Is this an unreasonable desire?

[BillyB]

 

If it makes her miserable, it will eventually ruin the marriage.

Misha, Aloe is already miserable with the current situation. Her husband may feel that way too. Something needs to change. I don't see changing him as the only solution. The guy does need a teacher and as of now, Aloe won't be able to convince him she's the teacher.
 

Come on guys, pay attention.   
 

Don't forget the money issue.

[ECOCKS]

What I'm trying to say is:
1) If Aloe agrees to follow orders like not to have her own account, she should be prepared that there will be more of such situations in their relationship in the future.
2) If her parents support her and send her her own money, it means, her husband isn't the only one who earns. Well, getting money from parents isn't earning, of course, but it means she also brings money into the family.
3) I don't think getting up at 5 AM and going this long way on foot is worth doing it. This is a crazy situation.

Was my English really that bad?
In fact, I think ECOCKS gave a very clever advice - counselling could really help in this situation.

I agree completely with parts 1 & 2,

As for #3 - Aloe BADLY needs the education (and maturity) to live independently wherever she chooses. For now at least, that is in the West. As long as she is pursuing an education for a career that is what SHE has selected then it is WORTH IT.

You are both still growing up Aloe. From your posts the last couple of years you recognize this about you and your situation.

Your honesty is refreshing on a number of levels, not the least of which is blowing away the myth that FSUW mature faster than WW. Even allowing for only getting your side of the story, my sense is that you feel that there are problems which involve both of you. You ask for advice from among the group and that's all well and good. Kudos to you for trying to keep growing and learning how to adapt to your new life.

[Misha]

She wants a ride twice a week to a station 1 km away. It's something that takes at most 15 minutes of his time per week. Hell, I'd do if I was her neighbor.

True, Aloe's husband is fortunate that Aloe doesn't seem to be looking actively for such a solution 
 

This has nothing to do with being young and 'immature'. That's a dumb cop out.

I agree with you. I know plenty of wonderful and generous 20-year-olds, men and women, who have great maturity and are always happy to help anybody out and many are even happily married.

[Muzh]

What I'm trying to say is:
1) If Aloe agrees to follow orders like not to have her own account, she should be prepared that there will be more of such situations in their relationship in the future.
2) If her parents support her and send her her own money, it means, her husband isn't the only one who earns. Well, getting money from parents isn't earning, of course, but it means she also brings money into the family.
3) I don't think getting up at 5 AM and going this long way on foot is worth doing it. This is a crazy situation.

Was my English really that bad?
In fact, I think ECOCKS gave a very clever advice - counselling could really help in this situation.

No, your English is not bad. I missed the body language so I took it very differently. Now I follow you and I think you are right.

[Muzh]

If anybody still questions why my fiancee and other young FSU ladies will accept larger age gaps compared to their Western sisters, it's partially because of what Aloe is going through. I remember Aloe's husband being very young. Immaturity and lack of wisdom is what you get with youth and many FSU grow up faster than their Western sisters and don't have time for BS because they already seen enough of it. A man can marry a stupid woman and marriage can be a success but a woman can't marry stupid man and be happy.

So it is going to be a miserable life for A, eh?
 

What is wrong with being submissive and giving your husband your all? Try it and he may learn something and give it his all too. You already know your husband is going to need a teacher. As of now he is submitting himself to work to feed you, clothe you, and put you through school.
 

I'm sorry. What's your background? Klingon?

I don't like to hear what you're going through but thanks for posting it. Guys who think a pretty face will be all they need to have a happy marriage will think twice when they read stories like this. Your husband may have been way cool and awesome when you met him but I doubt he or you talked anything serious about plans on family life and the roles of a husband and wife.

So I guess A will be sad to see you go? After all, you are the one who preached all this valuable advice.

[Muzh]

Aloe:
 
You both are starting and not in a good way. Unless you want to be the subservient maiden Billy suggest you should be.
 
You definitely have to communicate with your husband. And the things you need to communicate need a mediator, which is the function of a counselor. Sometimes Priests will do the same as a counselor for free. No matter what you choose, you have to discuss this with your husband before it starts festering inside of you.

