Life Changes...Part Deux

[Boethius]

Billy makes himself look bad all on his own.  He doesn't need GOB, or me, for that.

Billy asked me if I thought he was immoral, and I responded.  This is, as far as I know, a forum.  Am I to lie?  He continued asking me, and I continued responding in the affirmative.  However, I haven't bothered to acknowledge his last three baiting posts, nor will I respond to Billy further.

Your grandparents' situation is irrelevant.  How many divorces were filed in that day and age?  Did your Grandmother come from a poor region of a poor country, in which anywhere from 80-90% of the populace, when polled, responded with a desire to leave?  How many 19 year old girls, in your Grandmother's day, went to college?  What choices, other than marriage, did women of that day have?

Like you, Telly Savalas used to tell a story of the success of his grandparents' (arranged) marriage.  His Grandfather was in his fifties, his Grandmother was 13 when they married.  Perhaps that should be added to the "success stories" Billy can emulate?

As for GOB, my response had zero to do with Billy, in fact, it wasn't even posted in this thread originally.  I'm entitled to my opinion, you to yours.  Evidently, you believe a forty something man contacting a minor is A-OK.  I do not.

[Hammer2722]

  Evidently, you believe a forty something man contacting a minor is A-OK.  I do not.

Yeah, you obviously missed the part where she is not a minor. You are a very smart woman I believe but I think your emotions in this subject and badly clouding your judgement. I think you should distance yourself from this discussion. You have already made your feelings made very clear.

[Boethius]

I see you modified your post after my response.
 
A was a minor when he contacted her.  Go back and read my posts.  That has been my primary point.  No emotions clouding my judgment here.  Many others have made the same point.
 
You can massage that particular fact any way you wish, but it doesn't change the truth.

[Hammer2722]

Actually, if anyone is massaging the truth its certainly you. I have read this thread from post 1 very carefully.

[Boethius]

You have your view, which is that Billy is a great guy, I have mine.  Go back and link a post of mine which supports your assertion.

Do you believe Billy telling me my minor age daughter should be groomed to accept a middle aged man is perfectly normal as well?

[Boethius]

I have two friends that went through almost the exact same tragedy. One was exactly twice her age (18) and the other was 22 years older than her. As you can see, very young girls. In addition, both came from small towns and didn't have much worldly experience.
 
The first guy was actually pursuing a woman closer to his age and was using a translator. The translator convinced my friend that the woman he was writing to was not a very honorable one. Then she suggested a nicer girl; her daughter. I remember him asking me about this situation and all I did was cringe. I didn't tell him anything negative nor positive. All I asked him was to think this clearly. Well, they married. They were married for 7 years and had a son. Then the 7 year itch happened. Suddenly he was despised by his wife. He is still scratching his head as he tells me they had 7 beautiful years together. I saw them together and they looked very happy. They are now divorced. I saw her not so long ago at a gathering of RWs and my, she looked used and abused. Very sad eyes. In addition, she was dressed like a tramp. It didn't help that her very good friend is Natasha Fatale. Boy, do people don't hide their dislike of her.
 
The second guy was contacted by the girl woman and after a few months dating they got married in Ukraine. They were married for 7 years and had twin girls. Then the 7 year itch happened. Same exact thing. She dispised him, started fooling around with every Tom, Dick and Harry and they ended divorced. She is always dressed for the kill and maybe for a very good reason. Someone has to pay for her bills.
 
Two almost exact cases, big age difference with very young girls. Very sad.
 
My advice to you, watch out for the seven year itch. I should know. My first wife was 21 when we married; I was 34. She moved out after seven years of marriage. It seems this happens to the very young women.

People change the most in their twenties, I think.  Girls who came from the FSU likely experienced two years of culture shock, and moved on when they were comfortable with themselves and their abilities to survive independently.

I suspect having young children actually hastened the demise of your friends'  marriages.  As anyone who has raised kids knows, young children are a blessing, but they also demand time and energy.  That time and energy is not put into the marriage.   

[Muzh]

People change the most in their twenties, I think.  Girls who came from the FSU likely experienced two years of culture shock, and moved on when they were comfortable with themselves and their abilities to survive independently.

