yelled at a RW in 5 years but that ended last week. One RW was crying over something that wasn't important....again and I told her to quit crying. She got angry at me that I was not listening to her so I yelled at her that I've had enough and told her many times she's wasting many of her emotions over the little things. She smiled and said she liked my attitude towards her.

[Ade]

I mentioned the secret profile on page one of this thread that has been going on for almost 2 months. RW have commented on other issues but not on the secret profile because it probably doesn't bother them much. That lack of reaction is the answer to your question.

You seem to be mistaking no response as a sign of agreement. My bet is that more often than not it's just apathy especially when you write so damn much. Most people, myself included just can't be bothered to debate you point for point - and trust me on this, there are a lot of points you could be debated on. 

I'm not doing the hunting. The 18 still has to convince me why I should visit her. She's doing a good job so far. I didn't ask but she already sent me lots of photos of her, her family and friends. She's opened and sharing her life with me.

Of course you're not hunting Billy, in the same way a duck hunter sitting in his blind isn't.

SJ, if all of us at the forum laid it all out and had our life stories where anybody could read them, I'm sure I have less to be ashamed about than most people. Just because you're not talking about all the stupid things you've done doesn't mean you're normal or better than most people here. Maybe you have a good reason to keep most of your past quiet if your reputation is at stake?

By "not normal" Billy, I mean by average standards as that's how "normal" is usually defined, and 40-year olds chasing after 18-year old girls isn't and neither are some of the more weird and wonderful relationship ideas that you have expressed here.

The 18 yo who wants me probably is better than most of us, especially when we were her age. What's more amazing than letting her mom read our 6 months correspondence is the fact that once her mom has access to her account to read our correspondence, she can read all her daughter's correspondence to other men. The fact she gave her mom access to her account tells me she is not ashamed of what she writes to people.

If this is true it tells me that this isn't a normal 18-year old girl or mother for that matter.

I never said I was proud of my secret profile or that I'm happy doing it but it is not lying and it's not used to hurt people. Organizations like the CIA can hurt people but I think it's necessary for the welfare of the nation. The profile is only rarely used for when someone makes a bold promise to me. I have never used it on any lady I currently date in America.

Of course it's a deception, a lie! It doesn't matter that in your mind you aren't hurting anyone, it's still a lie. It's a rather simple concept.

I've said I believe in God but I never said I was perfect yet you use me to beat down Christianity. SJ, you are so focused on beating down any religion that you fail to see any good. That is your loss.

In my life I've met many people who claim to be religious and who claim to follow the preachings one god or other. Few in fact live up to their claims and some are blatant, in your face hypocrites. It's got little to do with religion and more to do with those people that claim one thing and do something entirely different.

How can international dating be done normally? It can't. You can rationalize all you want but it can't unless one moves to the others city so they can date normally with uninterrupted face to face time. I'm sure you would like to say that you spent the correct amount of time getting to know your RW wife but I bet you I got more face to face time with many of my current dates than you with your wife and I'm still not ready to marry any of them.

I spent more than 6 months living with my wife before we married. And this wasn't "dating" or vacation time either; most of it was normal every day living time and it was more than enough for us, if it hadn't been, we would have spent even more time together before we married. Maybe others would just need a month or three; that's their choice, and only they can say if it's enough or not.

Time is one factor getting to know someone. Intelligence is another and if a guy or woman doesn't have intelligence, then no amount of face to face time will help if one can't tell the difference between sincere and insincere.

So what are you saying Billy; that the end justifies the means? That it's okay to lie and deceive when you're too dumb to figure out the motivations of a woman or you don't have the financial or time resources to do it? Maybe your flexible morales bend for other things too, huh? Where do you draw the line Billy?

You know, what I say is that some people shouldn't get on that plane to begin with.

.

There is so much wrong with so many of your posts Billy but I, like just about everyone here do not have the time, energy or interest to debate you on every single point you make. But don't assume for one minute that silence equates to agreement.

[Boethius]

Do you plan on sharing your correspondence with ladies with your mother, Billy?

[BillyB]

That it's okay to lie and deceive when you're too dumb to figure out the motivations of a woman

How do people figure out motivations of others? Sometimes by evaluating how they act under different situations. Situations can happen randomly or purposely.

How many times a day do you lie SJ? Did you ever go to the FSU and apply for a tourist visa when if fact you weren't there for tourism but a girl? Since you lied, should all women dump you and you are labeled "Not marriage material"?

Because you don't like me, I will use a RW as an example. Since people have read Aloe's experiences in another recent thread that she had all kinds of men make her promises, it's obvious that these things happen but it's not easy to filter out 100% of the insincere men no matter how smart a woman is. A guy may come and visit a RW and they get engaged. The RW is about to make serious life changes leaving everything behind she's ever known, going to have children with the man and live all life with him. If she makes a secret profile or ask a friend to write her man to make sure he's telling the truth she's the only one, would you hate her as much as you do I because she is protecting her life make sure she's marrying an honest man? Maybe the guy will ignore other women or he may tell them he's already engaged to a wonderful woman and thank them for their interest or maybe he will flirt and be willing to meet with other women while he's engaged. We could do our best to evaluate a person with face to face time but if they are going to do something insincere, they will do it when they think other people aren't looking.