[Daveman]

Aloe:
 
You both are starting and not in a good way. Unless you want to be the subservient maiden Billy suggest you should be.
 
You definitely have to communicate with your husband. And the things you need to communicate need a mediator, which is the function of a counselor. Sometimes Priests will do the same as a counselor for free. No matter what you choose, you have to discuss this with your husband before it starts festering inside of you.

It already is festering..     she's communicating; he's not receiving.  Their radios are tuned to different wavelengths... 

I agree, they need a mediator who can assist in tuning them in to the same station.  I don't think their marital situation is nearly as dire as it seems to some.  To me, this seems to be normal bumps in learning curve of a young relationship traveling down the path together.  The emotions of anxiety, fear, and frustration are merely being vented and that's a good thing. Venting is just not enough... but there is nothing even remotely catastrophic here.

[Shadow]

Some thoughts about this.

1. It is getting pretty cold in the mornings. But as you are Russian, you should not complain unless its minus 15. 

2. He should just drop you off at the train station in the morning. No doubt.

3. Getting your own bank account in Belgium is pretty easy. You can get one by walking over to the bank with your passport. If he wants his own account, he can have one too.

4. A husband should be a provider. If you want to work and can because there are no other pressing matters (like those babies) it is good for extra things, or to build your future by saving or getting a house together. However he should not treeat you inferior just because you choose to study or be a housewife instead of working.
He married you knowing that you are from another country and would need some time to be abl to work, if at all. If it did not bother him then, he should not consider you as inferior because of working or not working. I am sure that his participation in cooking and cleaning is minimal, so you are in fact doing a job.

5. For those who advise counselling, I have to put in some caution. Counseling is much less seen as normal in these parts as it is in the USA, and the largest problem is that hubby would have to admit there is something wrong before he will accept counseling. As it seems he rarely finds something wrong with his behaviour, and comes over as pretty frugal on top of that.

6. It seems that hubby has taught you to put everything in percentage of the income. Perhaps you could find some things he spends money on and calculate the percentage as well ?

7. Regarding going to work by car, the general arrangement is that employees get paid Eur 0,15 per kilometer if they use their personal car to drive to work. With a second-hand car this could actually cover most of the cost of not just fuel, but also insirance and taxes. By taking public transport to work he might lose that benefit, in which case going by car is a wise thing.

Remember we are not so far apart in Belgium.

[ECOCKS]

It already is festering..    she's communicating; he's not receiving.  Their radios are tuned to different wavelengths... 
I agree, they need a mediator who can assist in tuning them in to the same station.  I don't think their marital situation is nearly as dire as it seems to some.  To me, this seems to be normal bumps in learning curve of a young relationship traveling down the path together.  The emotions of anxiety, fear, and frustration are merely being vented and that's a good thing. Venting is just not enough... but there is nothing even remotely catastrophic here.

+2

[BillyB]

So it is going to be a miserable life for A, eh?
   
I'm sorry. What's your background? Klingon?
 
So I guess A will be sad to see you go? After all, you are the one who preached all this valuable advice.

If my advice is bad compared to yours, don't get insecure about it. Unlike you I didn't recommend to Aloe to divorce but to make changes within herself to benefit her marriage.
 
Why do people want to live independently get married? I've dated women who want to be friends or be friends with benefits. Outside of that they like the rest of their independent life. I would never think of marrying them. If Aloe thinks doing things independently having her own bank account is going to help the situation, it won't.
 
Aloe should ask herself some questions. It's not too late.
1) What does she want out of this marriage?
2) What does she expect out of her husband?
3) How independent does she want to be?
She should discuss these questions with her husband and ask him what he wants from her and the marriage. Depending on the answers they will understand how they can proceed.
 
Aloe has been here before with marital problems and counseling has been recommended dozens of times. If it didn't happen then, what are the chances of it happening now? Those two have to sit down and discuss their problems and those of you with the "screw him" and "divorce" advice is only going to add fuel to the fire.

[GQBlues]

Some thoughts about this......

5. For those who advise counselling, I have to put in some caution. Counseling is much less seen as normal in these parts as it is in the USA, and the largest problem is that hubby would have to admit there is something wrong before he will accept counseling. As it seems he rarely finds something wrong with his behaviour, and comes over as pretty frugal on top of that....