I suspect having young children actually hastened the demise of your friends'  marriages.  As anyone who has raised kids knows, young children are a blessing, but they also demand time and energy.  That time and energy is not put into the marriage.

Bo, did I say they were surviving independently? Both are still trying to have their exes to support their lifestyles even though both males have custody of the children. IOW, no alimony and no child support. The first one is considering going back home to become an interpreter for a mafia boss. This is no joke. When my friend told me, I almost fell on my ass. That's not the same nice girl I met years ago.

[Boethius]

Yet they have, somehow survived, have they not?
 
As you are no doubt aware, in Ukraine, mothers always obtain custody of children.  It is plausible that having children was part and parcel of a plan to have an income source.  I'm not saying that's a certainty, just a possibility.
 
Don't the husbands have to support them as their sponsors into the country?
 

That's not the same nice girl I met years ago.

Actually, she probably is.
 

[Muzh]

Yet they have, somehow survived, have they not?
 

IF you call that surviving. Yes, they are existing.
 
 

As you are no doubt aware, in Ukraine, mothers always obtain custody of children.  It is plausible that having children was part and parcel of a plan to have an income source.  I'm not saying that's a certainty, just a possibility.
 
Don't the husbands have to support them as their sponsors into the country?
 

Not any more. They became American citizens. And you are absolutely correct about them considering the traditions in Ukraine where the mother always end up with the child(ren).
 
Now, here is something that is rather perplexing. The MIL of the first guy is totally on his side. He brought his son to UA and he stayed with MIL. When daughter brought her son, she stayed with a friend because the mother would not permit her to stay in her house. My wife says the embarrassment is too much for her (MIL) to bear.

[Gator]

On one hand we have a self-aggrandizing Billy pursuing what seems to be one of the more foolish paths for going forth and conjugating .  This has prompted the following types of responses:
 
1.  Members warning Billy of the high risks.
 
2.  A few  members sharing their personal knowledge of  similar December-May marriages, expressing how the couples they knew had a long, blissful marriage.
 
3.  The self-righteous who condemn vehemently BillyB's individual choices on moral grounds.   Instead of debating increased risks, the detractors feel it is their purview to demonize Billy, even suggesting he is a libertine, a dissolute man. 
 
No. 1 and 2 used to be what RWD was about. I wonder how many of the self-righteous feel that Billy's story should be censored.
 

[Ade]

On one hand we have a self-aggrandizing Billy pursuing what seems to be one of the more foolish paths for going forth and conjugating .  This has prompted the following types of responses:
 
1.  Members warning Billy of the high risks.
 
2.  A few  members sharing their personal knowledge of  similar December-May marriages, expressing how the couples they knew had a long, blissful marriage.
 
3.  The self-righteous who condemn vehemently BillyB's individual choices on moral grounds.   Instead of debating increased risks, the detractors feel it is their purview to demonize Billy, even suggesting he is a libertine, a dissolute man. 
 
No. 1 and 2 used to be what RWD was about. I wonder how many of the self-righteous feel that Billy's story should be censored.

Why would anyone want to censor it? When all is said and done, I think it will be a shinning monument to the folly of self delusion.

[chivo]

OK. Now how about another 10 pages of the same old same old?
 
I get the part that this is a forum where everyone gives their opinion but, really how many of you like listening to a broken record? I mean at some point you just have to skip it.
 
Bill(y) is a big boy. She is of legal age. Next!
 
How about this, let's see what happens. And how about everyone leaving their morals out of it. More breaking news, the world does not revolve around anyone's particular morals no matter how self righteous anyone thinks they are.
.
Is there anything more pompous and arrogant as to place one's own morals onto someone else?
 
There hasn't been one fresh take on this subject in ages, not one. Yes, Bill(y) is just as much to blame for this as anyone.
 
So let's see if I can offer up a fresh take for the OP, how about dropping the "y" and changing your name to "Bill". I mean no ultimate male would be caught dead being called Billy, Jimmy, Bobby etc. in public after the age of 25.
 
