women with adult children

[Misha]

May i have one also ? 

Oui, bien sûr!

[Muzh]

Let's see, she was from Moscow, you are from Moscow, so let me guess class = Muscovite 

LMFAO 

[Donna_Pedro]

About the 50k $ as single, in my country he is on top 10% earner as single,

My son is a single 20+ yo guy working for a fortune 500 company fresh out of college earning in low 50K. Cant tell about Europe, but unless a person is a lawyer or an MD here, in the US,  $50K is pretty much a start up salary .  If a 40-50 yo man with the same salary and boatload of debts is bringing a woman with a child, he is suicidal. In US $50K for 3 people is near poverty level. No life style at all. Old used car, small apartment in a poor  area and food on sale in Walmart. That's how I see it.   And yes, if you compare old car in the US to no car in Russia its probably an increase in life style, but why to compare to Russia at all?  These are the worst  2 of mistakes women do - 1.They think of their future life in the west in comparison to their life style in Russia, while they are supposed to compare it to overall level in that western country. $50K in the US is a near poverty level, and I dont give a sht if this is considered super rich in Ukraine or anywhere in the world. 2. And women often compare item to item. I did not have a car in Moscow, but if my husband was to buy me some old rusty 1980s car  tomorrow, would you say my life style has improved? These are the things rw dont know. Its important that someone explained it to them.

So really don't help to "read" people.

I dont read people. I really give my good faith estimate about  what a womans life style might be based on  info at hand.

Others OPs here have tried to give you some clues to let FSU women understand that things are really more complicated and there are others factors which are importants for a family, rather than the total wages/assets.

Certainly. But I usually do not  get involved in battles I can not win. I can not presume to control or understand all these "other important factors" - relationship, feelings. They are either there or not. But one thing I can attempt to understand ahead of time - money. Nobody can say if your relationship is going to work out or not. But as it happens a lot of women would like to know ahead of time what life style to expect. What was that saying? smth like "if you want to fall in love and marry a prince you  need to hang out where princes do". Thats exactly what I am ultimately trying to achieve -  to provide  a pool of  financially sound guys for women's choice. So they could see if other  important factors might be possible. This is  of course with clear understanding that the data I am dealing with is not accurate and there could be  significant deviations and things might change, people get  laid off or bankrupted every day, but these are again things I can not presume to predict or control.
 

[GQBlues]

.....If a 40-50 yo man with the same salary and boatload of debts is bringing a woman with a child, he is suicidal. In US $50K for 3 people is near poverty level. No life style at all. Old used car, small apartment in a poor  area and food on sale in Walmart. That's how I see it.....

Suicidal?
 
Not according to RWD. Gator included. Not just for 3 people either, make it 5. Apparently the formula is you budget the family at 50 bucks a month for clothing, and how you do that is take them to garage sales and have them pick out their respective fashions.
 
Presto! $200.00 expense for the entire lot (woman+ 3kids)! Misha can tell you all about this mastery.
 
Gator even implied that we must always remember that even under this condition, this is a step-up for any MOB FSUW immigrating to the US.

[Donna_Pedro]

let's see, she was from Moscow, you are from Moscow, so let me guess class = Muscovite 

and when we break wind it smells like roses  Its hard to explain what class is to a person who does not seem to have this term written in heir  book".

[pitbull]

and when we break wind it smells like roses  Its hard to explain what class is to a person who does not seem to have this term written in heir  book".

Here the ndefinition of "classy" from Merriam-Webster. I believe this is what many posters here would go by:
 
 Definition of CLASSY   : having or showing class: as a : elegant, stylish <a classy clientele> b : having or reflecting high standards of personal behavior <a classy guy> <a classy gesture> c : admirably skillful and graceful <a classy outfielder>  — class·i·ness noun

[Patagonie]

 Dear GQ i think you have misunderstood what i want to say. First i needed to go to internet because i was not knowing about stfu. And i don't use such type of word. And not in the way to prevent her to write here. Just to stop to advice, and break a story of four months  because she has high standard maintenance.
 I would tell you something : there is a couple here in France, and guess what he is earning almost 50k$/year (i make a correction : when he started to date her he was earning ...). [/color]they live in Paris, which is not the cheapest city (not the more expansive, but expansive). He has a big mortage (but it is still a [/color]bargain as the flat he had bought come from his family). And guess what ? She came from Ukraine. [/color]He is an ingeneer. Of course it had not been easy the first year, sure. She was  surprised that he hadn't any asset after the mariage (how can he do, between the costs of the courtship and mariage's costs ? With such salary and also [/color]they are young (under 30-35 i don't know exactly for him)). But now [/color]she has got a job, and things are better.
So really i think it's a mistake to manipulate someone and broke a story (you know that feelings can grow quickly) because you are not be able to assess what is real life, in this case i think it's better to stay silent. It's my opinion.