I partly agree with you on this Shadow. On the surface of this, it seems as though hubby is pretty much hanky-dorey in their present situation giving me an impression that as far as 'he' is concerned, everything is fine. So I would think a dialogue is in the first order with Aloe expressing her displeasure to him point blank. Make him aware of her displeasure....before seating him unto Dr. Phil's chair.
 
All the other fluff, money/banking/etc. who makes what and how much as a precursor on who gets the most privileges in the marriage...seem trivial to me, if not juvenile.

 

7. Regarding going to work by car, the general arrangement is that employees get paid Eur 0,15 per kilometer if they use their personal car to drive to work. With a second-hand car this could actually cover most of the cost of not just fuel, but also insirance and taxes. By taking public transport to work he might lose that benefit, in which case going by car is a wise thing.

Admittedly Shadow, I wasn't aware of this. In the US, you don't get mileage reimbursement unless your personal car is used for business function, not as a means to get to and from work. If you folks do in fact get paid for this period, does this mean that if one gets into an accident, there's liability exposure for the company/employer as well?
 
In tandem to Aloe's accounting, it still won't change my tune that at the very least he should drive her to the train station if not to her ultimate destination - EVERYDAY - and back again if possible.
 
Now if he denied her bread, then that's a different ballgame altogether.

[ECOCKS]

I partly agree with you on this Shadow. On the surface of this, it seems as though hubby is pretty much hanky-dorey in their present situation giving me an impression that as far as 'he' is concerned, everything is fine. So I would think a dialogue is in the first order with Aloe expressing her displeasure to him point blank. Make him aware of her displeasure....before seating him unto Dr. Phil's chair.
 
All the other fluff, money/banking/etc. who makes what and how much as a precursor on who gets the most privileges in the marriage...seem trivial to me, if not juvenile.

I don't agree on this.

Over the last couple of years this is AT LEAST the 3rd time Aloe has been frustrated enough to bring relationship issues to the forum for an involved discussion. The issues seem to be increasing with regard to seriousness and complexity. She has indicated that they have "talked" about these issues and brought them to the board, seeking validation by asking situational questions, when her frustration brimmed over.

Intervention, whether it is counseling, serious talking, mediation, etc. needs to be considered, formal, informal, whatever.

[mies]

I don't think he is selfish. He is working, and i am not. And by the looks of it, i may not have a job for another 4 years. I don't think a selfish man would agree to such a situation? .. but these quirks with the car and public transport and my bank account and when he says angrily "MY money", that does make one wonder what's going on here?

Aloe, let me understand this correctly:
he does not let YOU, to use YOUR car, that YOUR parents gave to YOU as YOUR birthday present? Correct?

Много есть таких людей которые хотят и на елку влезть и попу не ободрать. У русских на подобные стоны есть замечательный ответ: вот вам Бог, вот вам порог.

I think counseling could help you two. Although.... not sure. maybe not.

[mies]

Because i thought i was using it as our savings pot. The money on our joint account is used for all the running expenses, but the other money never gets touched and psychologically it's a nice barrier to keep it safe from being touched, because if you have to pull out a second card to pay for something, then it's a lot harder to do than just using same old card that you use every day to buy groceries and such. So that money never ever got touched by anything, so it was the savings thing.
But when he made me transfer it, i realized it was more than just that. When he made me transfer it, i burst in tears feeling extremely unsafe, unprotected and vulnerable. Now i feel that i have nothing, and given that he already tried to force me out of the house "on a break", why should i feel safe. Now i feel again 100% dependent and helpless without any say in the family, because if anything i'll be the one left destitute.  And feeling this way makes me more submissive. I dont like being submissive. I feel like a pussy.
When he saw me all upset about the transfer, and i told him it made me feel unsafe, he said laughing 'you'll get over it'. That was a little bit bothersome. But i'm sure he didn't mean it in a bad way

Aloe, please disregard the second part of my previous post. If he tried to force you out of the house - i think you need to leave, or start getting prepared for leaving. Such actions are not a basis for good marriage. This is a very unhealthy situation in the family. This emotional baggage will probably stay with you, and with him forever. You know as they say in russian: "We can never forgive the people whom we hurt."

