How to get started when it comes to looking for an Ukrainian woman?

[Hughtheo]

GQBlues, I am sure there are many women in the FSU who speak excellent English. I was just referring to the 2 ladies I have met on my tour to Odessa who only spoke Russian and Ukrainian.

I'm not sure how much time/trips you'd like to invest searching for your life partner in Ukraine or elsewhere but as far as my own experience is concerned, I was resigned to make a trip once.

I will make as many efforts as it takes. My mind is made up, inspired by the very happy marriage of my friend Jack to his Russian lady. I'm sorry to hear that you had quite a gruelling experience eventually looking like an Uzbek to boot.

[Hughtheo]

Gator, to make a final comment on your continued ramblings in reply #70 at 06:46:24 PM.

I will not copy the whole lot, it will only make it worse.

Only that much --

I don't have a job.  I double bogeyed two of the last three holes today for an 81, but  quickly forgot about those mistakes as I had many superb shots to carry my spirits.

Instead of wasting time having made 7431 postings on this forum, get a job or do charity work. 

Don't bother to reply. Just go away.

[Nat]

Out of curiosity, are you a native English speaker teaching in Ukraine? Or an Ukrainian lady teaching English?

Oh, I wish  No, I'm Ukrainian

[Hughtheo]

My wife's from Nikolaev,I've been there .
 
There are a lot of  bad agencies there , and the same scenario you ran into in Odessa ,
so if that meeting  was through the same agency you used,, i would expect the same results(particularly if the woman was younger)
 
You see that clearly now, so it was a very inexpensive lesson compared to many. !!
 
[...]
 
Just keep in mind ,that UW will often have the same preconceptions about your actions,
as  anyone in London likely would?
I headed  up to Birmingham for a long weekend to date a few young girls,
might be fun, but few wouldn take you too seriously as far as marriage?
 
So just  brush it off and move forward.
 
 

Jumper, my trip has been an expensive lesson with £850 invested in travelling to Odessa, renting an appartment, city transport and meals out.

I consider it tuition fees. It has been inexpensive in terms of what could have been had I followed my foolish little ideas.

BTW, when you speak about Birmingham, is that Alabama or the UK? Where are you based?

[Hughtheo]

Oh, I wish  No, I'm Ukrainian

Your English is excellent! Is Nat short for Natasha?

When I was in Odessa, I stopped by the office of Learning Systems Ukraine LLC on 14, Rishelyevskaya St. to enquire if they needed English teachers.

For a brief moment I really toyed with the idea of relocating to Odessa as English teacher and learning Russian on site. I'm still thinking of doing it for a few months just to get an understanding of your tricky language.

Are you a freelancer or working for a school or college?

[Donna_Pedro]

Don't bother to reply. Just go away.

Just a friendly advise. I happen to know mr. Gator personally. He has been involved in this process for a while and knows it inside out. Even if you dont agree with everything he says, he has got years of experience, which makes his input on this board rather valuable. May be it does not seem as such to you at this point, but someone else might find it useful.

[Hughtheo]

Just a friendly advise. I happen to know mr. Gator personally. He has been involved in this process for a while and knows it inside out. Even if you dont agree with everything he says, he has got years of experience, which makes his input on this board rather valuable. May be it does not seem as such to you at this point, but someone else might find it useful.

DP, thank you for your advice. From my point of view, I find Gator's postings #63 and #70 patronising and on the verge on incoherent mirror talk.

Someone else and hopefully on some other thread might find that illuminating. I wish him good luck.

[Turboguy]

Personally, if I felt I really needed someones advice, planned to listen to it which is not my usual character, and wanted to pick one person to go to for that advice it would be Gator.  Perhaps his words hit you the wrong way but he is a very wise and experienced person.
 
He was also smart enough and talented enough that he was able to move from the working world to one of golf, travel and leasure at a young age, unlike me who will be working until age 90 to avoid the soup kitchens.
 
I am a better golfer than him however.  I can not only beat that 83 by a few strokes but it only takes me half as many holes to achieve it.  I can get the score in 9 holes that takes him 18.
 
