My Stupid WOVO trip to FSU

[GQBlues]

LOL. Yes, and I also believe it true that it is arrogant, ignorant, and stupid for an Argentinian-American, or Brazilian-American, or Mexican-American, or Peruvian-American, etc...calling themselves such respectively if in fact distinction of regional nationality is an act of silly arrogance, ignorance, and stupidity.

That's akin to calling themselves American-American, eh?
 

[Gylden]

Maybe you guys are on to something here, if everyone started doing this the Russians could be called either Russian-Asians, or Russian-Europeans!!

   (not for you FP)

[tim 360]

I have an analytical mind as some may have already noticed. So let's analyze this.

United States of America is the name of the country in question.

As often occurs in life, people tend to abbreviate names for convenience sake. Not for patriotic sake.

So U.S.A. over time was shortened to America. Some people will say they are from the U.S. but few will have the patience to say the United States of America or even the United States.
It just takes too much time and effort.

OK now we know how it came to pass that United States of Americans came to call themselves Americans.

Now lets talk about the _appropriateness of this term 'Americans'.

As others have pointed out, there are many other countries who also lay claim to the name American, namely; Canada, Mexico, Guatemala, Belize, Honduras, El Savador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Venezuela, Columbia, Equador, Peru, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina, Uraguay, Paraguay, Brazil, French Guyana, Guyana and Suriname.


Hundreds of millions of people can rightly call themselves Americans if they so choose to do so.

This distinction or 'problem' arose simply because the United States of America chose to include America in their name AND also chose to become lazy about how they call themselves.

Had Canada chose to call itself Canada of North America or Canada of America, then they may well also have ended up calling themselves Americans at some point.

Now some may be scratching their head and saying why did the U.S.A even bother to include America in their name?
After all, how many other countries were named the United States in 1776?
But that's an entirely different story.

The joke is on all of us that we use America or Americas at all because it is a historical error.  IIRC Amerigo Vespucci was an Italian who worked for the Portuguese back in in the 1490's and very early 1500's.  He was a traveler and navigator etc.  He had been to Brazil a few times but was not the Captain of the ship.  But he wrote some wonderful letters to the King about all the great discoveries he made and although he was an explorer he is said to have embellished alot.  Everyone believed him though.  A German who had heard of his exploits included him in some famous book he wrote and decided to name ALL of the New World on the maps he drew....America.  Americus being the Latin of Amerigo, he used the feminine...America.  A couple years later the German wanted to change the name because he now realized Amerigo was really a minor player but...the name America stuck.  

He didn't discover the America's or draw the maps, he was the navigator who wrote letters about what he'd discovered in Brazil.  And for that he had 2 continents named for him.  Pretty funny, when all that was named for Columbus was Columbia and Columbus, Ohio.  But who cares 'cuz the Vikings probably beat them both by 300 years...how about Daneland?

[Shadow]

As the Russians beat anyone by 10.000 years I guess we should call it Russia.
All you guys are doing here is getting the women of your old motherland. 

[GQBlues]

Hot-dengged!

All these times I always thought it was Bjarni Herjolfsson discovered what is arrogantly known as the Americas   I used to believe credit was given to Christoper happy-go-lucky Columbus for the simple reason that commerce ensued after concluding his 'discovery'. No?!? I could be wrong of course as our lessons were taught from coconut husks and banana leaves.

Isn't it arrogant for the indigenous peoples of the Hawaiian Islands to call themselves 'Americans' notably because a) they're not in the same American continent, and more so b) they'll be soon be annexed to the Russian arctic?

The nerve of these arrogant folks!

[Gator]

Before we were popularly known as Americans, the Europeans referred to us as Yankees - supposedly started by the Dutch.

This term originated with the New England residents in the 18th C. and was advanced by the song Yankee Doodle Dandy.  It lost favor due to the influx of non-Anglo Saxon immigrants.