[mies]

i dont think he meant it in a bad way. I think he is underestimating how it made me feel. And when i explain WHY i feel the way that i feel he says 'why do you keep throwing in my face the old arguments'

then it's even more bothersome that he is incapable of empathy.

[GQBlues]

I don't agree on this.

Over the last couple of years this is AT LEAST the 3rd time Aloe has been frustrated enough to bring relationship issues to the forum for an involved discussion. The issues seem to be increasing with regard to seriousness and complexity. She has indicated that they have "talked" about these issues and brought them to the board, seeking validation by asking situational questions, when her frustration brimmed over.

Intervention, whether it is counseling, serious talking, mediation, etc. needs to be considered, formal, informal, whatever.

Which is fine.
 
"The more times I see folks disagree with me, the more I know how many people are wrong" 
 
Aloe's complaint is that the cold season is approaching and having to walk every morning to the train station is now becoming more and more of a chore. Especially since hubby is laying cozily on the bed without a care in the world how cold it is out there. Now, mind you, according to the OP, this setup has been going on for 2 years now....to pull him to counseling, 'all of the sudden' (which was seemingly fine for the past 2 years) seem to be a toss from left field to me. Whether we can agree with this or not, bottom line is, she condoned it for 2 years, or at the least allowed it.
 
Now I can understand if this was an unresolved issue for the past 2 years and he's aware it had caused her great despair and unhappiness. But I didn't get that part from Aloe's story. It read as though it became a major issue now that winter is approaching. Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending hubby's action (or inaction) about this matter. I disgaree with that setup to begin with. Aloe should have voiced her displeasure with this day 1 *regardless of the season*. But to run to a counselor about it all of the sudden is pretty ill-advised to me.
 
As for the rest of the 'problems' i.e. money/banking/house chores/who works vs. who cleans - seriously, does that really require professional counsel?
 
I have a feeling her hubby never got spanked growing up.    Maybe it's time? 

[TheTraveler]

Aloe, Sorry to hear about your unhappiness.  I wish I had some good advice for you, but I pause -- since bad advice can be worse than no advice at all.
 
I hope the guys around here read this as a cautionary tale.  Not necessarily about marriage to a Russian woman, but marriage in general.
 
In my opinion, a man should be ready and able to support his wife financially after marriage, without the wife having to work.  That means having a home, buying a ring, going on a nice honeymoon, buying her a car, keeping her in nice clothes, and generally doing nice things to show your appreciation like taking her out to restaurants and on vacations.  If she's an immigrant wife, add in immigration fees, being prepared to buy lots of airline tickets to travel to her homeland (and flying her relatives over here, too).  If you and her want kids, the man should be able to afford them, too.  That means diapers, clothes, schools, and airline tickets for them, too, to visit their Russian grandparents and great-grandparents.
 
If he's not prepared to handle this on his own, he really has no business getting married.

With a Russian woman, through no fault of her own, she's not necessarily going to be able to gauge the financial viability of her western man.  The whole system works differently over here than over there, and it generally takes time for the Russian wife to figure out what's what.  So it's up to the guy to be honest with himself -- for both of their sakes.  Otherwise, he risks dragging his woman down into a miserable situation.

[mies]

What is wrong with being submissive and giving your husband your all? Try it and he may learn something and give it his all too. You already know your husband is going to need a teacher. As of now he is submitting himself to work to feed you, clothe you, and put you through school.

Billy, you may appreciate a submissive wife, based on the wisdom of your age and on the facts that you know what you want, you learned few things about yourself and about the people along the way. Will you intentionally be making your wife feel insecure, unprotected, vulnerable, just for the sake of the good laugh and self-proclaimed and egocentric "fairness"? Will you continuously make her feel inferior until the point when she will stop loving you?
With all the criticism I ever expressed about your motives, I do think that you will be able to take good care of a submissive woman. Give the same (a submissive wife) to Aloe's husband it would be the case of elephant in the fine porcelain store. Devastating for Aloe, while her husband would not even notice what he have done. I think her husband is too childish and immature to understand and appreciate Aloe's selfless acts. Whatever she have done for him is already a sunk cost, you are advising her keep increasing the stakes and sacrifice even more. I do not think this will be healthy for her psyche, and I do not think this will resolve her problem.

