Its mostly about finding a wealthy westerner, isn't it? :)

[jeff9556]

I also remember watching a British documentary about one of these marriage agencies where the reporter asked the woman running the firm if the economy of Russia and Ukraine was a major reason for the girls to search for a western man.
She replied that it wasn't, and that the economy in countries such as Latvia and Estonia had actually become so good that they didn't even have any offices there anymore. Then she bit her tongue as she realized what she had just admitted.

It would be extremely naive to assume that  a reduction in women seeking overseas marriages due to improvements in the economy equals all (or even any) FSU women marrying because they are in some way greedy/desperate/shallow etc, which is in a way what you are implying. This would be any easy conclusion to draw, but not in any way necessarily the whole picture, or even true, not without data to back it up.

If we look at countries with improving economies we see things such as alcoholism, mortality, crime and disease start to track down, and things such as optimism, certainty and happiness start to track upwards. I would tend to think those factors all play a pivotal role in women choosing to marry locally, and while these are certainly driven by an improved economy, they do not necessarily mean previous generations of women did not want to marry locally, perhaps they were simply being pragmatic with regards to raising healthy families and having a better life (health, education, opportunity etc) - as opposed to the implication these women were merely greedy gold diggers prepared to do whatever it takes to lead a charmed life...

[ML]

It would be extremely naive to assume that  a reduction in women seeking overseas marriages due to improvements in the economy equals all (or even any) FSU women marrying because they are in some way greedy/desperate/shallow etc, which is in a way what you are implying. This would be any easy conclusion to draw, but not in any way necessarily the whole picture, or even true, not without data to back it up.

If we look at countries with improving economies we see things such as alcoholism, mortality, crime and disease start to track down, and things such as optimism, certainty and happiness start to track upwards. I would tend to think those factors all play a pivotal role in women choosing to marry locally, and while these are certainly driven by an improved economy, they do not necessarily mean previous generations of women did not want to marry locally, perhaps they were simply being pragmatic with regards to raising healthy families and having a better life (health, education, opportunity etc) - as opposed to the implication these women were merely greedy gold diggers prepared to do whatever it takes to lead a charmed life...

Your thinking is a bit muddled and contradictory here.

Most all the reasons you are using in an attempt to put the FSUW on a pedestal are actually related to economic issues.

There is a direct and strong correlation between women willing to think about men from another country and the economic conditions in their own country.

However, this very logical action does not translate to mean they are gold diggers.  As pointed out  in other threads, most of these women fully intend to work and advance their own careers in their newly adopted country.  They just want to be in a country whose economy will allow them to better reach their desires and goals.

[jeff9556]

They just want to be in a country whose economy will allow them to better reach their desires and goals.

That is exactly what I am saying...

I'm not putting anyone on a pedestal, that is your opinion but not the intent. Nor am I muddled, its a very clear sociological argument. Economics drives decision making...

...perhaps they were simply being pragmatic with regards to raising healthy families and having a better life...

Re-read the OP, the post takes a thin jab at FSU women wanting to immigrate for economic reasons and IMO insinuating some sort of deception is at play...

...Then she bit her tongue as she realized what she had just admitted...

My post counters the somewhat popular notion (that FSU women are gold diggers) with a reasoned argument that there's more to it.

Slightly off topic but this thread is all about language - even the title is a bait and switch tactic...

Its mostly about finding a wealthy westerner, isn't it?

Suddenly becomes...

...It's really all about getting into western Europe...

[Ade]

...It's really all about getting into western Europe...

At most, I think that vast majority of FSUW would put "Western Europe" on the end of a statement like, "I want a husband I can love, trust, respect and build a life with in..."

So it's not all about getting to a specific location for the majority or at the very least they would prioritize love over location. Of course, there are always those women that think nothing of trading themselves for a lifestyle and will target the men/location that can give them the most regardless of whether they actually those men or not.

[mies]

old topic, and Andreas haven't been posting for a while. but i'm still amused by his revelations. In case he is reading this forum still:
 
 

I would think that women would be more reflected and actively search out guys who are winners instead of just getting drunk at a night club and find a "fun" loser to go out with.

there are women who are in active search of "winners" instead of having fun. And they are called.... BINGO! Gold diggers! 
 no, of course I am somewhat exaggerating. Very few women are specifically looking for losers. but you got my jest, i hope. 
 

As the narcissist that I am (and you probably have a point here) I actually think that I shouldn't have to stroll night clubs and bars to find women; it should come more naturally than that, like a side effect of being an alpha male. Yeah, I'm arrogant, but that doesn't mean that I'm wrong.

