Anti-USA propaganda ? Or just plain sick...

[JR]

The only difference between biological children and adoptees is the time required to integrate them into a family and more patience

Wow! How much experience do you have with both natural and adopted children to be able to make such a pat statement?

[Boethius]

I have plenty of experience with my biological children, which I posted about previously.  

I also have a close relative who was widowed in her mid forties.  Her children were grown and on their own, and her husband left her extremely wealthy, so she decided she wanted to do something useful with her life.  She adopted Ukrainian orphans (she speaks Ukrainian, though the orphans she ended up adopting all spoke Russian, not Ukrainian).  She adopted, through the years, six orphans, ranging in age from toddler to 17 at the time of adoption.  Yes, the older kids lied and exhibited other behaviours that a biological child would not, including behaviours that literature will tell you is due to growing up "uncared for" in an orphanage.  But each one of them, with patience and time, dropped those behaviours, and all have blossomed, more or less, in her home.  The oldest child adopted (with a sibling) is now grown and on her own, having completed a university degree.  A second child is finishing trade school, and will soon be apprenticing in a trade.  One is in high school, two in junior high, and one is still in elementary school.

I think the keys were she is very patient, she is a stay at home mother, so could/can devote her full attention to each child, there were no biological children to "compete" for attention/love and she had no stresses with money, or having to go out and earn a living.   She also did a lot of reading beforehand, so nothing was a surprise to her.  Sure, they all have/had problems, but for the most part, they're the same type of problems kids here, living with biological parents, have.  

[mrs.Shadow]

LOL. A Russian delegate came to the Beagley's home to investigate because of the media attention the video generated. Fearing the worst, the delegate left feeling impressed (and relieved) that they are in fact, a very good family and commended the children for their behavior and state.

" Good people caught in a bad situation!"

What is that delegate? His name please and organization he came from...

[mrs.Shadow]

Again, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. You are the type of person who would open the doors of the prison and let everyone go because there "might" be an innocent person inside.

"Go shopping?" Who opened the boutique?

Adoption is not a boutique, but your answered question is exactly the position of americans: Russian children are the goods we can buy, if even adoption Americans take as boutique. And that is why Mrs.Shadow is against allowing americans to adopt Russian children. I am against that Russian children are counted like a piece of chicken meat.

The next thing I would like to point that I am putting here my own opinion on things that are going on, but no way I dropped to the personal flame like you do here. If you think that Russian woman cannot flame back you are wrong. Only I am sure that your emotions will not handle it. So drop the personal attacks and talk to the thread.

[GoodOlBoy]

A good movie to watch about life in an orphanage, which is available on Netflix, is "The Italian".

Marina and I watched it last night (The Italian).
I thought it was a pretty good movie about life in a Russian orphanage.
Thanks Wicheese.

GOB

[GQBlues]

What is that delegate? His name please and organization he came from...

None of the reporting media I read before actually named the delegate. I'm certain by now that it is mentioned somewhere. From what I understand there was also a Russian news crew present during Mrs. Beagley's arraignment.

Anyway, the delegate apparently was from the Seattle General Consulate office. Here is the contact information:

Consulate General of Russia
2001 6th Ave # 2323
Seattle, WA 98121-2522
(206) 728-1910

I'm sure they'll be more than happy to assist and share the details with you.

[mrs.Shadow]

That is what I expected - no names, who is and from where.
I hardly imagine Russian News about "someone from somewhere came from Russian side and disproved the video, calling child abuse "good people caught in a bad situation". Especially starting his own personal investigations with the door opened for him immediately.

This is the real LOL...

Apparently this is the "open media", which I was assured in this thread.

[GQBlues]

That is what I expected - no names, who is and from where.
I hardly imagine Russian News about "someone from somewhere came from Russian side and disproved the video, calling child abuse "good people caught in a bad situation". Especially starting his own personal investigations with the door opened for him immediately.

This is the real LOL...

Apparently this is the "open media", which I was assured in this thread.

Too lazy to inquire? The US ain't Kremlin yah know...if the info was fabricated, the Russians themselves will crying about it, LOL.  

edited to add:
Just as I thought, by now they have the name. It only took a second...

"...A representative from the Russian Consulate in Seattle traveled to Anchorage to visit the Beagleys and monitor the case. Andrey Bondarev said he didn't see any reason to remove the boys from the Beagleys' home...."

http://www.adn.com/2011/01/28/1673257/hot-sauce-wielding-mom-went-on.html

...and you're very welcome! LOL.

[GQBlues]

btw, mrs shadow, I personally, just like you...strongly wish that all adoptions of RUSSIAN orphans by AMERICAN folks will completely, 100% Stop. Sooner than later.

I know for a fact that would make you so proud and happy that those orphans/children in baby houses in Russia will have the very best future in Russia's care. Don't you agree?