Later, Yankees stole my great-grandfather's pigs during their invasion of Tennessee.

If you refer to Webster's, the third definition of the noun  American is "a citizen of the United States."

IMO, American captures us because we have derived from almost every people.

[Seeker]

I am so glad he was named "Amerigo".  Can you imagine what it would be like if he was named Lipschitz or Glasscock?  Okay, those are family names not first names, but you get my point.

I have known people with those names.  I am sure they wouldn't want continents and a country named after them.

Personally I think of myself as an American.  But whenever I use that name, I think back to those conversations from the 70's and 80's that put this thought in my mind.  Western-hemisphereian maybe?

The Sphinx has spoken.   

Feel free to laugh at me.  I do.   

[Shadow]

Before we were popularly known as Americans, the Europeans referred to us as Yankees - supposedly started by the Dutch.

It was derived from the most common Dutch names : Jan-Kees
One of the many Dutch contributions to the American vocabulary.


As for Russians in America, you only have to compare the native Siberian people with the natives of North and South America to get where they come from.
I am pretty sure that some very interesting links in culture, language and other things exist.

[brad5959]

what the heck is WOVO and WMVM??  I am assuming one is where you go to meet just one lady, and the other is when you meet several ladies.  just wondering what exactly W. O. V. O. etc. actually stand for.

thanks

[SANDRO43]

what the heck is WOVO and WMVM??  I am assuming one is where you go to meet just one lady, and the other is when you meet several ladies.  just wondering what exactly W. O. V. O. etc. actually stand for. thanks

Check the RWD Glossary (Main Menu at top left) .

[Jack]

Hey I/O, had late evening, walking out the door catching our chartered bus from Kharkov to Lugansk. Will reply back to your questions once I get settled into flat in Lugansk.

Hello I/O, I want to apologize for it taking so long to get back to you.  I was hoping to have some time to reply back to you while in Lugansk.  A few times I had to make the choice,..."Do I reply back to I/O now, or enjoy Lugansk".    Well, we know what choice I elected.  



Also I want, need, to add a disclaimer.   At the end of my post will be some photos.  If you are one who is offended by my posting of photos, I ask you not to look at the photos posted below.   If you are one who is strongly committed to writing one, visiting one, I would strongly suggest, and urge, you not to look at photos.

Jack: Honestly I thought by now you'd have learned there is no way to win these stupid p!ssing matches over VO vs VM.  

I/O  nothing that I write, or you write, is going to change the mind of men who wrote one woman, married that woman.  It is the way he did it. If his marriage was successful it is the way he is going to strongly recommend men to proceed.   I/O  nothing that I write, or you write is going to change the mind of men who wrote many women and married the woman he felt best about.  It is the way he did it. If his marriage was successful it is the way he is going to strongly recommend men to proceed.

Men are going to recommend the method and way they prefer.  Plan and simple.  Many of those men who write one woman, meet one woman and married one woman, never had the experience in meeting a second or third Russian women, are going to be steadfast against recommending guys to write many, meet many.  It's just not the romantic thing to do, it is not they way our mom's had raised us.  But in all fairness mom, were not in Kansas anymore. When mom raised me to see, date, one woman at a time it was generally a woman in the same city I lived, not a woman, or women, half way around the world.

So I/O you are correct in that I learned many years ago their was no way of winning any type pissing match as to write one or write many, how many years age difference is to many years, meet her in her own city or a different city, does she speaking English really matter, and so on.

As many of us do a few times a year, we post things we have posted in the past that support, or are opposite, of a current particular thread.

No pissing match, just in this case, as someone who has done both, wrote many women, visited many women, wrote one woman, visited one woman, I write a post that is in agreement with this particular poster, which of course upset's those diehards who recommend write one, visit one.

Furthermore, some of your argument, coming from your length of experience could be much better formed than "trust me, I know" type offerings...