1 and 2 - oh yes you are.. yes you are ..  3 - that depends about what you are wrong or right.
 http://www.youtube.com/embed/4mBP37e0nWg

To me it seems that western women aged 18-30 are more interested in fun "party guys" who are losers with a capital "L" than searching for men that are marriage material. After they've had a couple of kids with these good-for-nothing bums and find out that being a single mom isn't a hoot, then they change their attitude (at age 38).

have it crossed your mind that you are exclusively attracted to party-girls?

OK, so I'm exaggerating to make a point, but I don't think I'm way off here. In the mid 70s the average age for women bearing their first child in Norway was 24.
Today the average age (at least for women in the Oslo region) is a whopping 32!

oh God, another one dreams to control female uterus. You'll find many like-minded men among Russian Orthodox priests. I don't know if they are racists, though.
 
 

When you take into account that most of the immigrants live in this area the stats are even worse, as immigrant women have children at a far earlier age. Norwegian women seem to pretty much live the same party life style at age 30-35 as they did as teenagers. For someone who hated that life style and thought of it as an un-productive waste of time even as a teenager its completely unbelievable.

I don't see how the case of uneducated jobless woman living on benefits and having children at early age is better than working and partying educated woman who has children when she is mature, knows what she wants in life, and knows what she can give to her children.

 

Yeah, I know its easy to fall into these traps, but on the other side I'm sick and tired of being CHEATED out of my prize.

anger.
 
 

Let me explain:

When I grew up I was constantly told (in school, by parents, by TV etc.) that if you worked hard, stayed away from drugs, got an education etc. that it would be rewarded. Now I've spent every god damn minute of my waking life the last 10 years working hard to become a trial lawyer, and an elite level power lifter, and I deserve the hot chick waiting for me when I got home from job, dammit!

well, it is rewarded. You have high-paying job and you have big strong body. Who said that reward for hard work and education comes in fair maidens and little copies of you? 
 
 

Instead these girls hang out with "exciting" drug dealers from Marroco, or "fun" party boys from Sweden who works for minimum wage as bartenders so they wouldn't have to get a real job.

I wonder where you find such girls. and what do you find in such girls so attractive that you start talking to them.
 
 

God damn, those skinny Swedish party boys are nuisance. They are just so f-ing metrosexual. What the hell does anyone seen in them. *Shakes head in disbelief"

maybe many women like slim men? Ok, I got it. Moroccan drug-dealers and Swedish metrosexuals alike are bad because they have girlfriends.

This pisses me off, but I'm not going to lower my standards, change who I am or settle for a green card girl either. If I can't have it all, then I'd rather have nothing!

and by "it all" do you mean woman with party-girl's personality and looks who is delivering many children in early age, takes care of the house/home, and serves faithfully your narcissistic self?
 

At this point it seems that Russia have a higher percentage of good marriage material, but that weeding them out from the flock of gold diggers and green card girls could be the project of a life time. As you pointed out - who has that kind of time on their hand?

oj-wej

Yeah, I've always been a fanatic. Its what brought me where I am.

you are right. if you don't know how to handle it, being a fanatic often brings people to being lonely and angry.

This has been mentioned at work as well (for example that time that I worked through the weekend trolling the internet for psychology articles proving that I was right and the court appointed psychologist with 40 years of experience was wrong in a child custody case. Or when I read a nearly 2000 page long commentary edition/encyclopedia on the Norwegian civil process law just for the heck of it. I have been asked - repeatedly - if I'm autistic as a result of this).

remarkable. maybe you were asked about being an autist for some other reasons? like.. some socially abnormal behavior?

It should be noticed that studies show that its nearly impossible to reach elite level in anything - sports, music etc. - without at least 10 000 hours of practice. Even if one is talented, this is the minimum effort required. If you want to be the best, you need to put in maximum effort. Some people call it fanaticism, but that's how Michael Jordan became Michael Jordan, how Steve Young became Steve Young and how Gretzky became Gretzky.

how many hours of practice did you spend practicing to be a pleasant person and a good partner?  I suppose this should also elucidate for you some aspects of your relationship with women.

Being a narcissist and extremely intense is probably also a result of me having fought tooth and nails for everything that I got, and I did it (more or less) alone. I studied alone, I worked out alone, and I succeeded alone:

yes. being narcissistic (if you learn how to handle it) often makes an excellent worker and over-achiever but a poor life partner.