[GQBlues]

Here's another one posted 8 hours ago with a bit more depth in terms of what was said by whom.   It is reported that Mr. Bondarev visited the Baegley's home twice. But you may also want to make sure of that because you never know  

Also, a spokesman from the Washington DC consulate office named Yevgeniy Khorishko chimed in in the artcile as well.   Check on that also please just to make sure because you just simply never know...

..and another one: Pavel Astakhov, a Russian government-appointed children's rights ombudsman is also quoted in the article. Again, please check on that because you just simply never know with these evil Americans. 

http://www.brandonsun.com/world/breaking-news/russians-outraged-over-boys-punishment-by-adoptive-american-mother-115263394.html?thx=y

At the bottom of the article, please note the following:

Associated Press Writer Varya Kudryavtseva in Moscow contributed to this story

Please check on that as well because you just never know  

[wicheese]

Adoption is not a boutique, but your answered question is exactly the position of americans: Russian children are the goods we can buy, if even adoption Americans take as boutique. And that is why Mrs.Shadow is against allowing americans to adopt Russian children. I am against that Russian children are counted like a piece of chicken meat.

?????

That makes about as much sense as not allowing people from Belgium to adopt a Russian child because one person in the country can't distinguish between the acts of an individual and the collective good performed by the majority.

I'll be sure to let my friends, who are in the process of adopting a Russian child, know that they should not mistake the child with a chunk of chicken (if I did, they would take that as a HUGE insult as I'm sure they'll love that child as the Shadow's love their two naturally born children).  

[ECOCKS]

Bet this chaps a few folks' ---, "Theoretically, we don't rule out that we could insist on the return of the boy to Russia. But at this point we're not going to," Astakhov said. He suggested that could happen if the family is shown to be unfit to raise him, but he added it's too early to draw that conclusion.

At least there are a couple of sane people involved in the investigation if so few in the discussion.

[BC]

Again, please check on that because you just simply never know with these evil Americans. 

http://www.brandonsun.com/world/breaking-news/russians-outraged-over-boys-punishment-by-adoptive-american-mother-115263394.html?thx=y

At the bottom of the article, please note the following:

Associated Press Writer Varya Kudryavtseva in Moscow contributed to this story

Please check on that as well because you just never know  

From the same article:

Bondarev said all of the six Beagley children looked well and that Beagley promised she would never again punish the boy with her previous extreme measures.

I think that's pretty much the 'bottom line' as far as the Russians or US Courts are concerned.

But yeah, can't trust those RU officials either..

[GQBlues]

There's a very interesting side event going on regarding this case...apparently the video was made as a response to the show's producer's request to 'tape' the actual disciplinary administration of the punishment and send it back to them.

This is the response from a letter of interest from the Beagleys' sent over a year ago under 'Mommy's Confessions' that was to air in hopes of finding assistance and aid on how to manage the boy.

Today, after the viral effect caused by this video, including but not limited to, serious legal consequences facing the Beagleys and the possibility of criminal charges that would likely take the boys from their care, Dr Phil McGraw and it's associates are distancing themselves from the video.

Many are starting to question why Dr. Phil proclaimed Mrs Beagley's actions to be abusive and over-the-top when they in fact were the ones that asked for, and arranged for, the video to be made, and then actually viewed it for a time and decided to air it when they had every conceivable opportunities to come to the assistance of this family instead.

[Boethius]

There's a very interesting side event going on regarding this case...apparently the video was made as a response to the show's producer's request to 'tape' the actual disciplinary administration of the punishment and send it back to them.

This is the response from a letter of interest from the Beagleys' sent over a year ago under 'Mommy's Confessions' that was to air in hopes of finding assistance and aid on how to manage the boy.

Today, after the viral effect caused by this video, including but not limited to, serious legal consequences facing the Beagleys and the possibility of criminal charges that would likely take the boys from their care, Dr Phil McGraw and it's associates are distancing themselves from the video.

Many are starting to question why Dr. Phil proclaimed Mrs Beagley's actions to be abusive and over-the-top when they in fact were the ones that asked for, and arranged for, the video to be made, and then actually viewed it for a time and decided to air it when they had every conceivable opportunities to come to the assistance of this family instead.

I'm not certain Dr. Phil and his producers are distancing themselves from the video.  They didn't tell Beagley to abuse her son.  They asked for examples of what type of discipline was being used, presumably to determine why it was ineffective.  I suspect they were pretty appalled when they saw the actual video.

From your link above:

Show spokeswoman Stacey Luchs said producers routinely accept home videos or ask participants to tape "naturally occurring behaviours and interactions, in order to gain insight" when dealing with family dynamics.

"We were shocked by what we saw, and called for the immediate halting of this behaviour and also referred, at the show's expense, both mother and child for evaluation and treatment with appropriate professionals," she told The Associated Press in an email.

