Review/Critique/Roast of HRB/RLM

[BC]

Just a quick factoid that puzzles me a bit.

This thread started back in November of last year.

It is indexed by google and if one searches the term "hrb russian" a link to RWD is in fourth place with a 'see more from this site' that shows this and other threads at RWD referencing HRB. RUA is in 5th place.

This thread is 'only' 18 pages long which is the puzzling part..  It should be in the hundreds of pages if a vast amount of their customers have experienced a problem or feel it is a rip-off.  Both RWD and RUA should be inundated with angry folk..

Where are they?  Maybe most are getting what they signed up for and are happy with that?  Kinda makes sense if the 90% keyboard Romeo rule holds.  That might well be part of the 'marketing plan', but even then I don't notice an influx of fresh members complaining either from the remaining 10%.. -all considered, not even a dribble..  so what's up?

Is all this just tilting at windmills?  The cast seems to remain much the same regardless which google link one clicks.

Oh well..

[GQBlues]

....@GQ. I confess to feeling tempted to declare some of this as the manifestation of Social Darwinism. At the same time, Jumper is correct that one of RWD's greatest values to its members is to enable them to learn from others that have gone before them. My sense is that anyone who spends the time to read RWD will draw the impression that our members strongly discourage the use of certain agency business models.

I am reminded of the fact we have published some basic tools designed to give guidance in such matters. Look to the Footer Menu and one will find an "Agency Score Card" which, if followed, would likely help folks avoid some/many of the issues addressed in this topic. We also publish the "Agency Code of Ethics" as another guide in what to look for in an agency - and by extension, what to avoid....

Dan, I concur with the underlying notion that discussion like this one should, in of itself, serve the purpose of what we try to achieve for those folks venturing anew, or folks who may be interested in a different/fresh (counter) perspective. "Points/Counter Points." It is difficult enough for those who haven't yet experienced what its like to operate outside of your social element and environment, let alone having to choose between lesser evils (services/agencies) without much of a first hand experience with any of them.
 
So discussions like this, on up to actual recommendation/s, hopefully can reach those who may find it useful regardless of their ultimate decisions. In the end, and much we can agree with, it is up to that specific individual to do what *he* personally feels he needs to do, or feel what's suited for him.
 
An aside: I am curious about one thing, specifically what remiel was brave enough to bring to the table (I hope Alex can chime in as well). If remiel succeeded, why not share his first hand experience as a 'HRB for Dummies' sort of thing. Highlight what can be done, what should be done, and how to dodge and duck from the barrage of invites from long-legged delectable maidens. To me that would be more 'helpful' a contribution than simply dismissing it as saying you won't recommend something that proved fruitful for you. After all, in more ways than one, doing so gives substance to my point that for the most part the responsibility lies with the consumer and it really isn't about the HRBs & the Awebs et al...
 

[Hammer2722]

An aside: I am curious about one thing, specifically what remiel was brave enough to bring to the table (I hope Alex can chime in as well). If remiel succeeded, why not share his first hand experience as a 'HRB for Dummies' sort of thing. Highlight what can be done, what should be done, and how to dodge and duck from the barrage of invites from long-legged delectable maidens. To me that would be more 'helpful' a contribution than simply dismissing it as saying you won't recommend something that proved fruitful for you. After all, in more ways than one, doing so gives substance to my point that for the most part the responsibility lies with the consumer and it really isn't about the HRBs & the Awebs et al...

Remiel pretty much stated that it was the encrypted e-mail his lady sent via their correspondence that actually allowed them to take their relationship outside of HRB's sphere of influence. I wonder how much longer or how successful he would have been had she not been able to give him her real e-mail addy?

[GQBlues]

Remiel pretty much stated that it was the encrypted e-mail his lady sent via their correspondence that actually allowed them to take their relationship outside of HRB's sphere of influence. I wonder how much longer or how successful he would have been had she not been able to give him her real e-mail addy?

I understand Hammer but there was that *5 month* period that transpired prior to that point. Those are critical months IMO.

[Chelseaboy]

BC,
   " hrb russian" is not something most people would google when looking for information about HRB.
If you google more realistic phrases,such as hotrussianbrides,or hotrussianbrides scam,or hotrussianbrides scammers ,this thread doesn't even reach the first ten pages.

[Hammer2722]

I understand Hammer but there was that *5 month* period that transpired prior to that point. Those are critical months IMO.

Yes, quite true but considering that she was leaving the agency and moving to another city, her actions were the only thing I think that allowed them to be successful.It quite possible he could have lost her forever had she not taken that desperate action.

[Misha]

Yes, quite true but considering that she was leaving the agency and moving to another city, her actions were the only thing I think that allowed them to be successful.It quite possible he could have lost her forever had she not taken that desperate action.

Yes, and it took 400 pages worth of letters to get there. I can only guess how much these letters ended up costing    Now, let's imagine that Remiel had met someone on EM or a singles.ru or bride.ru. She could have openly sent him her email address, her Skype name, her phone number, pretty much anything within days, not months at a fraction of the cost... Also, I would be curious to know how many women he had to write before finding one who was sincere.