As I've pointed out I have the attitude that everything I produce, every subpoena, every trial, every letter I send out, should bear the mark of quality through and through. If there's room for improvement then it must be improved. Always.

people and children are imperfect. How are you going to improve your hypothetical family? 

As for my training, I go at it with the same intensity.
I severely tore my groin muscle during a work out that actually made a ripping sound that could be heard 10 yards away. The pain was unbelievable. I recovered and came back stronger. Alone.

I busted both my knees and could hardly even walk a flight of stairs for 18 months, but I refused to give up and I came back. Alone.

In May I tore 40% of my chest muscle in half - all the way from the attachment in my elbow to the center of my chest and I ended up in the emergency room and couldn't even move my arm over my head for several weeks (while looking like I had been in a car crash from all the internal bleeding). I'm still not back in the shape that I was, but I force myself to bench press with that torn muscle four days a week and I hope to make a full recovery in January - about 7-8 months after the injury. Alone.

these stories sound painful. what use will have a woman, or a child of your torn muscles 20-30-40 years ahead of now when.. you know.. your body will be losing its restorative potential?

I put myself through all of this to become (one of) the best at what I do, both in the courtroom and in the gym. Am I then supposed to pretend that the "average Joe" who spends his life with a beer can in one hand and remote control in the other is my equal?

you aren't equal. Average Joe doesn't have your job nor your weight-lifter's body.

 

Thanks, although don't expect any progress anytime soon.

if you want to buy women - you will be buying the women who can be bought. If you want women to select you based on other, non-monetary features, you need to develop those features.
 
 Seriously, based on what you wrote, your only resort could be looking for girls in Russian churches. But you must select the most timid, modest, and unattractive girl there.

[ghost of moon goddess]

Andreas wanted to be loved for what he was not!!!!

On one hand, he focused only on the excellent career he made, in order to win attraction of  women, and on the other hand he wanted to be chosen by the «right» woman for being a man of outstanding qualities that, in fairness, he might not possess.

[Gator]

Mies and Ghost,
 
Don't concern yourself too much with Andreas.  His relationship with females was limited to chatting them up on he Internet for casual sex.  One "girl" was only 16.
 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13138.msg264447#msg264447

[Misha]

One "girl" was only 16.

You have to love this quote:

What the hell is wrong with wanting to boink a 17 year old?
Of course I'm "only" 29 and the age of consent here in Norway is 16, but apparently my "teenage project" is still widely frowned upon by my female colleagues. Not to mention my mother!

 


Why would anybody discuss this with colleagues and one's mother...


I can imagine the look on the face of his colleagues as he discussed his intended plans...

[Ade]

Andreas wanted to be loved for what he was not!!!!

On one hand, he focused only on the excellent career he made, in order to win attraction of  women, and on the other hand he wanted to be chosen by the «right» woman for being a man of outstanding qualities that, in fairness, he, might  without a shadow of a doubt, does not possess.

There, fixed that for you.

[ghost of moon goddess]

Gator and Ade.
I see your conclusions are based on a thorough analysis of all his posts.
Thank you very much

[JR]

You have to love this quote:




 


Why would anybody discuss this with colleagues and one's mother...


I can imagine the look on the face of his colleagues as he discussed his intended plans...

Because he actually believes...and until you agree with him that the lamp in the corner is talking you will never understand his perspective.

[kmin]

Andreas,

You may be suffering from one of the following Big Turn Offs with women looking for more than just a one night stand;

The Superficial Air- Head

You are obsessed with the physical and phony aspects of a woman and reject potential relationships with good women for sadly shallow reasons like not big enough boobs, not bootilicious enough, not long enough legs or hair etc. You move from big boobs to bigger boob or smaller butt to a bigger one with no real and meaningful emotional connection with the women you meet or have a relationship with.

The Sexual Adolescent

You confuse everything with sex and only see women as suppliers of sex. Your interactions with women have only one goal – “what can I get in exchange for sex". And when your sexual needs are not met, you react with the emotional tendencies you learned in childhood and never outgrew—sulking, withdrawal, violence, manipulation, nagging, neediness, clinginess, etc. which turns the women off.

The Sophisticated Delusional

You are fully tooled up with the “right" attitude, latest techniques and sociological research about women. You are a smooth talking salesman type, good at presenting rational (and sometimes convincing) arguments. However, you make such a show of yourself that you end up with a reputation as a show-off with no real substance to back up your bragging.