Personally I think you will find most RW quite good at picking up English even though it is not the easiest language to learn.  My wife started learning English on her own a couple of years before I met her even when she arrived had a bigger vocabulary than I do and corrects me on the proper rules of punctuation and grammar.  Of course for me, English grammar is like my golf game.  It could use some improvement.  But I have known a number of women who have immigrated and FSU women are really very smart and will not disappoint you when it comes to learning English.  They also have great work ethics and will do what they need to in order to succeed at whatever is important to them.  I think the real concern is that she knows enough that you know who you are marrying. 

[Gator]

Instead of wasting time having made 7431 postings on this forum, get a job or do charity work.
 

I am beginning to understand why you are 50 yo and never married.   FYI, the statistics reveal that you have made 10  posts per day at RWD and I less than 3. 
 
It was not my intent to get under your skin.  Perhaps in my senior years I have naturally become more like JB from the good ol' days. 
 
The same as you I went to FSU before I found a forum.  It was 2002 and mind you there were some key differences (no Skype and telephone service especially to provincial areas was problematic).  Instead of chasing 22-yo hotties who did not speak English, I spent 30 days in a travel adventure enjoying the company of sincere, decent  27-44 yo women who spoke English.  So maybe your instincts are not as good as you seem to believe.  Please file that away because in the pursuit  of RW the number of intuitive decisions one must make is mind boggling.   
 
BTW, when I found a RW forum after my trip I posted very little and read much.  I certainly avoided antagonizing anyone who offerred me some help.  Afterall, although older than you I was a mere babe in the woods.   
 

Don't bother to reply. Just go away.

This comment reveals much.   

As others have pointed out, I do have much experience.  I find taking so long to be regretable, yet that is what can happen when some of the experiences are negative and my own doing.  For the past year I have been getting a new experience.  My Cossack Woman's 23-yo daughter is staying with me while attending a local university.  She is gorgeous and commanded much attention from RM.  We talk much about her interaction with men here.  I mentioned you and your trip to Odessa.  She and her mother responded as I would expect.   
 
With complete sincerity, I hope that you continue the RW venture and I wish you good luck and happy trails.  If my posts detract you, you should enable  the ignore device.   

[GQBlues]

...
I will make as many efforts as it takes. My mind is made up, inspired by the very happy marriage of my friend Jack to his Russian lady.

Good. I supposed that's part of staying with your conviction. I, too, got started with this after I read a blog by a couple living in NorCal. I don't know why it even fared in the manner it did for me but did so nonetheless...shortly after that, it seemed like I started noticing local FSUWs around my proper (the red car on the road syndrome) and taking the proverbial trip/adventure was becoming much more than sheer curiosity. So I thought to give it a try...
 

...I'm sorry to hear that you had quite a gruelling experience eventually looking like an Uzbek to boot.

No. With or without the experience, I always looked like an Uzbek...happily if I may so add. Lastly, I concur with the rest here, re: Gator. I don't agree with him on this particular matter but that's how these things go anyway...our mileages vary.
 

[Hughtheo]

Personally I think you will find most RW quite good at picking up English even though it is not the easiest language to learn.  My wife started learning English on her own a couple of years before I met her even when she arrived had a bigger vocabulary than I do and corrects me on the proper rules of punctuation and grammar.  Of course for me, English grammar is like my golf game.  It could use some improvement.  But I have known a number of women who have immigrated and FSU women are really very smart and will not disappoint you when it comes to learning English.  They also have great work ethics and will do what they need to in order to succeed at whatever is important to them.  I think the real concern is that she knows enough that you know who you are marrying.

Thanks Turboguy.

On my trip to St Petersburg I realised that RW in particular came across as both streetwise and smart. Then again, the women I met at the wedding reception mostly worked in banking and the financial market. I guess they are not the representative section of the Russian workforce.

That was in 1999 and back then I was not looking for a spouse. Too busy setting up my own business.

About my current search, as I said before and what has been confirmed by people posting on this thread, I should have included "good knowledge of English" as parameter in my search criteria. Hopefully, I will be making a second trip to Ukraine in 2012, following the sound advice from ML in posting #2, who has really nailed it down. If all comes together as planned, that is.