[ECOCKS]

Which is fine.
 
"The more times I see folks disagree with me, the more I know how many people are wrong" 
 
Aloe's complaint is that the cold season is approaching and having to walk every morning to the train station is now becoming more and more of a chore. Especially since hubby is laying cozily on the bed without a care in the world how cold it is out there. Now, mind you, according to the OP, this setup has been going on for 2 years now....to pull him to counseling, 'all of the sudden' (which was seemingly fine for the past 2 years) seem to be a toss from left field to me. Whether we can agree with this or not, bottom line is, she condoned it for 2 years, or at the least allowed it.
 
Now I can understand if this was an unresolved issue for the past 2 years and he's aware it had caused her great despair and unhappiness. But I didn't get that part from Aloe's story. It read as though it became a major issue now that winter is approaching. Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending hubby's action (or inaction) about this matter. I disgaree with that setup to begin with. Aloe should have voiced her displeasure with this day 1. But to run to a counselor about it all of the sudden is pretty ill-advised to me.
 
As for the rest of the 'problems' i.e. money/banking/house chores/who works vs. who cleans - seriously, does that really require professional counsel?
 
I have a feeling her hubby never got spanked growing up.    Maybe it's time? 

 Couple of things....
 
 I'm not sure when they bought the car.
 
 The bank account issue concerns me more than Aloe getting her toes chilled. For those taking people to task for dietary issues I can't believe this point is being dismissed so lightly.
 
 There seems, IMHO, to be a continuing, unresolved issue which is growing and (as someone else says) "festering" in their relationship.
 
 Spanking, having Mama pay him a visit, a host of other things, these are interventions and covered under the "etc." and "whatever" in my previous comment.
 
 By the way, I don't think Aloe is REALLY complaining about the cold weather walk.

[mies]

By the way, I don't think Aloe is REALLY complaining about the cold weather walk.

I agree. Also, there is also a way to let the person make the right choice, just put the things in a perspective for him.
For example, this http://www.saksfifthavenue.com/main/ProductDetail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524446434641&afsrc=1&site_refer=PRONTO01&srccode=cii_16776730&cpncode=18-84779872-2

is a wonderful solution for cold legs and butt: stylish, warm, soft, fashionable, can be worn with or without a skirt. Seems like a win-win: hubby can stay in warm bed extra 2 minutes while Aloe walks in her nice cashmere leggings to the train station. Or, he can choose to drive her to the station, and save the cost of leggings. Seems like an easy choice to me 

[Boethius]

I think Dave's advice is spot on.
 
On Aloe coming here, I wouldn't read too much into it.  She comes here to vent because who else is she going to vent to?  Aloe, you need to find some married girlfriends you can trust.
 
I don't think marriage requires a portfolio, and most men who marry do need their wives to work.  Most women also want to work, at various times in their lives.
 
Aloe, it is immature of you to dig in your heels on wearing heels.  Buy some leggings, as mies suggested, and a couple pair of flat boots so you're comfortable walking. 
 
Your husband is being selfish in not getting up to drive you to the train station at that time of the morning.  This is a matter of respect, and demonstrating his love for the most important person in his life.  Unlike others, I don't think this has anything to do with age.  It is more about him.  Without hearing his side, it seems he has a self centred and entitled attitude.  I don't think this will change with age unless you can point out to him that he is being selfish.  If he whines that he works, you can note that you work too, just in a different way.
 
Does your husband have a bank account on which you are not a signatory?  If not, then I don't think it is unreasonable that he wants all money to be held jointly.  If he has his own account(s), then it's a different matter.  I understand your feeling of insecurity.  This is perfectly normal.  I suggest you put the funds in a separate joint account as savings.  Invest it in something secure to build a little nest egg.  It will even be available to you in the future.
 
Learn to budget.  You both have to live within your means.  Don't get into the habit of spending more than you have. 
 