In America we have VAWA and IMBRA to protect women from insincere men. They are paid by our tax dollars and IMBRA for the most part is very ineffective. I don't blame anybody for wanting to take action themselves to protect from getting involved with insincere people. Think about it, what kind of people are most likely to lie to trap a person to commit to their life although they have no intention on commiting their life to that person?

Not everybody can live months with their RW as you did. In America, that is not possible since k-1 doesn't allow it and it's not practical to tell guys to quit their job and go live with a RW for 6 months. It's not the man's problem alone. RW are equally at fault if they want to get married so quickly without knowing their man but if this is the way people want to find love, that is their choice and how they protect themselves is their choice too. While you criticize guys and gals(assuming you're not being gender bias) at this forum for doing things their way, most of society will criticize you for taking chances marrying out of your culture.

Do you plan on sharing your correspondence with ladies with your mother, Billy?

I quit letting my mom run my life a long time ago. If a man is still sucking on his momma's titty, a RW will no be happy with him. My mom thinks everyone finding people overseas with little face to face time is crazy including me. Only after explaining the behavior patterns of some of the RW that led me to choose to meet them, she now thinks I'm able to make good choices.


Correspondence with the 18 yo is still going well. I will continue to share some so newbies can get a good idea how a sincere women who is into a man writes and behaves.

She asks about my children a lot in messages and phone calls. She sends me photos of her family and friends and recently sent me her bikini photos. She does not put those photos on the internet for other men to see.

When I ask about her cooking, she said "what aboyt cooking.. i dont cook much , but i an do this.. i know how to make sweet things and other one..i like too much pasta(italian kichen) but i ma not prcect.. i have to study:-))" I like that she's willing to learn.

When I ask what we will do in Kiev if I come, she said "well you asked me what we gonne do in Kiev.. maybe we will go to my city and Lvov.. i want you to see this wonderfull place..we will stay together:-)) and "i just want to show you this place and i dond have any family there , so we should live few days in simple hotel..and then i will show the mountains will be wonderfull..i want to make this hollyday god for you and me.." The mountains in that area are the Carpathian mountains. I mentioned if we go, we should take a train 1st class to Lvov but she said it's not necessary to go 1st class. Based on those words and renting a room in a simple hotel, she is already looking out for me and my money.

When asking her opinion about certain things in life she said "i trust you..you know the life better than me and you can help me to understand some things in life.." She is willing to value her man's words. It's good that she understands this because I could never marry a young lady who knows it all. Will she value any man's words? I don't think so. I like the slow pace she took with me and probably hundreds of other men writing her to make her decision on one man and I like the fact she got her mom involved to verify she made a good choice in me.  

She tells me she's shy and modest with this statement "well one more thing about me is i am very shimefacedly.. i hope you will forgive me:-)"  

I called her today and she apologized for not writing me a long letter today. Her internet isn't working and she traveled across the city to her friends house to use the internet to write me a quick letter. I told her don't worry about writing me when her internet is not working but she said she will continue to write me. I like the effort she is making and the fact she is willing to travel across the city to write and make me happy. When I call her, she always thanks me and tells me to call anytime. Even when there is a lot of noise in the background or she is with her friends, she doesn't try to get rid of me. She talks with joy and is very kind and polite when she speaks. She is not afraid to apologize to me when she thinks I may be upset and although she's apologized a few times, I've never been upset with her or felt she done any wrong. She gives me no drama.

I made the decision to visit her in August because she is showing me that she is very interested in me and a family oriented woman. I think she has great potential to grow up to be classy, elegant, polite, respectful and 100% lady. She reads a lot of books and studies economics and politics. She is book smart but I think she has potential to be wise in life too since she's done none of the stupid things young people do. She avoids alcohol, cigarrettes, drugs, or anything that could get her addicted or in trouble.

I will do a VO for her. She will have all my attention if she wants it. Although I recommend guys to do VM, I only do so because I don't think they have the quality correspondence with any one woman to give all their time to one woman. Many guys get excited getting letters from scammers and they have yet to understand how a sincere woman who's into a guy writes and behaves. VO is not risky for me because on my last trip to the FSU, just walking the streets I got 3 phone numbers from talking to 9 RW in less than a day. My odds would be better but some of the women didn't speak English and some were already in a relationship. Besides walking the street, I use a dating site to get dates too. In a later post, I will give more details about that trip and how easy it is to get multiple dates each and everyday in the FSU.

[Misha]

I like the fact she got her mom involved to verify she made a good choice in me.  

Perhaps it is due to the fact that you are likely her mother's age, perhaps even older than her mother 

[Jumper]

AJ, do you have a problem with the CIA and other similar organizations from other nations? One of their jobs is to gather secrets for the benefit of their nation. If countries did not have intelligence agencies, they'd be left in the dust. While they are sneaky to some people, they are doing it to benefit their nation's peoples.

Billy, lol  you are really stretching here..
You'll spare me the comparisons of national security issues ,
to normal personal relationships ok ?