I/O  much of my own personal experience very much mirrors that of my clients and I expect many, most, other guys here (rwd) who have done both wovo and vmvm.

  Unfortunately most wovo do not have a back-up plan.  Maybe this trip will help at least one future traveler to have such. If so, this trip report served a good purpose.  

Are you sure about that or is this a biased guess?

No, unfortunately it's not a biased guess I/O.  

I/O when a guy contacts me and he wants to write one, visit one, I pretty much tell him I think it's both a waste of my time and his. But if all he needs, or wants from me is to greet him at the airport, get him to the city he wants to go to, get him a nice flat in the center of the center and an interpreter, I can do that for him.   I promise you I/O  I urge to these men, even to the point of offering my time and services for free, if he will just have a back-up plan, have a couple of nice ladies as back-ups who want to meet him in this city in case it does not work out with the one lady he is going to see, and I/O most guys who are in the write one, visit one mode do not want to discuss or even consider a back-up.  Most men say they thank me for my concern but they have a special feeling about this one woman, most men say they realize they should not put all their eggs in one basket, but in this case, because she is a "special" woman, they are going to proceed with writing one, visiting one.  And  I/O  85% of all these men who wrote one, visited one, later tell me it did not work out, they wished they would have had a back-up plan.  And 15% of these guys, they are always quick to point out to me that they are so happy with their decision to write one, visit one.  

Most guys realize and acknowledge their is a risk involved with wovo but almost all guys think they are going to be the exception. Very few are.

  ding-ding-ding,...late breaking news here SJ. Most American blue collar workers have exactly this, two weeks a year vacation.  Even more reason to develop a good wmvm game plan.  

Nope, even more reason to stay home. Sorry Jack but I am with SJ at this minor juncture. VM is not the answer to lack of available time.

I/O let's address reality here.   Do you have any idea as to the rough percentage of men who are involved with the pursuit for a Russian/Ukraine bride who even know about these Russian discussion boards?  I would be curious as to what you think this figure might be?

I/O a great percentage of American men, not Canadian's, Englishmen, German or French men, but American men have two or three weeks vacation a year.   Most of these men will take two weeks vacation, and those with another week, will combine it with the Christmas/New Years holiday, or some other holiday, to greatly extend the time they have.  And a fair number of men who only have 2 or 3 weeks vacation will even take some extra time off without pay to spend time with a lady they think could be his future Russian/Ukraine bride.

So if you and SJ think that if an American man should stay at home if all he has is two or three weeks vacation a year then half of all the American men going today would not be going.  If this is your opinion and what you think, not a problem, it is your expressed opinion.  Because I know that so many men who have interest in a Russian/Ukraine bride only have two, or three weeks vacation a year, we have to make the most of the limited time they have. And, in my opinion only, going to see one woman during this limited time is not the best use of one's limited time.

 Although there are many cases where wovo has worked, there are many more cases where it has failed miserably.    

Do we have any independent numbers to verify this?  

The only numbers I have are from my now close to 2600 clients I have had.  As stated above, 85% of all the men I have known who wovo did not succeed.

   80% of all the guys I know who started out wovo changed to wmvm after the first or second failed attempt. On the other hand I never had a client or friend who started out wmvm who changed to wovo until after he found his woman.  

Obviously we'll never be friends and that's OK but call me a "known" if you wish. Did VO, did VM and then some, several times and had a ball but in the end I recognized the reality of where the women I liked to associate with sat on this issue. From there on in it became an annual (sometimes more often) trip to meet someone if I chose and do my own thing if it didn't amount to anything (which at times it didn't).  

I have no reason not to consider you as a friend I/O.  

I/O there will always be exceptions to everything.

There will be happy marriages between two couples where their are 30 years age difference.  Most of these marriages don't stand a chance, but their will be exceptions.    There will be happy marriages where the women never spoke a word of English until after she arrived in America on her K-1.  There will be Russian/Ukraine ladies who have a real visa to visit America.  There will be those men who wrote many women, visited many women and decided they prefer to write one, visit one. There are and will be exceptions to everything.