The Angry Reject

You have a lot of repressed anger or extreme bitterness over the seemingly endless hoops you have to jump through to get women to notice you. You have a very difficult time accepting that women ultimately can and do say "No" to men. Your resentment and anger show on your face as a “pinched" look and your body language is a walking neon billboard that says “I hate women". The women give you attitude “we hate you too".

One big question to ask yourself is "Do I have any close friends who are Women?"  If the answer is no than there is your biggest problem.  If you can't even be just a friend with a woman how do you expect to ever be in a meaningful relationship with one? 

Start with the basics and stop having sex with little girls who are way to young.  And yes 16 is too young unless you are under the age of 18.  Plus you are not going to have a meaningful relationship with a girl that young.

[ML]

Andreas,

You may be suffering from one of the following Big Turn Offs with women looking for more than just a one night stand;

Why all this attention and preaching to a man who has not seriously been in this thread for close to a year????????

[Gator]

Why all this attention and preaching to a man who has not seriously been in this thread for close to a year????????

Andreas is a rare human, yet I imagine he has soul brothers lurking at RWD.

[Misha]

One big question to ask yourself is "Do I have any close friends who are Women?" 

I would go farther in this case and have him ask: "Do I have any friends?" with friend signifying more than a spotting partner at the gym 

[Muzh]

Andreas is a rare human, yet I imagine he has soul brothers lurking at RWD.

Gator, I'm glad you said it and not me. 

[Faux Pas]

Andreas is a rare human, yet I imagine he has soul  twin brothers lurking at RWD.

 

[JR]

Why all this attention and preaching to a man who has not seriously been in this thread for close to a year????????

It's called boredom and nothing else to talk about.

[ghost of moon goddess]

It's called boredom and nothing else to talk about.

[Andy G]

I don't think that all FSU ladies are looking to meet wealthy Westerners, when I was on a dating site, the ladies I was in communication with were happy to accept my occupation, respect that I work long hours & that the pay in the UK for the job I do is rubbish, they were also prepared to accept the fact that over here in the UK, our prime minister classes us as the pedophiles of the working class, the authorities & the general public hate us. These women weren't out to escape & look for a rich person. So you may ask why I'm on this site & why I'm still single? Simple, agency fees creep up quite fast, but they don't tell the customer & if I'm honest, I had to tell the ladies that I couldn't keep up with the cost of the agencies, although I accept that they are not in it for the love of it, they don't allow the ladies to pass on their information, they are very restrictive & as such, I have avoided using over priced expensive agencies, my first priority is to learn the language, go across to the FSU meet some ladies & see for myself what the FSU ladies are like for myself.

I don't think for one minute that these ladies are going to up sticks, leave their natural roots behind, leave family & friends for a man with a lot of capital unless they feel that they are going to be happy, after all, a FSU lady living in the USA or here in the UK  is isolated if things go wrong, she has to be sure that the person she meets & marries is the person for her & not just someone who cheats on her, knocks her around but plies her with cash & extravagant luxuries, after all, she may not have the wealth, but she can have all the rest of that & still have her family & friends close by her when things go wrong.

[Faux Pas]

I don't think that all FSU ladies are looking to meet wealthy Westerners, when I was on a dating site, the ladies I was in communication with were happy to accept my occupation, respect that I work long hours & that the pay in the UK for the job I do is rubbish, they were also prepared to accept the fact that over here in the UK, our prime minister classes us as the pedophiles of the working class, the authorities & the general public hate us. These women weren't out to escape & look for a rich person. So you may ask why I'm on this site & why I'm still single?

I can't say I have ever quite seen or heard that term pedophiles used this way before. What is it exactly that you do?

[55North]

Andy G,  as a fellow Brit (English chapter), presently taking a little holiday in Florida to visit his Russian step-sons, I would agree regarding your general points, but I don't get the paedophile thing.
 
Never paid an agency fee to anyone, except maybe a few bob to EM.  Certainly not an issue to this low-earner.

[Muzh]

Is that why you are asexual?

[Andy G]

Faux Pas & 55 North, in answer to your question as to what I do for a living, I am a truck driver, over here we are hated by everyone, we are penalized by the authorities, as in a parking fine in a car is higher because our licence states that we can drive a truck, if I was involved in an accident, my fault or not, the authorities would instantly blame me, my motor insurance is more expensive because I drive a truck, any which way, we lose out, our Prime Minister calls us the pedophiles of the working class because basically, we are considered the lowest of the low.

[Gator]

...our Prime Minister calls us the pedophiles of the working class because basically, we are considered the lowest of the low.

Absurd.  Lower than criminals?  Lorries are needed to deliver to stores essentially everything that we consume in life.