[BC]

BC,
   " hrb russian" is not something most people would google when looking for information about HRB.
If you google more realistic phrases,such as hotrussianbrides,or hotrussianbrides scam,or hotrussianbrides scammers ,this thread doesn't even reach the first ten pages.

Yes, I see, but it would be normal that more content related to 'hotrussianbrides' would be present and rank higher in such a search that includes that term.

I take it their business model changed so I did a search for 'hotrussianbride scam' and restricted results to the last month.  Did not see any real complaints on the first couple of pages but my review was brief.  I would think a company in that market would be doing a lot of search engine optimization to fill the first few pages of results.

Quite honestly I don't think there is much general interest in raising a fuss and doubt grave harm is being done.  Just guys and gals getting their jollies somehow.

I would guess that someone who is really irritated would look for a forum type place to rave on, but really don't see much of that here.  Is there some really active site out there that is showing a lot of recent complaints?

Haven't a clue as to how many customers they have but if they have a lot I'm not seeing the problem on this end and if they have only a few then the impact can't be that bad.

FWIW

[GQBlues]

Yes, and it took 400 pages worth of letters to get there. I can only guess how much these letters ended up costing    Now, let's imagine that Remiel had met someone on EM or a singles.ru or bride.ru. She could have openly sent him her email address, her Skype name, her phone number, pretty much anything within days, not months at a fraction of the cost... Also, I would be curious to know how many women he had to write before finding one who was sincere.

Which is where my curiosity lie, although not the only one.
 
Hammer, based on what remiel said, he had for the most part 'gone through' the HRB passage and was already 'working' with one of their service agencies to get him to the point of selecting his future wife from likely a myriad of selections and/or temptations. That 'passage' is one of the challenging aspect of this service based on what some are emphasizing in this thread.
 
Also, to add, remiel did say the 'switch' didn't occur until that encrypted email, which if I understood him right, happened prior to their meeting. But then he also said he had used the agency services to get him accomodation during his travel, IINM. Did the agency have any *idea* who he was meeting since presumably he and his wife were then in 'hidden' communication?
 
This is why I think it'll be helpful to expand upon.

[Muzh]

Tom, when guys,  including the ones without fantasies, sign up for for those big agencies they are bombarded by women who send them letters. I once made free profiles at some of those sites to better understand them. Out of 300 emails I get from model quality women, average looking women, young and old. How do I tell the sincere women from the insincere? A guy has all kinds of temptation to pay to respond to one or more of the ladies. Thinking he's going to increase his odds by responding an older average looking woman who wrote him first is as much fantasy as responding to a young model quality RW.

<snip>

Actually, very good post there Billy.

[BoozeBaron]

Her branch of the agency was always wonderful to me. They found me cheap rooms to stay in. Never overcharged me for anything. Helped arrange parties and engagement celebrations without too much expense. They were great people and deserve commendation.

Care to share who and where they are?

[Chelseaboy]

Yes BC,
          Another forum member,Neo,was saying that the local agency terps in Ukraine were telling him that only 1 in 250 men from sites such as HRB/RLM and Anastasia actually travel to Ukraine to meet a girl,so from that we can assume most men on these sites are happy to get their jollies just communicating with the girls through these sites,hence the lack of complaints i guess.
No doubt the recession over the last three years has stopped a lot of these men going to Ukraine.
There is actually a current complaint from a man who went to meet a HRB girl in June this year,in the prodaters section on Romancescam.com,but the complaint is about the girl and her local agency in Kherson,not about HRB.

[remiel6]

my wife is from Lugansk

[Gator]

my wife is from Lugansk

 
Excuse me but
 
 
I have a twisted SOH and I am thinking what if you came to RWD BEFORE you met your wife and posted:  I have been corresponding for 5 months to a UW from Lugansk via the HRB agency.  What do you guys think?
 
90% of the readers woulld have told you to cut your losses.  40% would have called you an idiot.
 

[BC]

 
Excuse me but
 
 
I have a twisted SOH and I am thinking what if you came to RWD BEFORE you met your wife and posted:  I have been corresponding for 5 months to a UW from Lugansk via the HRB agency.  What do you guys think?
 
90% of the readers woulld have told you to cut your losses.  40% would have called you an idiot.

I remember joining RWG after I proposed to my wife and was hunting down marriage / immigration info.  My first thoughts.. OMG.. am I getting scammed?

Gator, your calculations are probably spot on, if not a bit conservative.

[Gator]

          Another forum member,Neo,was saying that the local agency terps in Ukraine were telling him that only 1 in 250 men from sites such as HRB/RLM and Anastasia actually travel to Ukraine to meet a girl....

If such is the case, HRB will design its business model to make money from letter writing and selling flowers, teddy bears and chocs.
 
However, it also begs the question:  would 25 of these same 250 men have traveled to Ukraine if they had intially worked with an agency selling memberships rather than correspondence services?  If a  higher percentage of the women were indeed sincere about considering marriage to a foreigner?
 

There is actually a current complaint from a man who went to meet a HRB girl in June this year,in the prodaters section on Romancescam.com,but the complaint is about the girl and her local agency in Kherson,not about HRB.