You are now the first person I know of who wrote many women, visited many women who decided he preferred the write one, visit one method.  Not a problem I/O.   I am glad that method worked for you.   You and I both have something in common I/O. We both wrote many woman, visited many woman. We both wrote one woman, visited one woman.  Unlike you I swore after doing my first and only write one, visit one, I would never do such again.   If however I had fallen in love with the one woman I wrote and meet, and I married this woman, I am sure I would have a much different perspective as to wovo and wmvm.

[Faux Pas]

Nice pics Jack! 

[Jack]

Thanks FP

[blackjacks53]

Jack, are those pictures from the latest spring tour to Ukraine?

[Jack]

Sorry blackjack, just noticed your question.


Yes, those are photos from the most recent spring tour.

The second photo you see, I was walking through Independence Square and saw this young man.  First thing I noticed was the Playboy bunny tattoo on his neck. I thought to myself " Damn, this young man will go through the rest of his life with this tattoo. Does he realize what he has done?".    A spur of the moment thing, I decided to take his photo.

The next two photos are also of Independence Square, but across the street from where this young man was sitting.  I took these from the balcony of my flat.

I upped, is that a word, upped, anyway I turned up the zoom on my camera and thought it a little strange no one was in the center of this monument, except police.  It was loaded with police, as you can see.

While I had the camera's zoom all the way up I started going over the crowd.  Some of you who have been to Kiev may have noticed the little police stand on Khershaytk in front of Independence Square. It has a mirror colored blue tint to it so you can not see into this structure. At first glance one would think this is small, large enough for only a couple of people. Surprise!  I became very curious with the flow of traffic going in and out of this building, I started taking photos, a lot of photos. Their were a lot of strange things happening. Here are just a few of those photos.  As there are a couple of individuals here who are offended by my photos I am going to post more photos of what was going on in and out of this little police structure on the   http://russianwomenadventure.com  site.

The last photo, ....finally, the Odessa Opera house restoration is finished.  It took years!  I heard one of the reasons why it took so long was they ran out of money.  I was so happy to finally see it finished.  It is one of the most beautiful opera houses in all of Europe.  I have heard from an acoustics point of view the only opera in Europe better is in Vienna.

[Vaughn]

If you are one who is strongly committed to writing one, visiting one, I would strongly suggest, and urge, you not to look at photos.

What - is checking out your photos going to make someone go blind?

[Jack]

nawwww Vaughn, more than likely just piss them off.   

[acctBill]

Jack taking photos of beautiful young Russian and Ukrainian women really isn't that uncommon.  Go into any area in a large Russian city that has a lot of beautiful young women and watch the men who have the cameras, tourists or locals, and it's not too difficult to determine where the cameras are pointed. 

For the most part the women in these areas know that they are being photographed and some even dress accordingly.  I've even seen some women offer to be photograped, no charge or for a drink.  These women aren't stupid and aren't being exploited. 

[Jack]

Hello Bill,

Jack taking photos of beautiful young Russian and Ukrainian women really isn't that uncommon. 

I have heard that.

Go into any area in a large Russian city that has a lot of beautiful young women and watch the men who have the cameras, tourists or locals, and it's not too difficult to determine where the cameras are pointed. 

Yes, I have noticed that.

For the most part the women in these areas know that they are being photographed and some even dress accordingly.   

I think most these women are dressed to photograph the second they walk out of their flat.

I've even seen some women offer to be photograped, no charge or for a drink.  These women aren't stupid and aren't being exploited. 

Wonderful!    Glad to hear and I agree with you 100%

[BC]

When drooling over the pics, just remember 'Truth in Advertising'

And no, I'm not a prude.

I doubt any of the women in such posted pics are remotely interested in some foreign relationship.

They're doing quite 'fine' on their own IMHO.