When the women you are trying to figure out ,are considered your enemy, or an enemy of state, then you'll have a fair comparison ?

Since you brought up a national security or military concept in this :
as often the ethics of officers are strained in odd situations and the need to clearly separate duty, ethics , and personal life is not unusual-
 
I'll propose a little test for clarification:
Do you think *secret* profiles on a dating site, would  reflect conduct befitting an officer?
 
Do you think subterfuge to gain intelligence on a known or suspected enemy of state ,is unethical for an officer, or breaches his sworn code of conduct?
 

Most of us going to the FSU to find a wife are going to make our decision in one or two visits with a few weeks face to face time. If you want to give that woman 100% of your trust, then most people will look at you as being foolish. I don't think RW are that naive to give 100% of their trust to their man. Why do you and others give 100% trust to a RW you met for a few weeks? The answer is because of the prize between her legs. If it were a man, you would not trust him so quickly.

I thought the horse was dead..lets beat it  a few more times..

Again try to refrain from saying *WHY*  I would do anything in particular ,
you simply don't know . It's quite presumptuous.Nor am i naive.
I am pretty dang sure ,that  i've been around the block as much as
billyb, the worlds most interesting man 
 
In any case I do try not to presume to know *why* you do things..
i may question them, or ask why..

but Ok , so when have I ever trusted someone 100% in a few weeks billyb?

Giving a person the "general" and perhaps even *cautious*, benefit of the doubt ,
 is certainly different than trusting them 100%.
 Nowhere did i state that  i would trust some random woman  100% in a first letter. .or even first meeting.

What I stated was i ,personally, would not use deceitful methods to extract information or test her.
Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?
 I would use an honest approach of observation and getting to know the person  through direct questioning ,normal conversations, and time spent.
Until a point i trusted them completely. I would expect the same in return.

you see billy, i trust that time and effort in honest communication and observation would show me the persons character and integrity.

If i made your choice , i wouldn't feel clever, i'd feel like i violated my own integrity to find theirs out.
Truly a no win scenario for me.So it simply doesn't interest me.

everyone is different billy.

Why did you say that and later say "i'd love for the RW to chime in with their own thoughts."?  Are you sure or not sure what they will say?

LOL billy..
Actually  i'm rather POSITIVE what they will say in general.

i want them to chime in , because you obviously feel my thoughts on the subject are inaccurate. So you need to hear it directly from RW.
You say RW repsect your thoughts on this , but i highly doubt you have come clean with anyone you had serious interest in , ,that you had tested them in this fashion.


also billy b, i'm open minded enough to admit i could be wrong ,
on how RW feel on this topic.
If most of the RW agree its a completely normal and acceptable method during the start of a relationship period , i'd like to hear that .
It's something i would like to know.So i would like to hear their thoughts on the topic.

 

I mentioned the secret profile on page one of this thread that has been going on for almost 2 months. RW have commented on other issues but not on the secret profile because it probably doesn't bother them much. That lack of reaction is the answer to your question.

no its a non answer, there is  a difference ,,
you will use a lawyers cheap court tactics  now?

hey for fun put up a poll. .:lol:

RW have more to lose. They may have kids with the guy and if he's a jerk and the marriage ends in divorce, she will have a hard time getting support from him. A RW will be in a new country and if she feels she can't make it on her own, she may feel forced to stay in a bad marriage to an insincere man.
Maybe you will leave your lady if you're tested AJ but it is easier said than done.
A woman may test you with an email. She may call you certain times of the day to check you or go through your phone menu. She may be watching you when you aren't looking. Who knows how she'll test you but I doubt she will give you 100% trust when you two first meet. Trust has to be earned.

She shouldn't! and I would never expect that!!!
True trust is earned over time.
They do have more to lose, and they should take the time they need to decide.

You can surely separate the difference  between using intentional  deceit to test someone,
and  observation of thier character and actions over time to gain /earn trust?
 

[Ranetka]

If I have found out a man tested me in that matter during initial stages of correspondence I would have drop him. If he did it when we were committed it would make me seriously rethink our comitement. The need to use deceit is a character trait I personally am not comfortable with so discovering this in "my man" would make me to re-evaluate his character and re-think the whole thing over.

P.S. I do not lie anymore.

[Miri22]

BillyB, you have mentioned several times that any potential mate would need to be a mother figure to your children - how old are your kids? An 18 year old girl seems hardly fit or capable of being a stepmother.

[Miri22]

I apologize in advance but BillyB you seem off the rails of judgement.. So to speak.

[Daveman]

"do these jeans make me look fat?"



"No, babe, it's not the jeans"

or

"those jeans make you look friendly.  In fact, they are the most friendly looking jeans I've seen"   :evil:

...do we have to debate the petty stuff or can I focus my energy and limited time on writing about my experiences? If I write some more experiences, I promise you there will be new stuff for you to get you fired up and comment on...

There does appear to be at least one successful marriage between a 30 something and a 19y/o
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=11871.0

So, if he communicates for a few more months, it'll be legit.   

Seems the topics of her age, secret profiles, deception/lies have been covered. Moving on to the next chapter does appear to be the most prudent option.  Let's see what's next.