The self centred behaviour must be addressed.  That is why you are feeling insecure and resentful.  That resentfulness will build with time.  I didn't have time to post before you posted that you are beginning to resent this.  That is the end result if you believe you have compromised and sacrificed, and he has not recognized nor respected that.   That can spell a death knell for a marriage.  I don't think this is about compromise.  Either he has to change and be less self centred, or you have to recognize that he won't change, and make your decision on whether or not you can live with this the rest of your life.  Certainly, you have to resolve this before you contemplate having children.
 
I also agree, you need to continue your education.  No woman should rely on a man to make her way in the world.  Lots of women end up at 50 divorced, and with no skills to support themselves.
 
 
 

[SANDRO43]

For example, this http://www.saksfifthavenue.com/main/ProductDetail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524446434641&afsrc=1&site_refer=PRONTO01&srccode=cii_16776730&cpncode=18-84779872-2 is a wonderful solution for cold legs and butt

A bit of fashion history. It seems that those 'leggings' were first made in the 1960s - initially in silk for evening wear, then in stretch fabrics for skiing and similar sports - by Florentine designer Emilio Pucci (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emilio_Pucci), formerly a decorated RIAF pilot of S.M.79 torpedo bombers in WWII:

He called them fuseaux, French for a weaving spindle, because of their slim look - on fashion models, or actresses like:

[OlgaH]

He called them fuseaux, French for a weaving spindle, because of their slim look - on fashion models, or actresses like:

I think Yevgraph Davydov would make a nice model too 

[pitbull]

I think Dave's advice is spot on.
 
On Aloe coming here, I wouldn't read too much into it.  She comes here to vent because who else is she going to vent to?  Aloe, you need to find some married girlfriends you can trust.
 
I don't think marriage requires a portfolio, and most men who marry do need their wives to work.  Most women also want to work, at various times in their lives.
 
Aloe, it is immature of you to dig in your heels on wearing heels.  Buy some leggings, as mies suggested, and a couple pair of flat boots so you're comfortable walking. 
 
Your husband is being selfish in not getting up to drive you to the train station at that time of the morning.  This is a matter of respect, and demonstrating his love for the most important person in his life.  Unlike others, I don't think this has anything to do with age.  It is more about him.  Without hearing his side, it seems he has a self centred and entitled attitude.  I don't think this will change with age unless you can point out to him that he is being selfish.  If he whines that he works, you can note that you work too, just in a different way.
 
Does your husband have a bank account on which you are not a signatory?  If not, then I don't think it is unreasonable that he wants all money to be held jointly.  If he has his own account(s), then it's a different matter.  I understand your feeling of insecurity.  This is perfectly normal.  I suggest you put the funds in a separate joint account as savings.  Invest it in something secure to build a little nest egg.  It will even be available to you in the future.
 
Learn to budget.  You both have to live within your means.  Don't get into the habit of spending more than you have. 
 
The self centred behaviour must be addressed.  That is why you are feeling insecure and resentful.  That resentfulness will build with time.  I didn't have time to post before you posted that you are beginning to resent this.  That is the end result if you believe you have compromised and sacrificed, and he has not recognized nor respected that.   That can spell a death knell for a marriage.  I don't think this is about compromise.  Either he has to change and be less self centred, or you have to recognize that he won't change, and make your decision on whether or not you can live with this the rest of your life.  Certainly, you have to resolve this before you contemplate having children.
 
I also agree, you need to continue your education.  No woman should rely on a man to make her way in the world.  Lots of women end up at 50 divorced, and with no skills to support themselves.

Aloe,
 
Of all the advice posted I recommend you listen to what Boethius says. Those are the words of a very wise lady with 25 (?) years of successful marriage. I have only been married for 6 years, and if I ever decided to ask someone here for relationship advice it would be her. Agree with every word quoted.
Most importantly  - make sure no babies in the nearest future, before you guys sort this marriage out.
 

[OlgaH]

Aloe,
 
Of all the advice posted I recommend you listen to what Boethius says. Those are the words of a very wise lady with 25 (?) years of successful marriage. I have only been married for 6 years, and if I ever decided to ask someone here for relationship advice it would be her. Agree with every word quoted.
Most importantly  - make sure no babies in the nearest future, before you guys sort this marriage out.

Absolutely agree, Aloe, I also would recommend to take advice of Boethius and Pitbull.