This was my previous post. You will have not advice this girl to go with this guy, but they get married and now  (for what i know, i don't spend my nights with them) they are still married.

[Ade]

Let's see, she was from Moscow, you are from Moscow, so let me guess class = Muscovite 

Yes, I also know one of those types. 

[Kuna]

The thing I know about "classy" people is that they would NEVER claim to be so.   



DP... I believe you're making all these crazy statements on asset searches for the very best of intentions. 

I really do believe you are trying to help the women you're giving this information to... and I agree wholeheartedly that a man who is not financially secure should not be attempting marriage to a FSUW - but really,  the "research" you do is simplistic at best.

There was a poster here not so long ago who'd had several FSU trips... finally got engaged (from memory), it didn't work out,  got engaged again and married.  He had a minimal income,  no house, I don't know what car he had... but by your standards you'd be pessimistic at best.  What your searches wouldn't uncover was his families very considerable wealth and businesses he would go into now that he'd graduated.  btw.. the extent of his families wealth would make most people here blush.

Without even realising it you could be so far off reality when reporting back these men's partial financial positions, but arrogance (which is not uncommon in FSU) stops you from even pausing before you act.

If you really wanted to help these women you would give them a list of questions they should have answered before agreeing to marry and THEN you might have something to work with...  but your feeble attempted detective work is shonky at best.

If the man didn't answer the woman's questions then she should be concerned... but really, you're acting no better than those grubby FSU relationship Private Detectives do when men want to secretly find out more about their fiances/Gfs (who they obviously don't trust)

I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this post...  reading your responses to the other members in here highlights your tendency to avoid reality and rant on about your own little personal view of issues... which is far too simplistic in many cases.

Even after being the the US for ten years you've obviously not come to grips with reality.

I hope you're not harming more women than you are helping!

[Patagonie]

My mother sometimes was saying to me, Pat "It's time to wake up of your blue velvet pillow : "

http://www.worldsalaries.org/usa.shtml

http://www.fedupusa.org/2010/01/how-much-does-the-average-american-make-breaking-down-the-u-s-household-income-numbers/

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

National Median

$44,389

50.00%

1.35

2.57

Guys : great discount for real estate this year : according to D__P 154 millions of people are going to commit suicide this year in US !(308 less 154 = 154)

[TheTraveler]

Let's see, she was from Moscow, you are from Moscow, so let me guess class = Muscovite 

Classic !!!

That made my day !!!

[Patagonie]

The thing I know about "classy" people is that they would NEVER claim to be so.   



DP... I believe you're making all these crazy statements on asset searches for the very best of intentions. 

I really do believe you are trying to help the women you're giving this information to... and I agree wholeheartedly that a man who is not financially secure should not be attempting marriage to a FSUW - but really,  the "research" you do is simplistic at best.

There was a poster here not so long ago who'd had several FSU trips... finally got engaged (from memory), it didn't work out,  got engaged again and married.  He had a minimal income,  no house, I don't know what car he had... but by your standards you'd be pessimistic at best.  What your searches wouldn't uncover was his families very considerable wealth and businesses he would go into now that he'd graduated.  btw.. the extent of his families wealth would make most people here blush.

Without even realising it you could be so far off reality when reporting back these men's partial financial positions, but arrogance (which is not uncommon in FSU) stops you from even pausing before you act.

If you really wanted to help these women you would give them a list of questions they should have answered before agreeing to marry and THEN you might have something to work with...  but your feeble attempted detective work is shonky at best.

If the man didn't answer the woman's questions then she should be concerned... but really, you're acting no better than those grubby FSU relationship Private Detectives do when men want to secretly find out more about their fiances/Gfs (who they obviously don't trust)

I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this post...  reading your responses to the other members in here highlights your tendency to avoid reality and rant on about your own little personal view of issues... which is far too simplistic in many cases.

Even after being the the US for ten years you've obviously not come to grips with reality.

I hope you're not harming more women than you are helping!

Kuna has the gift to summarize. And he is coming to a question i would  ask you. May you help me, i want to know more about the girl i like in Ukraine, because she is not a classy girl, not coming from an high row. Probably she might be an impure woman, she is certainly. I think you would have any problem to dig about her ?