I'll get there in the end.

[Gator]

One thing else - correct me if I am wrong,  but I do remember that you have "special circumstances" - meaning unlimited time and more than sufficient resources to spend on this process. Also, it seems it has been quite a few years that you have been engaged in it and it is still not complete. Most people do not have unlimited time. A lot of people do not have the resources to carry on for years and learn costly lessons from their mistakes. I am trying to advise them how to increase their chances without going bankrupt in a process.

You are correct on all accounts except costs.  The annual cost of dating RW even with our exotic travels was less than what my AW wife spent in a year.  MY AW wife would demand a hotel with flush toilets. 
 
Maybe subconsciously that is why I enjoyed it so and took so long.
 
Then came marriage.  Costs increased substantially while fun decreased.  It was a short story.  Fortunately, I spent more on my attorney than what I agreed to pay to conclude the divorce.  Oddly, I was still in court with my former AW wife.  Literally, at one meeting my attorney had two folders in his briefcase, one for each divorce.   That was a first for him.   

[Hughtheo]

With or without the experience, I always looked like an Uzbek...happily if I may so add.

I just googled Uzbek images. GQBlues, you need a shave, a long hot shower and get rid of those goat boots.

After that, a trip to Gap or Macy's for proper outfit and you'll be set for Christmas. 

[Gator]

Ability to talk and understand each other without a translator. Ability to write and respond to e-mails without a translator. Ability to participate in a meaningful conversation on various matters.

Yes, desirable but not essential IMO in the beginning.
 
The burden is really on the woman.  She is the one who must learn my language.  She must make the move and consequently she has more to lose.  I only needed to be patient, to facilitate and to encourage.  Thus, she must do 90% of the work from my perspective.   Her exuberance and her pace (or lack thereof) in dealing with this issue says so much, especially while continuing to work and be a mama.
 
 
You mentioned emails.  My Cossack woman and I communicated by emails.  Brevity was a necessity especially as she wrote with the aid of electronic translation.  I still recall one special nugget early in our relationship.  I had written that I would be away for a couple of weeks and would not email her.  It was probably apparent that I could be spending time with another woman.  Her 4-word answer was priceless, "Do not forget me."  I never have.

The man must be patient.  If not, stick with English fluent women.

[GQBlues]

I just googled Uzbek images. GQBlues, you need a shave, a long hot shower and get rid of those goat boots.

After that, a trip to Gap or Macy's for proper outfit and you'll be set for Christmas.   

Hah-hah! Funny... 
 
To make sure I can keep myself (and my SO) from spending over $50.00/mo for clothes, I apparently need shop garage sales for my wardrobe under the wise advisement of this wonderful board. LOL. So there...GAP apparently is too much of a designer clothing boutique. 

[Hughtheo]

Hah-hah! Funny... 
 
To make sure I can keep myself (and my SO) from spending over $50.00/mo for clothes, I apparently need shop garage sales for my wardrobe under the wise advisement of this wonderful board. LOL. So there...GAP apparently is too much of a designer clothing boutique. 

What does SO mean? Special Other, i.e. your wife/girlfriend??

Getting used to all the acronyms and abbreviations used on RWD (there's one to start with) is a science in itself.

[GQBlues]

Significant Other...but here's good link to get you started with acronyms frequently used in these discussions...
 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1383.msg29253#msg29253

[Donna_Pedro]

 Literally, at one meeting my attorney had two folders in his briefcase, one for each divorce.   That was a first for him.

Hold on.. you were married to 2 women simultaneously? You live in FL,  not in Utah?

[Gator]

Hold on.. you were married to 2 women simultaneously? You live in FL,  not in Utah?

That would indeed be something but certainly not funny.  Years after our divorce my former AW wife wanted more blood.  Her husband was using her money to protect her by hiring an aggressive attorney to hound me (such can not be easily stopped in the American judicial system).  She eventually lost but not before we both spent a lot of money on attorneys.  Makes one question the sanity of marriage.  It destroyed much the good will that we had salvaged.  I still thank her for giving me my two sons.