[GQBlues]

I'm not certain Dr. Phil and his producers are distancing themselves from the video.  They didn't tell Beagley to abuse her son.  They asked for examples of what type of discipline was being used, presumably to determine why it was ineffective.  I suspect they were pretty appalled when they saw the actual video.

"....At first, Byrnes was shocked and angry when someone showed her the video of Beagley punishing the boy. But then she heard more about the Beagleys interactions with producers of the "Dr. Phil" show.

Byrnes said she believed the Beagleys contacted the show to get additional help with the boy's behavioral problems. *She has reason to believe the producers told the Beagleys the video they send had to be controversial to get them on the show, Byrnes said. Byrnes also wonders if creative editing by the show might have made the punishment look worse, she said.*

"It's not all white and black," she said. "There are shades in between."...."

http://www.adn.com/2011/01/27/1670946/dr-phil-visit-leads-to-child-abuse.html

That slant is currently under investigation   I know he's your hero Boethius so hang on...

From another article- LOL:

"...The Anchorage mom charged with child abuse after appearing on "Dr. Phil" has triggered an international incident.

But "Dr. Phil" is distancing itself from the story -- and insiders say it has no intention of revisiting what's become a worldwide headline-grabber.

"Dr. Phil" officials had no comment yesterday. ..."

http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/tv/dr_phil_abuse_kid_could_be_sent_zjVqfzEFqkLka3jI1MwDPN

[BC]

Most movies and videos will carry a caption stating 'No animals were harmed during the filming of this movie.'

Guess Dr. Phil's show can't state such for the children.

If parents are writing and acting their own screenplays for profit or fame, that would clearly be abusive.

 

[ECOCKS]

Most movies and videos will carry a caption stating 'No animals were harmed during the filming of this movie.'

Guess Dr. Phil's show can't state such for the children.

If parents are writing and acting their own screenplays for profit or fame, that would clearly be abusive.

Undoubtedly. Still, if she had squirted the sauce on a taco would that count?

[BC]

Undoubtedly. Still, if she had squirted the sauce on a taco would that count?

No, but if after loading up the sauce she verbally threatened or physically forced the child to eat it it would be abusive.

[GoodOlBoy]

Undoubtedly. Still, if she had squirted the sauce on a taco would that count?

Now that would be abuse!
You would be making junior swallow the hot sauce.  :evil:
She let him spit it out in the sink. 

GOB

[Boethius]

"....At first, Byrnes was shocked and angry when someone showed her the video of Beagley punishing the boy. But then she heard more about the Beagleys interactions with producers of the "Dr. Phil" show.

Byrnes said she believed the Beagleys contacted the show to get additional help with the boy's behavioral problems. *She has reason to believe the producers told the Beagleys the video they send had to be controversial to get them on the show, Byrnes said. Byrnes also wonders if creative editing by the show might have made the punishment look worse, she said.*

"It's not all white and black," she said. "There are shades in between."...."

http://www.adn.com/2011/01/27/1670946/dr-phil-visit-leads-to-child-abuse.html

That slant is currently under investigation   I know he's your hero Boethius so hang on...

Did I ever state anyone was my hero?

*She has reason to believe the producers told the Beagleys the video they send had to be controversial to get them on the show, Byrnes said. Byrnes also wonders if creative editing by the show might have made the punishment look worse, she said.*

There is no independent evidence of this.

The bottom line is this is a woman who was out of control.  The method of punishment is more about the mother's reaction rather than discipline.  That, in and of itself, no matter what type of "punishment" used means it will be ineffective.

[GQBlues]

I did initially thought the video seemed so 'well-produced' to be an arbitrary homemade video. If you watch the video again, while I still maintain it's abusive to do that to a child' during the hot sauce segment, the boy didn't seem to be in such pain.

Then the cold shower and the harrowing screams coming from the boy. Is it 'dubbed' and does any of this video actually edited to incite and spice-up (no pun intended) the reactions it generated?

[GQBlues]

There is no independent evidence of this.

Well duh, that's why it is being investigated. Isn't that the due process for these things?  'Suspicions' and 'reasons to believe' spurs further investigations, no?

[Boethius]

There is no evidence the Dr. Phil producers created the abuse.  Unless they edited the piece to add a child, or Beagley's words, it is the typical Western affliction of it's someone else's fault.

[GQBlues]

There is no evidence the Dr. Phil producers created the abuse.  Unless they edited the piece to add a child, or Beagley's words, it is the typical Western affliction of it's someone else's fault.

Who said Dr Phil abused the child? That isn't what's being investigated, Boethius, nor was it what I stated on this thread. Your hero is surrounded by a notable array of legal counsel, I would think.

So you have no to little worries...your hero will be fine.