[Misha]

Presto! $200.00 expense for the entire lot (woman+ 3kids)! Misha can tell you all about this mastery.
 
Gator even implied that we must always remember that even under this condition, this is a step-up for any MOB FSUW immigrating to the US.

My, over time your posts are becoming increasingly bitter and caustic.


It really isn't difficult GQ. The principle is quite simple: find a woman who will fall in love with you, a woman who can love you, a woman who will not marry you solely for a better financial deal, a woman who is rational, and a woman who shares the same goals as you, and the rest falls into place. If you marry a woman who is there only out of mercantile pursuits, then the money and spending will suffice and eventually she will move on to greener pastures 


Paradoxically, the men who seem most happy in their marriages, apparently did just that: GOB wife's IIRC can make a penny squeal with her frugality, Muzh I believe stated that he lived quite well on $50k give or take.   

[Donna_Pedro]

The thing I know about "classy" people is that they would NEVER claim to be so.   

Your point being?

Even after being the the US for ten years you've obviously not come to grips with reality.

whatever.. See, my "businesss' (ints not really a business, because I do not charge) works of references, word of mouth. If my assesments were so far off as you described, nobody would want to reccomend me, right? But I have more requests that I can satisfy, since I have a full time professional job. Soooo.. it appears that I am very much in grips with reality here. But you can believe what uyou want.

[GQBlues]

My, over time your posts are becoming increasingly bitter and caustic.

Bitter and caustic? LOL! Simply because I pointed out some folks take their wives and family to garage sales for their clothing?

It really isn't difficult GQ. The principle is quite simple: find a woman who will fall in love with you, a woman who can love you, a woman who will not marry you solely for a better financial deal, a woman who is rational, and a woman who shares the same goals as you, and the rest falls into place. If you marry a woman who is there only out of mercantile pursuits, then the money and spending will suffice and eventually she will move on to greener pastures     

So let me get this straight once again. According to you, the only way a man, or woman, can find true 'looooove', is
 
"...even though we ain't got money, I'm so in love with you honey..."

Is that it? Dude, you listened way too much to Kenny Loggins. Well, Kenny himself (and Davey) were cutting the fat off the hog when that single was released. LOL. It was a pop song to make a buck, TONS of it! Not a guidemap for happiness.
 
If living poor, or if living bare minimum, is the preferred way to find marital bliss, then half the problems for these FSUWs  would have been non-existent> And very likely RMs wouldn't be resorting to alcoholism - and likely womanizing - and likely domestic abuse would never rear its ugly head. So the world of MOB would have never taken roots in places like FSU. Then guys like you would still be sitting your fat butt home alone back in Canada, Misha. Still dateless and desperate....
 
Look at Patagonie's links alone Misha. $46K is the median household income level in the US. If 2 earners, $67K. Look at the bare budgeting that had to be observed to make sure sanity prevails in their daily lives - AND that DOESN'T even factor in *5* people in a household in which 4 of them are immigrants with ALL relative expense going along with it...

Wasn't that the silliness you were trying to prove profusely before? Heck, they haven't even included healthcare in those budget, dude.
 

Paradoxically, the men who seem most happy in their marriages, apparently did just that: GOB wife's IIRC can make a penny squeal with her frugality, Muzh I believe stated that he lived quite well on $50k give or take.

Is that a call for the cavalry, Misha? The discussion with you wasn't about frugality, but about whether or a not a self-employed man can support a family of 4 newly arriving immigrants for $50K because well, Muzh did (albeit not nearly as many beneficiaries as the then subject). No?
 
My wife, after a short 6 years here is making well over the $50K, does that autiomatically mean to you she doesn't love me and I'm so unhappy in my marriage?
 
Didn't you once state here on RWD that if your wife ever found out you spent more money than you should that she would slap you silly? It wasn't intended as a metaphor either. Is that your definition of 'happiness'? LOL.
 
LOL. Dude, take a pill and chill.

[Misha]

The discussion with you wasn't about frugality, but about whether or a not a self-employed man can support a family of 4 newly arriving immigrants for $50K because well, Muzh did (albeit not nearly as many beneficiaries as the then subject). No?

You keep bringing it up and of course taking what I said out of context. The point that I was trying to make was quite simple: you don't need $100,000 per year to support a family. You don't mention of course that was your "minimum" or was it $200,000. My point was quite simple: your "minimum" was ridiculous and that not all families need to send their children to private schools and buy cars for both wives and children. However, you seem to forget that while posting cheap shots at me.
 