Yes, but as the general contractor HRB is responsible for its subcontractor and the service/product it delivers.  The HRB CEO was implementing initiatives to improve service, and he promised to return to tell us more.  He has not returned.
 
 

[Chelseaboy]

Well,i think the fact she was on HRB would have been a big no no,but remiel has already explained what happened there.
As for Lugansk,well Jack Bragg and Vinnvinny both recommend that city as a place to look for a serious woman nowadays,with Jack saying Mariupol as the scam centre now,and Vinnvinny saying Nikolaev deserves that title.

[GQBlues]

Well, maybe it's not too late warn him!!!!
 
Remiel, stop it, you're getting scammed!
 
(just kidding, of course) 

[Turboguy]

I think someone would be making a good choice to go to Lugansk.  It was a center for scam agencies but the women there have no higher ratio of scammers than any other city and less than Kiev or Odessa.  Lots of guys get scared of it and won't go which means the percentages are better for those who do go.  I liked Lugansk as a place to search when I was there.
 
I do trust Jack's suggestions of places to go and places to avoid.  He has more experience than anyone

[Gator]

 
The key to understanding me is empathy. I have been dealing with forum personae for so long that I analyze the person in parallel with the situation as a reflex.

Okay Tom, you have my empathy.  Please tell me for what I should empathize and why.   
 
I gather that you depend more on qualitative analysis rather than quantitative analysis. 
 
I do not know exactly what data you examined upon which to draw your conclusions.  Did you take all HRB correspondence for one day and categorize it as:  1) reasonable correspondence between a man and woman trying to get to know one another, 2) Joe Sixpack having R rated fun with pretty girls (or their ghost writer), 3) unsolicited enticing letter from a pretty girl who has done the same with many men,  4)  bald, fat, old and/or stupid (any three) trying to romance a real hottie well outside his league,....?
 
If not, would you care to guess at the percentages?

[Gator]

As for Lugansk,well Jack Bragg and Vinnvinny both recommend that city as a place to look for a serious woman nowadays,with Jack saying Mariupol as the scam centre now,and Vinnvinny saying Nikolaev deserves that title.

Please pardon me as I am old and out of touch.  The irony is what humored me, which works under my outdated misconceptions that Lugansk is full of scammers.

I still had a good laugh even if it was by myself.  I do that a lot. 

[BC]

Yes, but as the general contractor HRB is responsible for its subcontractor and the service/product it delivers.  The HRB CEO was implementing initiatives to improve service, and he promised to return to tell us more.  He has not returned.

Gator,

In business I have learned that there will always be the 10% that are PIA's so best to do whatever necessary to get them off your back so you don't tie up your time taking care of the 90% that you do profit from.

It's a toss up, damned if you do damned if you don't.

I think most agencies that try to compete with the letter/video crowd and concentrates on the 10% are doomed to fail (and there have been a few that tried this approach).  Jack seems to be an exception since his primary business is not the dating/marriage field and he deals with those who are most likely to get on a plane.  I doubt he could live comfortably from tours alone.

IIRC there are some high roller agencies out there, but the sticker price alone is a deterrent for most mortals and have little need to reach overseas. 

Another way of looking at it is that the serious guys are subsidized by keyboard romeos, so why complain at all?

[TomT]

Tom, you tend to blame the customers who want to fulfill fantasies but ALL customers using HRB/RLM mail or video chat system will be bombarded by the young ladies wanting to communicate with them and burn up their money.

... Tom, your investigation of HRB/RLM should have happened in the FSU at random feeder agencies of your choosing.

I blame guys who try to evade responsibility for their own failures. I have no issue with fantasies; we all have 'em.
 
I signed up for a trip to Florida. Travelling abroad was out of the question because, at the time, Nessi was here on a single-entry visa. Even if that had not been an issue, I had no interest in visiting any affiliate agencies. It's well known that corruption is rampant in the FSU; we don't need a man on the ground to confirm it.

[TomT]

You are absolutely correct, Jumper, I should have STFU. Apparently, I'm older but no wiser.

[Jumper]

TomT , lol
 I do respect you for sticking to what you actually  found,
just the facts ma'am.
 I would admit going to their office I would  likely find the same, and have to report the same.
 
 
 This debate is a bit funny in that everyone acknowledges the level of corruption within the FSU affiliate agencies,
yet has differing views on how much responcibilty any large corporate home office is accountable for their affiliates.Or how much they count on them being corrupt?
 
Appears to hinge on perceived *intent*
 
 
GQ-
 I could state how to best *try* and navigate that minefield.
but i'm loathe to send anyone towards a known minefield..
prefer to direct them to greener pastures?
 
One reason,the very basic premise,  how do you tell someone how to sense and detect sincerety somewhat accurately and quickly?
Truth is I don't know how to, yet i've always managed to do so, I can see it in someone readily.. or just lucky a great percentage of the time? Who is to know?
( in that quick context,, I  certainly can miss sincerety  in people of course! so may pass by some that where sincere)
but i'm rarely taken in by insincerety.