How does this sound? Ladies and gentlemen introducing the President of the United States, Billy Clinton   
 
 

[Gylden]

 
I don't know Chivo, what about Willie Nelson, or Bobby Kennedy?
 
LOL

[Anotherkiwi]

I don't know Chivo, what about Willie Nelson, or Bobby Kennedy?
 
LOL

Jimmy Carter?  And in Russian, if they were being talked about, anybody would be Bobye, Billye, Barackye...Chivoye?!!

[Turboguy]

 
Besides Steamer, viking, turboguy, tfcrew, glyden and forgive me if I left anyone out, are married guys that don't seem to be on your side expressing so much negativity towards what others do.

Billy, I would be a hypocrite if I was that critical of what you are doing.  I may think it is high risk and that there could be better choices but in the early parts of my search I corresponded and met a few who were "teenagers" so I have no right to condemn you.  Actually in the first decade of my search the only two women I met who really seemed like they sincerely were looking for a good man to marry and try to build a happy life with were "teenagers.  The older ladies I met were either wacky, desperate or scammers.   At the time I was a few years older than you are now. 
 
When I first started thinking about an overseas women I would guess that I was about 51.  I first wrote some in South America and then looked in Asia.   The youngest of the women I corresponded with in Asia was 16.  There were things about her age that appealed to me but the age also concerned me.  In the end I decided that she was too young.  I never did make a trip there so it was a moot point anyway.  About a year ago a couple of the women I had written in the past found my facebook page.  They are all married now and wrote merely as friends but Annie, the one that was 16 is married and has a 10 year old and lives in total poverty.  Personally, I am glad I never persued it but I can't look at her life and feel I protected her from anything by rejecting her because of her age. 
 
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that many things that are immoral are also illegal.  If you start judging people on morals where do you stop.  If illegal and immoral are similar how many of us don't do something illegal.  If you buy something on Amazon and there is no sales tax, legally you must declare this and pay the tax to your state.  How many of us do.  If you don't you are breaking the law.  How many would cheat on their taxes if they had the opportunity.  Personally I never found a benefit to hating someone or having anger.   The more positive feelings you allow yourself to feel and to think about the better off you are.  Bad feelings will eat away at you.  I prefer to reserve my negative thoughts to people who really deserve it, rapists, killers, pedophiles etc.  I prefer to set my own moral standards and try my best to live by them and don't care to judge others on theirs as long as they are not overtly evil. 
 
 

[Hammer2722]

OK. Now how about another 10 pages of the same old same old?
 
I get the part that this is a forum where everyone gives their opinion but, really how many of you like listening to a broken record? I mean at some point you just have to skip it.
 
Bill(y) is a big boy. She is of legal age. Next!
 
How about this, let's see what happens. And how about everyone leaving their morals out of it. More breaking news, the world does not revolve around anyone's particular morals no matter how self righteous anyone thinks they are.
.
Is there anything more pompous and arrogant as to place one's own morals onto someone else?
 

Well said Chivo!!!! Well said!!!!!
 

[diverboy70]

http://www.freepersonals.ru/profile?id=402160;
 
Does this guy posts on RWD too? (hint - look at his age requirments)

I just got this message from the guy in question "HELLO GAY BOY, DID YOU LIKE READING MY FUCKING PROFILE???? "
Since I am registred on that site he could see that I watched his profile.
 
So not only does he got the looks, he seems to have the brains to go with that! 

[GQBlues]

LOL, BillyB adds an occasional log into the fire and the wildfire rages on.
 
He's become everyone's favorite bad habit whether folks like it or not. Everytime he posts on his thread, just like nicotine addiction, folks light up knowing full well it's bad for their health. Takes a couple of puffs, relaxes, then sleepily acknowledge they just can't help it...
 
So many things in the sub-culture of MOB is pretty funny to watch actually. This is just one of them. The fact is, the MOB is the mother-of-all 'Gaps'. Age gap is just one of many whether folks want to believe that or not. There's cultural gap, language gap, spiritual gap, morality gap, economic gap, academic gap, societal normality gap, etc...gaps are undenibaly predominant in these relationships.
 