My wife, after a short 6 years here is making well over the $50K, does that autiomatically mean to you she doesn't love me and I'm so unhappy in my marriage?

Let's say you don't exude much happiness when you post IMHO.
 

Didn't you once state here on RWD that if your wife ever found out you spent more money than you should that she would slap you silly? It wasn't intended as a metaphor either. Is that your definition of 'happiness'? LOL.

No, but my wife is an equal partner in our finances. She does put a brake on my spending, and I appreciate it.
 

LOL. Dude, take a pill and chill.

Perhaps you should be taking your own advice 

[Donna_Pedro]

Here the ndefinition of "classy" from Merriam-Webster. I believe this is what many posters here would go by:
 
 Definition of CLASSY   : having or showing class: as a : elegant, stylish <a classy clientele> b : having or reflecting high standards of personal behavior <a classy guy> <a classy gesture> c : admirably skillful and graceful <a classy outfielder>  — class·i·ness noun

And who is going to judge the hight of these standards?

[GQBlues]

You keep bringing it up and of course taking what I said out of context. The point that I was trying to make was quite simple: you don't need $100,000 per year to support a family. You don't mention of course that was your "minimum" or was it $200,000. My point was quite simple: your "minimum" was ridiculous and that not all families need to send their children to private schools and buy cars for both wives and children. However, you seem to forget that while posting cheap shots at me.

Backpedalling now? I didn't take anything out of context. I told you if you can go by with $50/mo on clothing, then more power to you. You responded and cited the way to do is shop garage sales. LOL.
 

Let's say you don't exude much happiness when you post IMHO.

I probably broke the record for typing the most number of 'LOL' in every post, whereas you hold the record for clicking ' '....and I don't exude happiness like you?
 
LOL...see there it goes again.

No, but my wife is an equal partner in our finances. She does put a brake on my spending, and I appreciate it.

Put a brake? You mean slap you silly, right? LOL.
 

Perhaps you should be taking your own advice

Nah, I don't need diet pills, nor do I need alcohol to sustain my makeshift happiness 

[Donna_Pedro]

Kuna has the gift to summarize. And he is coming to a question i would  ask you. May you help me, i want to know more about the girl i like in Ukraine, because she is not a classy girl, not coming from an high row. Probably she might be an impure woman, she is certainly. I think you would have any problem to dig about her ?

Pooh.. there used to be a guy on the old RWG board who  had a MOB business in Tver (??) he actually provided men with gossips and rumors about women - small town, word travels fast. ('dont go with her, people say she sleeps around" type of thing). What he did was illlegal. What I am doing - is perfectly legal, those records are called PUBLIC, meaning everybody can get them.

[Misha]

Backpedalling now? I didn't take anything out of context. I told you if you can go by with $50/mo on clothing, then more power to you. You responded and cited the way to do is shop garage sales. LOL.

I explained that there are many options when it comes to buying clothes for kids. You can buy new stuff in the designer boutique stores and spend a small fortune, or you can quite often go to a garage sale in a good neighbourhood with lots of children and buy these same clothes a year later in near perfect condition for pennies on the dollar. Again, it is a question of making choices and deciding where to best spend money. Some spend money solely for status, some seek to maximize value.
 

Put a brake? You mean slap you silly, right? LOL.

No, discuss things like adults and come to a mutual decision. I understand that this might be a difficult concept for you to grasp.
 

Nah, I don't need diet pills, nor do I need alcohol to sustain my makeshift happiness 

Good for you!

[pitbull]

 
If living poor, or if living bare minimum is the preferred way to find marital bliss, then half the problems these FSUWs back home would have been non-existent. And guys like you would still be sitting your fat butt back home alone in Canada, Misha. Still dateless and desperate....
 
Look at Patagonie's links alone Misha. $46K is the median household income level in the US. If 2 earners, $67K. Look at the bare budgeting that had to be observed to make sure sanity prevails in their daily lives - AND that DOESN'T even factor in *5* people in a household in which 4 of them are immigrants with ALL relative expense going along with it...

I agree with GQ in that the importance of finances in this endeavor can not be underestimated. I have been reading the forums for RW living in the West for several years now, provides a good picture of the "other side of the medal". In my experience, the most common problem in the MOB marriages is that the AM underestimate the cost of supporting an immigrant wife, and more often an immigrant wife who arrived with one or more children. I'd say new topics on this issue are posted almost daily on the RW forum. You have no idea how often it turns out that the AM doesn't have money to support even the basic needs - AOS documents, a car for the wife, health insurance, even proper nutrition for the family. Some of the stories are truly sad and/or horrifying. It takes suspiciously too many AM by surprise that "Oops, my new Russian family costs more than a couple puppies from the sheltor!"
 