[Gator]

On my trip to St Petersburg I realised that RW in particular came across as both streetwise and smart. Then again, the women I met at the wedding reception mostly worked in banking and the financial market. I guess they are not the representative section of the Russian workforce.

They are indeed represntative of a large group of women.  Banking employees and the accounting staff pf companies typically are listed as economists in profiles.  IMO a majority of the sincere RW interested in meeting foreign men are educated professionals.  And they are not economically desperate. 

[SANDRO43]

Getting used to all the acronyms and abbreviations used on RWD (there's one to start with) is a science in itself.

A less steep learning curve if you consult the RWD Glossary (http://russianwomendiscussion.com/mwiki/index.php/RWD_Glossary) in our RWDpedia .

[ML]

Maybe subconsciously that is why I enjoyed it so and took so long.
 
Then came marriage.  Costs increased substantially while fun decreased. 

And yet many here are attack dogs against anyone who does not profess a goal of marrying (and very soon).  Without a clear statement of intent to marry . . . many are willing  to throw the sex tourist label at the earliest opportunity.  Are you now or have you ever been a member of this group?   

[OlgaH]

 
Two questions:
 
1.  Both of you are fluent in English.  What do the less than fluent RW have to say?
 
2.  What is the fluency threshold for attempting this?   
 

Gator, unfortunately fluency doesn't come out of the blue  and even the native language speaking people have to learn and practice. So the less than fluent RW have to say themselves: "Learn, Learn and once again Learn!" (V. Lenin)

I took my interest in English (because of my own embarrassment) before I decided to participate in international dating. Due to my job in Russia I met a few foreigners and I felt so silly when I could not construct a sentence. I studied English in school and at the University but after without any practice and dire necessity I of course forgot. I will agree that it is not easy to learn English or any other language from zero and in such case you most likely will need a teacher at least for basic, though with nowadays technologies you can do it yourself. Personally I don't buy such excuses as "I don't have time". I worked on average 12 hours and sometimes 14-16 hours per day plus my family, but I managed to find a free time for studying. When you have a desire you will find some free time and the means to achieve your desire     Books and CDs are not really so expensive. Plus there are a lot of helpful websites along with dictionaries with audio pronunciations.

When next time we had two English speaking guests at my job I could communicate with them more freely and I even got a compliment on my English. 

When I came to the US my English was far from fluent in my opinion but at least I could express myself.

I agree with Donna_Pedro regarding her comment on "marketable skills" but it was not my thought when I made my decision on international dating. I just did not want to feel silly and I would not like a third person's presence in my privet conversations.

How fluent am I now? I still make mistakes and have to consult a dictionary. I still have a lot to learn. I try my best. But I have no problem to run our business communicating with lawyers, doctors, different kind of experts, speak in front of an audience with confidence, even our rednecks we hire time to time to do the yard work got used to my accent and I don't have to much problem to understand them     

On my husband's request to teach him more Russian my answer was that OUR priority and benefit is me to speak a good English as we live in an English speaking country,  though  we both probably will need to learn Spanish soon.  We don't have any Russian TV channels and I never wanted to have it again for my better transition.  But we have matryoshkas, samovars and the Lomonosov porcelain tea sets to smooth my transition 

[Hughtheo]

A less steep learning curve if you consult the RWD Glossary (http://russianwomendiscussion.com/mwiki/index.php/RWD_Glossary) in our RWDpedia .

Egregio signore Sandro43! Molto bene. Distinti saluti.

[Hughtheo]

Do you want children? or would you be happy with just finding wife to enjoy life. If the latter do not look for women under the age of 40 and with no children under the age of 19-20.

Yes, I do want my own children. I know that at my age I should think very carefully about being a father, but I see my married friends and the happiness in their families. Women from the FSU seem to have a much stronger sense for family than Western good-time girls groomed for the Carrie Bradshaw lifestyle.

I know family is a lot of work and dedication but I really want my single days to be over. Just had enough of the dating malarkey and want to settle down now.

I take on board what others on this thread have said about the age difference. A gap of max. 15-20 years is reasonable, I guess.