Then to make this even more interesting, you have thousands of WMs trekking to FSU citing how, despite these obvious 'gaps', they find' compatability' and 'love' beyond any shadow of doubt within one or two weeks of FSU vacation time. Of course, these happen with women who generally possess higher level of physical appearance than the men who pursue them...call this baby, beauty 'gap', LOL.
 
All of these 'gaps' being primal in these encounters and yet men proclaim complete 'compatability', much less 'love' in a matter of a week, even days? Heck, some men are even fully convinced this to be true even before meeting the gal in person...LOL.
 
Yup, just like smoking...people like to ignore certain risks just for the momentary pleasure and satisfaction. Some folks will burn with this decision sooner than others will, but make no mistake about it, the risk is inherent whether folks, or even mighty BillyB, acknowledge it or not.
 
In the end, as always, if you can't resist the quick fix, and if not for your health then your sanity, read the warning labels and quit tweaking reality.
 
We are ALL standing over that silly 'GAP' soap box...It seem rather silly to be throwing stones at one another over a 'gap'. That's all.
 
An aside: BillyB, I thought you said on another thread your gal did something irreversible and that you're no longer getting hitched? Is it true? (What did she do that was irreversible, what? she got older?  . If it isn't too personal, I'd like to know)
 

[Muzh]

An aside: BillyB, I thought you said on another thread your gal did something irreversible and that you're no longer getting hitched? Is it true? (What did she do that was irreversible, what? she got older?  . If it isn't too personal, I'd like to know)

Actually, he was referring to A having her 19th B'day. Therefore, it would be impossible (irriversible?) for him to marry an 18 yo.
 
BTW, nice post.

[Faux Pas]

Actually, he was referring to A having her 19th B'day. Therefore, it would be impossible (irriversible?) for him to marry an 18 yo.
 
BTW, nice post.

Ditto

[Maxx2]

Ditto

I liked it too.

[HiTech]

In the end, as always, if you can't resist the quick fix, and if not for your health then your sanity, read the warning labels and quit tweaking reality.

I would say this is the primary issue that keeps me coming back to this thread. I get to read a never ending stream of the most outrageous reality tweaks I have seen come out of one person.

HiTech

[Nat]

Remember when I criticized Sculpto for taking a book he created showing photos of himself dancing nude and then showing the book to girls at discos in the FSU?
 
Do you remember your reply to me? You said it is ok because his photos are artwork.

Now how could I possibly miss that?! 

On topic: you know what, this thread has been developing SOOOOOO slow lately, that by the time Billy and A decide to marry, she won't be neither a teenager nor a gilr of college age any more, so I think everybody can stop worrying about morality of the situation

[Donhollio]

  Quote from: BillyB on June 02, 2011, 06:44:29 PM <blockquote>
If anybody is worried I'm going to marry an 18 yo RW, you need not worry anymore. That WILL NOT HAPPEN. An event occurred in the past month and what has happened is irreversible. I can't change the past nor will I try to change the past because it's not worth my time and effort. My fiancee had a birthday. She's not 18 anymore.

</blockquote> 

I'll give a more detailed report when I got more time but for now I'll say my fiancee, A, adores and respects me more than ever. She respects the way I conduct myself and appreciates how I take care of her since she left Libya during the war.
 
Here is a photo of A during Easter celebration. I usually cut mom entirely out of the photos but this one I wanted to show the Easter basket A made.

Billy do you really believe your girl weaved that basket? Do you... really?  Take a very good look at it, and give yourself a moment to ask where she learned her sweatshop skills. Or maybe ask her what type of wood she used and how it is made. 
 
 I quoted a couple of the important things you have said with regards to you fiancee, first you say your not going to marry and then go on to post that you will still marry. Since no one is asking, could you tell us how it got back on track?

[BC]

 
 I quoted a couple of the important things you have said with regards to you fiancee, first you say your not going to marry and then go on to post that you will still marry. Since no one is asking, could you tell us how it got back on track?

Donhollio,

It was a play on words - it's impossible for him to marry an 18 year old now because she just turned 19.