And really, I don't understand it when a 50-yo AM only makes 40-50K, what has he been doing his whole life? There has been a great job opening at my current place of employment recently that requires fluent Russian and the knowledge of Russian culture. I've forwarded it to 4 of my RW friends who have been here in the US for 3-6 years. The job pays 55-60K. Guess what - they turned this offer down since their current jobs pay over 70K. They won't chasnge jobs for less than 80K. Neither of them is a programmer either 

[GQBlues]

I explained that there are many options when it comes to buying clothes for kids. You can buy new stuff in the designer boutique stores and spend a small fortune, or you can quite often go to a garage sale in a good neighbourhood with lots of children and buy these same clothes a year later in near perfect condition for pennies on the dollar. Again, it is a question of making choices and deciding where to best spend money. Some spend money solely for status, some seek to maximize value.

The $50/ea value came from you as an example of YOU and your WIFE's motnhly clothing expense. It has no other relative implication whether or not it's an adult clothing budget or for children. Fact remains you cited garage sales as a way to expend and meet that $50/ea per month clothing budget. PERIOD. You can re-track and backpedal now if you want, but up until then, you take your wife to garage sales for her clothing every month. LOL
 

No, discuss things like adults and come to a mutual decision. I understand that this might be a difficult concept for you to grasp.

Now, you really arent going to me dive into the archive to show you when you said your wife slaps you silly now, should I? Does she favor the right over the left? Is her back hand just as vicious as her open palm? LOL.
 

Good for you!

Exercise, man. Beats the heck out of sucking alcohol out of the bottle.

[Donna_Pedro]

Again, it is a question of making choices and deciding where to best spend money. Some spend money solely for status, some seek to maximize value.

You are correct. The family spends money based on their priorities. When money is tight,  necessities become your priorities : food, bills, clothing. No life style at all. No hobbies, no trips.. no nothing. Whatever you want to do or buy outside  necessities you cannot have.  A lot of girls live this type of life in Russia - having merely enough money for necessities. Yes, she might not have had a car in Russia, but in Russia it is  not a necessity. Here - it is. Is love possible in this situation? I guess...Does happiness depend on quality of life? Yes it does. Moms and granmoms might tell you stories how they were oh so happy living in communal apartments, with one toilet for 40 people. My mom has stories like this. She lovingly remembers how happy they were being newly wed with my dad living in a 9 sq.m room in a communal appartment. But from where I stand, it seemed like they were constantly fighting to survive, they did not have a choice - everybody was in the same situation. Right now the situation has changed. Personally I would not want to move from one "surviving life style" to another half a world away.
 

[Misha]

The $50/ea value came from you as an example of YOU and your WIFE's motnhly clothing expense. It has no other relative implication whether or not it's an adult clothing budget or for children. Fact remains you cited garage sales as a way to expend and meet that $50/ea per month clothing budget. PERIOD. You can re-track and backpedal now if you want, but up until then, you take your wife to garage sales for her clothing every month. LOL

No, I said that there were many options for spending a lot less on clothes including garage sales.
 
 

Now, you really arent going to me dive into the archive to show you when you said your wife slaps you silly now, should I? Does she favor the right over the left? Is her back hand just as vicious as her open palm? LOL.

I may have said something in jest, but one must not something said in passing as a joke with the literal truth 
 

Exercise, man. Beats the heck out of sucking alcohol out of the bottle.

What exactly are you babbling about?!?

[GQBlues]

No, I said that there were many options for spending a lot less on clothes including garage sales.

...and garage sales happen to be at the top of your list as a citation, and implication, that that's how you meet your monthly budget. So for anyone immigrating a woman with children should, or can, in fact keep their monthly clothing budget down to 50 big ones by taking them to garage sales and yard sales...
 
BTW, just so you understand, The GAP is NOT a designer boutique, LOL.
 
 

I may have said something in jest, but one must not something said in passing as a joke with the literal truth 

Ahhh! Joke...yeppers.....jokes....truth...the proverbial fine line, etc.
 

What exactly are you babbling about?!?

The 60-40 split between you and wifey for your monthly food (alcohol) budget. LOL. (Oooppsss, there it goes again).